Guild Wars 2

Disclaimer: By no means I’m pretending that Ventari healer is or will be Meta along this post outside of Deimos hand kiting. I wanted to make sure everyone understands we’re talking about an offmeta build to avoid “who cares its not meta lul” replies.

Hey there! So, I’ve been trying the new Kalla legend sometime this weekend. Shortbow and most skills are tied to a condition dps role that will probably be some mix of Jalis/Mallyx/Kalla with Corruption, Invocation and Renegade.

But I’ve also noticed that there’s a support line in the spec, so I tried using it with Ventari. Renegade:
*Adds a class-unique group buff that this build missed so much (Soulcleave’s summit, that i’ve heard is an appreciable group damage increase and you can time it to use it in phases that need a bit of burst damage)
*Keeps good cc (Darkrazor’s daring), protection application via All for one, help in and some healing from Wrought-iron will’s regeneration, Breakrazor’s bastion and life siphon from Soulcleave’s summit.
*If they buffed durations or reduced energy costs, could provide permalacrity with the help of Orders from above with Righteous Rebel.

If they wanted to buff healing renegade a bit further, they could change All for one so that a somewhat nerfed Razorclaw’s Rage uses allies’ condition damage and expertise but not affect yourself so that it turns to a group dps increase instead of a selfish skill and/or Soulcleave’s Summit life siphon for allies uses your healing power (I think it uses allies’ hp) so that works better as a group healing skill.

Healing renegade would benefit too of some kind of major condition damage and healing power, minor expertise and concentration gear to use Razorclaw’s Rage if there’s no change to it.

In my opinion, all these interactions bring healing renegade a little bit closer to druid in most bosses than using healing herald (at least from what I’ve tested this weekend), what makes me wonder which direction do devs want to give to Glint. Notice that this advantages don’t improve hand kiting role, that needs shield and Glint’s heal to be effective.

So, what’s your opinion? Do you think it would be worthier to use Kalla, or to stick to Glint?

Honestly, I was hoping for a Healing Renegade spec before the weekend. I thought it would give me another option other than Druid.

I still don’t think Ventari Tablet energy management nor the healpower scaling on Renegade is going to make raid groups take a Healing Renegade over a Condi Druid.

Perma-/Almost perma-alacrity would definitely give the spec a niche to maybe alleviate chrono tanks; however, until energy management on Rev is more fluid, or the buffs are longer on a Rev, people will stick to the chrono+condi druid healer meta.

I’d say it depends on your non-meta group composition.

Glint provides boon duration which is much more useful since they recently nerfed boon duration food. Also, the heal is great and on demand boons are always convenient (but less needed in raids, I guess?). The traits – from my point of view – are mediocre at best. The only noteworthy one for Ventari is Bolstered Fortification when spamming your #5 in Ventari (pairs nicely with Blinding Truths in Salvation). But you probably want to safe Energy for Alacrity.

Kalla has useful and unique buffs but I don’t like their drawbacks (stationary + killable). I see her strength in the F-skills – F3 can keep Alacrity up when not in Ventari – and the Fury-centered traits (Blood Fury, Endless Emnity and Brutal Momentum). Those basically buff any kind of damage (power + condi) and synergize very well with Invocation which is great for Ventari anyway. If you don’t care for Invocation you could also run a condi setup with Corruption + Mallyx to complement Ventari with Resistance.

So it’s actually like the devs said in the stream. Glint is more defensive support while Kalla provides offensive support. Neither of them innately support a healing build or Ventari.

Rexivus.3794:

Honestly, I was hoping for a Healing Renegade spec before the weekend. I thought it would give me another option other than Druid.

I still don’t think Ventari Tablet energy management nor the healpower scaling on Renegade is going to make raid groups take a Healing Renegade over a Condi Druid.

Perma-/Almost perma-alacrity would definitely give the spec a niche to maybe alleviate chrono tanks; however, until energy management on Rev is more fluid, or the buffs are longer on a Rev, people will stick to the chrono+condi druid healer meta.

I understand that it’s no match neither for heal druid nor condi druid in meta terms. However, my static lets me play it in some bosses where damage could be a problem to make smoother, slowlier tries.

Xaylin.1860:

I’d say it depends on your non-meta group composition.

Glint provides boon duration which is much more useful since they recently nerfed boon duration food. Also, the heal is great and on demand boons are always convenient (but less needed in raids, I guess?). The traits – from my point of view – are mediocre at best. The only noteworthy one for Ventari is Bolstered Fortification when spamming your #5 in Ventari (pairs nicely with Blinding Truths in Salvation). But you probably want to safe Energy for Alacrity.

Kalla has useful and unique buffs but I don’t like their drawbacks (stationary + killable). I see her strength in the F-skills – F3 can keep Alacrity up when not in Ventari – and the Fury-centered traits (Blood Fury, Endless Emnity and Brutal Momentum). Those basically buff any kind of damage (power + condi) and synergize very well with Invocation which is great for Ventari anyway. If you don’t care for Invocation you could also run a condi setup with Corruption + Mallyx to complement Ventari with Resistance.

So it’s actually like the devs said in the stream. Glint is more defensive support while Kalla provides offensive support. Neither of them innately support a healing build or Ventari.

The problem is that raid healers are chosen not for their ability to heal (both tempest and revenant heal better than druid anyway) but for their offensive support skills. That makes Glint quite underwhelming, since chronomancers today don’t gear taking into account Facet of Nature. It’ll still be used in hand-kiting Deimos because of blocks and Glint’s heal, but those advantages don’t make Ventari/Glint a better healer in, lets say, VG than Ventari/Kalla. If they tuned cooldowns, energy costs and durations, they could craft a build that provides permalacrity, heals and offers some offensive support that could partner with a firebrand to provide quickness and aegis.

Anyone would have thought that Glint would remain BiS as a secondary legend for a healing role until a healing spec, but alacrity in both Orders from above and Natural Harmony and the whole support line make me think that is intentional. So this makes me wonder if they’re planning on revamping Glint to make it more power-friendly.

I think Renegade could work, but I don’t see it replacing glint in pve. To me healer rev plays like this: Grants boons, and switch to ventari to heal allies, when things stabilize back to boons. But the heal on renegade means when you swap you’ll have a powerful ally heal available outside of ventari. But otherwise, I don’t see why you would swap, since throughput is still higher in ventari. So I don’t see renegade healer working for pve.

Loboling.5293:

I think Renegade could work, but I don’t see it replacing glint in pve. To me healer rev plays like this: Grants boons, and switch to ventari to heal allies, when things stabilize back to boons. But the heal on renegade means when you swap you’ll have a powerful ally heal available outside of ventari. But otherwise, I don’t see why you would swap, since throughput is still higher in ventari. So I don’t see renegade healer working for pve.

The most problematic disadvantage about healing revenant has always been, imo, the lack of offensive support in the form of unique buffs. These boons that you provide via Glint are provided by the party easily or the change to Kalla doesn’t affect the most important ones:
- Regeneration gets overwritten by chronomancer’s with (usually) less healing power, and Soulcleave’s Summit (even when the target has no healing power) seems as powerful as your regeneration (maybe there’s some difference in pvp with regeneration?). Making the life siphon use your healing power and take into account outgoing healing modifiers would be a great change tho.
- fury shouldn’t be a problem if you take invocation or if you have a warrior with For great justice.
- you can still keep protection just by summoning spirits.

And while you keep the most important boons, you add better access to alacrity, Soulcleave’s Summit and, potentially with some trait changes that I proposed, group Razorclaw’s Rage.

I admit that keeping tha party healed while you’re in Kalla is more difficult (Soulcleave’s Summit, Breakrazor’s Bastion and/or changing to staff for Renewing Wave) but you shouldn’t be leaving Ventari in any case if you think a damage spike is coming.

The biggest issue is your heal does not benefit from outgoing healing effectiveness buffs for some reason, and until that gets fixed, you’re better off sticking with ventari

You still can’t provide perma alacrity as the heal with it costs too much and the cooldown of Orders from above limits you even with reduced energy costs. Glint will be most likely still better as you can give perma protection. The protection from heal skills procs everytime you move the tablet.

Vennyhedgie.5369:

The biggest issue is your heal does not benefit from outgoing healing effectiveness buffs for some reason, and until that gets fixed, you’re better off sticking with ventari

Sure, thats something they should be changing asap. It’s a group heal, so the group should enjoy your outgoing healing modifiers. And you’re always taking Ventari, obviously. Kalla is just a secondary legend.

Miellyn.6847:

You still can’t provide perma alacrity as the heal with it costs too much and the cooldown of Orders from above limits you even with reduced energy costs. Glint will be most likely still better as you can give perma protection. The protection from heal skills procs everytime you move the tablet.

Of course, right now with these immense energy costs it’s quite difficult to provide permalacrity. But the possibility is still there with some adjustments. Why introduce alacrity to Ventari AND Kalla if that’s not the reason? (For aesthetics reasons they could change the effect of alacrity with revenant to some class characteristic color, like light grey, or to legends characteristic colors, light green and dark orange.)

All for one has no ICD, so you just need to invoke 2 spirits (or Soulcleave twice) to have protection while waiting for Ventari, even with no boon duration. Chronos could take that protection and provide it to the group with their quickness rotations. Otherwise, yes, some protection is lost.

Akeno.4962:

Vennyhedgie.5369:

The biggest issue is your heal does not benefit from outgoing healing effectiveness buffs for some reason, and until that gets fixed, you’re better off sticking with ventari

Sure, thats something they should be changing asap. It’s a group heal, so the group should enjoy your outgoing healing modifiers. And you’re always taking Ventari, obviously. Kalla is just a secondary legend.

Miellyn.6847:

You still can’t provide perma alacrity as the heal with it costs too much and the cooldown of Orders from above limits you even with reduced energy costs. Glint will be most likely still better as you can give perma protection. The protection from heal skills procs everytime you move the tablet.

Of course, right now with these immense energy costs it’s quite difficult to provide permalacrity. But the possibility is still there with some adjustments. Why introduce alacrity to Ventari AND Kalla if that’s not the reason? (For aesthetics reasons they could change the effect of alacrity with revenant to some class characteristic color, like light grey, or to legends characteristic colors, light green and dark orange.)

All for one has no ICD, so you just need to invoke 2 spirits (or Soulcleave twice) to have protection while waiting for Ventari, even with no boon duration. Chronos could take that protection and provide it to the group with their quickness rotations. Otherwise, yes, some protection is lost.

You essentially have perma alacrity, I’ve managed to get it to only have like a 1 or 2 second gap every 30 seconds while energy refilled a bit. Granted you can only auto attack to do this, but let’s be honest that’s most of what you do on rev anyway

Vennyhedgie.5369:

You essentially have perma alacrity, I’ve managed to get it to only have like a 1 or 2 second gap every 30 seconds while energy refilled a bit. Granted you can only auto attack to do this, but let’s be honest that’s most of what you do on rev anyway

True, but you can’t take advantage of Soulcleave’s Summit, the only reason to leave Ventari for a party dps increase, right?

ventari has absurd burst healing. So maybe in another raid wing we may see a desire for that sort of thing? who knows.

Pertaining to your topic, I would say glint makes for better burst healing thanks to the heal on shield. But also applies pretty darn good defensive and utility buffs, such as perma swiftness regen ticks that nears elementalist levels of passive healing (highest I personally hit was just shy of 1k a tick) thanks to bonkers healing mods.
But kalla would most definitely add more dps to the group. So I’d say its a tradeoff rather than “this is strictly better”

Honestly, due to how beautiful this game is, you could play both and swap as needed. Due to them both being healing specs, you likely wouldn’t even need to swap weapons out much.

I think healing renegade will be a thing, if used smart.
He can be a druid replacement, but not the kind you expect.

Rather then being a healer, the renegade can be dps + offhealing via elite.
This will allow someone else then druid, someone with real personal damage to take the main healer spot. Thinking scourge, or dps+heal guardian.

Everyone is hellbent on druid damage buffs, but let’s not forget druid himself is rock bottom dps. These things are there to compensate for his own wet noodle damage.
Kick druid out, put someone with real personal damage in his place and you may find out druid is not that meta anymore. With renegade’s support a dps healer can be a thing.

The offhealer + condi damage + boonrip role will be taken by Scourges.
The damage output of that elite spec is probably way higher, not to mention the support, that with barriers is kinda unique. Sand shades are also easier to manage compared to the tablet.

That elite spec is simply synergic with the core profession, so you can proceed a lot of stuff. Renegade is not. We have bleeding instead of torment and no chill. Come on…

I wouldn’t bet on that. Firstly a lot of ppl here are heavily underestimating the power of condi renegade. Let’s revind a bit to last balance patch.

Core condi rev. 30k+ condi damage. Now add 20% to that with traited kalla’s fervor. 36k condi damage easy. That’s already very solid condi damage.

Secondly barrier scourge’s dps will not be as high as you believe it to be. His condi traits and barrier traits tend to compete for same spot. Also shades aren’t free – they need life force. And life force generation on condi necro has never been good. Just check out necro forums where they say to go dagger on scourge, because LF generation.

Lastly barrier itself is not all it’s cranked up to be. Maximum value you can receive scales off your own vitality. Tanky guys can get beefy barrier, but squishies can’t count on huge barrier numbers (up to half of their max hp as i recall). But to even get there, necro would need healing power. So…know any stat sets with condi damage, expertise and healing power? I don’t.

Scourge can go condi + healing power, sure, but he won’t get any expertise then. A huge drop to his dps.

Meanwhile kalla elite works outta the box for renegade and the more they hit (and in raid setting they’re under quickness almost 24/7) the more they heal, no matter their max hp.

Not saing scourge will not be viable as off healer – but not to the point where renegade or herald will have no room to compete.

Scourge will just go full condi dude. It can still support fine with small barriers, boonrip, condi cleanse, condi conversion and so on, then basically output more condi dps than base Necromancer, A LOT more.

To me, comparing Scourge and Renegade is like comparing apples to pears.

Scourge is a very defensive support spec with tons of boon hate and the only one with access to significant group barrier (as far as I know) IF they use healing power. I’m sure the new raid bosses are designed with barrier in mind. But its barrier traits compete with its condi traits, and you can’t keep using LF to proc Dhuumfire with shade skills if you need it to provide barrier, so don’t expect the support scourge build to have great dps in comparison to the condi scourge build.

Renegade is an offensive support spec. It’s designed in a way that benefits power (extra ferocity), condi (extra condi damage, Razorclaw’s Rage) and support builds (extra alacrity, Soulcleave’s Summit).

There haven’t been any dps tests yet, so we don’t know who’s better between condi renegade vs condi scourge. But in the support aspect, scourge can’t provide permabarrier (I’m sure devs intend that), so it doesn’t compete with a healer in bosses where barrier is not needed or not that interesting.