Guild Wars 2

Now that the Revenant has weapon swapping, will weapon swap sigils still trigger on Legend swapping? Sorry if this has already been asked.

I take no one knows then. I would like an answer Anet, please.

that is actually a good quetion

Uden Reavstone.3426:

I take no one knows then. I would like an answer Anet, please.

Be patient. Everybody would like an answer from Anet for their questions, however they can’t be expected to answer all of them (otherwise the forums would be a full time job for them).

If I were to guess, the devs aren’t sure which direction they want to go. However, I’d bet that it will end up only procing on weapon swap and no longer proc on legend swap. The only way I see it not being this way is if there is some sort of technical difficulty since they’ve already built them to proc on legend swap.

They already had a build ready with weaponswap, and were discussing it internally. The general complains just helped them decide. That’s what Roy said at least.

I’m pretty sure however that the previous activation with legend swap was manually added to makes those sigils usable by Revenants.
Probably they’ll only activate with normal weaponswap in the next iteration.

Not a big deal if they activate with both however. They still have icd.

They can work on both, really, since the sigils themselves have a 9s CD they are balanced around. Even with Rev swapping both weapons and legends, they would not be able to swap any faster than a Warrior with Fast Hands on average.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

They can work on both, really, since the sigils themselves have a 9s CD they are balanced around. Even with Rev swapping both weapons and legends, they would not be able to swap any faster than a Warrior with Fast Hands on average.

Isn’t it possible to have both weapons have something like the Sigil of Battle and then Legend Swap>Weapon Swap for the most benefit (4 stacks of might in ~1 second)? I don’t think warrior can do it that fast, plus they will have to switch to a weapon they necessarily don’t want to use, whereas the Revenant CAN legend swap and still be using the same weapon. Personally I hope we’ll be able to do that but it may be broken.

Main reason why I don’t think it’s going to work like that.
Also if you have 2 set of weapons and you swap legend, wich sigils are going to be triggered? The ones from the currently equipped weapon, or the ones from the swappable weapon?

Imo only weaponswap will trigger.

Kidel.2057:

Also if you have 2 set of weapons and you swap legend, wich sigils are going to be triggered? The ones from the currently equipped weapon, or the ones from the swappable weapon?

Same way it worked in the first beta. Legend Swap affected the sigil on the weapon currently equipped. If you swapped weapons, the sigil for the next set of weapons would trigger.

MercenaryNote.8506:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

They can work on both, really, since the sigils themselves have a 9s CD they are balanced around. Even with Rev swapping both weapons and legends, they would not be able to swap any faster than a Warrior with Fast Hands on average.

Isn’t it possible to have both weapons have something like the Sigil of Battle and then Legend Swap>Weapon Swap for the most benefit (4 stacks of might in ~1 second)? I don’t think warrior can do it that fast, plus they will have to switch to a weapon they necessarily don’t want to use, whereas the Revenant CAN legend swap and still be using the same weapon. Personally I hope we’ll be able to do that but it may be broken.

No, you cannot. As soon as you swapped weapons, the Sigil of Battle would proc, then go on CD for 9s.

That also means that you can take advantage of different on-swap sigils for your separate weapon sets, assuming you want to use two weapon sets with each Legend. ie You can have Battle on your OH sword and Leeching on your OH axe and take advantage of them more so than if you had the same sigil on each, since you can swap to each twice in the same time that normal weapon swapping can take place. But since they have the 9s CD, you cannot abuse the swapping by having it actually trigger more often. It is no more swaps than a Warrior with Fast Hands has and they can only use swap sigils in this way.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

MercenaryNote.8506:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

They can work on both, really, since the sigils themselves have a 9s CD they are balanced around. Even with Rev swapping both weapons and legends, they would not be able to swap any faster than a Warrior with Fast Hands on average.

Isn’t it possible to have both weapons have something like the Sigil of Battle and then Legend Swap>Weapon Swap for the most benefit (4 stacks of might in ~1 second)? I don’t think warrior can do it that fast, plus they will have to switch to a weapon they necessarily don’t want to use, whereas the Revenant CAN legend swap and still be using the same weapon. Personally I hope we’ll be able to do that but it may be broken.

No, you cannot. As soon as you swapped weapons, the Sigil of Battle would proc, then go on CD for 9s.

That also means that you can take advantage of different on-swap sigils for your separate weapon sets, assuming you want to use two weapon sets with each Legend. ie You can have Battle on your OH sword and Leeching on your OH axe and take advantage of them more so than if you had the same sigil on each, since you can swap to each twice in the same time that normal weapon swapping can take place. But since they have the 9s CD, you cannot abuse the swapping by having it actually trigger more often. It is no more swaps than a Warrior with Fast Hands has and they can only use swap sigils in this way.

So if I had a sigil of battle on my sword(set 1) and on my staff(set 2), they share a CD? Wow, today I learned.

Yup, but the cool thing about getting the proc on Legend swap as well, is you can still trigger the Battle off CD as well as a different on-swap sigil.
ie Sword-Force/Battle, Staff-Force/Renewal, Jalis, Shiro

start in sword/shiro
swap to jalis, get the battle proc.
swap weapons to get the renewal proc
after 9s
swap back to shiro, get the battle proc
swap back to sword get the renewal proc.

so you can utilise two different on-swap sigils the same amount as having the same on-swap sigil on both weapons. I hope they make Legend Swapping proc them.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

They can work on both, really, since the sigils themselves have a 9s CD they are balanced around. Even with Rev swapping both weapons and legends, they would not be able to swap any faster than a Warrior with Fast Hands on average.

Ah ! A Warrior speed to proc weapon swap sigils has nothing on the Engineer ability to do it every second !

stof.9341:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

They can work on both, really, since the sigils themselves have a 9s CD they are balanced around. Even with Rev swapping both weapons and legends, they would not be able to swap any faster than a Warrior with Fast Hands on average.

Ah ! A Warrior speed to proc weapon swap sigils has nothing on the Engineer ability to do it every second !

Ele too.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

stof.9341:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

They can work on both, really, since the sigils themselves have a 9s CD they are balanced around. Even with Rev swapping both weapons and legends, they would not be able to swap any faster than a Warrior with Fast Hands on average.

Ah ! A Warrior speed to proc weapon swap sigils has nothing on the Engineer ability to do it every second !

Ele too.

But they only get one set of weapon swap sigils :/

stof.9341:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

They can work on both, really, since the sigils themselves have a 9s CD they are balanced around. Even with Rev swapping both weapons and legends, they would not be able to swap any faster than a Warrior with Fast Hands on average.

Ah ! A Warrior speed to proc weapon swap sigils has nothing on the Engineer ability to do it every second !

That’s not how it works. Fast hands lets you cycle through two different sets of Swap sigils every 10 seconds, effectively having 4 swap sigils. They still have their own cooldowns, so Engi/Ele are still gates by swap cooldowns and only 1 set of sigils.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Uden Reavstone.3426:

Now that the Revenant has weapon swapping, will weapon swap sigils still trigger on Legend swapping? Sorry if this has already been asked.

On swap sigils will trigger both from weapon swap and invoking a legend for the next iteration you all get to play. It’ll be a thing we have to see how it plays out and address whether it stays or goes away after the feedback we get.

Awesome news. I imagine that if one of them goes, it will be the legend-swap proc?

I like that both swaps work with those sigils. It gives revenants that subtle advantage that elementalists and engineers already benefit from, but I don’t think it’s a particularly bad thing.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Uden Reavstone.3426:

Now that the Revenant has weapon swapping, will weapon swap sigils still trigger on Legend swapping? Sorry if this has already been asked.

On swap sigils will trigger both from weapon swap and invoking a legend for the next iteration you all get to play. It’ll be a thing we have to see how it plays out and address whether it stays or goes away after the feedback we get.

Wow, that’s a huge bomb.
Double sigil cooldown. While it’s not too much in pve, this could be amazing in pvp.

Keeeeeeeeeeeeeeep ittttttttttttttttttt. I love the idea of being able to re-trigger your swap sigils while camping a weapon set!!!!!!!!!!

Sigil of Battle – Gain 2 stacksof Might for 20 seconds
Superior Sigil of Cleansing - Remove 1 Condition
Sigil of Doom - Inflict Poison for 6s on your next attack
Sigil of Energy - Gain 50% of your endurance
Sigil of Geomancy - Inflict Bleeding on nearby foes for 10s
Sigil of Hydromancy - Damage nearby foes and inflict Chilled for 2s
Superior Sigil of Intelligence - Your next 3 attacks have a 100% critical chance
Sigil of Leeching - Your next attack steals health
Sigil of Mischief – Launch 4 blinding snowballs at foes in front of you
Sigil of Renewal - Heal allies within 360 range

Start with weapon > swap legend > 2 procs > swap weapon > 2 more procs > swap weapon again after 7s > repeat

This way actually is not more frequent than on the other classes.
BUT
You can camp a weapon and keep triggering effects without swapping.

With Sigil of Cleansing + trait you can basically clear 2 conditions on legenswap (or still 1 if you don’t get that trait, giving room to Fury on healing skill)

Is it two separate CDs or that you can use the swap from either Weapon or Legend and the CD is shared by both? For example, you swap Weapons, get the 9 second cooldown and immediately swap Legends, but you’re still in the 9 second CD, not getting the effect because it was already in CD.

Roy didn’t say there would be separate cooldowns, just that the both swaps could trigger the effect.

Honestly, I hope it is 2 separate CDs. That’d be awesome!

The sigil type CDs are universal for sigils of that type. That means you can only trigger Sigil of Battle, for instance, once every 9 seconds regardless of whether that comes from a legend swap or a weapon swap.

Rising Dusk.2408:

The sigil type CDs are universal for sigils of that type. That means you can only trigger Sigil of Battle, for instance, once every 9 seconds regardless of whether that comes from a legend swap or a weapon swap.

That’s what I thought too.

Sigil of Battle – Gain 2 stacksof Might for 20 seconds
2 Might on legend swap if you have the “of Battle” weapon equipped.

Superior Sigil of Cleansing - Remove 1 Condition
Condi cleanse on legend swap if you have the “of Battle” weapon equipped.

Sigil of Energy - Gain 50% of your endurance
Superior Sigil of Intelligence - Your next 3 attacks have a 100% critical chance
Those are all pretty good. Intelligence one will be amazing in pvp or with builds without much precision.
Energy is awesome for damage mitigation, basically gaining 1 extra dodge on legendswap.

You can however trigger 4 sigils at once in this way, but chances are it won’t be game breaking, and changing it will be less fun than leaving it. Adds a bit of bonus to playing your cards right, imo.

Anyways here’s how:

Swap to a weapon set. That puts the sigils on a 9 second CD (2).

After those 9 seconds are up, 1 second left until you can weapon swap, change legends, triggering your current weapon sigils again, then change weapons which triggers the second set of sigils (all must be unique!).

It works very similarly to how Fast Hands sigil dancing works, except in this case you have to always swap Legend → Weapon on cooldown to get that benefit. This isn’t very practical though, so I wouldn’t suggest forcing this as a rotation.

ronpierce.2760:

You can however trigger 4 sigils at once in this way, but chances are it won’t be game breaking, and changing it will be less fun than leaving it. Adds a bit of bonus to playing your cards right, imo.

Anyways here’s how:

Swap to a weapon set. That puts the sigils on a 9 second CD (2).

After those 9 seconds are up, 1 second left until you can weapon swap, change legends, triggering your current weapon sigils again, then change weapons which triggers the second set of sigils (all must be unique!).

It works very similarly to how Fast Hands sigil dancing works, except in this case you have to always swap Legend -> Weapon on cooldown to get that benefit. This isn’t very practical though, so I wouldn’t suggest forcing this as a rotation.

Or just swap legends, then swap weapons immediately. That’d put both your weapon and legend swap on CD though…

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

ronpierce.2760:

You can however trigger 4 sigils at once in this way, but chances are it won’t be game breaking, and changing it will be less fun than leaving it. Adds a bit of bonus to playing your cards right, imo.

Anyways here’s how:

Swap to a weapon set. That puts the sigils on a 9 second CD (2).

After those 9 seconds are up, 1 second left until you can weapon swap, change legends, triggering your current weapon sigils again, then change weapons which triggers the second set of sigils (all must be unique!).

It works very similarly to how Fast Hands sigil dancing works, except in this case you have to always swap Legend -> Weapon on cooldown to get that benefit. This isn’t very practical though, so I wouldn’t suggest forcing this as a rotation.

Or just swap legends, then swap weapons immediately. That’d put both your weapon and legend swap on CD though…

Yeah, any legend swap → weapon swap after 10 seconds with a given set will trigger this. But yeah, you’re forcing 2 CDs at once, and like I said, it’s just not a practical means of handling your swaps for such a small boost. I DO however, suggest, like warriors, to use 4 unique sigils, as you will get the biggest bang for your buck over the course of time if you do.

ronpierce.2760:

You can however trigger 4 sigils at once in this way, but chances are it won’t be game breaking, and changing it will be less fun than leaving it. Adds a bit of bonus to playing your cards right, imo.

Anyways here’s how:

Swap to a weapon set. That puts the sigils on a 9 second CD (2).

After those 9 seconds are up, 1 second left until you can weapon swap, change legends, triggering your current weapon sigils again, then change weapons which triggers the second set of sigils (all must be unique!).

It works very similarly to how Fast Hands sigil dancing works, except in this case you have to always swap Legend -> Weapon on cooldown to get that benefit. This isn’t very practical though, so I wouldn’t suggest forcing this as a rotation.

It may not be gamebreaking. The throughput is still the same because of internal cooldown.
However the cool think is that you can trigger effects without swapping weapon, so if you’re attacking ranged or with sword you can trigger more things with legendswap, without being forced to change range or attack type.

Again, I don’t think that for pve this is going to be better then permanent bonuses, but for pvp it’s a lot interesting.

Also double condi cleanse on swap can be useful for tank builds

I like it, I can proc my energy sigil and not have to switch up my playstyle!

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Uden Reavstone.3426:

Now that the Revenant has weapon swapping, will weapon swap sigils still trigger on Legend swapping? Sorry if this has already been asked.

On swap sigils will trigger both from weapon swap and invoking a legend for the next iteration you all get to play. It’ll be a thing we have to see how it plays out and address whether it stays or goes away after the feedback we get.

Like that’s not gonna break in about 3 seconds in the hands of min/maxers…

There is zero reason for the new golden child to be able to double-tap those effects.

Nike.2631:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Uden Reavstone.3426:

Now that the Revenant has weapon swapping, will weapon swap sigils still trigger on Legend swapping? Sorry if this has already been asked.

On swap sigils will trigger both from weapon swap and invoking a legend for the next iteration you all get to play. It’ll be a thing we have to see how it plays out and address whether it stays or goes away after the feedback we get.

Like that’s not gonna break in about 3 seconds in the hands of min/maxers…

There is zero reason for the new golden child to be able to double-tap those effects.

Warriors get it in a practical way. For Revenants, going far out of your way to “force” this will only scree you over. You can’t be that lenient with your swaps. Warrior can do this because a standard weapon swap frequently is very beneficial for them. Min/Maxing this is not a practical goal.

How are you okay with Warriors who have a 100% success rate of taking advantage of double sigils???

TBH, i don’t like it.

Let’s look at other classes, like ranger, guardian, they simply swap and they know the sigils will be off CD, and just use the weapon for the sigils or procs they want.

Warrior, still the same thing. just use the weapon for the sigils or procs they want.

Ele and Engi, they only have one set of sigils, so you only need to time the cooldowns and you will know when it’s ready and have it’s use..

But with revenant procing the sigils with both, i feel like it’s gonna be messy and forced random procs and wasted procs will be all over the place.

You can camp one weapon set and just switch legends to force the procs of the weapon sigils.

What’s not to like?

lighter.2708:

TBH, i don’t like it.

Let’s look at other classes, like ranger, guardian, they simply swap and they know the sigils will be off CD, and just use the weapon for the sigils or procs they want.

Warrior, still the same thing. just use the weapon for the sigils or procs they want.

Ele and Engi, they only have one set of sigils, so you only need to time the cooldowns and you will know when it’s ready and have it’s use..

But with revenant procing the sigils with both, i feel like it’s gonna be messy and forced random procs and wasted procs will be all over the place.

It won’t be messy. Your off-set will always be ready whenever you want to swap weapons since your legend will never interfere with that.

The only thing you need to know is when your weapon swap is <1 second left on cooldown,‘you can use your Legend swap for your current weapon’s sigils again. Then every time your legend is up again while you remain in that set, it’ll reset your sigils. It’s actually very intuitive if you think about what’s actually going on. Your other set will always be ready when you swap to it. It’s amazing if you ask me.

i’m not sure how the balancing progress works, but i’m now really interested to see how the revenant would be balanced to viable with only one weapon set.

simply because i don’t like any other weapon set and i can not see the synergy between weapons either, specially the hammer one, but we will see after we play with the buff.
and weapon sets are bind to legends and legends are bind to play style and stats (condi, zerker, tank, healer).

was weapon swap already determined inside the balance team? or did they have other solution which may be better. because it was clearly underpowered.

what if we don’t get weapon swap, instead, we get triple legend…

lighter.2708:

i’m not sure how the balancing progress works, but i’m now really interested to see how the revenant would be balanced to viable with only one weapon set.

simply because i don’t like any other weapon set and i can not see the synergy between weapons either, specially the hammer one, but we will see after we play with the buff.
and weapon sets are bind to legends and legends are bind to play style and stats (condi, zerker, tank, healer).

was weapon swap already determined inside the balance team? or did they have other solution which may be better. because it was clearly underpowered.

what if we don’t get weapon swap, instead, we get triple legend…

They already said weapon swap was what we’re getting, this isn’t a guess. And it was already a work in progress before it ever happened.

As for weapons, there is plenty of synergy. Only issue with hammer is that several of its skills (especially Drop the Hammer) cast entirely too slow to be useful.

Other than that, we’re lacking a distinct ranged Condition weapon, which seems to be an issue that spawned from the addition of weapon swap. Sure hope they touch on this sooner rather than later, but it’s pretty obvious they’re incredibly busy, so maybe this will be their seconds Elite Spec.

Stop treating legend swap like attunement. Having 3 legends equipped would still require weaponswap.

Thing is that, i don’t see the synergy within the limited number of weapons.
If you go condition, you have mace/axe, then what, what will be your secondary set?
and hammer is the most boring ranged weapon i’ve ever played and has even greater telegraphed skills then warrior hammer..i feel like even warrior rifle will be more viable then hammer, until i’m proved other wise in game.

Well like I said… They are certainly missing a ranged condition weapon, which is a shame, but I’m pretty sure that happened because the original designed didn’t require a ranged condition weapon. That’s less the case now.

we’ll see how they handle it, yes it’s an issue. But other than Ranged condition, there’s really no “holes”. Not really their fault if you don’t like Hammer. I adore hammer other than the cast times on hammer 3, 4 and 5. Skill wise, it’s pretty good.

Weapons was simply not designed with weapon swap in mind.. If you pick up s/s you dont really want anything else other than maybe..staff for some sustain via block and condi cleanse and that “burst” move on 5. If you go condi you dont have secondary set to apply conditions..

Hammer is too slow to make it into pvp, it damage is also backloaded into one skill which require you to stay as far as possible which goes against desing of conquest..lb ranger suffer from the same issue on auto. Hammer will be great on pve world events and wvw tho.

Its pretty much all about s/s and staff and possibly sword/shield now.

btw. Ron, i found your signature to be funny. I think i should make similiar one but with EU instead.

Aren’t you forgetting mace with fire field and blast?

ronpierce.2760:

Well like I said… They are certainly missing a ranged condition weapon, which is a shame, but I’m pretty sure that happened because the original designed didn’t require a ranged condition weapon. That’s less the case now.

we’ll see how they handle it, yes it’s an issue. But other than Ranged condition, there’s really no “holes”. Not really their fault if you don’t like Hammer. I adore hammer other than the cast times on hammer 3, 4 and 5. Skill wise, it’s pretty good.

If they are lead to making a new ranged condition weapon, i would rather see them remove weapon swap and make the class viable with other solutions.
The weapons are simply not meant together, and the hammer is extremely weak too.
simple damage doesnt make a good ranged weapon (except in PvE), we all know that from warrior rifle. and even warrior rifle is better then hammer by looking at the skill facts..if you look at other most used PvP range weapons, you would understand what makes a good range weapon.

Revenant hammer would be perfectly fine as a ranged weapon if 3, 4 and 5 cast times were shorter (significantly shorter in the case of Hammer 5).

ronpierce.2760:

Revenant hammer would be perfectly fine as a ranged weapon if 3, 4 and 5 cast times were shorter (significantly shorter in the case of Hammer 5).

Doesnt matter what would be if casttimes were shorter. Roy already decided to not reduce casttimes on hammer, so its going to stay this way. Also that weapon cannot really work in spvp as you lose damage by standing on a point. Whole damage backloaded into one skill that depends on range..gg wp

lighter.2708:

Thing is that, i don’t see the synergy within the limited number of weapons.
If you go condition, you have mace/axe, then what, what will be your secondary set?
and hammer is the most boring ranged weapon i’ve ever played and has even greater telegraphed skills then warrior hammer..i feel like even warrior rifle will be more viable then hammer, until i’m proved other wise in game.

Sword is amazing with condi because you get tons of vulnerability, that now increases condi damage.

Kidel.2057:

lighter.2708:

Thing is that, i don’t see the synergy within the limited number of weapons.
If you go condition, you have mace/axe, then what, what will be your secondary set?
and hammer is the most boring ranged weapon i’ve ever played and has even greater telegraphed skills then warrior hammer..i feel like even warrior rifle will be more viable then hammer, until i’m proved other wise in game.

Sword is amazing with condi because you get tons of vulnerability, that now increases condi damage.

Increase damage of what? Conditions revenant applies doesnt last long enough to make any use of sword vul..

That’s a mallyx problem