condition dmg reduction
So your suggestion is we use Right of the Great Dwarf (5s)(50 energy cost) with Versed in Stone then start channeling Vengeful Hammers (-7 energy degen putting us at -2) to manage conditions?
I think you fail to understand the problem here.
Most condition classes are balanced around the idea in PvP that other classes have access to the ability cleanse themselves of conditions. This lets them overstack a large number of condition stacks. We have it ourselves in Mallyx and have tremendous ability to pump out Torment stacks so that even if a bunch get cleansed we can just generate another batch. This way when you run into Mr Elementalist with his 5 cleanses you aren’t wholly negated long as you keep the condition pressure up. So this means spending 50 energy for 5 seconds of -50% condition damage while channeling a skill further reducing condi damage but putting us at -2 degen isn’t sustainable in the face of the amount of condition pressure we’re going to face.
Revenant also has Condition management…but in Ventari. We can cleanse 3 conditions every few seconds around the Tablet. Unfortunately since PvP/WvW is constantly on the move and ever shifting we can’t really afford to waste time microing a tablet, applying damage pressure ourselves, and firing off cleanses. So the majority of the condition cleansing/healing we could do just isn’t really functional in the environment we need it the most in.
Since Ventari isn’t realistic in those competitive settings, most Revenant players have shifted to Mallyx in competitive settings. Mallyx will give us Resistance boon which in turn will let us ignore the conditions that are actually applied to us. That gives us an alternative way of dealing with Conditions as a class and it’s actually worked quite well up until recently. Recently we started seeing more and more new specializations get access to heavy Boon Strip (specifically the Scourge and Spellbreaker). This means having resistance to manage conditions is less of a working solution since we’re no longer reliably able to keep that going.
Having to rely on Mallyx for condition management, which only has access to Resistance in the first place as some sort of old throwback to the original design of the Revenant gathering conditions then spreading them out to opponents, is poor. The ideal solution would be for ANet to create a Grandmaster Trait in Ventari where you “become” the Tablet instead and things instead pulse around you (few other tweaks would be neeeded). This would allow us to give up one of our trait lines in favor of Salvation and make Ventari usable in competitive settings as a cleanse/healing option.
Temporary condition damage reduction doesn’t work in PvP… Especially the new Kalla heal aura that requires you to stand in one spot.
This is because you’ll just keep getting bombed with stacks and stacks of conditions and then when it ends, you’re instantly dead. This is why cleanse is so much more of a real answer—it resets the stacks to zero rather than temporarily reducing the damage while the stacks intensity continue to grow.
The reason Mallyx’s resistance (which you could argue is sort of the same thing since it doesn’t provide cleanse) works to a point, is because you don’t have to sacrifice so much of your offensive power building into it like you do with traited RoTGD. So you can actually kill the person during that window of damage reduction. Also, you can chain the resistance for much longer if you’re not spamming all your energy on BE or UYA if you have to go full bunker or something.
Temporary condition damage reduction doesn’t work in PvP… Especially the new Kalla heal aura that requires you to stand in one spot.
This is because you’ll just keep getting bombed with stacks and stacks of conditions and then when it ends, you’re instantly dead. This is why cleanse is so much more of a real answer—it resets the stacks to zero rather than temporarily reducing the damage while the stacks intensity continue to grow.
The reason Mallyx’s resistance (which you could argue is sort of the same thing since it doesn’t provide cleanse) works to a point, is because you don’t have to sacrifice so much of your offensive power building into it like you do with traited RoTGD. So you can actually kill the person during that window of damage reduction. Also, you can chain the resistance for much longer if you’re not spamming all your energy on BE or UYA if you have to go full bunker or something.
Before the demo went live, I would have disagreed with you. Having tried maxing out -condi with melandru, RoTGD, Breakrazor’s Bastion, and Vengeful hammer, I have to change my mind. It’s useless. Using Breakrazor’s Bastion is basically inviting a Scourge to free cast Shades and marks on/around the circle. Meanwhile the pulse healing is slightly better than regeneration. You’re put in an awkward situation where if you move out, you lose the reduction(which is barely noticeable even when stacked), or you stand there and eat everything. Not to mention the summon can be CC’d/feared and stops working altogether.
I’m actually somewhat worried that rev will be pushed out altogether during this next spvp meta. Power herald was already painfully weak to conditions. You simply had to force them to use their staff cleansing combo and then a stack of 3 or 4 burns could probably kill them. As for condi rev, its resistance will be corrupted into chill and otherwise ripped meaning they are essentially fodder. I am sure in high tier there are players who are skilled enough to get around these weaknesses (namely by relying on teammates to clear condis for them), but for the average gw2 player the class will probably not be viable.
Random condi management buffs that probably won’t ever be implemented since Rev’s core weakness is that it can’t do much against condis. They’re probably overpowered in any case.
Cleansing Channel (Invocation Adept 2) removes 1 2 or 3 condition depending on energy threshold (0 -25 – 50)
Renewing Wave (staff 4) Reduce the Cast time from 1 second to instant or 1/2 second.
Demonic Defiance: When you use a legendary demon stance skill gain 2 seconds of resistance. Gain an additional 1 second of resistance per condition on you.
Embrace the Darkness (Mallyx elite) While channeling Embrace the Darkness condition damage is reduced by 50 – 75%.
Crystal Hibernation (Shield 5) Remove 1 condition per pule (4 pulses = 4 conditions removed)
Legendary Centaur Stance: Natural Abundance: Additional functionality: When you use a Legendary Centaur Skill, remove 1 condition from self (icd 5 seconds).
Versed In Stone: Changed functionality – Using Right of the Great Dwarf removes 3 conditions. This skill no longer reduces damage on incoming conditions. (condition damage reduction for conditions made baseline or removed all together)
As for condi rev, its resistance will be corrupted into chill and otherwise ripped meaning they are essentially fodder. I am sure in high tier there are players who are skilled enough to get around these weaknesses (namely by relying on teammates to clear condis for them), but for the average gw2 player the class will probably not be viable.
Sadly I think this is going to be the case as Scourge/Spellbreaker (added onto the recent sigil rework) will make trying to use resistance—even with cover boons—an exercise in futility… And before you say, well don’t fight them then, condi herald’s whole strength is in team fights, and pretty much every game’s going to have a breaker and/or scourge in it…
I mean, Power Rev/Herald (Prolly Power Kalla too for some of the traits) will probably still be there for ganking/decapping… But I think it’ll be a lot less effective when joining the group fight as boons are going to not just be weaker, but be more of a liability in certain cases. Add to that a lot more viable condi specs like soul beast, holosmith, weaver, and mirage’s crazy condi output, and it’s going to be pretty rough playing our cleanseless class.
(edited by narcx.3570)
Crystal Hibernation (Shield 5) Remove 1 condition per pule (4 pulses = 4 conditions removed)
Versed In Stone: Changed functionality – Using Right of the Great Dwarf removes 3 conditions. This skill no longer reduces damage on incoming conditions. (condition damage reduction for conditions made baseline or removed all together)
I very much second this. Shield5 is terribile after all the nerfs. Should not root at least, since the reason for rooting was the good healing that is not there anymore
this is why i suggest the combo cause our resistance will be easily corrupt or stolen or removed (necro, warrior, thief, sigils)
i am the first one who said we need more conditions handling and less nrg on weapon
the idea here is to use jallis skills 10,9,6 and switch to ventari to use 9 and staff cleanse
8 conditions removes while you took 75% less dmg
work nice versus burning guard, condi mesmer, condi rev. versus necro i had to leave the point but it took him longer to kill me.
its 1 trick pony as the conditions is flying so after 8 sec you will be bombed again if not disengage the fight as you wont have much nrg left
so we need more nrg management trait, or less cost on them.
ventari suggestion :
ventari elite – as it leaves you with no nrg should give back 2% nrg for each condition removed from allied only.
Serene Rejuvenation – no need for alacrity with ventari – change it to gain regeneration boon and while you have regeneration you gain back 1% nrg per sec
retribution line:
Versed in Stone – when used also cleanse 5 conditions. gives back 5% nrg per sec if you break out of stun
Determined Resolution – also regen 1% nrg per sec when you have stability
invocation line:
Shrouding Mists – also remove 1 condition above 50% nrg every 3 sec
corruption line
Pulsating Pestilence – transfer 3 conditions when invoking legend
Orders from Above – cost no nrg, recharge 40 sec. gives back 50% nrg and alacrity as mention.
Brutal Momentum – while you have vigor you regn 1% nrg per sec
(edited by messiah.1908)
consider taking jallis and using Righteous Rebel
using rotgd and vh give you all together 75% dmg reduction
using also rune of melandru or hoelbrak will give you 25%-20% reduction on durationso basically for 5 sec you will take if you taking 5k every sec condi dmg which means 25k total dmg it will be 5k dmg 80% less total
using is to bunker or sustain build can be nice
It sounds cool in theory, but in practice you will never have that much energy to be able to maintain. Rite of the Great Dwarf costs 50 energy which renders it unuseable. Then 7 energy to maintain hammers. Just to do this for 5 seconds you will need start off with 60 energy and not use any weapon skills but auto attack.
There is a reason why Jails is not used in PvP.
consider taking jallis and using Righteous Rebel
using rotgd and vh give you all together 75% dmg reduction
using also rune of melandru or hoelbrak will give you 25%-20% reduction on durationso basically for 5 sec you will take if you taking 5k every sec condi dmg which means 25k total dmg it will be 5k dmg 80% less total
using is to bunker or sustain build can be nice
It sounds cool in theory, but in practice you will never have that much energy to be able to maintain. Rite of the Great Dwarf costs 50 energy which renders it unuseable. Then 7 energy to maintain hammers. Just to do this for 5 seconds you will need start off with 60 energy and not use any weapon skills but auto attack.
There is a reason why Jails is not used in PvP.
it cost 40 nrg in pvp. i used it in the last demo will uploald demo of me looking for condi bombing . for testing issue. the dmg reduce almost by 80% and one time 50%.
sure its not condi cleanse but even now or we must have way way way better condi cleanse abilities as the condi spamm is too much.
ele condi, mesmer condi, warrior condi, rev condi, necro condi, ranger condi.
common …
it gives you time. i sue jallis as a support legend and mainly ventari.
but consider it in wvw while 1 is pure healer and other is dmg reduction role.
consider taking jallis and using Righteous Rebel
using rotgd and vh give you all together 75% dmg reduction
using also rune of melandru or hoelbrak will give you 25%-20% reduction on durationso basically for 5 sec you will take if you taking 5k every sec condi dmg which means 25k total dmg it will be 5k dmg 80% less total
using is to bunker or sustain build can be nice
It sounds cool in theory, but in practice you will never have that much energy to be able to maintain. Rite of the Great Dwarf costs 50 energy which renders it unuseable. Then 7 energy to maintain hammers. Just to do this for 5 seconds you will need start off with 60 energy and not use any weapon skills but auto attack.
There is a reason why Jails is not used in PvP.
it cost 40 nrg in pvp. i used it in the last demo will uploald demo of me looking for condi bombing . for testing issue. the dmg reduce almost by 80% and one time 50%.
sure its not condi cleanse but even now or we must have way way way better condi cleanse abilities as the condi spamm is too much.
ele condi, mesmer condi, warrior condi, rev condi, necro condi, ranger condi.
common …
it gives you time. i sue jallis as a support legend and mainly ventari.
but consider it in wvw while 1 is pure healer and other is dmg reduction role.
As others mentioned, if you want anti condi play Mallyx. Currently, no other option works. I do anticipate that scourge will be toned down, but power rev, outside of having a support squad, does not do well. You will be nuked with condis to death. The 5 sec relief from Jails will not save you and comes at a significant mobility cost (assuming you will drop shiro).
I honestly do not see power rev functioning at all with all the boon hate and condi damage coming in PoF. I am not sure Condi build will make it either due to boon hate.
It sounds cool in theory, but in practice you will never have that much energy to be able to maintain. Rite of the Great Dwarf costs 50 energy which renders it unuseable. Then 7 energy to maintain hammers. Just to do this for 5 seconds you will need start off with 60 energy and not use any weapon skills but auto attack.
There is a reason why Jails is not used in PvP.
The biggest reason being that once you see a Rev pop RotGD, you can effectively just ignore him since you know he’s not killing anybody with Jalis/Retribution.
The problem with Mallyx is that it won’t work anymore in PoF, since they have given tons of boonrip, condi cleanse and condi creep to all the specs except Revenant.