Guild Wars 2

Maugetarr.6823:

Fair enough. If they would unify D/D now, it might be considered more of a skilled setup. A longer evade maybe (since it has a relatively long windup unless you’re mashing it). I think the problem with the set is that you only use 1,2 and 5 in a direct damage setup and only 1 and 3 for condition damage. If it were unified in either direction, I think the stigma about it being a less skilled setup would go away as neither would spam anymore and have more abilities to choose from while adapting to the battle conditions.

Ideally I’d love to see all of the sets move away from a stealth spam requirement. Playing with minimal use of stealth is way more difficult, but is rewarding. At the moment, we’re forced into Sword builds for effective sans-stealth direct damage builds, nothing else provides effecive protection from knockdown spam of the hammer wielders.

Adaneshade.2409:

Jinks.2057:

Adaneshade.2409:

Maugetarr.6823:

S/D is also stealth spam, but its stealth>wait to interrupt + daze instead of dumping stealth into backstab quickly. I’d say almost all of our builds revolve around some measure of stealth spam (except maybe P/P and S/P) since we lack the defensive boons that others have to make up for being visible 100% of the time. We have dodging as a lot of people point out, but there are several classes with vigor on crit traits which lead to perma vigor, which is better in a drawn out fight. Feline grace is nice, but since its only a 15% return, overall it provides 1 more upfront dodge but is slower in the long run than perma vigor.

That style of play ceased to really work though when the duration on daze was nerfed. It is now way more effective to play the S/D set with a more holistic approach, using daze simply as an interrupt, since it can no longer function as a “stunlock”. Use of boon shears, immobilize, and unblockable attacks are now required.
S/D was easymode when you could perma-daze, but not so much now.

S/D daze wasn’t touched in PvE……aka WvW

Are we just talking sPvP here????

Yes. Well tPvP anyway, not really even considering hotjoins as the opponent sample is on average, weak to mediocre.

really tpvp…..really

I honestly do not know what to say to this one……. ……………………

Is it so odd that someone who primarily competes in tournament play would design builds focused around group synergy rather than “going cowboy”?

Adaneshade.2409:

Is it so odd that someone who primarily competes in tournament play would design builds focused around group synergy rather than “going cowboy”?

Mayhap u didn’t get the memo, but in tPvP you sticking with your thief is only hurting your team.

There is no role in tPvP a thief does that isn’t covered significantly better by another class.

Jinks.2057:

Adaneshade.2409:

Is it so odd that someone who primarily competes in tournament play would design builds focused around group synergy rather than “going cowboy”?

Mayhap u didn’t get the memo, but in tPvP you sticking with your team is only hurting your team.

There is no role in tPvP a thief does that isn’t covered significantly better by another class.

Don’t believe I ever mentioned zerging points. Simply said that I build in such a way that the benefits I provide to nearby allies cause us to be greater than the sum of our parts in combat.
No other classes can cause the amount of CC on the battlefield that a venom share thief can, not even close. Not only am I stunning, immobilizing, chilling, and poisoning foes but, all nearby allies are too. That CC prevents players from being able to fight back effectively.

Adaneshade.2409:

Jinks.2057:

Adaneshade.2409:

Is it so odd that someone who primarily competes in tournament play would design builds focused around group synergy rather than “going cowboy”?

Mayhap u didn’t get the memo, but in tPvP you sticking with your team is only hurting your team.

There is no role in tPvP a thief does that isn’t covered significantly better by another class.

Don’t believe I ever mentioned zerging points. Simply said that I build in such a way that the benefits I provide to nearby allies cause us to be greater than the sum of our parts in combat.
No other classes can cause the amount of CC on the battlefield that a venom share thief can, not even close. Not only am I stunning, immobilizing, chilling, and poisoning foes but, all nearby allies are too. That CC prevents players from being able to fight back effectively.

Engi

Maugetarr.6823:

Adaneshade.2409:

Jinks.2057:

Adaneshade.2409:

Is it so odd that someone who primarily competes in tournament play would design builds focused around group synergy rather than “going cowboy”?

Mayhap u didn’t get the memo, but in tPvP you sticking with your team is only hurting your team.

There is no role in tPvP a thief does that isn’t covered significantly better by another class.

Don’t believe I ever mentioned zerging points. Simply said that I build in such a way that the benefits I provide to nearby allies cause us to be greater than the sum of our parts in combat.
No other classes can cause the amount of CC on the battlefield that a venom share thief can, not even close. Not only am I stunning, immobilizing, chilling, and poisoning foes but, all nearby allies are too. That CC prevents players from being able to fight back effectively.

Engi

Engi’s can CC pretty well. The issue with them is twofold though,
- first (if they use a turret CC build) it’s random thanks to the RNG targeting of their turrets,
- secondly the majority of their CC is subject to reflection (both grenades and turrets) since it’s mostly projectile based

Venom share is more precise, causing the team members to apply CC to their target, giving them the advantage in a fight, in addition to being applied with whatever medium the ally is using to attack (ranged or melee). Also, engi’s can’t provide unblockable CC’s for clutch stuns against a guardian casting shelter or a warrior hunkering down in shield block.

Adaneshade.2409:

Jinks.2057:

Adaneshade.2409:

Is it so odd that someone who primarily competes in tournament play would design builds focused around group synergy rather than “going cowboy”?

Mayhap u didn’t get the memo, but in tPvP you sticking with your team is only hurting your team.

There is no role in tPvP a thief does that isn’t covered significantly better by another class.

Don’t believe I ever mentioned zerging points. Simply said that I build in such a way that the benefits I provide to nearby allies cause us to be greater than the sum of our parts in combat.
No other classes can cause the amount of CC on the battlefield that a venom share thief can, not even close. Not only am I stunning, immobilizing, chilling, and poisoning foes but, all nearby allies are too. That CC prevents players from being able to fight back effectively.

Who said anything about zerging points? I just said you are hurting your team by sticking with your thief.

You went and said venom share is teh best there is…….problem is you remove your thief and plug in one of the better classes to get better group utility + something your thief isn’t supplying.

Jinks.2057:

Adaneshade.2409:

Jinks.2057:

Adaneshade.2409:

Is it so odd that someone who primarily competes in tournament play would design builds focused around group synergy rather than “going cowboy”?

Mayhap u didn’t get the memo, but in tPvP you sticking with your team is only hurting your team.

There is no role in tPvP a thief does that isn’t covered significantly better by another class.

Don’t believe I ever mentioned zerging points. Simply said that I build in such a way that the benefits I provide to nearby allies cause us to be greater than the sum of our parts in combat.
No other classes can cause the amount of CC on the battlefield that a venom share thief can, not even close. Not only am I stunning, immobilizing, chilling, and poisoning foes but, all nearby allies are too. That CC prevents players from being able to fight back effectively.

Who said anything about zerging points? I just said you are hurting your team by sticking with your thief.

You went and said venom share is teh best there is…….problem is you remove your thief and plug in one of the better classes to get better group utility + something your thief isn’t supplying.

“By sticking with your team” sounded like you were speaking against zerging, my apologies. Since you mean “by sticking with your thief”…..The thief kind of has the monopoly on non-projectile CC, reliable damage to targets with invulnerability (lifesteal still procs through it and the trait causes your allies to lifesteal as well with the venoms you give) and spammable boon stripping.

Our team has managed to create an unusual synergistic relationship between all the members, to the point where they rely on those venoms to turn the tide of a fight as much as I rely on my dps assist to take down the targets I call out and lock down.
It’s working well for us so as they say, “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”.

You’re team adapted to the fact you want to play a weaker class…..they aren’t a better team for it.

Jinks.2057:

You’re team adapted to the fact you want to play a weaker class…..they aren’t a better team for it.

I’m sorry, that tournaments have not been a good meta for you. Most likely your insistence on being a glass cannon is to blame for that. The only reason people make the false claim that thieves can’t be an asset in tPvP is they insist on pigeonholing the class into a burst dps role (you simply CAN NOT use those tactics effectively vs a highly skilled opponent with good defense). My point throughout the entire scope of the argument in this thread is that while thieves do make a decent burst class, they are even more powerful as a light tank with a CC focus.

-edit: I’m growing weary of arguing with a brick wall….not going to engage in this conversation any further. Best of luck to ya, Jinks.

Adaneshade.2409:

Jinks.2057:

You’re team adapted to the fact you want to play a weaker class…..they aren’t a better team for it.

I’m sorry, that tournaments have not been a good meta for you. Most likely your insistence on being a glass cannon is to blame for that. The only reason people make the false claim that thieves can’t be an asset in tPvP is they insist on pigeonholing the class into a burst dps role (you simply CAN NOT use those tactics effectively vs a highly skilled opponent with good defense). My point throughout the entire scope of the argument in this thread is that while thieves do make a decent burst class, they are even more powerful as a light tank with a CC focus.

-edit: I’m growing weary of arguing with a brick wall….not going to engage in this conversation any further. Best of luck to ya, Jinks.

Most my conversation w/ you is in regards to WvW. I gave up on tPvP awhile ago due to the horrible meta it actually is, and it the reason i laughed @ you so hard. If you want to run w/ a premade and stomp PUGs then go right ahead mate.

But if you want to have serious discussion on about an open world PvP class then i’ll be right here.

You know what “pr0” is? Someone who can tie one hand behind their back and still play the game well … gimme that and you’ll earn the pro title, whatever that’s worth.

And who cares? Why do you have to make one build and stick to it all the time? If you have fun with a build, do it, when it stops being fun it isn’t “roxin yer sox off” anymore. kittene – it’s a game.

Jack of Tears.9458:

You know what “pr0” is? Someone who can tie one hand behind their back and still play the game well … gimme that and you’ll earn the pro title, whatever that’s worth.

And who cares? Why do you have to make one build and stick to it all the time? If you have fun with a build, do it, when it stops being fun it isn’t “roxin yer sox off” anymore. kittene – it’s a game.

Normally id afree with except you can run mouse/keyboards and macro.

I do find it slightly sad that what started as a question about arenanets direction (or lack of) with the thief has ended up with a ‘im more pr0 than you’ kitten derailment.

Spiders Spiders Spiders.8043:

I do find it slightly sad that what started as a question about arenanets direction (or lack of) with the thief has ended up with a ‘im more pr0 than you’ kitten derailment.

Don’t be too surprised – this happens all the time. God forbid we try to be productive about the class and its future.