Guild Wars 2

NuhDah.9812:

My point is solo content doesn’t have to do with balance which was the topic of we were discussing. You can solo through the story to level up with glass canon too. Leveling is part of the game but you can never balance the growth of different classes, all you can do make all viable during the leveling content. And safe to say, the leveling content is easy enough so you won’t have too much trouble with any spec.

Okay, thank you for that point. However, it’s still just relevant, mostly, because you keep sidestepping my points that are inconvenient for you. There IS tougher monsters that you can solo, these monsters do require more defensive rotation than a glass cannon, the point of Acro is to provide more defense, player’s like me take it for that very reason to be able to kill monsters like that without help, it has a place in this game and the new buffs slightly improved it’s ability to help do that.

You originally stated that buffing Acro doesn’t mean anything, as if the spec should have been ignored all together and they shouldn’t have tried. It clearly does mean something.

It wasn’t my intent to nullify acro’s existence, I was just saying it’s not relevant for balance. If they would have made acro that good so you could call yourself a thief bunker or tank when using and to be on par with the other bunkers/tanks in the game that would have been a sort of balance. But as it is now it’s neither powerful enough to shine in group content and also the rest of thief issues for other builds were sort of left unexplored.

This patch was a huge win for Thieves for the buffs to LS and Vital Shot alone. The acrobatics buffs, while fairly minor, are just icing.

NuhDah.9812:

It wasn’t my intent to nullify acro’s existence, I was just saying it’s not relevant for balance. If they would have made acro that good so you could call yourself a thief bunker or tank when using and to be on par with the other bunkers/tanks in the game that would have been a sort of balance. But as it is now it’s neither powerful enough to shine in group content and also the rest of thief issues for other builds were sort of left unexplored.

I’m not sure when we got into the idea of using solo content to determine balance, but that wasn’t anything I was arguing for. In general, I would agree that that’s not how you balance pve. You balance pve by making sure all the classes are desirable and have something to offer in group content, like dungeons, fractals, raids, and even open world meta events. There is a need for balance in pve, and this is what you use to balance it. Pvp balance concerns are completely different, thus why I think they should be split. As soon as something is made useful for one gametype, it frequently results in a negative for the other.

Liewec.2896:

as someone who was already playing p/p glass cannon i’m laughing my butt off now hurling out 15k Unloads in Spvp XD
thanks Anet for adding might to my spam skill!

Anyone who plays P/P knows dam well it’s not viable lol even though it’s fun and exciting, Ill wait to see how P/P plays now, but not getting my hopes up at all…

MadRabbit.3179:

What exactly is your point here? You said Acro was pointless; I argued it’s not.

Except you are wrong. DA/CS/DD is still far superior as a PvE spec to Acro/DD/Anything, including solo content. Whatever sustain you gain with Acro while soloing a Champion for absolutely no good reason does not make up the 30-40% DPS loss from giving up DA or CS which will let you kill that mob that much faster. You already have unlimited survivability in PvE with 7 chained dodges, more with staff.

Acro was meant as a PvP tree since rework. It has literally nothing for PvE content.

NuhDah.9812:

It wasn’t my intent to nullify acro’s existence, I was just saying it’s not relevant for balance.

ArenaNet said that it is relevant for balance since they balance the game including solo contents.

“…general changes were also made that will make exploration and solo play in the map more rewarding.”

Second sentence from the recent patch note.

There, you no longer have a ground to stand on.

EDIT: Additional Reference.

GW2 AMA on reddit;
Q: are we going to see the HoT zones be a bit more solo player friendly? …don’t have much interest in taking part in multi-hour long zergs.
ArenaNet: Yes. You shouldn’t have to take part in multi-hour-long zergs. There’s a lot of content in HoT and we’re trying to make it rewarding to play in a variety of play styles.

Korochun.5862:

MadRabbit.3179:

What exactly is your point here? You said Acro was pointless; I argued it’s not.

Except you are wrong. DA/CS/DD is still far superior as a PvE spec to Acro/DD/Anything, including solo content. Whatever sustain you gain with Acro while soloing a Champion for absolutely no good reason does not make up the 30-40% DPS loss from giving up DA or CS which will let you kill that mob that much faster. You already have unlimited survivability in PvE with 7 chained dodges, more with staff.

Acro was meant as a PvP tree since rework. It has literally nothing for PvE content.

Except I am absolutely not wrong. You are trumping up the extra damage percentage the multipliers in Deadly Arts provide and that extra damage just doesn’t matter unless the champion can die before you run out of defensive resources. There is no second place award for getting a champion to 10% health and dying as opposed to 50% and dying. You die, you waypoint, the mob resets. That’s the hard reality if you want to fight big game on your own. 7 chained dodges is great, but it doesn’t matter. That’s 7 attacks you can evade back to back and if you can’t restore the endurance to keep up for a long period of time, you still fizzle out.

You can’t always do that with a pure damage build, particularly champions that are either blind immune or have the reduction in blind effectiveness.

You give up extra damage by taking Acrobatics over the multipliers in DS, but what are you getting in return is nearly an inexhaustible supply of energy. You can effectively double your endurance regen and hit 15 energy a second due to the synergy between the increased endurance bar from Daredevil, the minor traits in Acrobatics and the food buff.

There is no offensive rotation on any HoT champion you can’t outlast with the tools provided in Acrobatics and Daredevil, even really overtuned mobs like Bladedancers and Shadowleapers.

Don’t like it? Want to go damage focused? Can be just fine with it? Sure, fine. But to say, Acrobatics providing nothing for an open world is just the height of one dimensional thinking and misinformation. You can avoid everything, you can outrun everything (now, even without dash with the expeditious dodger changes) and you can disengage and shake aggro at any point.

I play both DS/CS/DD and Acro/CS/DD all the time. I know the limitations of both like the back of my hand and I still alternate between them because they offer different things.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

NuhDah.9812:

It wasn’t my intent to nullify acro’s existence, I was just saying it’s not relevant for balance.

ArenaNet said that it is relevant for balance since they balance the game including solo contents.

“…general changes were also made that will make exploration and solo play in the map more rewarding.”

Second sentence from the recent patch note.

There, you no longer have a ground to stand on.

EDIT: Additional Reference.

GW2 AMA on reddit;
Q: are we going to see the HoT zones be a bit more solo player friendly? …don’t have much interest in taking part in multi-hour long zergs.
ArenaNet: Yes. You shouldn’t have to take part in multi-hour-long zergs. There’s a lot of content in HoT and we’re trying to make it rewarding to play in a variety of play styles.

This is in reference to the changes they made involving the map events and rewards systems. This has nothing to do with changes to individual professions. It’s not even quoted from the profession section of the build notes.

bearshaman.3421:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

NuhDah.9812:

It wasn’t my intent to nullify acro’s existence, I was just saying it’s not relevant for balance.

ArenaNet said that it is relevant for balance since they balance the game including solo contents.

“…general changes were also made that will make exploration and solo play in the map more rewarding.”

Second sentence from the recent patch note.

There, you no longer have a ground to stand on.

EDIT: Additional Reference.

GW2 AMA on reddit;
Q: are we going to see the HoT zones be a bit more solo player friendly? …don’t have much interest in taking part in multi-hour long zergs.
ArenaNet: Yes. You shouldn’t have to take part in multi-hour-long zergs. There’s a lot of content in HoT and we’re trying to make it rewarding to play in a variety of play styles.

This is in reference to the changes they made involving the map events and rewards systems. This has nothing to do with changes to individual professions. It’s not even quoted from the profession section of the build notes.

It was about a question of balancing including solo contents. Are you even following the conversation?

“Reward” is not just the trash you get in your inventory. Making it “rewarding to play in a variety of play styles” means that there will be profession improvements that will allow such play style to be rewarding — which includes the development of the Acrobatic trait line.

I am following it. I just didn’t run off the tracks. But whatever. Hope you’ll at least try to enjoy the game.