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Posted by: imidacloprid.2948

imidacloprid.2948

Daredevil almost felt like it was “there,” with regards to pve. Synergies with other traitlines were there and it was also really neat being able to build a rhythm with dodging and initiative with staff. (All of this post is going to be pve-focused)

Positives:
-The punching skills are very fun to use.
-A new angle from which to play thief, more of a sustained damage dealer.

Issues/concerns:
-The daredevil’s place in pve. As a brawler this class is fragile and not incredibly strong either. A thief should be rewarded more for getting up-close and personal, due to the combined effects naturally low health and being in melee range. Staff affords great mobility, but it is short on survival tricks. This opens up a pitfall in the “sustained damage” behavior of this class, since if you’re not instagibbing and you’re not stealthing, and you’re in melee, you’re probably gonna get hit.

-Vault and AI. This skill has a lot of unused potential in my eyes. It’s just clunky to use. Especially against melee targets controlled by the AI, since when you back up to wind up for the offensive dodge, the foe will follow you and you fly over their head harmlessly. The main ways to work around this is to dodge/roll back then fly in again (counterproductive) or get your target against a wall (not always present.)

Comments/Solutions:
-The daredevil’s place in pve is not an issue that can be hammered out in one change, but a good way to improve quality of life while that is worked out is either higher damage (to win fights faster and justify being squishy) or traits or attack skills that apply some defenses in greater volume (How is the blind on staff 4 supposed to compete with pistol 5 for saving a thief from death?). The third option here would be to split thief hp in pve and pvp and give them more of a chance to soak up a hit in pve(overall thief QOL.)

-Vault: I don’t really know how to fix those issues, and I hope I’m not the only one having trouble with them, but one QOL change that would improve Vault’s behavior for me would be having vault go forward on dodge instead of back like a normal dodge roll. I don’t DT, and the forward-dodge input just feels clunky to me.

-Counter blocks: I really like this part of the game, and especially the physical utility one, but perhaps having one built into staff to make it play a little more like some of the warrior skills would make this class a little better suited for pve.

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Posted by: Mefiq.7039

Mefiq.7039

Pvp feedback there
• Staff as whole seems way worse than s/d or d/p, skills feel clunky, and does not provide enough dmg compared to risk and less options in fight (most ppl just vault around waiting to get killed)
• I love dash, it takes some time to get used to it but its basicly best thing dd has to offer
• Its hard to choose any physical(aside from elite) compaded to SR or shadowstep 15 sec stunbreak/block is fun and i considered picking it over shadowstep but still with all pros and cons shadowstep with his 3condi clears wins when you consider todays meta is CONDI EVERYWHERE. Still worth trying in organized pvp when you have condiclear in team. Dont get me wrong, aside from throwing daggers and heal all other physicals are great (elite could be unblockable or +stability) .

• Well as a traitline it can pretty much mimic deadly arts,(main reason i pick DA is weakness and mug dmg) with DD i could get pretty strong weakness and dmg on rupt(with slight of hand = mug) that in my opinion is way better version of d/p, ofc no panic strike and no direct aoe weakness(still can get aoe with cluster) but considering that more and more classes will get reveal 4 evades are enough to save thieves lifes
• s/d acro/dd/trickery is just sweeet i could win 1v1 1v2 and teamfight well with this build, something im rly happy to see on thief.
• Well daredevil is just better thief, it plays easier than regular one, offers almost 80% same power but gives a lot more defensive options, some new builds that im 100% sure with dare devil around there is almost no reason to play regular thief(soloQ wise) in organized 5v5 it will depend on teammates. Some teams just need deadly arts and shadow arts and there is no way to play w/o trickery

• Thief vs Daredevil, thief i think its 50/50, daredevil just offers more in terms of fighting vs other classes, tvt was always Kill or Redo duel type when both thieves will reset fight till 1 of them wins, daredevil is as good as DA, way better than acro but still not “must have” like trickery

best thing:
• DMG ON RUPT!
worst:
• STAFF
other thougts:
• Daredevil is fun, it transforms bursty thief to kinda control type class (weakness/dmg rupts that makes it worth to use Headshot well), it gives mobility to builds that lacked mobility, it gives dmg to builds that lacked dmg (s/d thief with ton of evades can just bound you to death)

“Im speaker of Truth” – Mefiq.7039 2015

(edited by Mefiq.7039)

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Posted by: fixit.7189

fixit.7189

Staff is much better this time around but it really feels like it is nothing more than left overs from the rev, almost like it’s a rushed decision to meet a dead line; please tell me it isn’t so.

Dardevil is nice and gives incredible mobility however I am not sure I will be specing this at all; the extra bar of stam is nice for openers but once that stam is gone it’s back to the same old waiting game. All thiefs seem to get is +1 stam for the expansion which is a bit of a let down considering all the shiny new things other classes get.

As to suggestions, I really can’t name any because at this point the expansion is soon and all this is more than likely set in stone. Sigh.

p.s. pls change how we hold the staff, I suggest like martial artist hold pikes. ie. arm out with hand in middle with staff head pointed to ground/rest of the shaft tiled diagonally behind the back with other hand palm out kinda deal. Staff looks silly being held like a mace,.

(edited by fixit.7189)

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Posted by: Phloww.1048

Phloww.1048

Aside from the placeholder animations/visuals, the staff is better than its previous performance. I hope Daredevils can hold the staff like the mini Monkey King. I like the extra endurance bar. I definitely like the dash trait (forgot the name).

However, I do feel very squishy and there seems to not be a lot of damage mitigation or evasion, but maybe I just need more practice.

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Posted by: BrunoBRS.5178

BrunoBRS.5178

So this is my bit of feedback:
Overall: Dash and Impaling Lotus feel really good. Bound still feels kinda weird, I’d personally prefer it did damage at the beggining instead at the end. Staff still lacks utility, almoust never used skill 3 and 4.

Weakining Charge: still feels somewhat clunky. I’d be glad if pre-cast and after-cast was removed or at least reduced.

Debilitating Arc: As some people mantioned before, It could be a gap closer instead of escape.

Dust Strike: I feel like this needs to be a field to be relevant. It would bring a lot of synergy between all the staff skills, beacuse right now there is almoust none.

Vault: Its in a good spot for me although the range seems to be bugged.

Channeled Vigor: I found it really nice in pve because of the big heal. Cast time is too long for pvp.

Bandit’s Defence: This skill is fine. Nothing really to add.

Distracting Daggers: I feel like it should have some another benefit to it. Maybe a boon strip or something like that.

Impairing Daggers: I really like this skill. It looks nice and it overall seems pretty strong.

Fist Flurry: This is still doesnt do enough damage. It’s hard to land and it’s not rewarding enough. Palm Strike: I’d love it to be a knockback instead of stun.

Impact Strike: This one is cool and fairly balanced.

As for traits:
Evasive Empowerment: This one is a lot better now.
Weakening Strikes: This is okay.
Brawler’s Tenacity: The endurence gain is too low.
Driven Fortitude: I think it would be a lot better as more of a spike heal with longer ICD.
Staff Master: This is fine.
Escapist Absolution: Really good trait.
Impacting Disruption: Pulmonary Impact should either do more damage or be able to crit.

I’d also like to thank Karl and the whole team for the work you’ve all done. Daredevil is my favorite elite spec both thematicly and mechanicly, it just needs some more love, thats all. Cheers.

really nice feedback, even if i don’t agree with all of it. i definitely agree that weakening charge could have less of a precast (aftercast is fine), and yeah, vault is most definitely bugged right now (less range and smaller AoE than indicated, which doesn’t help the already short range of the skill). dust strike being a field is one consistent feedback i’ve seen that i disagree with, ‘cause it would be too similar to pistol 5 (even better than it, actually, since it would have a larger radius). i’d much rather have it be a circular AoE, so that when you’re in the middle of a teamfight, you use it as a clutch blind. debilitating arc, i don’t think i’d want it to be our gap closer. maybe if the evasion started earlier in the attack and leapt you further back, and instead of cripple it dazed (zomg synergy with the interrupt trait).

as for fist flurry, yeah, a knockback would actually be really cool, and yeah, it’s a bit too hard to land and has little utility to it. i still run it because CC is important in stronghold and it’s a PvP game mode where people WILL stay still to get hit to the face depending on the situation :P

Another tiny personal note :

For imparing dagger :
The skill is great. It’s just that I feel it would look more dynamic if the trajectory of the daggers was straight like the pistols and they just disappear when they reached the range limit.
I personally think that it makes the daggers look weak when their trajectory is an arc.

(It’s not important I know, but I wanted to share my view on this point)

i actually kinda like how they go in a straight line until the edge of the range, and then fall off. so long as it doesn’t affect gameplay.

LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell

(edited by BrunoBRS.5178)

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Posted by: Bllade.1029

Bllade.1029

Another tiny personal note :

For imparing dagger :
The skill is great. It’s just that I feel it would look more dynamic if the trajectory of the daggers was straight like the pistols and they just disappear when they reached the range limit.
I personally think that it makes the daggers look weak when their trajectory is an arc.

(It’s not important I know, but I wanted to share my view on this point)

i actually kinda like how they go in a straight line until the edge of the range, and then fall off. so long as it doesn’t affect gameplay.

Daredevil gameplay should revolve around speed; everything should be fast. Those daggers included, if they had a projectile speed increase they’d be in a great spot.

[VLK] – No one ever complains about bad Thieves, they die.

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Posted by: BrunoBRS.5178

BrunoBRS.5178

Another tiny personal note :

For imparing dagger :
The skill is great. It’s just that I feel it would look more dynamic if the trajectory of the daggers was straight like the pistols and they just disappear when they reached the range limit.
I personally think that it makes the daggers look weak when their trajectory is an arc.

(It’s not important I know, but I wanted to share my view on this point)

i actually kinda like how they go in a straight line until the edge of the range, and then fall off. so long as it doesn’t affect gameplay.

Daredevil gameplay should revolve around speed; everything should be fast. Those daggers included, if they had a projectile speed increase they’d be in a great spot.

but are they slow? i rarely ever miss them, and for something so strong on such a low cooldown, i think having pistol-speed would be just wrong.

LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell

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Posted by: BrunoBRS.5178

BrunoBRS.5178

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAWVn8lCFmiVmCmOBkmildCbLAUbaTdvlZwca+A+ArgA-TZBFABC8AAsZ/BxLDswRAAgLBAA

this is what i’ve been running in stronghold. it’s really, really good at hitting really hard, and you don’t even notice the lack of initiative from skipping out trickery.

  • fist flurry is purely optional, i bring it ‘cause it’s free CC on static enemies.
  • i run pain response instead of vigorous recovery for extra anti-condi safety, and despite running 4 physicals, i pick evasive empowerment ‘cause it’s an immense DPS gain.
  • you can swap the amulet for something more tanky (valk, cavalier) if you feel like, but i found i really missed having permanent 75% crit chance with ridiculous ferocity thanks to practiced tolerance.
  • the heal is not the safest thing in the world right now, but i found that it’s a really strong heal at a good cooldown, and more importantly, it gives me 75 endurance back, or it’ll just heal me even more if i had spare endurance.

downsides of this build:

  • same staff woes as always: little to no defense of itself, mobility relegated to shortbow, not a lot of sticking power.
  • incredibly selfish. not having shadow refuge, or just SA in general, means you won’t have any sort of group support.
  • glassy as f***. even if you opt for the more defensive amulets, the thief is still very vulnerable without using its active defenses, and active defenses are few in the staff (as previously mentioned). to see how much this hurts a build, just look at P/P without bound for free stealths. the only reason people are talking about P/P builds now is because, with the help of bound, P/P can finally have a reliable way to bail from fights, or at least reposition. “oh, but why don’t you just take dash instead?” well, hypothetical reader, then what’s the point of bound and evasive empowerment? are those two traits just not meant to be used with staff, since staff needs that survivability? isn’t it more likely that the problem is in the weapon itself pigeonholing you into a single option?
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell

(edited by BrunoBRS.5178)

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Posted by: Bllade.1029

Bllade.1029

Another tiny personal note :

For imparing dagger :
The skill is great. It’s just that I feel it would look more dynamic if the trajectory of the daggers was straight like the pistols and they just disappear when they reached the range limit.
I personally think that it makes the daggers look weak when their trajectory is an arc.

(It’s not important I know, but I wanted to share my view on this point)

i actually kinda like how they go in a straight line until the edge of the range, and then fall off. so long as it doesn’t affect gameplay.

Daredevil gameplay should revolve around speed; everything should be fast. Those daggers included, if they had a projectile speed increase they’d be in a great spot.

but are they slow? i rarely ever miss them, and for something so strong on such a low cooldown, i think having pistol-speed would be just wrong.

There’s a pretty large difference between pistol speed and the current projectile speed of those daggers, doesn’t have to be Pistol speed and I agree; something that strong should at least be able to be dodged. However, we could up the speed just a bit and still remain safely in balance.

[VLK] – No one ever complains about bad Thieves, they die.

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Posted by: Akumetsu.8591

Akumetsu.8591

unfortunatly my impression on daredevil as a long time thief player are not great. let me first say i think it is pretty good and with a few buffs could be viable alongside the other specs. My main complaint is it really really does feel like i’m just playing acrobatics pre nerf again with a longer dodge or warrior minor trait for the bound trait and less dodges. It does not feel like something new and i wish it did i love thief and may even still play thief. Daredevil just does not change thief in a way that makes it feel different. The next unfortunate part is it puts even more reliance on landing steal! with our endurance Regen being directly related to landing steal it is even more critical we land every steal we use. lets list all the thing steal does and why if we land it we are going to lose the fight.
dmg/heal
endurance regen
boon rip
poison/weakness
cd reset
might/fury/swiftness/vigor
daze
2init
landing this skill in a fight as a thief is literally do or die and i was really hoping we could move past having to stack all our traits into one skill because the other trait choices suck. SO with thief being the way it is it is the most punishing class if you do something wrong as small as miss count the opponents dodges which is really hard with energy sigil procs + vigor. I got off topic but my point is daredevil DOES feel like old acrobatics with a little bit of powdered sugar on top to make it look different and i am sad about it ._.

One hope, One dream, One Dagger Thief
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Posted by: BrunoBRS.5178

BrunoBRS.5178

ok, this is probably my last post for this beta, i’ll probably hold out until the dev replies on new changes start rolling out. i’ll try to keep it short.

  • i like the daredevil. i really do. it’s a neat idea and one worth insisting on.
  • when the devs finish reading this thread and sit down for a meeting to discuss what to improve on DD, i want them to ask themselves this: what does staff do that other thief sets don’t do better? i don’t mean “i want staff to be the best option”, i mean “i want staff to have a specific area where it’s better than the other sets, just like those sets fill their respective niches”.
  • similarly, i want the devs to look at the whole thief profession, and ask “what can thief bring to a group (be it PvP, raids, or WvW) that other professions can’t do just as well, if not better? what is our role in the three endgame modes to keep us viable?”
  • don’t forget the core thief just because the elite spec is just around the corner. namely, the current state of the acrobatics line being underwhelming, and the salt to the wound that the daredevil line introduces (it being very reminisscent of the old acrobatics line, and encouraging the same evade-heavy playstyle).

these are the four points that i really, really want the devs to take to heart when discussing the future of daredevil and thief as a whole. more specific feedback can be read through this and many other threads.

LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell

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Posted by: childhoodtwo.7095

childhoodtwo.7095

My feedback after playing for 2 days :
trailine :
evasive empowerment – doesnt feel usefull the duration is to short duration
weakening strikes – ok can be usefull
brawlers tenacity – useless
staffmaster – its staff = (all staff skills feels slow and terrible for me there are some desync issues too , imobilize in mid air while casting 5 = gg cant even come close to s/d or d/p or s/p or p/o)
escapiest absolution – this is good and reliable
impacting distruption – this is also kinda ok
lotus training – no comment on that one
unhindered combatant – this is ok
bounding dodger – i have mixed feelings about this one on paper its ok but in my tests its kinda not very realliable dmg source to waste dodge on it.

Overall : Daredevil feels like improved acro line for s/d s/p users, i like the fact we can stack swiftness and be evasive but the dmg was not there we dont provide anything for groups too and compared to other elite spec or the vanila thief it still feels weak and underperforming.

Conclusion : da/sa/tricekry d/pis still better in almost every way.
I hope they find a balanced way to make us be able to compete against all other classess and specs, i feel like we are at the bottom of the foodchain again since everyone has hight dmg output and much more survivability and utility.
I dont wanna be the res +1 or decap bot in spvp too tnx.

I forgot to add that acrobatics is still useless unless you wanna be that guy that just dodges and does nothing else.

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Posted by: Urejt.5648

Urejt.5648

BOUND dodge bug: character can be dmged even skill says evade by some skills. Noticed sword pistol thief delivered dmg despite dodgin

Yo Hooj Jest Pole

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Posted by: childhoodtwo.7095

childhoodtwo.7095

s/p thief will deliver dmg because you dont evade all the 3 skill s/p sword hits.
On topic i forgot to add all physicals skills in general feels terrible and useless i cant tell how to improve something that just doesnt work with thief.

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Posted by: JOKe.3597

JOKe.3597

My feedback from beta weekend 3.
The dodges are now nice.. the Imapling Lotus and the dash are great the animation works ok. The last dodge however is a bit of .. meh dont like it, very hard to really hit someone with it and I guess everyone will use it just because there is nothing else if they like stealth. However I doubt that anyone with stealth ideas will take daredevil traitline.
The utility skills I like them the bandit defence I will put it to be 1.5s block or 2 instead of 1 but even like that its ok.
What I do NOT like is the staff.
The staff is so so bad compared to everything… I was playing mostly sword dagger instead of staff because of better skills and higher damage.
The staff idle animation is a joke.. is this a hammer why we dont hold it like a staff ?
The staff skill 1 is ok.
The skill 2 doesnt have evade ? Whaat it looks like it is evading but no evade ?
THe skill 3 which do have evade will roll me backwards so I am out of position … it is ok for short bow but for staff which is a melee weapon !? completely useless, only the animation is good
The skill 4 damage is now fine however I do not believe I will use it as much as I would want to.
The skill 5 I dont like the range.. and in order to hit it it is almost like hitting with warrior hammer stun
What changes I would do on the staff.
Idle animation – to hold the staff with one hand behind the back or on the side of the hero you know what I mean
SKill 1 – to stay as it is
Skill 2 – to add evade
Skill 3 and skill 4 to merge them … to do the rolling back + the blind-ness from the ground. It just make sense I want to go back and to blind him so I dont take damage I wont to retreat.
Skill 5 I will make the damage smaller but the range bigger + the animation faster.
Since I have an empty slot .. from the merge of 3 and 4 I will add a 360 degree hit. This is an extremely legendary hit from every staff movie or every staff fight with more then 1 person you can find.. a 360 spinning hit with the staff causing some condition ( I would go for bleeding).
Anyway overall very very good beta.. I am switching to thief as my main from warrior since the warrior …
P.S. Overall comment about the new traits.. I HATE THE NAMING. we have like Dead Arts, ACrobatics and etc.. like a styles and suddenly daredevil !??! wtf ? or for warrior it is even more absurd.. Strength, Discipline, Tactics.. and then Berserker ?!?! what is this ? why not Fury ? and for Daredevil it looks to me more acrobatics then the acrobatics.. I would definitely change the “traits” naming.

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Posted by: Blood Red Arachnid.2493

Blood Red Arachnid.2493

Hello folks!
I havent read all comments but…

The passive trait Driven Fortitude in Daredevil.
It dosent work at all while im evading attacks.
But the condi removal works good.

I tested this. Driven Fortitude does heal. However, it doesn’t appear in the combat log.


As for the chill thing: I guess this is more of a personal preference. From a PVE perspective the likelyhood of being near a chronomancer is high, while the likelyhood of being subjected to chill beyond innate cleansing is very low. As far as PVP goes, I guess we’ll have to weight those to together: chilled beyond cleansing vs. a chronomancer is around.

I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.

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Posted by: PopeUrban.2578

PopeUrban.2578

I think, also, that with the alacrity/chill question it could be easily remedied by simply giving the thief additional innate counters to chill. We already have many traits that specifically cleanse debilitating but not damaging conditions. Adding chill to those lists as a counterbalance and having chill affect init again would be a fine middle ground IMO.

Guild Master – The Papacy [POPE] (Gate of Madness)/Road Scholar for the Durmand Priory
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
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Posted by: Sagat.3285

Sagat.3285

I think, also, that with the alacrity/chill question it could be easily remedied by simply giving the thief additional innate counters to chill. We already have many traits that specifically cleanse debilitating but not damaging conditions. Adding chill to those lists as a counterbalance and having chill affect init again would be a fine middle ground IMO.

SE revert?

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Posted by: Shogun.7401

Shogun.7401

Please add f3 option for dodges this will motivate me to migrate to hot.

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Posted by: Tabootrinket.2631

Tabootrinket.2631

About the weapons on physical skills :
Is it possible to put the weapons in the stowed position during those animations ?
Having them disappear during those sequences make them feel incomplete.

(edited by Tabootrinket.2631)

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Posted by: GodSaw.2675

GodSaw.2675

I would very much enjoy a condition trait in the daredevil line. Lotus strike is fine but all by itself I dont know if it justifies going into Daredevil for a condition build/ makes condi on thief really viable.

My idea:

1. give Lotus training A flat condi increase/ condition durration increase
2. Make a trait that applies poison when ever you apply weakness ( would justifie going into Weakening strike for a condi build.
3. Give flat condi buffs to other traits.

Please make condi share viable it is such a great build idea with clear strength ( potential very highy single target dps) And clear weaknesses ( low trash clear dmg, requieres coordiantion)

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Posted by: Nike.2631

Nike.2631

About the weapons on physical skills :
Is it possible to put the weapons in the stowed position during those animations ?
Having them disappear during those sequences make them feel incomplete.

+1

“You keep saying ‘its unfair.’
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.

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Posted by: Luto.1938

Luto.1938

Just a couple things to wish for with Daredevil:

- Please revert bound dodge back to leap finisher! It is much more useful as a leap finisher for those of us using x/p or even staff. It’s a great way to apply stealth and without it x/p is back to only being able to stealth when swapping to short bow.

- Escapist’s Absolution. This is a good concept for removing conditions that isn’t Shadow’s embrace, but it can be difficult to rely on. For example, if you need to get out of the fight due to low hp, you will die to the condi that you cannot remove. I found myself leaving the fight with 3-4k hp and dying to 3 stacks of burn. Also… DD is easy to counter if you are running a condi build. Simply apply condi, and then /ignore and they have no attacks to evade. If a DD has no attacks to evade they simply die to the condi that they cannot evade cleanse. Relying on the enemy to attack you so you can survive feels a bit odd, and easy to counter. DD needs a way to cleanse condi without relying on an enemies attacks.

Overall I find the DD really fun to play and it’s really nice to be able to play s/d again! Also the staff is fun and does really nice damage now, but I see it being more of a PvE weapon than a PvP one. If the condition cleansing gets some work I see DD being a great alternative to the current d/p meta.

Luto Locke
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Posted by: Shogun.7401

Shogun.7401

Karl,

I would like to know if you are considering to implement dodge toggle option on f3?

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Posted by: corwen.5798

corwen.5798

Just a couple things to wish for with Daredevil:

- Please revert bound dodge back to leap finisher! It is much more useful as a leap finisher for those of us using x/p or even staff. It’s a great way to apply stealth and without it x/p is back to only being able to stealth when swapping to short bow..

Dude, it is a leap finisher, the text’s only wrong.

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Posted by: knyy.6427

knyy.6427

About the weapons on physical skills :
Is it possible to put the weapons in the stowed position during those animations ?
Having them disappear during those sequences make them feel incomplete.

oh yes please!!!

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Posted by: T raw.4658

T raw.4658

My input after playing some DD this time around.

Its better than last beta, but needs lots of work. My message to Karl is simple:

Stop doing changes with the current meta in mind. Seriously you need to balance to the power creep. You did this in June and look where it got us. Its time to give thieves what they actually need for tomorrow.

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Posted by: Luto.1938

Luto.1938

Dude, it is a leap finisher, the text’s only wrong.

Ah you are correct. I just read the text, didnt run x/p that much as I was primarily focused on staff and s/d. I did notice however that you need to land in the field to get the effect, which makes it hard to get the stealth from black powder.

Luto Locke
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Posted by: Rin.1046

Rin.1046

Ok, so I played a bit more of the staff DD over the weekend, in PvE and PvP, doing a few conquest and stronghold matches, and roaming around Verdant Brink, and I’d like to give a bit more feedback on the Daredevil.

Staff
While staff deals decent damage, I feel that as a melee weapon it simply doesn’t offer enough utility and survival to make you want to take it instead of sword/x or dagger/pistol. Let me compare what each melee set provides to explain my feelings:

Sword/Pistol
– Cripple on autoattack (good at keeping your target close)
– 900 range gap closer + condi removal (an excellent multi-purpose skill)
– 900 range daze (a ranged daze on a melee set, what’s not to like?)
– Melee stun + evade (the negative here is the self root, but the stun & evade are useful and the damage (if you can stay on your target) is excellent)
– AoE blind smoke field (excellent defense and now we have bound grants access to stealth, making it even stronger for SP)

Sword/Dagger
– Cripple on autoattack
– 900 range gap closer + condi removal
– Evade + boon steal (while I find the evade clunky on this skill, it can be useful and the boon steal can be a game changer)
– 900 range multi target cripple (very useful for catching fleeing targets)
– Stealth + vuln (good at softening up the target and the stealth is an excellent defensive tool on the sword)

Dagger/Pistol
– Endurance gain + poison on autoattack (the endurance gain on this is very useful)
– Low cost 450 range gap closer + leap finisher (closing gaps and gaining stealth, a very useful skill)
– 900 range gap closer + blind (not much can escape a thief using this skill)
– 900 range daze
– AoE blind smoke field

Staff
– Reflect on autoattack (an ok effect, but you need to be in melee range to stop ranged attacks, which is ok if you can stay on your target)
– 2 Seconds of AoE weakness (not that strong in the current condi cleanse meta)
– Evade + immob & cripple removal (a good skill, but moves you further away from your target than all dodge rolls except dash)
– 600 range blind in a line (I think the cast time and cost are too high for 1 stack of blindness)
– 600 Range high damage + leap skill (that is currently not reaching the range it should or hitting targets at the edge of the targeting circle, that aside it moves too slow and can be hard to hit moving players, and I also feel the range is too short)

So here are my issues with staff:
– The gap closers do not have a long enough range and are too costly to use, compared to other weapons.
– The other weapons have access to stealth and/or blind fields, which are easier to use and more forgiving than evades, making them more effective at surviving in melee range than staff.
– Weakness is not strong enough to make up for the lack of a blinding field or stealth.
– The interrupt potential of the staff is not very reliable and very limited compared to SP or DP.
– The evade takes you too far away from your target and offers limited control over where you go in that split second moment.

How I would like to see the staff improved:
– Increase the range, and reduce the cost of, one or more of the staff’s gap closers. I think a gap closer/creator is one of the most vital components to a melee weapon. The staff feels like it is crippling itself with such short range gap closers.
– Because evading is less forgiving than stealth or blind (if you mistime it you fail), I think control over the staff’s evade skill needs to be improved. The staff is supposed to be the evade spec’s weapon of choice, so it would make sense to make the staff a desirable weapon to those who wish to focus on evasion. Either reduce the range of the evade to 350 (allowing you to stay closer to the fight (the whole purpose of the DD) and allowing you to synergize the skill better with bound), or change the direction of the evade to move you in the direction you are moving at the time (moving you backwards if you are not moving).
– I think a 1% vuln stack per hit, for 2-3 seconds each, should be added to Weakening Charge, along with the weakness, to give it some extra team support.
– I think Dust Strike should do a 1/4 second daze to your target, only if they are in melee range. This would then justify the cast time and cost in my opinion. Either that or reduce the cost to 3 ini and make the cast time 1/4 of a second.
– I think Vault is not bad as a damage skill, but needs a slight improvement to its speed. Leap and AoE range issues aside, I think the leap range should be increased to 750-900 and the cast/animation speed increased (to get you to your target slightly faster). As it currently stands the skill feels too short range and too slow to use. Quite often I see people (myself included) missing their mark, when not using steal to jump to the target. If the speed of the leap was increased, this may help to reduced this issue. There obviously needs to be that chance you can miss, or more accurately that chance an enemy can react to your vault, but the enemy really should have to use a dodge or skill to avoid it. Currently someone can easily just run around and avoid this attack without using endurance or skills.

Utility Skills
Bandit’s Defense
Overall a really good skill. I know a lot of players complain about the lunge you perform, but to be honest for a stunbreak on such a short cooldown we really cannot complain. This will be on my skill bar for sure, and is one of the main skills making me want to play the DD.

Distracting Daggers
While the increased skill cooldown on interrupt is a nice feature, the pre-cast time and active dagger duration puts me off using this skill. I would like to see the pre-cast removed altogether and the duration increased. Change the skill to a chain skill, where the pre-cast throws the first dagger straight away, and then changes the skill to dagger two, etc. This would allow us to be far more reactive with the skill, rather than being predictive and hoping an opportunity arises where you need the daggers within the duration. It feels like an unnecessary limitation, when we have chain skill technology available on our elite skill.

Fist Flurry
The damage is great and the second part of the skill is good too, my only criticism is how difficult it can be to get all 5 strikes to connect in a PvP match. Postioning and timing alone are not enough to succeed most of the time, and you often have to rely on other CC or an unaware opponent to get the skill to work. I would suggest that the second part of the skill be changed to activate if at least 3 of the 5 strikes hit. This would make it easier to hit, without taking away the conditional element.

Impairing Daggers
A good skill overall, though I feel the cooldown could be reduced slightly.

Impact Strike
This skill has replaced Basilisk Venom. A great skill, though if the duration of each chain could be increased that would be great. At the moment, if you are prevented from using chain two or three for too long, the skill will go on cooldown, which can be quite frustrating at times. Other than that, this skill is another reason why I am going to play DD.

Traits
Major Adept Traits
With the exception of Evasive Empowerment, these traits are ok. Evasive Empowerment though feels weak, and I will not be choosing this trait in its current form. The duration is too short or the damage buff too small. I think 20% bonus damage over 2 seconds or 10% bonus damage over 4 seconds would be more respectable and would make it competative with the other adept traits.

Major Master Traits
All these traits are good, though I think Staff Master could use a small buff. Currently I take either Escapist’s Absolution or Impacting Disruption, depending on my build, I rarely take Staff Master. If the endurance gain was 3 per point of ini used, I think it would be more competative with the other two master traits.

Major Grandmaster Traits
Again, each of these traits is a good choice, depending on your build. I know Bound is not working as intended at the moment, so I won’t complain about that. Providing Bound remains a leap at launch I think all three of the grand master traits will be worth it. However, I still feel the animation on bound feels clunky. It just doesn’t seem to flow as well as the other two dodges. It feels like there is a slight pre-cast delay that makes it feel awkward. If the delay could be removed, and the flow of Bound improved, it will be perfect. The other two dodge replacers feel like they are in a really good state right now.

Overall
Overall, I really like the Daredevil, and I will be running it come HoT release. It adds to the profession and gives us more options. I think the staff needs a fair bit of work to make it competative with the other weapons, and some of the utility skills need buffing, but I am very happy with the DD so far. I hope Anet can improve things further and make me even happier with it, but overall I hope Anet improves the staff above all.

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Posted by: Ihales.3820

Ihales.3820

So Daredevil in BWE3:
It is certainly better than BWE2, but still far from perfect state where it should be. Most of the points are from PvP perspective (sPvP and smallscale WvW).

Traits:
Evasive Empowerment – this change is certainly better than what it was.
Weakening Strikes – same as last beta, good adept trait.
Brawler’s Tenacity – really weak, it should restore at least 25 endurance when used considering the CD on skills and that it is applied only once per CD not per activation in case of chaining skills or with skill with charges. Second option Which I would prefer was remove endurance regeneration completely and add unblock-able to physical skills which would greatly benefit all skills except heal.

Driven Fortitude – still not impressed by this trait, either buff it or give it to Escapist’s Absolution or switch this with Escapist’s Absolution.

Staff master – quite weak when compared to other two traits, maybe more endurance regeneration? I am not sure about this one.
Escapist’s Absolution – Pretty much must have unless you want to die to random conditions, not good enough against condition builds on it’s own. Would be awesome if it had 2 charges with separate CD. So you evade once = 1 condition removed. You evade 2+attacks = 2 conditions removed.
Impacting Disruption – quite good in certain builds maybe add +5s CD on interrupted skill?

Endurance thief – Would be nice if this actually removed endurance from enemy as the name of the trait suggests. So stealing endurance not just gaining.

Lotus training – haven’t tried this one in PvP so can’t tell much other than the execution and animation are not good. As someone already stated releasing projectiles should be based either on starting or finishing location only not just spread through whole animation.
Unhindered combatant – I like it now, animation can be better, but you already know this and are working on it.
Bounding dodger – could not really be tested as anything else than reckless dodge this beta. I guess you are aware that when running the leap effect is accomplished few steps after landing, right?

Overall regarding traits I disagree with placing dodges as GM traits. They should be chose-able like revenant’s legends. As new GM traits there can be slightly improved versions of master traits or new ones adding more synergy with other DD traits and other specializations. This is the biggest problem with DD, it has poor synergy with the rest of the thief in case of DD’s traits even among each other. Acrobatics should be awesome with DD, but some traits have same effect or don’t work well together (endurance regeneration, movement impairing effects,…).

Staff:
It is much better than previous beta. I think the main thing it lacks is some kind of combo-field, smoke or dark.

Utilities:
Bandit’s defense – good but the 15s seems too long. 10s was too short. 12s might be good without trait?
Distracting daggers – seems quite weak. It should be quick response ability, but the charging and casting, not being projectile, but getting destroyed/reflected/blocked makes it nor worth while. Better implementation of current state: When equipped it put 3 charges on you. Each with separate CD, refreshing automatically, probably slightly longer than now (30s?). Then either make it projectile finisher or make it go through either blocks or reflects/deflects (through traits as suggested above or some other way).
Impairing Daggers – good make it fly a bit faster and/or make it projectile finished (triple)
Fist Flurry – not worth taking in current state. Only way to land on non-AI opponent is to CC them and they are not breaking/using anything. For this setup the damage/reward is too low. Random blocks, evades, moving out of range makes it fail 9/10. Some issues could be solved by increasing range slightly and/or making the attacks unblock-able by trait (suggested above).

Channeled Vigor – cast time still too long not sure if bugged or not. Not very good right now because of it. With 1,5-2s cast time it might see some use in some game-types.

Impact strike – good, but totally ruined by invulnerability in downed. Somehow when playing revenant and using Unrelenting assault on low hp target after putting it in downed there was either one or none “invulnerable” moments per use. Make it ignore this moment, or try to minimize it (I think that’s what somehow happening on revenant) and it will be good.

Overall as I written elsewhere I am satisfied with DD as specialization if it was in current meta. Compared to other elite specialization it is really weak. I am also quite kittened by developer attitude. After BWE2 (first for DD) it was “We are making bug fixes” now it is “We are close to release no big changes only small ones”. This makes the whole process almost pointless because we are lacking some serious balancing.
If developers think that DD is balanced with specializations like Chronomancer, Reaper, Herald(revenant), Druid, Scrapper, then show us proof of this because right now it is clearly far behind and there were none or minimal nerfs from BWE2->BWE3 for those specializations that were there.

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Posted by: babazhook.6805

babazhook.6805

My wrapup on the Daredevil Spec. Note this summary will relate to DD almost entirely although I do think work needed on other aspects of the thief (in particular acro)

Overall in most cases damage is where it should be now. The issues I have are not focused on damage but with the abilities and utilities intended to mitigate it in turn. If a thief expected to survive very long in battle without much access to stealth and given the power creep of all other classes and their ability to inflict yet more damage it my feeling the DD and Staff spec lacking. My observations and solutions admitting some of the ideas were proposed by others.

Traits.

The extra endurance bar is a good start but the fact there no faster rate of regeneration of the same hurts the outcome. I think this needs to be addressed.

As such. Add to enforcer training a version of the old FG from Acro. (acro endless stamina and Feline grace should remain).

Enforcer training add “Gain 10 endurance after every dodge”.

Brawlers Tenacity Change Endurance gained when using physical skills to 15

Evasive empowerment Increase time to use skill to 5 seconds or change to on next attack gain 10 percent bonus damage.

Weakening strikes is fine.

Driven Fortitude. Increase health gained by 20 percent or drop health gained by 10 percent and remove cooldown.

Escapists absolution . Add a condition plus one effect. Change to On evade remove weakness plus one condition.

Staff mastery. Keep as is but remove requirment to have less then full percent endurance for the bonus.

Impacting disruption. Since there no Crit increase damage by 10 percent.

Endurance thief Good

Unhindered Combat Good.

Dodging bounder. needs a survival component in addition to the evade/dodge. Add “on dodge gain 2 seconds protection”

Impaling lotus. Needs a survival component in addition to the dodge and evade. Add “on dodge gain 2 seconds resistance”

(edited by babazhook.6805)

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Posted by: babazhook.6805

babazhook.6805

Staff skills

Autoattack chain all good (I am not addressing animations)

Weakening strikes is good.

Debilitating arc. Make this main defensive trait. Add a block to the skill that procs after the evade. Add to the skill the ability to leap back into combat if the block not used in two seconds. This leap back into the fray optional but would be a leap finisher and have a small amount of damage. It would inflict a 1/4 second daze..

Dust strike. Generate a 4 second dark field in addition.

Vault. Keep Inititaive the same. Increase leap to 700. Add 1/2 second evade to leap. This starts at beginning of the leap. (meaning it can be interrupted if well timed)

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Posted by: babazhook.6805

babazhook.6805

Physical skills

Impairing dagger good.

Distracting daggers good.

Fist Flurry. decrease total time to get skill off to 1 second.

Bandits defense. Add 1/2 second evade after an attack blocked.

Impact strike.Add 2 second stun in addition to daze.

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Posted by: Shadow Dragon Bob.7160

Shadow Dragon Bob.7160

Staff 1-3 are so much better than they were. In pve I triggered ALL THE WHIRL FINISHERS, which gave staff its own feel. Give dust strike projectile absorption and a dark field, and it would be the most amazing skill that we would talk about all day. Vault does need that evade frame still, but the improved speed made it usable in pve. Not great, but usable. Dash is in a REALLY good place, but that means that Bound and Lotus training need improvement to keep up. Someone recommended that Lotus not break stealth, I don’t know if this can be done but whirl finishing while staying stealth would be crazy awesome. Let Bound grant stability, as right now our only source is through using dagger storm, which is never going to happen in pvp. Unlike lotus training that would be an easy benefit to tack on and make the grand master trait ‘grand master worthy’

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Posted by: Rin.1046

Rin.1046

Debilitating arc. Make this main defensive trait. Add a block to the skill that procs after the evade. Add to the skill the ability to leap back into combat if the block not used in two seconds. This leap back into the fray optional but would be a leap finisher and have a small amount of damage. It would inflict a 1/4 second daze..

Dust strike. Generate a 4 second dark field in addition.

Vault. Keep Inititaive the same. Increase leap to 700. Add 1/2 second evade to leap. This starts at beginning of the leap. (meaning it can be interrupted if well timed)

These are good suggestions, but a little too strong in places. Here are some changes to your suggestions:

Debilitating Arc – Evade backwards and block for 2 seconds. If you block an attack in melee range you stop blocking and knockdown the attacker for 1 second. If you use the skill again, while blocking, you stop blocking and evade back to your target. Initial evade back and block cost = 4 ini, return evade cost =2 ini.

I can envision some interesting tactical uses of this skill. For example, you could dodge forwards then DA back to them for a blocking knockdown in melee range, or you can evade back and forth without the block if you are out of endurance. I opted for a knockdown over a daze as I feel thematically knockdown is more fitting for the staff.

Dust Strike – I like the idea of a dark field, but I feel 4 seconds is way too long for a 4 ini skill cost. Either the ini cost would need to increase to 5-6 ini, or preferrably the field duration should be reduced to 2 seconds. I am not keen on high ini costs and would prefer them to remain low, even if it is at the cost of short duration effects, as it gives us more control over what we do. If we want a longer duration we can use the skill twice, but if the ini cost and duration is high and you only use the effect for half the duration it will be wasted ini.

Vault – If DA is changed as per the above suggestion I do not think we would need another evade on Vault, but if DA doesn’t change then an evade on Vault would be good. I also think the range and animation speed should be increased so we can more reliably hit our targets with it. Vault to me is our gap closer, so it should have longer range (preferrably 900) and faster travel time. If the evade increases the ini cost, I would rather not have the evade, seeing as we already have one on the staff.

Simplicity is complex.

Good feedback is key to getting the developers to listen to you.

(edited by Rin.1046)

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Posted by: Shockwave.1230

Shockwave.1230

I felt like the elite is impossible to land the second hit when people run directly away from you. I hope I’m wrong and was just frequently unlucky

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Posted by: Zodryn.4216

Zodryn.4216

Staff 1-3 are so much better than they were. In pve I triggered ALL THE WHIRL FINISHERS, which gave staff its own feel. Give dust strike projectile absorption and a dark field, and it would be the most amazing skill that we would talk about all day. Vault does need that evade frame still, but the improved speed made it usable in pve. Not great, but usable. Dash is in a REALLY good place, but that means that Bound and Lotus training need improvement to keep up. Someone recommended that Lotus not break stealth, I don’t know if this can be done but whirl finishing while staying stealth would be crazy awesome. Let Bound grant stability, as right now our only source is through using dagger storm, which is never going to happen in pvp. Unlike lotus training that would be an easy benefit to tack on and make the grand master trait ‘grand master worthy’

Lotus has strike damage currently, which is what reveals you. All you need to do is remove that and whirling around without being revealed is possible.

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Posted by: Sir Vincent III.1286

Sir Vincent III.1286

This is what I ran this weekend.
Where: PvE (I PvP’ed with my Necro — Thief sucks in PvP)
Build: P/P + Staff
Link: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAqaWn8lCdmiNPBeOB0PhFqiy7C+gSoLCCggcu67+wH-TRCBwA5UpQ5+DYV+JRJIgTAQK9AJMBpTdlAPAAA-e

The Good:
- Evasive Emp + Lotus Training + Expeditious Dodger + Uncatchable – this synergy is not for the faint of heart. This build is an “up in your face” P/P duelling while surrounded. These traits ensures that the DD gunslinger survives.

- Channelled Vigor + Vigorous Recovery + Endless Stamina – this synergy worked great together to keep my DD P/P in the fray.

- Driven Fortitude + Escapist Absolution + Feline Grace – this synergy works really well with this build since it gives me 3 things on an evade; health, endurance, and condition removal.

- Bounding Dodger + Vault + Staff Mastery – I switch-up to staff from time to time especially during a night invasion. The synergy of Vault → Bounding Dodger allowed me to deal massive AoE damage. Staff will have +10% damage at all times since I’m using dodge as an attack skill.

- Dash Animation and Mechanic – two thumbs up. I used this just to see what’s it all about but it doesn’t work for my build. However I see the value of it in PvP.

The Bad:
- Driven Fortitude/Escapist Absolution/Feline Grace ICD – internal cool down on these skills in PvE is BAD — really really BAD. The ICD should stay in PvP where it belong. During a night invasion, too much things are going on from different sources and the ICD gets me killed every time. The after-cast delay on dodge should be enough. I can play safe but what’s the fun in that?

- Hard to Catch/Don’t Stop ICD – again, internal cool down issue. Since there is no visual indication when these traits triggered nor an indication when it is in CD, these traits becomes unreliable when I really need them.

- P/P damage – even with the recent buff to Pistol damage, it’s not enough for PvE even with a full stack of Might. This is when I usually suggest that the difference in PvE and PvP should be taken into considerations because while the Devs worries the damage of Pistol in PvP, PvE suffers! I understand that the Devs wants to streamline the skills instead of separating them — if that is the case then design your PvE encounters and mobs where the damage gap is not underwhelming.

- Mobs with “Evades Ranged Attacks” – not even a duration, nor a buff, they just evades ranged attacks. This didn’t improve my experience, only ruins it because even a Boss Mob’s invulnerability has a duration or removable stack. This passive ability is beyond stupid especially these mobs uses Longbow, teleport, and stealth.

The Ugly:
- Staff Auto-attack – Revenant’s staff animation is way better than DD’s and it feels clunky because the staff visually implies that it can reach the target, but it misses because the range of the staff is shorter than it appears.

- Vertical Map – this map reminds me the horrible experience navigating Kaineng City in GW1. One way to improve this map is to properly use the elevation indicator to show vertical location. One up arrow means one level up, two up arrows mean two levels up, one down arrow means one level down, two down arrows means two level down, etc. Getting lost might be part of the fun but going down to ground level only to find out that the event is two levels up is not fun.

- Mastery Gated areas – at the end of an event, I’m suppose to get on a ledge where I need to use the mushroom for boost. Since I’ve mastered gliding, there’s no other way to get up there. The ugliest part is, the ‘copter that took us to the top stopped one level short and dropped up off next to a mushroom where we suppose to use it to get to the higher level — why in the world the ’copter didn’t just dropped us off the ledge where we’re supposed to be?

- Mob Glitches, I think – ok this is something I’m not sure about. There are time when I’m fighting a mob and they will simply disappear or become misplaced. Two things I know that can cause this; 1) the mob has stealth and teleport and 2) my party member pushed them back (kitten LB Rangers), however there are times where this thing happens when by myself. It looks like something I’ve experienced playing in WoW where I see a mob in front of me and I see their icon in the mini-map, yet when I get closer, they simply disappear — it’s an instancing issue that I think is also happening in GW2. Like I said, I’m not really sure what’s happening.

Conclusion:
- Obviously animations needs to improve.
- Damage needs to be rebalanced because while damage might be balance in PvP, it is horrible in PvE especially for P/P.
- P/P in PvE requires Ricochet. There’s no valid reason to make my PvE experience more harder than it is. P/P already sucks and I hope the re-iteration of this weapon set is way better and would arrive before release.
- Vertical maps needs a QoL improvement. A simple arrow indicator, similarly used on Waypoints, to be added to the event icon and commander icon will improve my player experience 10 folds.

That’s all I got from this weekend from DD — I played mostly with my Necro in PvP. There’s some other little thing, but those aren’t game breaking for me (for example, unskippable cut scene I’ve seen multiple times. I get it for the 4th time, Rithlock came from the Mist — let me skip it).

http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.

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Posted by: Kitono.9152

Kitono.9152

I really enjoyed playing a balanced condition thief over this last BWE. My build was Trickery/Acro/DD with weapons being dagger/dagger x2 with end on swap, carrion spvp set, rune of krait, sigils of agony.
Utilities were poison, shield block skill, that 60s evasive initiative gain skill, and the new elite skill. and signet healing skill.

I found that in duels I annoyed a lot of opponents because I was evading a lot between a mix of d/d #3 skill and dodge (basically the same thing) while stacking conditions.
UNFortunately I can’t say I was overpowered as there seems to be incredibly high condi removals and healing from the other classes.

I could survive against 2 people for a short amount of time but lost a lot of my escapability because I would usually dodge after using cloak and dagger. Unfortunately with the new lotus dodge, it breaks stealth.
I would think it might be overpowered to increase evasive on #3 d/d skill but I think it would be nice to not lose stealth when dodging. Problem is I really enjoy the extra healing that 3 hit damage gives on my healing signet. It’s kind of a trade off. I would say if anet moved that damage to condition damage it might be a fair tradeoff. Maybe anet can introduce a new condition that is fairly useless on its own but takes precedence on condition removal so like it is removed instead of a more valuable condition you’re trying to stack on the opponent. That’d be nice to help be atleast a little effective against condi removal bunker builds.

Also, beserker warriors consistently critting for 14k destroyed my balance spec despite all my dodging and evading. The ranger also is nearly unkillable in 1v1 duels with their very strong healing capabilities. I literally dueled this ranger for 30 minutes straight until my hands cramped up. I also lost consistently to the new engineer.

So in 1v1s I was fairly middle ground even as balance spec I was being completely owned by some classes where I faired decently balanced against others. In SPvP I seemed to have an easier time than duels.
I believe that endurance thief should actually steal an opponent’s endurance. Maybe set it to 25 endurance + whatever the opponent has up to 50 (so maximum 75)
I think 1 evasion every 3 seconds for a grandmaster trait is not good enough, maybe bumping it down to 2 second cooldown would be a bit more balanced against the rest.
I also agree that the new elite is too difficult to fully complete. I’d give up the 2 second daze for maybe a stun or just add a root component to the daze. or maybe start with the knock up into the air.
Lastly, I think it’s time to bring Dire gear into SPvP as condition damage still seems to be generally underwhelming still.

I didn’t so much enjoy that I had to crit in order to proc weakness, It seems like the 1st line of traits don’t generally help condi builds very much.
I hope this feedback helps.

Nighthound – Thief

(edited by Kitono.9152)

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Posted by: Taellan.3654

Taellan.3654

I played a shadow medic this weekend (AC/SA/DD; couldn’t give up the team support of SA), and I had a blast. Stuck to Silverwastes and Verdant Brink. Dash works great with the build, getting me to downed players or away from enemies quickly. With the swiftness buff, I was speeding all over the place. So much fun! Took forever to kill stuff, though, compared to other players/professions. So other than the rezzing I did, which had little to do with daredevil, I don’t feel like I brought much to fights.

What I like:
— Overall concept of staff wielding brawler is awesome! So thank you!
— Glad the extra dodge is back! It was one of the reasons I main a thief. And I love the new dodge options in the GM traits. Dash is my favorite right now, but I see huge potential for the other two. Although I did like DeathBlossom 2.0 better from the last beta.
— I see a couple of different build ideas that look like fun (although probably not meta). Tried a CS/TR/DD gunslinger last beta that was awesome as well, and that was before the pistol buffs.
Despite the animation issues and a few areas I think the spec is lacking, Daredevil is by far my favorite elite spec.

What I wish:
—At one point I gave up the condi cleanse master trait for the one that causes Pulmonary Impact on interrupt. Since I was using a build that was low on crit chance, it seemed like a good way to get in extra damage while stopping damage coming at me. I’ve never focused attacks on interrupting before, so it was a fun challenge. However, I feel like the damage from PI wasn’t enough to justify the trouble it takes to get it (giving up condi clear trait + replacing weapon/utility skills that could cause/mitigate more damage with ones that interrupt). I could do waaaay more damage with the crit-able, spammable weapon skills. I kinda see why it doesn’t crit, but could we get a base damage buff on this one, please? Or maybe a boon or something?

— A projectile reflecting 3rd auto attack that requires melee range and perfect timing seems a bit impossible to use effectively. Could this be changed to confusion or daze instead?

— A major theme of the thief, and especially Daredevil, is mobility. We’re supposed to be fast, we have wings on our boots! Why don’t we have more access to quickness? And where is the superspeed?

— After playing my beta thief for hours, meticulously crafting a build that would have some survivability and still be useful, I tried scrapper (still in celestial gear), and she was melting enemies and sustaining party members easily, and I was just brainlessly button smashing the moment skills came off cooldown. I don’t even know what half of the skills did, and I didn’t have to. There was so much AoE. So much damage AND party support. I don’t want thief to be THAT easy, but I don’t see why a bit more AoE or team support on thief is such a bad thing. I kinda feel like playing thief is restricted to only high damage builds due to squishiness (kill it quickly or get away before you die), and I was hoping Daredevil would bring more (lots more) stability and control to the class so we could stay in fights longer and contribute more than just burst damage. Instead, we’re just better at running away. :/

—I love using the finishers, but I wish I had more access to fields myself (coughdarkfieldonStaff4cough).

— I probably could have swapped out acro for any of the other specs and not felt any great loss. I’m glad we got the extra dodge back, but it sucks that it had to make acro basically obsolete.

Final thoughts:
I had more to say, but most of it has been covered by others already.

I really do love daredevil. Many of the issues mentioned above come from core thief problems and not the E spec itself, although Daredevil seems to be a step closer to fixing that.

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Posted by: Maugetarr.6823

Maugetarr.6823

An idea for staff attacks since they seem a little lackluster.

Autochain: Fine as is

#2: A powerful hit that doesn’t move you but causes weakness. Whirl finisher. Use the warrior GS burst attack (arcing slice)

#3: Just put warrior’s GS #3 attack here that breaks immobilize, cripples, and evades. That would give staff the ability to retreat, reposition, or attack depending on what’s needed. There seems to be a lot of disagreement about the direction of the forced movement, so just let the player choose.

#4: Make it a conic attack like warrior’s hammer shock with a 2 second dark or smoke field afterwards.

#5: Since the AoE hit seems relatively small, make it a half second leap, so it’s still dodgeable, but you can hit a moving target.

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Posted by: Auesis.7301

Auesis.7301

Some updates on my previous thoughts and how they have evolved from BWE2:

Animations

Even with placeholders, everything is a lot smoother. I don’t really care about the idle or running animation, honestly. Everything else in this specialisation needs priority over just looks.

Weakening Charge

Seems perfect now.

Debilitating Arc

After playing with this for some time, I feel like this puts you out of place too often when using it the way it’s meant to be used. Maybe this could be a directional skill like Whirlwind on Warrior GS? That or you could have a secondary follow-up skill like Flanking Strike -> Larcenous Strike to close the gap that you create and can’t really close in any good way other than Vault, which is expensive.

Dust Strike

Even with a low cast time, this is still a filler skill that I will never use proactively. It desperately needs to be a circular AoE around the user with some kind of field (Dark or Smoke) to be worth using over other skills.

Physicals

Channeled Vigor will be a fantastic heal at 0.75s. Even with increased damage on Fist Flurry/Palm Strike, it’s still very, very difficult to land all hits of Fist Flurry to be rewarded with Palm Strike. I feel like, in order to make this a worthy contender for a slot on your bar, the requirement for Palm Strike should be the final hit instead of all 5. That, or Pulmonary Impact should be able to crit (on Palm Strike only).

Bandit’s Defense is still awkward when it locks you in place after a block. I feel like Reflexive Strike needs to be a rollover skill like Revenant Sword 4 or Chronomancer’s Shield Phantasm and Bandit’s Defense can be a full duration block.

Evasive Empowerment

It’s good now, but in practise 2 seconds is just short of getting good mileage. I would suggest a bump to 3 seconds.

Vault

Definitely needs to evade, but the cost needs to stay at 5. The distance bug has been acknowledged, but I would still say that maybe an increase to 800 would allow more versatility with the set (that puts it in line with Jump Shot).

Grandmasters

I’m inclined to agree with the general sentiment, despite thinking otherwise early on. After seeing the kind of power that other Elite Specialisations are bringing in to the game, I believe that the 3 dodge types need to be selectable outside of the Grandmaster slot and then we can have GM-worthy traits in their place. That, or all the other Elite Specialisations need to be toned down a little.

I respect the concern for balance, but it seems like none of the other devs do.

I’m not a balance expert, but I imagine there are some good options like the old Power of Inertia (Might on dodge roll or perhaps on evade for a Daredevil GM?), some kind of bonus effect for activating Leap or Whirl finishers, things like that? Just throwing suggestions out there, because I feel like a proper choice of GM will give a much-needed edge against the hideousness that is Scrapper, Chronomancer etc.

Thanks for the hard work so far!

Gnome Child [Gc]
Resident Thief

(edited by Auesis.7301)

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Posted by: Eleandra.4859

Eleandra.4859

Hey guys,
check that out:

Thiefs ask for better Daredevil Staff animations since BWE2 and no answer from Karl in regards to this.

Now check out the Druid BWE3 thread:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Beta-Weekend-Druid-Feedback-Thread/page/13#post5575742

Answer from “Irenio CalmonHuang” after the idle animation was critizied because it looked like holding a hammer.

I really respect the people who are the warning voice against the winers and flamers (as I have become by the blatant lying and inconsistent bullkitten that has been fed to us) but I really cannot see ANYTHING that would make this right apart from Daredevil also getting a shiny new set of staff animations.

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Posted by: Just Jeff.6235

Just Jeff.6235

Bound dodge could be nice if it was ground targeted… Also the Monkey King tonic idea sounds great for fixing up some DD animations.

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Posted by: Bllade.1029

Bllade.1029

tl;dr

Staff feels very slow; initiative cost/benefit ratio seems too high. Staff weapon skills utility feels like it needs to be revamped.

Dodges feel better, still need work as far as improving utility.

GM traits still feel very under powered; Still in favor of removing dodges from GM traits.

Sustain traits in Daredevil trait line still very weak.

[VLK] – No one ever complains about bad Thieves, they die.

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

So,

After reading this, thread, the impression I got is that people mainly liked the DrD. With minor improvements that can be done later, overall people seem pleased.

Interesting…

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Posted by: Driften.8716

Driften.8716

I figured something out that annoys me pretty much a lot:

When I do Bandit’s Defence and someone hits me in melee with some kind of rapid attacks, it will try to do the knockdown. But instead I die because enemies spam auto attack or some other attacks during that window that it will try to knockdown the opponent.

For example when a warrior does Whirlwind, I still get hit by the whole thing (aside the first strike), so that’s pretty annoying. You might say it’s part of the skill and maybe that’s true, but it really doesn’t help in group fights where people are focussing on you.

Maybe change this to make the knockdown a flipover that you can trigger? And increase the block to 2 seconds?

I have been saying this for a while. The 1 sec block just leaves you open. I like the skill but as you said anything chained be prepared to take damage while you are in mid animation. This can also be said when you try to say block a dragon’s fire breath or another elite mob’s attack. If it chains it will just block the first blow. If they absorb your round house knock down (stacks of CC resist) you will continue to take dmg.

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Posted by: sirjarros.4107

sirjarros.4107

Just a couple things to wish for with Daredevil:

- Please revert bound dodge back to leap finisher! It is much more useful as a leap finisher for those of us using x/p or even staff. It’s a great way to apply stealth and without it x/p is back to only being able to stealth when swapping to short bow..

Dude, it is a leap finisher, the text’s only wrong.

Actually, it IS a blast finisher and Karl has commented in the past the the blast on leaving a field is currently broken and being worked on. Once they fix that, Bound will be a true blast finisher and you’ll be able to do all your stealthy stuff off of pistol #5 and such. Fear not!

Now, I wish Vault was a blast finisher too. Then we’d really be cookin in terms of group utility and more!

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Posted by: Sir Vincent III.1286

Sir Vincent III.1286

So,

After reading this, thread, the impression I got is that people mainly liked the DrD. With minor improvements that can be done later, overall people seem pleased.

Interesting…

Within the context of the profession, yes, it seems like people are pleased. That’s usually the reaction after chopping down the tree and uprooting it — a tiny green sprout coming out of the ground will no doubt make a lot of people happy.

However, outside the profession shows a lot of problem for DD.

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Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
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Posted by: Driften.8716

Driften.8716

Hey guys,
check that out:

Thiefs ask for better Daredevil Staff animations since BWE2 and no answer from Karl in regards to this.

Now check out the Druid BWE3 thread:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Beta-Weekend-Druid-Feedback-Thread/page/13#post5575742

Answer from “Irenio CalmonHuang” after the idle animation was critizied because it looked like holding a hammer.

I really respect the people who are the warning voice against the winers and flamers (as I have become by the blatant lying and inconsistent bullkitten that has been fed to us) but I really cannot see ANYTHING that would make this right apart from Daredevil also getting a shiny new set of staff animations.

After taking a look at the post I will have to say it does feel like someone kicked thieves in the nuts and told us that our opinions don’t matter. With that said I personally didn’t care much about the staff animations as I will rarely use it. It doesn’t bring much to the table as other weapon sets have.

Though I will say they will probably only look at the idle and holding animations as a druid does not swing it like a bat. That is all Druids need so all else is off the table. I have little to no expectations that the attack animations will be re-worked (for the thief side anyway).

I think at this point it is 18 days till HoT releases and Dare Devil seems to be at about 50% completion compared to all the other elites. Karl has bigger fish to fry than staff animations that is clear. Progress is being made but I feel like the big questions and feedback have not been addressed.