Guild Wars 2

Guys please. Why are you being so discriminate? So if ranger hits you from 1500 range, combat has started for you? Right? The fact that thief cant hit you from 1500 range does not mean you can ignore him until he is already on your back!
Thief cannon be stealthed permanently from over 3k view range to 900 of his steal. So if you are hit by mug > cnd > backstab that means that either 1) very bad culling issues and you should go to another forum 2) you completely ignore your surroundings and deserve to die with a most swift and exemplary to others death.
Do you know what dodge is for? Congratulations, you are one of 99% of people that do. Sadly, only 5-10% of those who actually know what dodge is for use it for exactly that purpose. You don’t dodge when you take damage. You dodge to NOT take damage. Dodge is not a gap closer, gap maker, interrupt. 90% of people start dodging when they already done for. I switch targets already, and they just start dodging. I shoot cluster bombs from 900 range just because it makes half of people waste half of the endurance bar instantly.
Seriously. Thief that dies from random things must overcome 2k+ range in open field to get a CHANCE to attack you. And you start to care only when he is already in melee.

Its bad because I eat those thieves alive whit ease.You would too.You just don’t have time to spare from all that whining.Just like this ranger.
http://youtu.be/ZZMl4S4C7Sk
Thieves are very distinct proffesions.Learn how to counter them .
You don’t even have an argument to why thieves are OP in the first place because you have no clue about the class. You just whine like a ..well thats sexist.

Oh please, guys.
6k-3k-3k of almost instant damage on a full toughness character is out of any balance. I know that you guys want to keep getting easy kills and easy wins with your broken profession, but it comes a time when things have to be fixed, live with that.

The time you need to get better at your profession as you are suggesting to everyone else is coming.

Let me get it straight for you.I am Not playing a BS thief and I couldn’t care less if they nerf it or not.In fact if they do they will probaly buff some other type of builds which is in my interest but YOU’RE WRONG.After that 12k combo of yours that Thief has nothing left.He’s burned almost all his utilities and half the initiative and the elite skill.He maybe has some initiative left for some HS’s.While you can heal at least half of the ammount of what he trew at you.That thief wont put a dent on a class like the Warrior or Necro’s that have up to freakin 30k HP ! Thats OP to you?
As if you’d need such a thing as defences or HP to counter thief.Their move is so predictible even whit half the brain of a mentaly kitten dolyak could negate it.1 single and precise dodge or a stun break is enough to destroy their combo and render them completly helpless.1 CC and he’s dead.Its not us who needs to get better at our proffesion ,ITS YOU.

I’ll definitely be checking this thread out the moment Anet ‘adjusts’ Thieves, LOL. Wonder how many Thief players will stick with the class…

He’ll still have 3 seconds of quickness, a utility and half his initiative. That’s decent amount to finish someone off. 1cc and he’s dead? Last I checked, thieves can break stun too. And once again, if they have 30k hp, they’re a bunker. Of course a bunker will survive, they sacrifice all their damage to do that. Besides, they’re waiting in line for the nerf hammer too.
P.S. You can’t dodge steal.

Awe.1096:

So pretty much you are saying that everyone should be sporting a full bunker build from the sole reason that there thieves in this game? My playstyle is an extremely careful approach. I play a ranged class and to be honest I die rarely becouse I tend to avoid putting myself in the harms way. Of course this also means less effective offense since I am not going to risk myself into chasing someone when I do not feel confident about it. Some can call this a chicken playstyle, I say better safe than sorry. In sPvP I tend to die from different things becouse area is very confined and sometimes its just either you or them. But for example in WvW I would say that around 90% of all my deaths is when I get jumped by the thief. The only scenario when, if executed properly by a thief, a have absolutely no response to. People telling me to L2P when I just get wtfstomped in 2 seconds by an unknown entity which appears out from stealth when I am already either dead or lingering at 10% are just thief players who are affraid that ANet will nerf their ability to dominate other people and feel as superior human beings becouse of that.

Perfect example of the whining nerf baddie. I specifically informed how a thief won’t initiate in stealth because of revealed and told him one example of countering and he just retorts how he shouldn’t have to Bunker to combat against an enemy.

News flash, it’s called adapting to a situation. If you glass cannon with no stun breakers,invulns, or dodging,guess what? You’re going to get rocked.

Men. I run P/P (worst thief weapon combination) purest glass cannon build that focuses solely on pinning down and destroying kittens. Once every 60 seconds I can do near impossible to get out of RANGED 20k damage in little over 1 second on fatties. My build has far less requirements, does not rely on stealth, has higher survivability due to range, has built-in interrupt and blind.
I don’t even need to move. Only thing I need to time is when to press immobile venom.
My build is so far superior and easier than backstab one that most of them mug to me already downed for a quick stomp with my quickness still on.
Yet, for some reason noone is crying NERF DEM PISTOLS. Actually, 90% of people are sure that P/P is weak and needs buffs.
Now tell me again, why are you all so discriminate?
Answer: because it is easier to post here than to learn

Last time I checked CC didn’t consist only in stuns.You just don’t understand that after the thief used his burst he has nothing left.A few HS that can be easily avoided.If that guy heals its over for the thief.And that doesn’t mean you need to be a bunker to beat him but if you’re running a glass cannon build yourself you asumed those risks upon yourself.Its your responsability to look around and not be taken by surprise.Like I said BS bursts are so predictible which makes them easy to counter.

thats BS ive got full berserker exotics w 6pc superior fire rune & my numbers dont look like that, thats gotta be with a super super glass cannon spec

“has nothing left” I’ve already explained that its not nothing, especially the quickness. If you insist that’s 7 initiative and 3sec quickness, heal and a utility is nothing, then I guess there’s no use in trying to get through to you. You also have more skills than heartseeker left, although its hard to miss with it when you’re right next to the enemy. No one said they were running glass either and “its over” should mean its time to run away if that thief knows when to give up (and a good glass roamer should.)
Just because it can be countered doesn’t mean its as weak/balanced as you seem to think it is.
Maybe you should stop telling others to learn their class and about thieves until you at least learn your own skills.

Aha..haha
quickness you say? Say buh bye to dodge.Then 1 knockdown buh bye quickness , buhbye last utility skill.If you know how to do your fights ,no thief can harm you.After you made him burn all his resources in the first seconds of the fight he’s all yours.

NightyNight.1823:

Aha..haha
quickness you say? Say buh bye to dodge.Then 1 knockdown buh bye quickness , buhbye last utility skill.If you know how to do your fights ,no thief can harm you.After you made him burn all his resources in the first seconds of the fight he’s all yours.

So basically, Thieves should be a free kill to a good player 100% of the time? Come on man, stop playing up like your class isn’t crazy good at what it does.

All it takes is 1 knockdown to destroy you and you say thats an effective build ?I wont say class because I play a different build myself and I rarely have any problems against BS thieves.I do mess up somethimes and die but I win most of the times.So Yes , a good player should be able to win every single time if he doesn’t mess up.Considering both are equaly skilled.
And Yes thieves are realy good at taking people ,who has no clue at what they’re doing , down.
OP? no.

@NightyNight

well, not everyone has a knockdown ability. I typically dodge roll immediately and/or Decoy and reset the fight.I pretty much always dodge, as it evades damage (obviously), and allows me to reposition so I can set up the battlefield. And I disagree, Thieves are a bit out of hand…

All classes have escape abilities ,CC’s ,tricks what ever.All of them work just as good.

Nighty, knowckdown counts as a stun for stun breakers. Pretty much all cc can be taken care of by roll for initiative or withdraw, of course that means you’ll have to escape since you lost the surprise attack, but you can still avoid dying easily. Also, your swap to shortbow will give back some endurance for dodge, despite having used haste. The quickness will also speed up your shooting animation for warp. More importantly, that utility isn’t meant for fighting, its solely for escaping quickly, you don’t use it and stick around.

Guys what do you think about this kind of a nerf: moving hidden killer trait (100% crit chance in stealth) into a shadow arts last tier?
This will solve many problems:
1) backstabs will either not crit with 100% chance or people will have to sacrifice power/crit damage for it, and non-glass build will not suffer bacause they dont go here anyway
2) shadow arts trait line will get buffed and will result in even more thieves speccing out of glass cannon backstabs

Perhaps if there are enough people willing to bet on this, we could draw a-net’s attention to this kind of soft/preliminary fix if they have not thought of it already

I’ve said this in lot of other threads aswell.Don’t let them escape.You are capable of gaining of them too.Thieves might have shadow step to close gaps and escape but you have swiftness and movement skills.Its the same thing.
Cripple is your best friend.

people saying backstab is op are kittenin dumb yea it was op with the old signet with new signet its no where near op on a full glass cannon with 900 toughness the most ive been hit for is 8k from backstab 11-12 k from whole combo maybe 15 if the guy is lucky enough to manage a cnd mug even tho you can cast cnd before mug it still dosnt work 100% everytime i dont even play a traditional bs thief i play a stealth dps thief traited and geared for passive haste with all my utilities being stealth skills and i own regular bs thief bs thief uses mug on me i hit q i instantly recover my conditions because of my trait where in stealth i lose conditions so i can move and the bs thief allready lost all his burst next thing you know i bs him for 5 6 k without using any buffs stealth again hit him for another 5-6k then 1 or 2 heartseekers and hes dead backstab thief is so easy to counter nerfing backstab would just make any other build that incoporates backstabs moot because wed have no damage backstab is fine as it is theirs nothing op about it the only thing i see being op about it is the fact you can use signet if power with it maybe just remove the ability to use signet of power with stealth attacks that way you could use it with other combos but you wouldnt be able to make your backstab op damage or better yet just have it so it dosnt work with bs other then that bs theifs are fine theyre only good for killing bad players now but if you nerf backstab damage anymore you will destroy my stealth build you will destroy many other builds that incoporate bs as a main burst spike in their combo’s all youll have left is thiefs helicoptering with death blossom hoping there bleed is the last tick in order to get a kill i know for one if i cant play my thief the way i want ill just reroll an op shatter mes or a rifle warrior that hides behind lines and deals 20k damage every 3 seconds

I don’t see how a nerf on BS would affect the other builds.In fact the other builds will most likely get a buff if that happens.But I realy don’t see the reason to nerf BS builds even more. Its realy not that good.To nerf it more just because people are generaly slow would make the game a joke.

Guys, please provide feedback on suggestion (my post 630394 on this page) as a soft temporary/preliminary fix/buff to this issue

There will never be a satisfactory nerf for some baddies. No matter how badly they nerf another class, baddies will, more often than not, be baddies.

It’s not the same, some movement skills are just flat out better than others.
That extra speed from swiftness only helps so much, unless you happen to be an ele with RTL to chase, its not really going to help that much. Shadowstep skills give them a 2400 gap start in 1/2 a sec and cripple,chill,immobilization is taken care of by withdraw or the stun breaker, remember?
And since when is .25~.5sec generally slow? Ele s/d burst took an entire 4 seconds, and it got nerfed to the ground.

Keep applying.They surely can’t witdraw forever.And when I said generaly slow I meant generaly slow.Rather not use slow minded.
This tread is realy hilarious because BS doesn’t deserve that much attention:))For now most of the thives play BS build but wait till thats out of the picture .Just like Rouchneck said.

Ichishi.9613:

Thief cannon be stealthed permanently from over 3k view range to 900 of his steal.

Actually they can:
Shadow Refuge → Venom → Signet → Infiltrator’s Arrow → Shadowstep, Backstab combo for ~16k against medium armored targets → Shadow Return

16k huh ? I’d love to have those numbers when I do sPvP.The question is not if its possible its how viable it is.

Reapply it? With 2400+ distance between the two? You’re really overestimating snares here. And I do reach 13~17k pretty easily in sPvP.

First , BS thief wont use Witdraw they will use Hide in Shadows.Any BS thief in the right mind will use that because theres no way you can outrun conditions.
Second , do I have to go over every single mobility skill that the classes have to close gaps ?Ranged weapons ,criples , imobilise.You have all those options start using them.You can aply them faster than he can cure or escape.Warriors have that 5 slot skill that can run towards you .The eles can ride the lighnings.Mesmers can teleport ..I could go on.Don’t make up excuses and surely don’t blame it on thief.He has easier time escaping.Yes , he’s supposed to.He hits and runs.Thats what he does but it doesn’t make it imposible for you to catch him.For all that thieves still don’t deserve a nerf.Maybe you could use a buff instead but now thats different.
And Id love to fight the people you’re fighting in sPvP.

Navzar.2938:

knockdown counts as a stun for stun breakers. Pretty much all cc can be taken care of by roll for initiative or withdraw

Here we go again, talking about thieves like they have a lot more skill slots than any other class. A pure bs glass cannon thief would not have roll for initative on their skill bar, they will have haste, sin sig and devourer venom. Therefore, they don’t even have a stun breaker. You also mentioned withdraw, which they might have as their heal skill, but FYI, its not a stun breaker, in fact here’s, the description from the wiki

Roll backward while healing and evade attacks. Cures immobilized, chilled, and crippled.
Healing: 3,960

So instead of just listing out skills that sound like they work, look it up before posting misleading information about our class.

How often does Dark Pact and spectral grasp catch you as a thief?

gamefreak.5673:

How often does Dark Pact and spectral grasp catch you as a thief?

That’s because those 2 skills don’t hit anything unless the target is standing completely still anyway, I swear, these complaints would lessen if Anet fixed the bugs and useless traits/skills first instead of discussing balance.

FrozenLuv.6017:

Navzar.2938:

knockdown counts as a stun for stun breakers. Pretty much all cc can be taken care of by roll for initiative or withdraw

Here we go again, talking about thieves like they have a lot more skill slots than any other class. A pure bs glass cannon thief would not have roll for initative on their skill bar, they will have haste, sin sig and devourer venom. Therefore, they don’t even have a stun breaker. You also mentioned withdraw, which they might have as their heal skill, but FYI, its not a stun breaker, in fact here’s, the description from the wiki

Roll backward while healing and evade attacks. Cures immobilized, chilled, and crippled.
Healing: 3,960

So instead of just listing out skills that sound like they work, look it up before posting misleading information about our class.

I don’t use devourer venom that’s why. Builds are allowed to be altered. Ergo, I have enough slots.
So try to think outside of the copy/paste build. We don’t all use the exact same bar.

@crewthief
I would stick with this class til the end of time. They can nerf thieves to oblivion but I will still be here because unlike many of the people on this forum, I can learn, I can adapt, I am a Thief. Who’s with me?!?!?

FrozenLuv.6017:

gamefreak.5673:

How often does Dark Pact and spectral grasp catch you as a thief?

That’s because those 2 skills don’t hit anything unless the target is standing completely still anyway, I swear, these complaints would lessen if Anet fixed the bugs and useless traits/skills first instead of discussing balance.

Sorry it was meant to address the guy above me, but I agree so many complaints would stop coming up if things worked right. Like the rendering issue would solve mine about thief for my necro because then I could actually fight back quicker since i need a target for most of my skills to work on my condition build.

You have 1 utility skill against a char whit the bar full of them.Who can catch who now.

Navzar.2938:

I don’t use devourer venom that’s why. Builds are allowed to be altered. Ergo, I have enough slots.
So try to think outside of the copy/paste build. We don’t all use the exact same bar.

So you use a more survivable version of the bs build, kudos to you. But you’re 1 out of many.

It’s more mobile, meaning slightly more survivability, and/or you can do another CnD warp, though slightly weaker, using shadowstep.
It doesn’t take much to change a skill, I doubt so many people aren’t trying their own version.
As ArchNemesis mentioned earlier, you’ll get owned if your glass without a stun breaker. So I brought one.
Edit: and nighty, your bar is 3 skills less, but you still have your full mobility. Also, its one utility and a heal. The first thing most people do is try to get some space to heal, you can usually finish them off, if you don’t think you can, that’s where you weapon swap and warp out of there.

FrozenLuv.6017:

Here we go again, talking about thieves like they have a lot more skill slots than any other class. A pure bs glass cannon thief would not have roll for initative on their skill bar, they will have haste, sin sig and devourer venom. Therefore, they don’t even have a stun breaker.

That’s what bad players run, like the ones who say “if the target survives the combo the Thief is dead”.

NightyNight.1823:

You have 1 utility skill against a char whit the bar full of them.Who can catch who now.

If the target has all utility left it means they haven’t used their stun breaker and thus have lost about 16k of their hit points; not really a bad initial situation for a Thief.

You think?you think wrong.Its not only Utility skills ..You forget about the Weapon skills ,Dodge ,Elite skills.Those are a lot of variables.A lot of options.Not to mention that you can completly negate all that combo if you actualy pay attention to whats happening around you.The moment they pop out Assasin’s signet you know whats comming.From there its too easy.

A lot of people don’t bring stun breakers, people forget that with 100b with frenzy is a 1.75 second attack, the knockdown from bull’s rush and that 100b is a PBAOE attack, finish that off with an eviscerate with a simple weapon switch and you have dealt a huge amount of damage in about 2 seconds. People complain that 100b does not hit very hard compared to backstab, but with buffs which warriors can easily acquire (Even without the need of traiting) they can deal massive amounts of damage, just check the screen shot of 100b hitting for 28k on page 10.

Exactly, we also have those weapon skills and dodge (from sigil of endurance on our bow). That’s why the 3 skills we used aren’t going to mean we’re going to lose just because they survived.
And once again, you’re assuming that the thief is in plain sight coming right at you, which is usually a bad way to do things, there are obstacles everywhere.
You also can’t completely negate it, mug will always hit, CnD is almost guaranteed too, and unless you pop a shield or endure pain, but most people won’t carry a stun breaker as well as an invulnerability skill.
Elite skills not so much a problem, they usually take a decent chunk of time to activate, and then we just run away once we see them, they definitely give them an edge in normal fighting, but not a way to stop us from running unless its a ranger or mesmer.
Bottom line? We have variables and options too, Thieves not using them doesn’t mean the skills are weaker, it means they have more to lean. Isn’t that what you’ve been saying the whole time?
P.S. You pop venom and signet before you even see them, by the time the effect is up, the cd nearly is too.

As for warriors, people do complain about them, just not as much anymore. It’s mainly because they combo takes longer and is easier to see coming/dodge. They can’t warp and bull’s doesn’t even need a stun breaker to avoid. Their burst will probably be nerfed as well anyway.

Yes i can promise you , you will loose if you miss that comboEven if you do pull that combo you will still loose.And you can’t run around whit signet and venom up.The activation is double than the duration.And 1800 range is nothing whit those 2 infiltrator’s arrow.A player that knows what to do can always gain on you.And If i pop my thieves guild you wont be running anywhere trust me.And whit my Blinds good luck hitting that back stab.BS’ers are so helpless I can only lough out loud.And yet people still have problems whit them..HOW?

Venom effect duration is 2/3 its recharge, traited that’s only a 6 second difference. Signet also lasts 20sec. so I can pop them well before I go into battle. And if it lost so easily no one would use them, and it wouldn’t be confirmed for rework You’re obviously just to pro for the rest of us.
(its more than 1800, I use shadowstep)

ShadowStep?You mean the one on cooldown? You wont be running anywhere out of my Infiltrator’s strike. And you waste a good trait for something as useless as 20% venom recharge ? well good for you and good luck whit that.
I’m still waiting for someone to explain me whats OP about a BS thief.
Ohh and ye signet’s duration is 20 seconds and its cooldown is 45 seconds.So am sure you’ll be running whit that up.

Shadow step turns into shadow return for the next 10sec. and I already did explain, its the 14k burst in>.5sec, supplemented by the high mobility that allows fairly easy escapes in case of failures.

I use 20% less cd is on the signet too.

Only against people who have no clue whats happening.The same for those kills you’re getting.All I can say good luck whit that pro build yours whit 20% signet recharge.

It’s WoW rogues all over again, we’ll get nerfed to the ground thanks to a plethora of uninformed terrible players and be useless for many months but the skilled ones will still own and all will watch in envy, your tears are delish~

To be fair, ALL classes need burst toned down. Burst should come from a coordination of attacks by multiple team mates, not from one person. And haste needs to be removed from the game seriously who’s idea WAS that?

What is the point? Some ppl want backstab build nerfed and if ANet nerf it all thief will find another build to annoying ppl, because a thief without annoying build isn’t a thief, is a cannon fodder.

If they nerf backstab all go for semi-perma stealth build with crazy regeneration and to avoid all damage, so don’t complain about backstab thief, there are so many other build ANet can buff (after nerf backstab) that u DON’T want.

I have a lvl80 ele that have toughness Once i see that shadow refuge appear I just knock him out the circle 3 sec the thief is dead. Just got to learn how to knock them down or stun them right time. I could make any class I could still kill a Thief sample as that.