Guild Wars 2

Testing the Thief for this Beta left me very skeptical of the outcome of the Thief in general. Almost as if, i was better off not playing.

For WvW and PvP it was truly a challenge to take on a Reaper. When they are not in shourd, it’s an easy kill. Easier than oridinary core builds I would even add, but in reaper shroud it felt like playing Ninja Gaiden. Dead instantly with the wrong move.

S/D with DD is amazing tho, it went really smooth for me.

As for PvE, I felt useless af. A few interrupts here an there, and that’s it. While Revenant is just giving everybody 15-16 of stacks passively I mean.. kitten .

I hope you guys mentioned the pressing need to tackle the core traits because, once again The Daredevil left me very doubtful of this profession’s future.

Reapers were actually pretty easy for me. Just had to apply weakness and wear him down, interrupt his heal, etc. And I think the opposite. Looking pretty positively toward what the spec will be like at launch.

Pretty sure you were fighting bad players if you were beating reapers with just weakness spam. After looking at your montage in another topic i’m assuming you’re on JadeQ. As a YB roamer i can confirm we have plenty of bad players \o/

Daredevil is a no go for me I’ll hang up the thief coat and play Rev for HoT. Hopefully another future thief elite spec is more appealing and not made up of re-used assets.

yeah beta just confirmed for me that thief class is undesired and unpleasant chore for dev team ~
staff is too slow, bad animations, no utility, dmg is meh
phys skills are ok but so clunky to use and are actually pretty bugged
i don’t even want to start on drd GM traits….
overall spec is lackluster (for pvp) imo

You guys do realize that daredevil isn’t a requirement right? It is funny how some people expect the elite specs to be important in all 3 game modes.

Make a spec that is better suited for your playstyle if dare devil isn’t to your liking.

style.6173:

You guys do realize that daredevil isn’t a requirement right? It is funny how some people expect the elite specs to be important in all 3 game modes.

Make a spec that is better suited for your playstyle if dare devil isn’t to your liking.

Acro says hi.

Everything about Daredevil feels like an internal first pass that never should have seen the light of day: recycled placeholder animations that feel inappropriate, badly placed traits (and having the GM slot taken up by our “new mechanic”), physical skills costing initiative, long and clunky startup/aftercast delays making it impossible for dodges and staff animations to flow with the rest of our kit…

Between the unaddressed core issues with Thief and the unpolished nature of a lot of what was seen of Daredevil so far, I’m not feeling especially optimistic right now. At the least, they need to refine everything we’ve seen so far and make it smooth as hell. The current state of Daredevil is simply not acceptable.

Amante.8109:

Everything about Daredevil feels like an internal first pass that never should have seen the light of day: recycled placeholder animations that feel inappropriate, badly placed traits (and having the GM slot taken up by our “new mechanic”), physical skills costing initiative, long and clunky startup/aftercast delays making it impossible for dodges and staff animations to flow with the rest of our kit…

Between the unaddressed core issues with Thief and the unpolished nature of a lot of what was seen of Daredevil so far, I’m not feeling especially optimistic right now. At the least, they need to refine everything we’ve seen so far and make it smooth as hell. The current state of Daredevil is simply not acceptable.

I dont see it that negativ, but you are pretty much on point.

alchemyst.2165:

Reapers were actually pretty easy for me. Just had to apply weakness and wear him down, interrupt his heal, etc. And I think the opposite. Looking pretty positively toward what the spec will be like at launch.

Yeah i don’t know how skilled you are mate, but Reapers GS VS Daredevil Staff is really fight where you have almost no hopes of winning.

When I consider how the Rev started and where it is in the most recent beta, I have confidence they will make good on Daredevil.

Kumion.7580:

When I consider how the Rev started and where it is in the most recent beta, I have confidence they will make good on Daredevil.

Haha lulz so funny.

Our issue isn’t numbers, it’s application. With my damage numbers, I was using the utilities and applying 8 (ID) to 13 (Takedown)k damage. It’s just sticking to someone long and hard enough that your skills connect because a lot of the time flurry went on cd, daggers got obstructed, takedown got set on cooldown…. I’d suggest a cripple on Takedown elite and on Fist flurry, that does NOTHING towards damage but does increase reliability. Oh and if the elite was ~intended~ to kill people below 10% hp without downing them, that’s fantastic. If it was a bug, leave it. We need this very much.

If they also clean the after-casts, and the pre-cast issues, then finish with making dodges dodge instead of dodges cast (they were coded as skills, you probably noticed too) then this spec is very reliable. I’d even say powerful.

Last thing, I agree on Kumion. I played Rev this beta weekend and I had to stop with how disgusting I felt. If I made a spec with a purpose, NOTHING stopped that purpose. 100-0 assassinations, condi removal and pressure, unkillable nature, team support. If they can clean an entire spec AND profession up to that kind of standard, then DD should work. On top of that, not any single team will work alone because of how much they put into this expansion. As a company, it isn’t a good idea to let ANY part of a new product become unreliable or outdated upon release. Daredevil will work, and with luck they will read our feedback.

Just my 2 cents of course.

Kocoff.7582:

alchemyst.2165:

Reapers were actually pretty easy for me. Just had to apply weakness and wear him down, interrupt his heal, etc. And I think the opposite. Looking pretty positively toward what the spec will be like at launch.

Yeah i don’t know how skilled you are mate, but Reapers GS VS Daredevil Staff is really fight where you have almost no hopes of winning.

Well, I don’t know then. I guess to be fair I only fought a couple of reapers, haven’t seen a really good one but then again nobody has had much time to learn anything. But I still hold true to my original statement, looking at it positively. The traitline itself isn’t bad, it’s just some of the staff skills and dodge anims.

Edit: Plus, right now you can tell that things are unfinished. I think they’ll definitely polish things up and improve things with all the feedback we’ve been giving.

Amante.8109:

Everything about Daredevil feels like an internal first pass that never should have seen the light of day: recycled placeholder animations that feel inappropriate, badly placed traits (and having the GM slot taken up by our “new mechanic”), physical skills costing initiative, long and clunky startup/aftercast delays making it impossible for dodges and staff animations to flow with the rest of our kit…

Between the unaddressed core issues with Thief and the unpolished nature of a lot of what was seen of Daredevil so far, I’m not feeling especially optimistic right now. At the least, they need to refine everything we’ve seen so far and make it smooth as hell. The current state of Daredevil is simply not acceptable.

Well I consider that a good thing, it means that the skils ae unpolished it means that they aren’t commited to them. They have limited man hours to work on HoT so replacing a full polished skill is a huge waste of time and therefor will be less likely to happen.

I went ahead and played Necro for a while A lot easier than Thief gameplay I would say …. Felt disgusted, came back here to read on the forums.

Like some of you said, it’s not really about the numbers at all, it’s about smoothing things up, and add in some serious synergy between the traits so we can be useful again.

Man I really hope the dev listen to us this time. They are two steps away from ruining this profession, not even exaggerating. That could happen if they decide NOT to fix anything else (but DD) by release.

It’s weird. Of all the people posting prior to the beta weekend, you did the most to defend the DD.

Thief is in a really bad place. I’m a masochist running P/P. It has its moments but it’s so far from any other setup on any other class, that I don’t understand what they could possibly be thinking.

That assumes thinking on the part of devs. Make no mistake, the current situation is from a prolonged state of NOT thinking, if anything. But hey, they got deadlines to meet, and Thief is one of the less popular professions, so…

Black Frog.9274:

It’s weird. Of all the people posting prior to the beta weekend, you did the most to defend the DD.

…

That’s prior to testing. Plus they DO hype things up. So, can’t blame or attack him for that.

:/ His sacrifice wasn’t in vain though, people/players that know the class do need to test it to give a better picture than the hyped up one.

And it’s good that he still has/had hope… I mean, hopefully for him the game is still good – and less cynical than some of ours.

If it isn’t a number issue, then the numbers are at least a factor. The staff auto is lower than it should be, hook strike is incredibly low for unknown reasons (especially when compared to the sword, which has a similar effect), dust strike is incredibly slow for its relatively low damage, and vaults long activation time means it isn’t as powerful relatively to other skills. Impairing Daggers is also quite low, too. Impact Strike also only does as much damage as auto attacking, so unless you are finishing someone off with it. you are better off not using Impact Strike.

The traits themselves are also lacking some numbers. Evasive Empowerment is a garbage effect, and staff mastery tries its hardest to remove its situational damage buff. I imagine if all of these things get buffed a bit, then the DD will be in a better place.

I am quite on the other side. I only played my Thief every now and then but totally loved my DD. Reapers were only a Problem when they were in my face, but chipping away at them from 1050 Range was quite relaxing. Acro + DD is pretty slippery so it is hard to keep them in place to take advantage of the Reaper Damage.

Yes the DD has issues like the clunky dodges and other stuff, but that is what a Beta is for, to find the problems and report them in a reasonable fashion. Carl has 3 Elite Specs to handle but I hope that he can present quite some fixes for the final BWE for the DD.

The current iteration of the Daredevil just smacks of laziness and antipathy. I seriously doubt that it will be in a shippable state come October 23rd.

I truly wish I had waited before buying the xpac. I may actually look into finding out whether I can get a refund, depending on further reveals (non-profession info – Daredevil is a lost cause with the currrent dev in charge of it)

These thread is making me convinced to stay away from this expansion. These are not good feedback.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

These thread is making me convinced to stay away from this expansion. These are not good feedback.

well, we can just hope our feedback, suggestions and uproar is enough to get the daredevil changed.
i see the biggest offender in the dodges and animations, followed by staffskills, utilities and traits have the least complaints.

Black Frog.9274:

It’s weird. Of all the people posting prior to the beta weekend, you did the most to defend the DD.

Thief is in a really bad place. I’m a masochist running P/P. It has its moments but it’s so far from any other setup on any other class, that I don’t understand what they could possibly be thinking.

I am glad you noticed. I really wanted to believe we were in a good position but the testing proved me otherwise.

Zero Day.2594:

Black Frog.9274:

It’s weird. Of all the people posting prior to the beta weekend, you did the most to defend the DD.

…

That’s prior to testing. Plus they DO hype things up. So, can’t blame or attack him for that.

:/ His sacrifice wasn’t in vain though, people/players that know the class do need to test it to give a better picture than the hyped up one.

And it’s good that he still has/had hope… I mean, hopefully for him the game is still good – and less cynical than some of ours.

hahaha No worries Zero. I am still here, well and life. I got like 1 HP in terms of confidence but I am still here.

knyy.6427:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

These thread is making me convinced to stay away from this expansion. These are not good feedback.

well, we can just hope our feedback, suggestions and uproar is enough to get the daredevil changed.
i see the biggest offender in the dodges and animations, followed by staffskills, utilities and traits have the least complaints.

The problem is, those animations might be controlled by hard coded instructions that may not be easily fixed. I doubt that they will make the fixes that were suggested here in time for release.

If they did recycled some animation, like the Dash, then it is not very likely that they will change that to something we prefer. That pretty much is set in stone that after release that we have to deal with — as usual.

Karl’s team have not shown anything that makes me really hopeful on what they can do. It seems to that they are more focus on putting something out, whatever the quality is, rather than putting something out that they can be honestly be proud of.

No, putting effort into something is not something to be proud of. What they should be proud of is delivering a high quality something that makes their efforts worthwhile — and profitable.

So far, I rather spend my money somewhere else — or maybe buy HoT so I can play Reaper since it seems that there is no hope for Thieves.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

knyy.6427:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

These thread is making me convinced to stay away from this expansion. These are not good feedback.

well, we can just hope our feedback, suggestions and uproar is enough to get the daredevil changed.
i see the biggest offender in the dodges and animations, followed by staffskills, utilities and traits have the least complaints.

The problem is, those animations might be controlled by hard coded instructions that may not be easily fixed. I doubt that they will make the fixes that were suggested here in time for release.

If they did recycled some animation, like the Dash, then it is not very likely that they will change that to something we prefer. That pretty much is set in stone that after release that we have to deal with — as usual.

Karl’s team have not shown anything that makes me really hopeful on what they can do. It seems to that they are more focus on putting something out, whatever the quality is, rather than putting something out that they can be honestly be proud of.

No, putting effort into something is not something to be proud of. What they should be proud of is delivering a high quality something that makes their efforts worthwhile — and profitable.

So far, I rather spend my money somewhere else — or maybe buy HoT so I can play Reaper since it seems that there is no hope for Thieves.

YES SIR. The truth right there. Unfortunately I already got my deluxe version a day before the PoI…

My post on the recent appreciation thread got deleted recently, shows how sensible they are to realist criticisms.

Again, what they delivered is average at best, if the contents that comes out on October 23rd shows little improvement, it will be the end of us.

Kocoff.7582:

Testing the Thief for this Beta left me very skeptical of the outcome of the Thief in general. .

ANd just think, Rangers and Engies only have ONE BWE with their e-specs.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Kocoff.7582:

Testing the Thief for this Beta left me very skeptical of the outcome of the Thief in general. .

ANd just think, Rangers and Engies only have ONE BWE with their e-specs.

Open season on medium armor, get your light and heavy armor while they’re hot.

Kocoff.7582:

…

My post on the recent appreciation thread got deleted recently, shows how sensible they are to realist criticisms.

Again, what they delivered is average at best, if the contents that comes out on October 23rd shows little improvement, it will be the end of us.

Doubt this one will get deleted, since they’re probably looking at the one they tagged as feedback, maximum it will get merged into it and you will never find this thread in that one again.

Post Oct. 23, they should do another balance patch 1-6 months after.

Zero Day.2594:

Post Oct. 23, they should do another balance patch 1-6 months after.

I do wonder why they implemented the 3 trait lines before Hot launch if they had no intention to balance it beforehand. Maybe they will balance all lines with HoT, maybe they will just throw the elites at us. But for some reason 3 months is really long to leave known problems as they are.
I’m pretty certain that staff/ daredevil will work at least with HoT – easiest way to make stuff work is to make it OP.

Jana.6831:

Zero Day.2594:

Post Oct. 23, they should do another balance patch 1-6 months after.

I do wonder why they implemented the 3 trait lines before Hot launch if they had no intention to balance it beforehand. Maybe they will balance all lines with HoT, maybe they will just throw the elites at us. But for some reason 3 months is really long to leave known problems as they are.
I’m pretty certain that staff/ daredevil will work at least with HoT – easiest way to make stuff work is to make it OP.

If they implemented the 3 trait line after it would have been a cataclysm. That would be too much content to get used to. Can you imagine haha. I would not even be able to explain what happened to us Thieves to a F2P player.

Kocoff.7582:

If they implemented the 3 trait line after it would have been a cataclysm. That would be too much content to get used to. Can you imagine haha. I would not even be able to explain what happened to us Thieves to a F2P player.

It feels just so rushed and not thought through. And that is typical anet – that’s the main “problem” I have with them, I guess – instead of improving what they have they invent it new. And then leave it like it is instead of improving it.
I don’t think new players are confused by this or even had been if all 3 lines were launched with Hot. All everybody new does is to look builds up (most of them – I didn’t and accidently came up with the meta build for my first character).
And I didn’t get used to the changes, I just got used to being even more glassy – so if you’d give me my game from 3 months back I might be able to win a 1 vs 5 (I did some times but they were potatos).
Edit: And if you’d give me my game from 1,5 years back, I’d be wiping zergs.
Edit²: If I had the slightest interest in any other class I’d be able to show that I’m a good player – but unfortunately for me it’s D/D thief or nothing.

Go back to the Revenant posts when first released or the first trials of the Necromancer.

Read them today. They all went from Gloom and doom to this profession is useless to wow…Give it some time. Thief was released for tests 5 days ago and no neither Revenant or Necromancer was fixed 5 days later.

babazhook.6805:

Go back to the Revenant posts when first released or the first trials of the Necromancer.

Read them today. They all went from Gloom and doom to this profession is useless to wow…Give it some time. Thief was released for tests 5 days ago and no neither Revenant or Necromancer was fixed 5 days later.

Thanks man. Positivity always helps.

babazhook.6805:

Go back to the Revenant posts when first released or the first trials of the Necromancer.

Read them today. They all went from Gloom and doom to this profession is useless to wow…Give it some time. Thief was released for tests 5 days ago and no neither Revenant or Necromancer was fixed 5 days later.

Revenants have a different dev, who is actually interested in the profession…

uglydan.1638:

babazhook.6805:

Go back to the Revenant posts when first released or the first trials of the Necromancer.

Read them today. They all went from Gloom and doom to this profession is useless to wow…Give it some time. Thief was released for tests 5 days ago and no neither Revenant or Necromancer was fixed 5 days later.

Revenants have a different dev, who is actually interested in the profession…

At least Thiefs have a Dev (even if he is not interested that much), Rangers don’t even have a Dev that is NOT interested :-D

uglydan.1638:

babazhook.6805:

Go back to the Revenant posts when first released or the first trials of the Necromancer.

Read them today. They all went from Gloom and doom to this profession is useless to wow…Give it some time. Thief was released for tests 5 days ago and no neither Revenant or Necromancer was fixed 5 days later.

Revenants have a different dev, who is actually interested in the profession…

Well I read much the sentiment in near every thread as well, that being no one cares for that particular class.

babazhook.6805:

Go back to the Revenant posts when first released or the first trials of the Necromancer.

Read them today. They all went from Gloom and doom to this profession is useless to wow…Give it some time. Thief was released for tests 5 days ago and no neither Revenant or Necromancer was fixed 5 days later.

It’s been 3 years and Thief is not yet fixed. How much longer do we have to wait?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

babazhook.6805:

Go back to the Revenant posts when first released or the first trials of the Necromancer.

Read them today. They all went from Gloom and doom to this profession is useless to wow…Give it some time. Thief was released for tests 5 days ago and no neither Revenant or Necromancer was fixed 5 days later.

It’s been 3 years and Thief is not yet fixed. How much longer do we have to wait?

Not long at all actually. The waiting time is almost over and we get either get a fix or we all break.

Kocoff.7582:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

babazhook.6805:

Go back to the Revenant posts when first released or the first trials of the Necromancer.

Read them today. They all went from Gloom and doom to this profession is useless to wow…Give it some time. Thief was released for tests 5 days ago and no neither Revenant or Necromancer was fixed 5 days later.

It’s been 3 years and Thief is not yet fixed. How much longer do we have to wait?

Not long at all actually. The waiting time is almost over and we get either get a fix or we all break.

It is already all broken, all that keeps thief in pvp is sb5. Once elite spec go live, rip thieves (unless they completely rework drd, which won’t happen).

I had no issues fighting a reaper as an acro/dd/trickery s/d + sb thief with no dodge trait. Sounds like an adjustment issue to me. The hard counter that I see to thieves atm is revenants with the sword 3. Even on acro/dd, can’t dodge the entire burst. That skill is so unskillful, it procs even if it misses on the first hit which rewards bad gameplay.

I actually found cele eles easier to fight with the new spec.

I felt that s/d acro was a lot more viable with the new traits especially in tpvp compared to d/p SA.

Lettuce.2945:

I had no issues fighting a reaper as an acro/dd/trickery s/d + sb thief with no dodge trait. Sounds like an adjustment issue to me. The hard counter that I see to thieves atm is revenants with the sword 3. Even on acro/dd, can’t dodge the entire burst. That skill is so unskillful, it procs even if it misses on the first hit which rewards bad gameplay.

I actually found cele eles easier to fight with the new spec.

I felt that s/d acro was a lot more viable with the new traits especially in tpvp compared to d/p SA.

I had totally opposite experience. I tried sd sa/drd/trickery, it just doesn’t work vs organized teams and or anyone with some brain. On other hand i had no issues beating those very drd thieves on sa dp :|

Cynz.9437:

Lettuce.2945:

I had no issues fighting a reaper as an acro/dd/trickery s/d + sb thief with no dodge trait. Sounds like an adjustment issue to me. The hard counter that I see to thieves atm is revenants with the sword 3. Even on acro/dd, can’t dodge the entire burst. That skill is so unskillful, it procs even if it misses on the first hit which rewards bad gameplay.

I actually found cele eles easier to fight with the new spec.

I felt that s/d acro was a lot more viable with the new traits especially in tpvp compared to d/p SA.

I had totally opposite experience. I tried sd sa/drd/trickery, it just doesn’t work vs organized teams and or anyone with some brain. On other hand i had no issues beating those very drd thieves on sa dp :|

As I said, it’s just probably an adjustment issue. I was practicing s/d acro for the last couple of weeks to prepare for the beta weekend (shake off my old acro rust from pre trait changes) and that’s probably why I did extremely well. I played with the kitten version then got the strong version over the beta weekend.

I still don’t see it being better in conquest even if you play it perfectly, you just don’t have the same team support as (oh cmon forum censure) SA.

Lettuce.2945:

I had no issues fighting a reaper as an acro/dd/trickery s/d + sb thief with no dodge trait. Sounds like an adjustment issue to me. The hard counter that I see to thieves atm is revenants with the sword 3. Even on acro/dd, can’t dodge the entire burst. That skill is so unskillful, it procs even if it misses on the first hit which rewards bad gameplay.

What exactly “no issues” mean? Did you mean you have no issue running away from a node using SB#5 when they show up to retake it?

I felt that s/d acro was a lot more viable with the new traits especially in tpvp compared to d/p SA.

Any build is viable in PvP as long as you know how to use SB#5.

I tend to agree with Lettuce in the sense that it is also matter of adjustement, I would this is 30% of the problem. The rest however, is overwhelmingly associated with broken traits.

I think the only positive thing we can say about this, is that there is no denying that there is a serious need for synergy not only in terms of traits but also with the weapons.

For real guys, they just cannot deny it anymore. This profession needs a serious fix. Numbers are there, the feedback is there, all there is now is action and implementation.

I didn’t get to test D/D Staff, Idk why I never even thought about it, but somebody posted a pvp video rocking this set. Clearly Demonstrated a nice compatibility.
(Shout out to alchemyst.2165)

So there is synergy to some extent but very little. S/D on a DD line works wonders too, that’s about it. People thought S/P was gonna be meta, Beta turned this into a living nightmare.

So again, not enough synergy. very little to work with.