Guild Wars 2

Einzelganger.4152:

Oh, by the way. I just wanted to point out a thief that has probably the most skill with this condition build and he utilizes ZERO stealthing utilities. I applaud the likes of WILD BILL. Truly amazing skill and everyone do yourself a favor and check out how he decimates opponents with zero stealth utilities on you tube. He only needs cloak and dagger. Period. He deserves credit for how well he does it compared to the next guy, myself included. Peace.

People run SR in alot of builds because its an amazing team support skill – prevent a stomp, cloak a revival, facilitate an escape, set up a svanir/chieftan steal…
I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone running Blinding powder with P/D, because caltrops is amazing, and you probably want to run a stunbreak. Wild Bill might be an amazing player (haven’t watched any vids, so I don’t know), but not running SR is probably detrimental to your team overall.

I am just going to leave this here…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH1kzDQ_4nA

ive been using the same build as wild bill in Spvp , its so much fun dancing to get cloak and dagger off. The only real problem with the build is no stun breaker or good way to get out of a immobilise because you cant turn to cloak and dagger someone hitting you in the back. I replaced devourer venom with shadow step and preform much better.

Thanks Savints for that link which is also posted by Wild Bill in the thief forums under Yippie Kaye Yae or whatever.
If you want to see how perfected this Carrion build can be using the skill of the player with no stealth utilities check out Savints link above, the infamous Wild Bill. Now imagine throwing stealthing utilities in the mix….hmmmm…. If you do this then you have one of my builds. Even more of a headache. Again a perfect soloing to small group build…. nothing more. But is this build too overpowering?!?!

Mickers, I agree with you on shadowstep and it’s ability to break stuns and create space or escape. I use that with all my builds as well as blinding dust and of course refuge.

The easiest way to probably counter this build is to immobilise chill or cripple and dodge roll when he comes close for a cloak and dagger. If you dodge that he is pretty screwed as you have slow initiative regain. With the carrion set up he probably only has 900-1k toughness. It is a screw you build to warriors though, i dont think you should ever lose to a warrior while using pistol/dagger.

It’s a pretty strong and annoying build to fight. But it’s beatable if you know how it fights (I countered it on my D/D 10/30/30/0 thief).

But for people who don’t know the thief class, it’s a tough one to fight, possibly due to the culling issue in wvw.

Einzelganger.4152:

Thanks Savints for that link which is also posted by Wild Bill in the thief forums under Yippie Kaye Yae or whatever.
If you want to see how perfected this Carrion build can be using the skill of the player with no stealth utilities check out Savints link above, the infamous Wild Bill. Now imagine throwing stealthing utilities in the mix….hmmmm…. If you do this then you have one of my builds. Even more of a headache. Again a perfect soloing to small group build…. nothing more. But is this build too overpowering?!?!

I dont see any special on this movie.He killing from 98% noobs(first fight two noobs Thief spaming HS) or down lvl players.
This build has a miserable DMG and it is easily countered.

savints.6281:

I am just going to leave this here…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH1kzDQ_4nA

I’m not doubting his skill (he obviously knows what he’s doing), but there’s a couple things wrong with this video that makes it incompatible with OP’s point.

-This a WvW video, not sPvP. WvW is categorized as PvE for a reason. I can elaborate, but I really shouldn’t have to.
- Alot of the players he’s fighting are straight up inexperienced. 3 players in melee range let a non-stealth thief get a stomp off? What? That guardian just standing still while he stealths near a downed enemy and gets the stomp off unmolested? The conditions he’s applying are almost never cleansed, something you wont see in sPvP ever.

I started playing this spec before it became popular, and i felt invincible. People honestly didn’t know what was going on (there were literally almost 0 thieves using pistol MH at this point). They’d never fought P/D, didn’t know what I was trying to do, my general strategy, how to counter it…and so on. I’d rock 3 on 1’s and 4 on 1’s constantly. It was like that first time you got bola->frenzy->HB’ed – you had no idea what was going on, but you quickly learned. Now take that, and instead of a single combo you had to learn, it was an entire playstyle. Alot of the enemies in this video fall into that category – confused, and with no idea what they’re fighting. This video plays out exactly like my fights did 3 months ago. Those days are long, long gone.

Einzelganger.4152:

Lol, let us be REAL here folks. It is broken. High condition damage on a skill that utilizes ZERO initiative (at a distance) PLUS stealth. LMFAO. LET US BE REAL. As I stated Aervius, I use this build too. Might want to reread that part in the beginning and the end. The initiative cost should be small as not to destroy the mechanics but only hamper the spamming of something so broken when coupled with high condition. Look, we already can gain 2 initiative when triggering a stealth skill or we can gain initiative quicker when in stealth, if we have these traited. And I bet my bottom dollar you do!

Then you will need to apply similiar mechanic to every class that can apply a bleed on their autoattack. So off the top of my head we need to nerf bleeds on necros, engineers, elementalists, warriors, rangers, hmm can the others do it? if so nerf them too!

Einzelganger.4152:

Quite possibly the easiest fix to one of the biggest exploits in this game.
Have ‘VITAL SHOT’ cost INITIATIVE. Find out the math behind if 1 to 1.5 to 2 initiative per vital shot round is reasonable.

100% Genuine Troll, Accept No Substitutes

You want an autoattack to cost initiative

Say it again

You want an autoattack to cost initiative

That’s like saying

“warrior autoattacks should have cooldowns”

Best thread in months

Evilapprentice, I appreciate your take on the video as I too felt that some of the players seemed very inexperienced and confused. There are other players that have videos as well. Velladonna posted a couple of his on the thief forum and you tube. Might want to see what he is doing, which is very similar to how I rock out Carrion gear. He actually uses other weapon sets besides pistol/dagger combo.

Again people, auto shot/vital shot ALONE is not the gameplay mechanic at fault here. Extremely High condition damage on the bleeds of the auto attack, vital shot, is the source of my concern. Couple that with stealth and culling and you have me, a complete nightmare . To anyone who simply thinks I think auto shot/ vital shot is the mechanic solely at fault obviously is not reading and might want to look at the depth of what I am talking about. It is the combination of ‘A’=autoshot (zero initiative used), ‘B’=high condition/bleeds (on something as silly as an autoshot) and ‘C’=stealth by cloak and dagger or various other stealthing utilities/heal/steal. Not just ‘A’ alone by itself.
If anyone has some insight that might enlighten me in regards to my concern here, please with all do respect, share your thoughts in a mature manner. I appreciate any opinions that will make me rethink what I am talking about.
To those that are calling this a troll thread or simply cannot comprehend what I am saying because they choose not to look at all of the variables involved that make this particular build nearly undefeatable, then I have nothing else to say to you.

dragoaskani.6271:

Einzelganger.4152:

Lol, let us be REAL here folks. It is broken. High condition damage on a skill that utilizes ZERO initiative (at a distance) PLUS stealth. LMFAO. LET US BE REAL. As I stated Aervius, I use this build too. Might want to reread that part in the beginning and the end. The initiative cost should be small as not to destroy the mechanics but only hamper the spamming of something so broken when coupled with high condition. Look, we already can gain 2 initiative when triggering a stealth skill or we can gain initiative quicker when in stealth, if we have these traited. And I bet my bottom dollar you do!

Then you will need to apply similiar mechanic to every class that can apply a bleed on their autoattack. So off the top of my head we need to nerf bleeds on necros, engineers, elementalists, warriors, rangers, hmm can the others do it? if so nerf them too!

Only thing is these classes might have bleeds on their auto attacks, but they cannot stealth like a thief. The thief has many advantages with their stealth mechanic in this scenario/ build.

Einzelganger.4152:

Again people, auto shot/vital shot ALONE is not the gameplay mechanic at fault here. Extremely High condition damage on the bleeds of the auto attack, vital shot, is the source of my concern. Couple that with stealth and culling and you have me, a complete nightmare . To anyone who simply thinks I think auto shot/ vital shot is the mechanic solely at fault obviously is not reading and might want to look at the depth of what I am talking about. It is the combination of ‘A’=autoshot (zero initiative used), ‘B’=high condition/bleeds (on something as silly as an autoshot) and ‘C’=stealth by cloak and dagger or various other stealthing utilities/heal/steal. Not just ‘A’ alone by itself.
If anyone has some insight that might enlighten me in regards to my concern here, please with all do respect, share your thoughts in a mature manner. I appreciate any opinions that will make me rethink what I am talking about.
To those that are calling this a troll thread or simply cannot comprehend what I am saying because they choose not to look at all of the variables involved that make this particular build nearly undefeatable, then I have nothing else to say to you.

With 2000 condition damage stat (which takes a lot to get that including full carrion armor, foods, secondary nourishment, runes AND might stacks).. My bleeds tick for something like 141. I hardly call that extremely high condition damage. Vital shot alone is not enough to kill anyone except upleveled undergeared players. This is the slowest killing setup a thief has and is only viable because of the survivability if played right.

There are tons of counters to it including classes like necro and mesmer which can put the bleeds back on you. Warriors, guardians, mesmers, engineers, ele’s can all reflect your shots back at you. And there is about a million and one ways to remove conditions in this game, even some where you can remove them on all players around you.

I don’t think most of the anger with this build is caused by people dying fast, but due to it being harder to kill the thief as most ppl expect a thief to die quickly when they catch them. I’m sorry but we aren’t all going to play LOLGLASS builds.

Oh btw you can almost always just run from a p/d condition thief if your build isnt designed to counter it. Most won’t run Signet of Shadows nor CC’s.

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