Guild Wars 2

solo roamer video condi build
http://youtu.be/zmwXAFbFQiQ

camp holder video
http://youtu.be/kZOgTGIeAGM

condi build
pros : can solo supply camp in less than 1 min, can create distraction due to tankyness (hard to kill), can survive even kill people in 1v3 situation, can holding camp against 20++ enemies due to rendering issue ;P
cons : much more slower to kill an enemy (compared to GC), condition can be removed( that mean ur damage will be remove before it reach full potential )

in my video both using same build, the only differences is utility

tell me your opinion, and hope u guys enjoy the video

edit : added link for traits and build on my video, somehow i cant post it here -__-

edit title : since i realise that there is no equal comparison between Condi and GC (either build have cons and pros depend on the situation), and since there are only a few people using condition build, so i think, there is no harm when we discuss about condi thief in WvWvW to make people a little bit familiar about condi build, and with many ppl more and more using condi, i hope it will be less QQ for Thief, especially glasscannon

feel free to post ur build/traits rune and ur video

My only question is what would a condition thief do in keep sieges and defense? the normal go-to Cluster Bomb from the short bow would hit like a wet noodle for a condition thief…

maybe he doesnt do sieges :P i dont like them imo thats just me i like to roam and take camps :P

Matsumori Oukanishi.8794:

My only question is what would a condition thief do in keep sieges and defense? the normal go-to Cluster Bomb from the short bow would hit like a wet noodle for a condition thief…

good question, so when the enemy zerg have long range siege (cata, treb,ballista) i’ll use shadow refuge to reach their siege and lay caltrops under player who use the siege. using dodge to lay more caltrops, that player will definetly stop firing siege weapon otherwise they will die to bleed, , use CnD (do CnD to siege weapon ) for maintain invis , if they focusing aoe at siege weapon (thats mean u succed to distract them), just get out or tag near player with CnD, do it again after caltrops ready, thats what i do in those situation, i doubt any other class can do that except thief, and i believe glasscanon thief cant even touch well protected long range siege alone

*CnD deal 1,5-2k to siege weapon
too bad i didnt frap those since zerg vs zerg that mean hella lag even without fraping

Siege Defense? Stealth into the zerg and drop caltrops and pick off a few folks here and there. Shortbow 4 and the bleeds from Cluster Bomb are pretty nice as well.

I prefer Condi P/D Thief too.

DieQuex.4096:

Siege Defense? Stealth into the zerg and drop caltrops and pick off a few folks here and there. Shortbow 4 and the bleeds from Cluster Bomb are pretty nice as well..

This is pretty effective, TBH. Take Signet of Malice, Signet of Agility, Caltrops and Uncatchable at minimum. If there’s a big mob of enemies on the gate dodge through it, drop caltrops, drop poison (if SB), or LDB (if D/D), then alternate dodge and LDB to keep decent evasive uptime and bring in hit volume to heal. You should be able to dodge 6-8 times depending on traits. Dagger Storm while you regain some endurance, you’ll be vulnerable to a direct attack but people will have to slog through all your caltrops and counteract the massive healing you’ll be pulling from Signet of Malice, not to mention at this time you’ve probably got the attention of some ranged enemies so you’re adding all those reflected shots to your healing. When Dagger Storm is done, burn your endurance/initiative again, drop caltrops if they’re back up, and go back through the gate.

It sounds impossible, but you’re running >80 % invincibility from evasion except under dagger storm, and should be pulling in thousands of HP/sec in healing, depending on traits. You won’t leave a trail of dead bodies by putting >10 bleeds on everyone, but you’ll force people to move back and burn their condition removal

Kirito.8796:

lol the condition build is so much more OP than bs/gc thief, yet no one complains about it aha. I honestly feel bad using this spec

maybe because ppl love to see big number , but look at those bleeds , aren’t they beautiful :P especially at 15++ stacks

Could you post your build + armor stats that you’re using? Cheers mate. Good vids!

Gratz, nice job roaming. Altough I still think that one man preventing 20 from capping a camp by being invisible is not intended and should be fixed somehow. But still, very nice.

Two questions:
1. Are you in full exotic carrion (including trinkets)?
2. What foods do you use? Do you take veggie pizzas for the bleed duration or something else?

P.S. I hope condition builds don’t draw too much attention, they really are more powerful and the kiddies will scream nerf even harder :P

Both builds are good at different things.

His build was at the video description….Enjoy

http://goo.gl/WD2EA

The problem is when you endup fighting anything with decent condition removal, esp with that cond build that can apply 2-3 conds at a time tops. With only one being a dmg cond.

supergica.8652:

Gratz, nice job roaming. Altough I still think that one man preventing 20 from capping a camp by being invisible is not intended and should be fixed somehow. But still, very nice.

Two questions:
1. Are you in full exotic carrion (including trinkets)?
2. What foods do you use? Do you take veggie pizzas for the bleed duration or something else?

P.S. I hope condition builds don’t draw too much attention, they really are more powerful and the kiddies will scream nerf even harder :P

1. yup im using full carrion including trinkets
2. for food im using Bowls of Orrian Trufle Meat and Stew (100% chance gain might when dodge, 40% endurance refill) this food synergize well with Power of Inertia and Hidden Assassin, u see in my video, i have constant 7++ might every fight

Cuteypie.7835:

The problem is when you endup fighting anything with decent condition removal, esp with that cond build that can apply 2-3 conds at a time tops. With only one being a dmg cond.

cond removal only make fight a bit more longer then it supposed to be, the good thing about p/d their bleed duration short 4s-5s tops,but u can easily restack it in short time,(compared to D/D LDB) and auto attack from pistol inflict bleeding too, i’ve fought many bunker ele with tons condition removal, everytime they remove my condition i can restackt 6 bleed in 1-2 secs due to auto attack and sneak attack, and i wont run out ini if u connect ur CnD,
thats why i dump all my stats in condition damage

unfortunately i also run a condition build, and i also think it will be nerfed into oblivion after the backastab QQ thread. trolls will never stop.

Well the thing that limits Condition builds imo is the fact that quite often you won’t have all that much time to apply your damage. Sometimes you need to pick off a straddler before he reaches his zerg or the closest keep. Sometimes you might just want to pick someone out of the nemy Zerg or quickly destroy a Siege operator.

That’s where burst is just conceptionally better than DoTs even if it is less stronger in a straight-up fight.

NightShade.5283:

cond removal only make fight a bit more longer then it supposed to be, the good thing about p/d their bleed duration short 4s-5s tops,but u can easily restack it in short time,(compared to D/D LDB) and auto attack from pistol inflict bleeding too, i’ve fought many bunker ele with tons condition removal, everytime they remove my condition i can restackt 6 bleed in 1-2 secs due to auto attack and sneak attack, and i wont run out ini if u connect ur CnD,
thats why i dump all my stats in condition damage

What about the runes? You have three types of runes in that build, so it is looking like you are stacking some cond duration after all. The complete set of undead runes will result in more condition dmg and bonus toughness as well. How about that? :-)

Dee Jay.2460:

That’s where burst is just conceptionally better than DoTs even if it is less stronger in a straight-up fight.

Which is why straight up comparing two situationally useful setups and trying to say “one is better than the other” in all cases is useless.

STRanger.5120:

NightShade.5283:

cond removal only make fight a bit more longer then it supposed to be, the good thing about p/d their bleed duration short 4s-5s tops,but u can easily restack it in short time,(compared to D/D LDB) and auto attack from pistol inflict bleeding too, i’ve fought many bunker ele with tons condition removal, everytime they remove my condition i can restackt 6 bleed in 1-2 secs due to auto attack and sneak attack, and i wont run out ini if u connect ur CnD,
thats why i dump all my stats in condition damage

What about the runes? You have three types of runes in that build, so it is looking like you are stacking some cond duration after all. The complete set of undead runes will result in more condition dmg and bonus toughness as well. How about that? :-)

my first choice rune for pvp is undead runes, because ppl tend to bring more defensive utility such as cond removal, but the reason why im using three types of runes in WvW,because sometimes when im sniping dolyaks they guard it with 3-7 ppl (i know its sounds crazy) i need to make sure that my bleed ticks long enough while im invis thats mean i can do enough damage without exposing myself,not only that longer duration mean u can stacks more bleeds, before the first tick disappear. so with those 3 runes i have middle ground , where my bleeds tick longer, but i wont lose that much damage even when enemies using cond removal. *btw i forgot to mention that short condition duration is cons for P/D, but like i said before it easy to restack compared to D/D LDB longer duration but kinda hard to restack due to higher ini cost

I think unless you only do WvsW(which the thread is about so LOL) and nothing else condition is fine, BUT i go farm Ruins of Orr daily and Condition just doesnt cut it in PVE and i do not wanna RESPEC 2-3 times a day everytime I go WvsW which is 90% rest of the time.

Just a Quality of life thing…

And the line of sight with pistol against enemies with pets or minions, guards etc just piss me off to much…

NightShade.5283:

my first choice rune for pvp is undead runes, because ppl tend to bring more defensive utility such as cond removal, but the reason why im using three types of runes in WvW,because sometimes when im sniping dolyaks they guard it with 3-7 ppl (i know its sounds crazy) i need to make sure that my bleed ticks long enough while im invis thats mean i can do enough damage without exposing myself, so with those 3 runes i have middle ground , where my bleeds tick longer, but i wont lose that much damage even when enemies using cond removal. *btw i forgot to mention that short condition duration is cons for P/D, but like i said before it easy to restack compared to D/D LDB longer duration but kinda hard to restack due to higher ini cost

I thought that this would be the reason Thanks for the clarification.
Also, I saw a calculations over the forums which were showing that for the sneak attack the beneficial bleed duration is only as 25% and then at 50%, for DB every 10% counts as an extra tick (due to longer base duration).
Assuming that these suggestions are true, It will be cheaper to get 4x major rune of the afflicted (57 cond dmg and 25% bleed duration) instead of 2x superior centaur and 2x superior afflicted (25 power, 28 cond dmg and 30% bleed duration), and the condition dmg will get even a little buff :-)

Edit: Unintended underlines

STRanger.5120:

NightShade.5283:

my first choice rune for pvp is undead runes, because ppl tend to bring more defensive utility such as cond removal, but the reason why im using three types of runes in WvW,because sometimes when im sniping dolyaks they guard it with 3-7 ppl (i know its sounds crazy) i need to make sure that my bleed ticks long enough while im invis thats mean i can do enough damage without exposing myself, so with those 3 runes i have middle ground , where my bleeds tick longer, but i wont lose that much damage even when enemies using cond removal. *btw i forgot to mention that short condition duration is cons for P/D, but like i said before it easy to restack compared to D/D LDB longer duration but kinda hard to restack due to higher ini cost

I thought that this would be the reason Thanks for the clarification.
Also, I saw a calculations over the forums which were showing that for the sneak attack the beneficial bleed duration is only as 25% and then at 50%, for DB every 10% counts as an extra tick (due to longer base duration).
Assuming that these suggestions are true, It will be cheaper to get 4x major rune of the afflicted (57 cond dmg and 25% bleed duration) instead of 2x superior centaur and 2x superior afflicted (25 power, 28 cond dmg and 30% bleed duration), and the condition dmg will get even a little buff :-)

Edit: Unintended underlines

yup thats a great suggestion, considering thats superior runes is more expensive than major, and there is not that much difference between those 2 runes

NightShade.5283:

yup thats a great suggestion, considering thats superior runes is more expensive than major, and there is not that much difference between those 2 runes

Thanks, I was converting my Thief to condition dmg recently, and you had inspired me greatly for further enhancements on my build, so when this idea occured to me while I was looking at the build, I had to share
Finally, this is a thread which belongs to these forums :-)

But a burst thief doesnt have to be a glass cannon…

+100% crit chance on backstab + valk set

10 / 30 / 20 / 0 / 10

19,2k hp + 2,3k armor while still hitting hard with backstabs…

The 10 in Trickery gives you Fury on steal which means u still have decent crit chance without any prec gear.

First off, epic gameplay. You, sir, are a fantastic thief.

I have a few questions/comments

1) Accidental protip I found out a few days ago: If you’re in stealth, you can use Choking Gas (shortbow poison) without breaking it. Since you’re a condition damage build and use SoM, that would be crazy damage and healing for you. You should try that out sometime to troll zergs. Could make for a funny video :P

2) I’m curious why you don’t use pizza. +40% Condition duration and +70 condition damage would be a massive boost to your build. Your bleeds would last even longer (so they’d stack higher), and cripple from Caltrops/Uncatchable/Dagger Storm would last even longer.

3) How are you able to deal with clone-heavy mesmers? I ran this build for a while, and they were one of the hardest things for me to kill because I could never target them. Every time they drop target (stealth etc), you have to click on the correct target to shoot them (which is hard with all the clones), and then the bullets hit the clones way too often. With my sword, I just have to run up to the real mesmer and start swinging.

4) How do you deal with control-heavy builds (hammer warriors, for example)? You don’t seem to have any stun breaks.

5) What classes/builds give you the most trouble?

hmm trying this build x.x i keep running into glass cannon thieves that insta gib me with basalisk venom then just burst my face off…

Dagger storm, warrior stolen axe whirlwind, cluster and the fact that light combos are everywhere is enough to make me prefer physical damage, even if it’s soldier geared tanky damage.

Dacromir.6207:

First off, epic gameplay. You, sir, are a fantastic thief.

I have a few questions/comments

1) Accidental protip I found out a few days ago: If you’re in stealth, you can use Choking Gas (shortbow poison) without breaking it. Since you’re a condition damage build and use SoM, that would be crazy damage and healing for you. You should try that out sometime to troll zergs. Could make for a funny video :P

2) I’m curious why you don’t use pizza. +40% Condition duration and +70 condition damage would be a massive boost to your build. Your bleeds would last even longer (so they’d stack higher), and cripple from Caltrops/Uncatchable/Dagger Storm would last even longer.

3) How are you able to deal with clone-heavy mesmers? I ran this build for a while, and they were one of the hardest things for me to kill because I could never target them. Every time they drop target (stealth etc), you have to click on the correct target to shoot them (which is hard with all the clones), and then the bullets hit the clones way too often. With my sword, I just have to run up to the real mesmer and start swinging.

4) How do you deal with control-heavy builds (hammer warriors, for example)? You don’t seem to have any stun breaks.

5) What classes/builds give you the most trouble?

1. yup shortbow is good for secondary weapon,and if u not soloing supply camp, because i jump from one supply camp to another supply camp (for soloing or hold it , dont forget to snipe some dolyaks in your way )i rarely use shortbow, D/D LDB is perfect skill to do it
2. pizza is a good food if u wanna increase ur overall condition damage, but i dodge alot, thats reason why i can survive in those 1 v 3 situation those 40% endurance refill + bonus endurance refill from WvW its self, can make a big difference when u got outnumbered or holding supply camp from 20++ enemies , and for now i satisfied with my damage
3. its not that hard to dealing with mesmer, but u should know a basic for fighting mesmer, their clone/phantasm either stay in place or run towards you, and u can use those clone as your advantage too, that means u can use CnD even when the real mesmer not near u, just run towards those clone , well if u still confuse to find the real one, like i said run towards clone. CnD and stay invis, and dont attack if u not sure where the real mesmer is
4. if i fighting those cc build, make sure always stay in range except when u wanna do CnD in that case, use dodge roll to go in. yeah thats the biggest flaw from this build, (u dont have any stun breaker) all my utility is important, Caltrops
(main damage utility) Shadow Refuge (definetly the best utility in the game ) Signet of Shadow (as a roamer u need to go fast from 1 place to another place, and cant prevent enemies from canceling ur stomp) .thats why u relying on ur dodge alot , if u see in my first clip, the one when i 1v1 against warrior, i’ll definetly dead if didn’t dodge those bull’s charge,

5. in straight 1v1 situation. i dont have any problem with all class or build , but in outnumbered situation 1v2 1v3, i think a thief, who know what his doing, can give u big problem. Shadow Refuge to prevent u from stomping player or , especially when u ran into glasscanon thief squad lol. 1v1 if i got caught by those instagib build, i still can survive. use invis to regen etc, since i know they dont have anything after that, i can easily kill them , but in 1v2 even when i survived initial burst, their damage can still make u retreat or dead (the most annoying thing if u got killed by hs)

Ulquiorra.6903:

hmm trying this build x.x i keep running into glass cannon thieves that insta gib me with basalisk venom then just burst my face off…

u should have enough survability, even when they burst u with full combo, or at last trigger Last Refuge to preven u dying, after that u can easily reset the fight while they waiting 45 sec for their CD

I love my condition thief, reason why is i love going into a zerg, caltrops and DB and see those pretty numbers flying off the enemies, that alone gives me the satisfaction of playing a condition thief.

Viable build good damage. Good HP pool. Might stacking with a bleed build. Ideal to keep up your white damage as well as help to improve your bleed damage.

The problem I have with this style of build is shown in your first video where you attack 3 idiots taking a camp. And I call them idiots because with 3 of them there none of them notice you until you drop one of them and once you drop the 2nd the guardian rather than bubbling you off of your obvious stealth stomp he tries to res. (no offense but when I see a refuge go down next to a body I know what that thief is doing. As should most good players by now) But anyway back to the problem, a staff guardian almost kills you because of 1 skill on his bar. Cleansing Flames. You had a hard time keeping your conditions up on him and as such he was able to almost kill you with a very weak guardian weapon. This will be your downfall in fights anyone who is able to remove conditions will give you trouble. A mes using Null Field would be even worse as he would not only strip the bleeds you apply but the might you stack as well.

I would also like to point out that when fighting P/D thieves the majority of problems I have with them is the rendering issue they take advantage of. Because they don’t render for 2-3 seconds after their stealth expires they have a lot of extra time to build up free bleed stacks and then if they are good by the time they are rendering in they are going in for a CnD strike to hide for a little bit. So really rendering plays a very real role in this build because your stealth protects you for longer than it should. It is hard to kill something you cant target. (unless you have a crap ton of AoE skills) Once (if?) they fix the rendering issue I will be interested in finding out how well this build works.

As for my opinion I think this is just as effective a glass cannon. Both are effective in different ways. A glass cannon is designed to burn down 1 target very fast and move on. Your build is designed to take on 1-3 targets and kill them slowly and keep them busy. Both have a role to play but neither could do the others role.

But honestly you should not be asking us our opinion on your playing style. If you prefer this playing style over daggers or what ever then that is how you should play. Don’t play a style because everyone tells you that you should. Play a style because you love playing that way.

Fixeon.5076:

Viable build good damage. Good HP pool. Might stacking with a bleed build. Ideal to keep up your white damage as well as help to improve your bleed damage.

The problem I have with this style of build is shown in your first video where you attack 3 idiots taking a camp. And I call them idiots because with 3 of them there none of them notice you until you drop one of them and once you drop the 2nd the guardian rather than bubbling you off of your obvious stealth stomp he tries to res. (no offense but when I see a refuge go down next to a body I know what that thief is doing. As should most good players by now) But anyway back to the problem, a staff guardian almost kills you because of 1 skill on his bar. Cleansing Flames. You had a hard time keeping your conditions up on him and as such he was able to almost kill you with a very weak guardian weapon. This will be your downfall in fights anyone who is able to remove conditions will give you trouble. A mes using Null Field would be even worse as he would not only strip the bleeds you apply but the might you stack as well.

in that fight vs guardian, yeah i made too many mistake (i wrote it in video tho, i missed like 2 times CnD and 1 interrupt from steal, after i saw my video once more, i realise why the guardian not using bubble to interrupt my stomp, i believe, it because his weapon swap still in CD, or maybe he simply bad like u said :P

I would also like to point out that when fighting P/D thieves the majority of problems I have with them is the rendering issue they take advantage of. Because they don’t render for 2-3 seconds after their stealth expires they have a lot of extra time to build up free bleed stacks and then if they are good by the time they are rendering in they are going in for a CnD strike to hide for a little bit. So really rendering plays a very real role in this build because your stealth protects you for longer than it should. It is hard to kill something you cant target. (unless you have a crap ton of AoE skills) Once (if?) they fix the rendering issue I will be interested in finding out how well this build works.

rendering issue not only affect P/D but all thief build who using stealth for main set up damage such as backstab

As for my opinion I think this is just as effective a glass cannon. Both are effective in different ways. A glass cannon is designed to burn down 1 target very fast and move on. Your build is designed to take on 1-3 targets and kill them slowly and keep them busy. Both have a role to play but neither could do the others role.

But honestly you should not be asking us our opinion on your playing style. If you prefer this playing style over daggers or what ever then that is how you should play. Don’t play a style because everyone tells you that you should. Play a style because you love playing that way.

yup i realise that, thats why i changed this title thread, but i was too late

With the significant amount of healing you generate, have you considered adding some toughness?

Either cond/prec/tough, like whispers from dungeon/karma sets or shaman (tough/heal/cond) armor.

Neither heal or precision is an ideal stat tradeoff from power, but at least shaman weapons are relatively cheap to test with.

Spifnar.4712:

With the significant amount of healing you generate, have you considered adding some toughness?

Either cond/prec/tough, like whispers from dungeon/karma sets or shaman (tough/heal/cond) armor.

Neither heal or precision is an ideal stat tradeoff from power, but at least shaman weapons are relatively cheap to test with.

never tried that, since imo best defensive stats for thief is vit (because of low hp pool), i even still missed the orb in WvWvW 3 orbs can give me max 25k hp. and yeah both of them not worth to trade for power considering that my build dont have that much power, to bad there is no pow/though/cond gear :P

There is no way to counter this stupid spec as melee class.

Azzan.1650:

There is no way to counter this stupid spec as melee class.

That’s why you shouldn’t roam solo without bringing a ranged weapon.

You think it would make a difference if i bring a scepter, really ? Class like guardian dont have any good ranged weapon for 1vs1 situation.

Azzan.1650:

You think it would make a difference if i bring a scepter, really ? Class like guardian dont have any good ranged weapon for 1vs1 situation.

in straight up 1 v 1 fight, its depend on the player skill (especially in spvp)
i have fought a skilled guardian in spvp, out of 5 my CnD i can only land 1, he either dodge or block it, and at the end my heal cant outlast his constant burn and damage, due to his block, and dont judge a build or class based on WvWvW only, because difference in gear, buff and stacks matters a lot

Matsumori Oukanishi.8794:

My only question is what would a condition thief do in keep sieges and defense? the normal go-to Cluster Bomb from the short bow would hit like a wet noodle for a condition thief…

Actually, detonating the bomb at the right moment stacks bleeds really fast with the bow. When your bleeds tick for 130ish and poisons for 230ish, the shortbow does put allot of pressure on.

Azzan.1650:

There is no way to counter this stupid spec as melee class.

Azzan.1650:

You think it would make a difference if i bring a scepter, really ? Class like guardian dont have any good ranged weapon for 1vs1 situation

Take a hammer. If you’re a guardian and you want to lock a Thief down, Hammer and Greatsword or Sword/Torch would be your best bet. Use the Hammer to keep him from running away and damage him. Greatsword works well because of the mobility and the pull, Sword/Torch works well because of the teleport, ranged burst (which also deflects his bullets!) and high burn damage. You could also use a Scepter/Shield. Swap to Scepter/Shield and hit him a few times while preventing damage with shield. Then, when swap is off cooldown, hit him with your scepter immobilize and swap to your melee weapon. Bring the hurt while he’s pinned down.

NightShade.5283:

Ulquiorra.6903:

hmm trying this build x.x i keep running into glass cannon thieves that insta gib me with basalisk venom then just burst my face off…

u should have enough survability, even when they burst u with full combo, or at last trigger Last Refuge to preven u dying, after that u can easily reset the fight while they waiting 45 sec for their CD

i only have around 19k hp and i get downed before the venom is even finished.

Ulquiorra.6903:

NightShade.5283:

Ulquiorra.6903:

hmm trying this build x.x i keep running into glass cannon thieves that insta gib me with basalisk venom then just burst my face off…

u should have enough survability, even when they burst u with full combo, or at last trigger Last Refuge to preven u dying, after that u can easily reset the fight while they waiting 45 sec for their CD

i only have around 19k hp and i get downed before the venom is even finished.

dodge the mug or bring a stunbreaker (shadow step) for free win vs them.

Seriously, P/D cond can 1v2 2 glass cannon backstab thieves if you play it well.

Kirito.8796:

lol the condition build is so much more OP than bs/gc thief, yet no one complains about it aha. I honestly feel bad using this spec

We do, it’s just hard to get heard in a room full of people shouting the same thing.

I wish I could main a shortbow on my thief, but why bother asking for nice things for bow when everyone rolls dodge to win bleedspec or baby’s first-instagib/no consequence stealth and dagger. All the melee specs for thief tear pvp up, this is so kitten because not only does it make playing pvp less fun on my other classes, but it’s the reason that shortbow will forever be left as nothing more than Infiltrator’s arrow.

Holy crap, this makes me want to switch back to P/D

azuzephyr.7280:

Kirito.8796:

lol the condition build is so much more OP than bs/gc thief, yet no one complains about it aha. I honestly feel bad using this spec

We do, it’s just hard to get heard in a room full of people shouting the same thing.

I wish I could main a shortbow on my thief, but why bother asking for nice things for bow when everyone rolls dodge to win bleedspec or baby’s first-instagib/no consequence stealth and dagger. All the melee specs for thief tear pvp up, this is so kitten because not only does it make playing pvp less fun on my other classes, but it’s the reason that shortbow will forever be left as nothing more than Infiltrator’s arrow.

Every single skill on shortbow is fantastic. Even the auto-attack is great. You can play defensively or aggressively, melee ranged combat with cluster spam or attack from a distance with autos. Why can’t you main sb?

Because then you’re like a staff ele without meteor shower or water/air fields

Also, because cluster bomb is sooooo sloooow.

Aside from that, some people do make it work.