Guild Wars 2

If you dodge, and then dodge again before the 4 sec duration on the 10% condi damage buff runs out, do you have 20% buff? or does it stack duration? or does it reset the duration?

No stacking. Just an overwrite. Buff stays at 10 percent and the time after second dodge does not increase duration it jut 4 seconds.

babazhook.6805:

No stacking. Just an overwrite. Buff stays at 10 percent and the time after second dodge does not increase duration it jut 4 seconds.

Ah so it just starts the 4 secs over again. Ok thanks!

As noted LT doesn’t stack so it is important to dodge evenly to maintain its up time. Keep in mind LT isn’t a good damager but a great ability for cover conditions.

Straegen.2938:

As noted LT doesn’t stack so it is important to dodge evenly to maintain its up time. Keep in mind LT isn’t a good damager but a great ability for cover conditions.

If you using conditions you can use LT to load venoms. One LT with Skale and Poison venom loaded can load a pile of conditions and enemies tend not to dodge your dodge.

You do this and a single dodge can load

poison/cripple/bleed/torment/vulnerability/weakness with mutiple stacks on some. If you got uncatchable and dodge right over the enemy you add more bleed cripple.

Now if you got pressure strike traited you can use Basi and try for an interrupt on that dodge and if you got a field, say off your SB with poison field that one dodge can also add poison bolts.

babazhook.6805:

If you using conditions you can use LT to load venoms. One LT with Skale and Poison venom loaded can load a pile of conditions and enemies tend not to dodge your dodge.

This can work but venoms have slow recharge times and eat up utility slots. Going this route means the opening salvo of condi needs to its job otherwise the thief has nearly a half minute of low DPS with no utility .

Straegen.2938:

babazhook.6805:

If you using conditions you can use LT to load venoms. One LT with Skale and Poison venom loaded can load a pile of conditions and enemies tend not to dodge your dodge.

This can work but venoms have slow recharge times and eat up utility slots. Going this route means the opening salvo of condi needs to its job otherwise the thief has nearly a half minute of low DPS with no utility .

While there an impact to utility , there no impact to the amount of damage being done as it relates to a condition build. I can not see what can be slotted that would do much more in the way of Condition damage as far as utilities go. All of the weapon sets that apply conditions remain perfectly functional from a damage perspective.

In a D/D condition build. You have now applied all of those Conditions I listed at the cost of 0 INI. This forces a cleanse and all of your other ways of stacking more conditions remain such as the AA, DB and the steal plus the base LT.

In a P/d build you still have all of your INI after those conditions applied and can still get sneak attack for bleed apps and those torments off shadowstrike. Now it true that many use Blinding powder to get a stealth so as to use that sneak attack but that does no more damage in the long term then does one of those venoms and the cooldown every bit as long.

Now the third build is where it gets very Interesting and that P/P hybrid. Using LT to apply those venoms, you still have full access to your INI and can use that INI for torment stacking off interrupts coupled with those AA attacks for bleed. Now you can mix in unloads and once you get those conditions on, you will see a huge boost in your condi ticks. 15 percent lead attacks applies to both condition damage and raw damage. Might stacks boost both condition damage and power damage. Now the power is not as effective as a pure power build but I have gotten 3600+ ticks off torment alone. For a thief using p/p that is huge as an enemy taking 3600 ticks just for moving helps with your own lack of overall mobility. (This from a WvW perspective)

The effective boost to all conditions can be as much as 10% (LT bonus) , 15 percent (lead attack boost) , 4 percent (just off vuln from skale) along with the might.

Wow… umm thanks guys! I never considered that condi could get this effective on a thief… wow I need to finish leveling my thief now…

babazhook.6805:

This can work but venoms have slow recharge times and eat up utility slots. Going this route means the opening salvo of condi needs to its job otherwise the thief has nearly a half minute of low DPS with no utility .

Impairing Daggers is a fantastic utility on a Condi build. Signet of Agility is a precision passive and active gives condi removal as well as two extra dodges which is also two extra Lotus Training applications. Then there is the pure defensive side with Bandits Defense (crazy good) and Shadow Step (also crazy good). Any of these also require no traits to perform well.

A thief could also go with a single Needle Trap and Deadly Trapper for 5 vuln, 5 might, immobilize, poison, weakness, 3 bleed, unblockable and on a 24s timer.

IMO, Venoms only perform well in a small group squad where the stacking makes them worth the utility and trait cost.

Straegen.2938:

babazhook.6805:

This can work but venoms have slow recharge times and eat up utility slots. Going this route means the opening salvo of condi needs to its job otherwise the thief has nearly a half minute of low DPS with no utility .

Impairing Daggers is a fantastic utility on a Condi build. Signet of Agility is a precision passive and active gives condi removal as well as two extra dodges which is also two extra Lotus Training applications. Then there is the pure defensive side with Bandits Defense (crazy good) and Shadow Step (also crazy good). Any of these also require no traits to perform well.

A thief could also go with a single Needle Trap and Deadly Trapper for 5 vuln, 5 might, immobilize, poison, weakness, 3 bleed, unblockable and on a 24s timer.

IMO, Venoms only perform well in a small group squad where the stacking makes them worth the utility and trait cost.

I think you should read again what I posted. I acknowledged that in taking venoms a person would give up on utility. I made it very clear they would not give up damage.

There are 5 utility slots and the heal and elite are moot given I am not talking about the Skelk heal and close to 50 percent of builds use Basi in any case.

This leaves 3 utility slots to choose from and given there only two real venoms that do damage (spider and skale) we are talking about 2 slots.

Any of the utilities you mentioned when considering damage only will do less or the same damage as those two venoms. Your needle trap does not out damage Spider venom even if it can be cast 10 seconds earlier for a second go round. Impairing daggers does not outdamage spider venom even if one considers the lower cooldown.

They do offer better utility but as I pointed out they can not be applied with a Dodge.

I was responding to your claim that if using venoms in such a manner the DPS of a given build is compromised until those venoms come off cooldown which is a point i disagree with given it suggests other utilities will offer more DPS.

This does not translate to people are better off taking venoms in their build than one of those other utilities. It simply means if they do so they are not sacrificing damage.

babazhook.6805:

Any of the utilities you mentioned when considering damage only will do less or the same damage as those two venoms. Your needle trap does not out damage Spider venom even if it can be cast 10 seconds earlier for a second go round. Impairing daggers does not outdamage spider venom even if one considers the lower cooldown.

Impairing Daggers when traited gives back endurance and can fire 1.5 to 2 times in the same time Spider Venom is applied. It also has a direct damage component along with a slow and an immobilize which are at worst solid cover conditions. From a non-group standpoint Impairing is far better.

Needle Trap stacks might which is about a 10% bump in total condi dmg, vulnerability for another 5% and an immobilize in addition to a very long running 10s set of bleeds. Just as important to note is that the damage application is unblockable. Its downside is how it is applied but its DPS potential is very high especially if Trappers Respite is in the mix.

As I stated Venoms are very subpar outside of group application.

Straegen.2938:

babazhook.6805:

Any of the utilities you mentioned when considering damage only will do less or the same damage as those two venoms. Your needle trap does not out damage Spider venom even if it can be cast 10 seconds earlier for a second go round. Impairing daggers does not outdamage spider venom even if one considers the lower cooldown.

Impairing Daggers when traited gives back endurance and can fire 1.5 to 2 times in the same time Spider Venom is applied. It also has a direct damage component along with a slow and an immobilize which are at worst solid cover conditions. From a non-group standpoint Impairing is far better.

Needle Trap stacks might which is about a 10% bump in total condi dmg, vulnerability for another 5% and an immobilize in addition to a very long running 10s set of bleeds. Just as important to note is that the damage application is unblockable. Its downside is how it is applied but its DPS potential is very high especially if Trappers Respite is in the mix.

As I stated Venoms are very subpar outside of group application.

I assure you I played both styles and get more damge off the venom. You are now adding other traits to make traps/impairing more comparable. I am not doing that at all.

The ability to load more stacks at once does more overall damage then spreading them out over a period of time. The impairing takes another 20 seconds in order to be able to apply 3 more poison. That 20 seconds is 20 seconds more time for the players condition cleanses to come off cooldown.

To needle trap there more bleeds then poisons. You get your 10 percent more damage to your bleeds off that might (a number i think overstated but in any case I will accept it) Poison gives 50 percent more base damage per tick before any bonuses and added to that you can get a further 33 percent more bonus to those poisons over bleeds from potent poison.

Trust me I use these in a p/p hybrid build. I went back and forth between the two and spider venom/skale combo does much more damage and delivers that damage more effectively.

I went bandits defense/skale/spider venom for weeks on end then rotated with bandits defense/Imapring/needle trap for weeks on end and did more damage using the venoms this not even traiting lower venom cooldown. I can still take trappers respite and take panic strike instead of deadly trapper.

Now to your might off the traps. I am not concerned about might in a p/p hyrbrid as my build can get that to the maximum stacks quite readily. You speak about vulnerability. I also get that off skale. I can apply that might at will rather then hope it off a trap and time that might stacking for when I get the most conditions loaded.

What I have in essense is two sources of spike condition damage. if one not cleansed I can followup with might stacking off the PP for harder ticks.

I also prefer weakening stikes out of the DD line over brawlers in my build. This gives me a high uptime on weakness from all those sources and that 10 percent weakness damage mitigation does not need to be triggered off just a critical strike. I get that with any app of poison. I prefer 10 percent damage mitigation over more endurance.

Can I bother you both to post a gw2skills link to I can look over the builds you are using/proposing?