Guild Wars 2

Jana.6831:

Maugetarr.6823:

You are conflating multiple effects, or impacts with passivity. Which effect of an attack like impairing daggers is passive?

You refuse to get the point – a dual skill that defends and attacks at the same time in a bulk is just as bad as having multiple invulnerabilities – maybe even worse (depends)
I don’t give a kitten what babaa and you think how the term should be used.

I gave my definition you are giving yours. The only real authority as to how they are defined in the game is ANET.

@ baba: No, they aren’t – you can throw your oxford dictionary at me or get away from “how things should be defined” and get what has been said and discuss that.

I think anet has left this game long ago btw.

ETA: If you don’t have to think because your skill carries you it’s lazy. It’s nice if it’s just a few, it’s bad if your playstyle is defined by it. And thus dual skills are no better than passives.

Jana.6831:

@ baba: No, they aren’t – you can throw your oxford dictionary at me or get away from “how things should be defined” and get what has been said and discuss that.

I think anet has left this game long ago btw.

ETA: If you don’t have to think because your skill carries you it’s lazy. It’s nice if it’s just a few, it’s bad if your playstyle is defined by it. And thus dual skills are no better than passives.

No one threw anything at you Jana . I expressed my opinion as to what an active and passive meant. the post I made was not responding to one you made. This is no more “throwing an oxford dictionary meaning at you” then you are throwing one at me.

Jana.6831:

@ baba: No, they aren’t – you can throw your oxford dictionary at me or get away from “how things should be defined” and get what has been said and discuss that.

I think anet has left this game long ago btw.

ETA: If you don’t have to think because your skill carries you it’s lazy. It’s nice if it’s just a few, it’s bad if your playstyle is defined by it. And thus dual skills are no better than passives.

Actually defining what we mean is a necessary step to moving forward which we seem to be doing.There’s nothing fundamentally wrong with a counterattack skill in the game,the problem you are identifying are poorly designed skills that are too rewarding for their level of effort.

Deathblossom is a key example of this. It is very rewarding for the level of effort you put into it at this point. Shadowshot is another skill we’ve agreed on in the past which could use lower damage for what it does. The problem is that these skills are slightly overtuned. Shadowshot is well designed in terms of mechanics, the damage is just too high for the effect. I think deathblossom has the damage and length of the evade generally in the right place, but the skill floor needs to be raised on it. This is why I and people like DecieverX have suggested adding a directional aiming system to it and lengthening the travel of it because it would make all the hits more difficult to land and offer more counterplay to the opponent.

I actually think Staff #3 is excellently designed as it has a pretty decent self-limitation in that it rolls you backward. This limits the damage output as successive uses will often not hit and limit the followup attacks as it rolls you out of melee range.

Mauge: That isn’t the point.
The point is that this game has become brainless all around. I already wrote about DB and explained why it has once been a great skill (and if traited vanilla still is) – the problem is everything new.

ETA: And why on earth do I have to fight to be able to play my class (and spec)? is there anything sader than that (in a game)?!

Jana.6831:

Mauge: That isn’t the point.
The point is that this game has become brainless all around. I already wrote about DB and explained why it has once been a great skill (and if traited vanilla still is) – the problem is everything new.

ETA: And why on earth do I have to fight to be able to play my class (and spec)? is there anything sader than that (in a game)?!

That is the point though. I’m trying to push towards the direction of improving underperfoming sets while toning down key abilities here and there that might be slightly over the top. Daredevil is actually pretty well put together. I hope that acro eventually gets the same considerations and cohesiveness.

Put daredevil into the game before June and it’s ridiculously OP – put any of the “metabuilds” in there and it’s ridiculously OP as well.
The problem is that hitting someone has become RNG – and instead of fixing it they’re adding more RNG. You can only save “underperforming” classes by adding more passives and “dual skills” (which are passives as well).
Buut, by the looks of it I’m pretty much out of the game as I can’t take another 7 months of frustration and “you’re not welcome here”.
So you can add your directional skill to DB which would destroy the set for me.

ETA: (you’ll stick to D/P anyway – oh and just because it says “put your camera on max speed” doesn’t mean it’s for everyone – you should lower it a bit to handle your gameplay better – just something I noticed).

Jana.6831:

Put daredevil into the game before June and it’s ridiculously OP – put any of the “metabuilds” in there and it’s ridiculously OP as well.
The problem is that hitting someone has become RNG – and instead of fixing it they’re adding more RNG. You can only save “underperforming” classes by adding more passives and “dual skills” (which are passives as well).
Buut, by the looks of it I’m pretty much out of the game as I can’t take another 7 months of frustration and “you’re not welcome here”.
So you can add your directional skill to DB which would destroy the set for me.

ETA: (you’ll stick to D/P anyway – oh and just because it says “put your camera on max speed” doesn’t mean it’s for everyone – you should lower it a bit to handle your gameplay better – just something I noticed).

They didn’t add any dual skills though. The only change they made to a dual skill was to increase the forward evade frames of deathblossom. Arcing strike is the close combat equivalent of SB#3. What in Daredevil is RNG? D/D was underperforming for a long time before this patch hit, it just took a magnifying glass to it. I’m not trying to add anymore passive skills either. Some stuff needs to be fixed and improved. They took a sledgehammer to the super-tank builds this last time so we’re performing semi-decently now. The goal should be to bring everything up to par. We and warriors didn’t get any nerfs this last go around so it appears that we’re the sort of baseline that they’re going off of now. The goal should be to suggest things to bring everything we have up to par around that baseline and hammer down a couple of the outliers. Complaining how it’s not the good old days doesn’t help.

babazhook.6805:

A passive skill is one that does not require active keyboard intervention my the players part to trigger.

Maugetarr.6823:

A passive effect is something that triggers on the controlling player that they don’t actually have control over.

This is how ArenaNet defines a passive that is contrary to both of your understanding of it.

Signet of Malice: Passive: Heals when you attack.

As you can see, a passive effect is something additional to the actual effect of the skill. A heartseeker has no mean to give Thief stealth, however, when they leap through a smoke, HS get’s a passive effect that give Thief stealth.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Maugetarr.6823:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Maugetarr.6823:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Maugetarr.6823:

Except that I actively used the dodge saving the endurance for the burst and repositioned. Had it not done damage there would be no question about using the dodge actively. In this scenario with damage both the dodge and the damage were active components of play. I didn’t mention hoping to dodge the burst, I kept enough endurance to wait for it and dodge it.

You said, “You aimed your dodge in an attempt to damage them using it as an attack”, thus the intention is clear that your goal is to do damage and relying on evade to passively negate the damage.

However, if you Bound backwards and happen to do damage to someone else, that damage is passive.

Here’s the thing. You mentioned intention here for the determination of a passive or active attack. Say I have untraited dodges with the endurance to use them and the availability of deathblossom. I have the choice of using either. I choose to use deathblossom because I want to counterattack. The intent is to both evade the damage and deal damage back to them. Neither effect is passive there.

The evade is passive.
- If you’re trying to evade target-1 and do damage to target-1, then the evade is passive in this scenario.
- If you’re trying to evade target-1 and damages target-2, then the damage is passive.
- If you’re trying to evade backward from target-1 but target-1 shadowstep to you then you happen to deal damage to target-1, the damage is still the passive.

Let’s blur the lines more. Is a skill that reflects a projectile passive or active.

Let’s use the engi flamethrower airblast as the example here. My intent is to stop a kill shot from hitting me. I could dodge it. I choose to reflect it instead. Is the reflection passive? It deals the kill shot back to the warrior. It seems that by your stance on counterattacking would define the reflected shot as a passive effect.

I think the confusion here is the difference between activated vs passive and skill vs effect.

Dodge is an activated skill, but the evade that comes with the dodge is the passive effect.

Activating a skill to apply a reflect effect is obviously not passive, since it is an activated skill. Once the skill is activated, the reflect effect does its thing without addition user input, thus it is passive.

Attacks can have both offensive and defensive aspects to them. That doesn’t make them passive. Deathblossom is not passive, just poorly designed because it’s spammable.

Nobody is saying that DB is passive, rather it has a passive effect depending on how you use it.

Let me put it this way. A boulder thrown by a snow wurm can hit multiple times (I know, used them for daily dodges). If you dodge the boulder, the evade effect will proc multiple times. If evade is not passive, then I will have to activate dodge for each possible hits making multiple activate evades. The fact that I don’t have to actively evade means that the evade effect is passive.

You are trying to separate cause and effect by way of duration. Under this classification, any cleave damage or an attack with multiple impacts would be considered a passive attack.

The attack is an activated skill — the hits, on the other hand, are not. The hit is one of the effects of the attack since the effect of an attack is either a hit or a miss. The initial hit is a direct result of activating the attack, the additional hits are passive effects.

That is a specious argument. That’s like saying you stabbed someone but didn’t kill them because they died of exsanguination.

Bleeding is another passive effect from DB. If they died from bleeding, then they died from bleeding. If you exhaust your initiative from using DB and your target died from multiple stacks of bleeding condition, then yes, they bled to death.

So, lets just speed up the argument and go with this conclusion.

runeblade.7514:

According to this thread, Everything is a passive.

• Auto attack is a passive.
• Boons is a passive.
• Weapon skills is passive.
• Utility skills is passive
• Elite skills is passive.
• Healing skills is passive.
• Immunity is a passive.
• Burst skills is a passive.
• Offensive support is a passive.
• Actives is a passive.
• Passive is passive.