Guild Wars 2

In the beginning, long before release, I decided I wanted to play the thief. This was mostly due to role play reasons, but I also tend to gravitate to rogue type classes in RPGs. I used a thief in every beta and stress test, and I used a thief in head start and the months following. But then I just couldn’t take it; the vulnerability, the dependence on steal, the dependence on stealth. So I abandoned the thief and re-rolled, becoming an engineer.

Recently I started going back to my first choice. Problems with the engineer were driving me back to the thief, and I began to search for elements of my old Guild Wars ranger within this new profession. I found preparations in the form of venoms, and I knew we had traps already. But the main thing, my greatest joy from the thief, was the shortbow. I was holding out hope, foolishly, that we would see a trap buff to make them viable. And that these traps when combined with a shortbow –and perhaps a venom on occasion- would give me a play style I loved from the profession I wanted to love.

But then June 25th happened.

Traps saw no change, and venoms remain unimpressive. But the worst thing, the deal breaker, was the shortbow nerf. With such limited range I just can’t use it properly, as I was dependent on that range to properly aim the ground targeted skills. Now I can really only reliably hit targets right on top of me, and that defeats the purpose of a ranged weapon. More and more it seems that thieves are simply intended to be melee classes, and more and more I find myself struggling to cope.

So that’s that. No more. I am again abandoning the thief, and this time for good. The last shred of enjoyment I got out of the profession has been destroyed, there is nothing for me here. Goodbye thief, and the thief community. It was fun while it lasted.

If you really loved the profession and it really matched your playstyle, you would not leave it.
But I guess you’re rerolling to the next FotM.

So, bye.

sorrow.2364:

If you really loved the profession and it really matched your playstyle, you would not leave it.

Exactly. The thief doesn’t match my play style, and the closest thing it had has now been nerfed into the ground and completely destroyed. So why keep playing it?

And your FotM comment just makes you look ignorant.

Arkham Creed.7358:

Exactly. The thief doesn’t match my play style, and the closest thing it had has now been nerfed into the ground and completely destroyed. So why keep playing it?

And your FotM comment just makes you look ignorant.

Yeah, right.
The 300 range nerf is a “nerf to the ground”.

The FotM comment doesn’t make me look ignorant, it is just the logical conclusion.
You’re asking the thief to be stronger as you want to be. You’re not adapting to the profession as it is because you like it but you’re asking for buffs. You’re not enjoying the game as it is, but you feel weak at the point you need to quit your profession and asking for buffs. That is the typical mindset of a FotM player. Sorry if it looks like it.

thief in this game has no role or match to lore. thief in this game is basically a souped DOWN warrior with a bit of stealth. or mobility has been incredibly nerfed for every large patch now. pathing for all shadow steps traps and returns are bunk. thief had no place in game before patch and now its worse. :P

if anyone would like to tell me where are place is im all ears. and plz dont say cluster bomb nerfing pre battle. nobody wants to be THAT guy that just does 1 thing. and venom share too. the build CAN help the zerg a lil but you really dont do anything other than share. shortbow is what works well with that build and not SB isnt viable in a wide open area like wvw .

sorrow.2364:

Arkham Creed.7358:

Exactly. The thief doesn’t match my play style, and the closest thing it had has now been nerfed into the ground and completely destroyed. So why keep playing it?

And your FotM comment just makes you look ignorant.

Yeah, right.
The 300 range nerf is a “nerf to the ground”.

The FotM comment doesn’t make me look ignorant, it is just the logical conclusion.
You’re asking the thief to be stronger as you want to be. You’re not adapting to the profession as it is because you like it but you’re asking for buffs. That is the typical mindset of a FotM player. Sorry if it looks like it.

Sorrow, you’re right. Most MMO’s require the player to Adapt Patch after patch after patch after patch, changing specs, gears, runes, sigils and playstyle as the dev’s flail wildly, making seemingly random changes.

While I respect your right to have an opinion, it’s painful to interact with someone who is so consistently wrong.

@sorrow its nto a nerf to the ground. but its not different than nerfing it to 600 bc we still cant get to the top of walls or far enough out from the top of the walls. wvw and pve shortbow is bunk. which really kitten es me off bc i have a dreamer. NOBODY anywhere to my knowledge has EVER complained about ANY shortbow skill on any thief anywhere! yes go find me 1 post out of 500,000 posts to support an anti argument. lol point stands.

Arguing against the nerf of an ability that has been considered acceptable between now and all the way back into beta is not “asking for buffs.”

sorrow.2364:

Arkham Creed.7358:

Exactly. The thief doesn’t match my play style, and the closest thing it had has now been nerfed into the ground and completely destroyed. So why keep playing it?

And your FotM comment just makes you look ignorant.

Yeah, right.
The 300 range nerf is a “nerf to the ground”.

The FotM comment doesn’t make me look ignorant, it is just the logical conclusion.
You’re asking the thief to be stronger as you want to be. You’re not adapting to the profession as it is because you like it but you’re asking for buffs. You’re not enjoying the game as it is, but you feel weak at the point you need to quit your profession and asking for buffs. That is the typical mindset of a FotM player. Sorry if it looks like it.

Does a typical flavor of the month player stick with a profession for seven months trying to adapt to it? Aside from the thief I’ve spent a few months as an engineer. That is two professions since beta. Hardly a flavor of the month player jumping around to whatever is considered “cool” each moment. And I can’t help the fact that thief traps are complete garbage and need a buff. Or is there some other reason that no one uses them? You sound like a thief fan-boy who thinks any criticism of the profession and any player’s reasons for leaving it are nothing but whining and demands for unbalanced and unfair buffs.

Enjoy running around and backstabbing people from stealth like any one-note, brain-dead WoW player; it’s about the only thing the thief can actually do at this point. Some of us want a profession with a little more depth than a glass-cannon and with a little more versatility than backstab/heartseeker spam.

Ark, Just ignore Sorrow. A few minutes with his post history will show he has absolutely no idea what he’s talking about.

well trying to be positive here but im workin on testing a 10 30 0 0 30 rampagers build. :P heres hoping we have a chance. btw shadow trap sucks. get stuck on everything i keep trying it just cant make it work.

Travlane.5948:

well trying to be positive here but im workin on testing a 10 30 0 0 30 rampagers build. :P heres hoping we have a chance. btw shadow trap sucks. get stuck on everything i keep trying it just cant make it work.

That is one of my biggest problems with this patch. The whole point was to re-balance the professions to give them more viable builds to choose from, and buff builds that seemed too weak. Yet what is hands down the most useless utility type thieves have (show me one viable thief build that uses traps) was completely ignored. And even if they did have some uses before that doesn’t change the fact that ranger traps are simply objectively better because they create persistent combo fields, affect a larger area, and can be traited for ground targeting.

Honestly I’d like to know why thieves have traps at all.

i think the only form of protest we can really do, is not to log anymore…
there are certain other games that are better than lol nerf wars 2…shame, i had hopes for it too (feeling a bit disappointed inside)

fixed

pistol and traps and poisons were basically ignored. srry torment is cool but 45 secs makes it useless / a liability. yeah i think that i would def like for anet to give specific examples about what our role is in the game in pvp wvw and pve. without saying stupid things :P ….i mean they cant think we are usefull do they?

+1 for danH …im very very very close myself. if i dont make this rampagers build work im done. sorry but p/d d/p is getting boring and its not really useable in wvw/spvp ….single target dmg (unless your doing alot like months ago) is just not viable in wvw and invis is not viable in spvp/tpvp.

Weapon Sets as to builds

Shortbow – it was really only the viable weapon for secondary weaponset unless your a niche build
Double Dagger bleeder – my build since day 1 – saw a buff
Dagger/Pistol – still optimal
Pistol/Pistol – still not really viable even with slight enhancements
Sword/Pistol – not optimal, but doable
Pistol/Dagger – still not really viable
Shortbow – as stated, it was only viable secondary before june 25

Axes – (melee versions, as seen in the hands of a char thief npc in blood legion personal story, where are they?)

The goal wasnt achieved, thieves recieved in fact less diversity instead of gaining more diversity.

This reminds me of SWG cu and the death of many classes such as creature handler and bio engineer.

In Anets corner, they only kitten ed of 15% – 30% fanbois, so 8% of their playerbase by changing 1 staple secondary ability range.

sorrow.2364:

The FotM comment doesn’t make me look ignorant, it is just the logical conclusion.

If that constitutes ‘logic’ for you, then you shouldn’t be surprised if others find you look ignorant because of it.

Arkham Creed.7358:

… I began to search for elements of my old Guild Wars ranger within …

What’s wrong with Ranger? Apparently beastmaster is rather viable.

frans.8092:

What’s wrong with Ranger? Apparently beastmaster is rather viable.

Partly I’ve heard that rangers got bludgeon with the nerf bat worse than any other profession, especially pets. But mostly it’s because my heart was never really with the ranger. I’m a hardcore role player and I only picked the ranger because it was the closest thing the original game had to what I really wanted to play.

folly dragon.4126:

Weapon Sets as to builds

Shortbow – it was really only the viable weapon for secondary weaponset unless your a niche build
Double Dagger bleeder – my build since day 1 – saw a buff
Dagger/Pistol – still optimal
Pistol/Pistol – still not really viable even with slight enhancements
Sword/Pistol – not optimal, but doable
Pistol/Dagger – still not really viable
Shortbow – as stated, it was only viable secondary before june 25

Axes – (melee versions, as seen in the hands of a char thief npc in blood legion personal story, where are they?)

The goal wasnt achieved, thieves recieved in fact less diversity instead of gaining more diversity.

This reminds me of SWG cu and the death of many classes such as creature handler and bio engineer.

In Anets corner, they only kitten ed of 15% – 30% fanbois, so 8% of their playerbase by changing 1 staple secondary ability range.

the only build i hate playing AGAINST with p/d is against d/p. p/d is MUCH MUCH better than d/p. the only way its not is when u compare it aginst each other then its a draw.

Why people think that ANet nerf things based on what people complain about?
Shortbow was nerfed due to design choices.
It is a SHORTbow, it is probably supposed to have a shorter range compared to LONGbow, right? At least, in GW1 it was like that.

You guys are exaggerating. 300 less range doesn’t make Cluster Bomb useless. At all.

Arkham Creed.7358:

Does a typical flavor of the month player stick with a profession for seven months trying to adapt to it? Aside from the thief I’ve spent a few months as an engineer. That is two professions since beta. Hardly a flavor of the month player jumping around to whatever is considered “cool” each moment. And I can’t help the fact that thief traps are complete garbage and need a buff. Or is there some other reason that no one uses them? You sound like a thief fan-boy who thinks any criticism of the profession and any player’s reasons for leaving it are nothing but whining and demands for unbalanced and unfair buffs.

Enjoy running around and backstabbing people from stealth like any one-note, brain-dead WoW player; it’s about the only thing the thief can actually do at this point. Some of us want a profession with a little more depth than a glass-cannon and with a little more versatility than backstab/heartseeker spam.

I’m saying that this kind of demonstration is ridiculous.
“I’m leaving this profession because they did not buffed venoms and traps”. That is the philosophy I hate. I never said that they don’t need a buff or a rework, I’m just saying that this topic is a joke and it is completely useless. Period.

Thief isn’t unplayable. It is strong and has some strong utilities.
Venom has some niche builds, so do traps.

If you want more depth instead of just playing glass cannon with backstab/heartseeker spam, just don’t play those builds.
There are other builds viable. Play those builds.

If you don’t like how the thief feels, probably it isn’t your profession.
ArenaNet decides how design the professions, you can do nothing to make them change idea. If they decided the Thief is supposed to be the high-mobile burst profession, you can’t just come here and ask to completely rework it to match what you want it to be.

People enjoy Thief as it is (excluding some people who actually enjoy complaining on forum about how it is weak instead of playing it). They deserve to have their fun with their profession as much you do.

Longbow – 1500 range when traited
Shortbow – 1200 range, no trait to increase
Rifles -1200 range
Warrior Longbow – 1000 when traited (this needs increased then as realistically longbows shoot further then shortbows, to at least 1200
Pistols – 900 (eng 1000 when traited) (pistols shoot farther then shortbows? maybe more modern versions)

Furthermore, rifles even with open sight could shoot farther then a longbow.

So the logic is flawed, however, old lock and load rifles would often jamb to where 12 arrows could be released before reloaded.

There is no justification for the changes to any of the ranges, damage increases and deductions however couldve been justifiable

i didnt read everything here but i see many people complaining about traps, has no1 noticed the shadow trap change? the return now works as a stun breaker, also it has 10k range! this means you can place this trap before going into battle, do your damage and when you are about to die you return, instantly out of combat and safe. how’s that not good? dont even get me started about sPvP placing this on points to travel back quickly

sorrow.2364:

Why people think that ANet nerf things based on what people complain about?
Shortbow was nerfed due to design choices.

Nerfs, by definition, are supposed to be based on BALANCE not “design choice”.
ugh!

It is a SHORTbow, it is probably supposed to have a shorter range compared to LONGbow, right? At least, in GW1 it was like that.

meh! You call that an argument?

You guys are exaggerating. 300 less range doesn’t make Cluster Bomb useless. At all.

It was repeated over and over and over again. The uselessness of the Cluster Bomb is within the context of WvW.

Taking it out of context shows that you’re fond of fallacies.

I’m saying that this kind of demonstration is ridiculous.
“I’m leaving this profession because they did not buffed venoms and traps”. That is the philosophy I hate. I never said that they don’t need a buff or a rework, I’m just saying that this topic is a joke and it is completely useless. Period.

So why do you even care? If he wants to leave, then let him. Everyone else who feels the same way may do the same thing.

Thief isn’t unplayable.

Nobody said that they are. Your premise is a fallacy.(1)

It is strong and has some strong utilities.

Another fallacy.(2)

Venom has some niche builds, so do traps.

Yet another fallacy.(3)

If you want more depth instead of just playing glass cannon with backstab/heartseeker spam, just don’t play those builds.
There are other builds viable. Play those builds.

Like what build? They just ruined S/D for PvE since Anet didn’t realize that a Level 83 Champion Mob is not comparable to a Level 80 PvP Player.

If you don’t like how the thief feels, probably it isn’t your profession.

Stating the obvious.

ArenaNet decides how design the professions, you can do nothing to make them change idea. If they decided the Thief is supposed to be the high-mobile burst profession, you can’t just come here and ask to completely rework it to match what you want it to be.

The OP wasn’t asking “to completely rework it”, he was leaving.

Another false premise.(4)

People enjoy Thief as it is (excluding some people who actually enjoy complaining on forum about how it is weak instead of playing it). They deserve to have their fun with their profession as much you do.

lol.

So, “They deserve to have their fun with their profession” in the expense of “some people who actually enjoy complaining on forum about how it is weak instead of playing it”?

If the goal is equal enjoyment, then you just made another false premise.(5)

Wow, never seen so many false statements before. O.o

Go and try shadow trap…

Sir Vincent III.1286:

CUT

Why did I bothered to read this wall of no-sense?
You just said false, false, false without giving any reasoning backing up what you say.
Do you want to have a discussion or your only purpose is to annoy people?

sorrow.2364:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

CUT

Why did I bothered to read this wall of no-sense?
You just said false, false, false without giving any reasoning backing up what you say.
Do you want to have a discussion or your only purpose is to annoy people?

The burden of proof is in your court.

Don’t you know that your point is false unless supported to be not false?

Well, I guess that would be too much for someone with such wisdom as yours.

My apologies. I stand corrected — you speak the absolute truth.

Can I have your stuff?

Kabuki.9103:

Can I have your stuff?

He gave me his stuff. I can share it though.

To Sorrow: I wasn’t demanding anything. I was merely making a polite exit, and attempting to say goodbye to a subsection of the Guild Wars 2 community I’ve been with since beta, and who have given me tons of advice and words of encouragement over the last several months. But by your posts I can see the subtleties of tact, diplomacy, and manners are beyond you.

To Kabuki: I’m not quitting the game; just moving to a new profession. Everything that can carry over to other characters is going right to them, everything else is either getting salvaged or tossed on the trading post. So no; you can’t have my stuff.

sorrow.2364:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

CUT

Why did I bothered to read this wall of no-sense?
You just said false, false, false without giving any reasoning backing up what you say.
Do you want to have a discussion or your only purpose is to annoy people?

95% of it was correct :P the only thing right was venoms do have ONE very small niche. venom share in wvw which IRONICALLY makes our venoms weak by default lol. funny how that works :P

sorrow.2364:

Why people think that ANet nerf things based on what people complain about?
Shortbow was nerfed due to design choices.
It is a SHORTbow, it is probably supposed to have a shorter range compared to LONGbow, right? At least, in GW1 it was like that.

You guys are exaggerating. 300 less range doesn’t make Cluster Bomb useless. At all.

You could just reach the top of the walls with 1200 range, meaning you can’t now. Similarly, from the wall you could just reach the ground below, but not any more. Meaning there’s no reason to carry a short-bow any more. And if it’s about ‘design’ why not give bows a larger range when ‘going down’, similar to GW1

I’m just saying that this topic is a joke and it is completely useless. Period.

Then why do you post in it?

If you want more depth instead of just playing glass cannon with backstab/heartseeker spam, just don’t play those builds.
There are other builds viable. Play those builds.

They get less and less viable every patch – and just when you thought they’d finally give them a boost, they hit them in the next patch.

ArenaNet decides how design the professions, you can do nothing to make them change idea.

So, why have all the other weaponsets? They were part of the design, weren’t they.

@ sorrow

if if players that ACTUALLY MAIN thief wanna come quite rant complain boast or show gratification they are welcome. they purchased the game…prolly paid to play somewhere along the line and have every right as a consumer. dont rant block a brotha :P anet reads these forums for a reason. feedback to improve gameplay and keep consumers happy. happy consumers = spending money and also happy consumers= spread the word about great games which = spending more money! if u dont agree with this there would never have been a thief nerf to begin with. think about it

Arkham Creed.7358:

To Sorrow: I wasn’t demanding anything. I was merely making a polite exit, and attempting to say goodbye to a subsection of the Guild Wars 2 community I’ve been with since beta, and who have given me tons of advice and words of encouragement over the last several months. But by your posts I can see the subtleties of tact, diplomacy, and manners are beyond you.

To Kabuki: I’m not quitting the game; just moving to a new profession. Everything that can carry over to other characters is going right to them, everything else is either getting salvaged or tossed on the trading post. So no; you can’t have my stuff.

I have an 80 mesmer, warrior, guardian, engineer, and thief. All of which I played in WvW. Now I just play thief.

So can I have your thief stuff?

Fuzzion.2504:

Kabuki.9103:

Can I have your stuff?

He gave me his stuff. I can share it though.

This is the thieves forum – shouldn’t we be planning a heist to steal it?

Magische Boek.2530:

i didnt read everything here but i see many people complaining about traps, has no1 noticed the shadow trap change? the return now works as a stun breaker, also it has 10k range! this means you can place this trap before going into battle, do your damage and when you are about to die you return, instantly out of combat and safe. how’s that not good? dont even get me started about sPvP placing this on points to travel back quickly

Yeah, well, that’s the theory. Flawless and clean….

In practice is more like… “Time to go!! Activating telepo… Whut? Where the hell am Iaaaarrghhh” *chop *chop *chop

“Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game. They are able to help allies through traps, venoms and the mobility to flank most encounters.”

Design concept of thieves according to ANet. (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012/first#post999247)

I can’t see where ArenaNet said that Thief is supposed to be good at long range.
In that topic there are also listed which professions are supposed to be effective at long range but, as you can see, thief is not one of those.

They aren’t supposed to be a Cluster Bomb turrets. If you want to get free badges when attacking or defending a castle, either build and use an Arrowcart, or change profession to another which is supposed to do the WvWvW turret, like Elementalist, Ranger, Necro or Engineer.
If all the professions should have all the same capabilities, why can’t I roam with my Necro as I do with my Thief?

Arkham Creed.7358:

To Sorrow: I wasn’t demanding anything. I was merely making a polite exit, and attempting to say goodbye to a subsection of the Guild Wars 2 community I’ve been with since beta, and who have given me tons of advice and words of encouragement over the last several months. But by your posts I can see the subtleties of tact, diplomacy, and manners are beyond you.

Well, to me, your topic sounds more like another rant than a goodbye.
If you wanted it to look like a goodbye, you should have wrote a different OP.

sorrow.2364:

… They aren’t supposed to be a Cluster Bomb turrets. If you want to get free badges when attacking or defending a castle, either build and use an Arrowcart, or change profession to another which is supposed to do the WvWvW turret, like Elementalist, Ranger, Necro or Engineer.
If all the professions should have all the same capabilities, why can’t I roam with my Necro as I do with my Thief?

First, no one wants free badges, thieves work as hard as everyone else to get them.

Second, dont confuse efectiveness with mechanics. A necro may not have the same roaming efectiveness as a thief but they certainly can roam. However, a thief may not fire at 1200 range, while every other class in the game can do it (regardless of efectiveness).

Kyrion.2749:

First, no one wants free badges, thieves work as hard as everyone else to get them.

Second, dont confuse efectiveness with mechanics. A necro may not have the same roaming efectiveness as a thief but they certainly can roam. However, a thief may not fire at 1200 range, while every other class in the game can do it (regardless of efectiveness).

Do you think that roaming as a Necro is different from a suicide?
I don’t know if you ever roamed as a Necro and you met an enemy zerg.

I guess that a Necro is also capable to stealth a mesmer in an enemy castle.

I gotta agree with OP on the playstyle aspect of thief. It really is a watered down warrior with stealth sprinkled here and there, which isn’t even used for stealth its used for backstabbing.

For those moaning about roaming; that’s not the game. Yeah, a burst D/D thief can roam quite effectively and pick off bad players within instants. But, a good player? No, you can’t pick them off like that and it would become a sustained fight — and thieves aren’t all that great in sustained damage. If you dare complain about you being unable to roam on your Necromancer, you really have to learn how to use its massive conditions to literally smack everything around, including stealthies.

Zepidel.5349:

I gotta agree with OP on the playstyle aspect of thief. It really is a watered down warrior with stealth sprinkled here and there, which isn’t even used for stealth its used for backstabbing.

Well sure one can say that about axe/dagger necro also; and sword/gs ranger. So what?

A lot of people have tunnel vision, and a lot of readers can easily agree with such opinions. IMO that does not make them right. There is no absolute truth here, it`s a subjective view of a profession.

Have fun playing your new chosen profession OP.

sorrow.2364:

“Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game. They are able to help allies through traps, venoms and the mobility to flank most encounters.”

Design concept of thieves according to ANet. (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012/first#post999247)

I can’t see where ArenaNet said that Thief is supposed to be good at long range.
In that topic there are also listed which professions are supposed to be effective at long range but, as you can see, thief is not one of those.

This is why most MMO devs refuse to release class definitions. Professions are dynamic, and the goalposts for success in their balance are constantly changing. The second you release an actual statement that statement is used as gospel forever. Anything within that statement must be adhered to strictly, and anything outside that statement is clearly unintentional and should be changed.

Tulisin.6945:

This is why most MMO devs refuse to release class definitions. Professions are dynamic, and the goalposts for success in their balance are constantly changing. The second you release an actual statement that statement is used as gospel forever. Anything within that statement must be adhered to strictly, and anything outside that statement is clearly unintentional and should be changed.

They just outlined what they wanted the Thief to be.
If they want to make every profession feel different, they HAVE to outline the feature of each profession and focus to archieve balance around those guidelines.
If you don’t, you’ll end to have every profession to feel the same. Of course there will be balance, but then it will feel extremely boring.

sorrow.2364:

Tulisin.6945:

This is why most MMO devs refuse to release class definitions. Professions are dynamic, and the goalposts for success in their balance are constantly changing. The second you release an actual statement that statement is used as gospel forever. Anything within that statement must be adhered to strictly, and anything outside that statement is clearly unintentional and should be changed.

They just outlined what they wanted the Thief to be.
If they want to make every profession feel different, they HAVE to outline the feature of each profession and focus to archieve balance around those guidelines.
If you don’t, you’ll end to have every profession to feel the same. Of course there will be balance, but then it will feel extremely boring.

They do have to outline it, but they should do it internally, like most dev teams. Releasing profession definitions has never not been a terrible idea in the long term.

Tulisin.6945:

They do have to outline it, but they should do it internally, like most dev teams. Releasing profession definitions has never not been a terrible idea in the long term.

That is your opinion.
People needs to know what they are playing and what they should expect from future changes.
If they didn’t, it would happen that people start playing Thief hoping to be a different profession and rage on each patch because he expects changes that won’t come because they don’t match the developers’ design of the Thief profession. Pretty much like the OP, who doesn’t looks like he has read the devs’ descripiton of Thief.

sorrow.2364:

“Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game. They are able to help allies through traps, venoms and the mobility to flank most encounters.”

Design concept of thieves according to ANet. (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012/first#post999247)

I can’t see where ArenaNet said that Thief is supposed to be good at long range.
In that topic there are also listed which professions are supposed to be effective at long range but, as you can see, thief is not one of those.

They aren’t supposed to be a Cluster Bomb turrets. If you want to get free badges when attacking or defending a castle, either build and use an Arrowcart, or change profession to another which is supposed to do the WvWvW turret, like Elementalist, Ranger, Necro or Engineer.
If all the professions should have all the same capabilities, why can’t I roam with my Necro as I do with my Thief?

Arkham Creed.7358:

To Sorrow: I wasn’t demanding anything. I was merely making a polite exit, and attempting to say goodbye to a subsection of the Guild Wars 2 community I’ve been with since beta, and who have given me tons of advice and words of encouragement over the last several months. But by your posts I can see the subtleties of tact, diplomacy, and manners are beyond you.

Well, to me, your topic sounds more like another rant than a goodbye.
If you wanted it to look like a goodbye, you should have wrote a different OP.

So we are using the class outline as gospel now? according to the outline thieves are masters of mobility, so why are our shadowsteps nerfed to the ground but mesmer can teleport through walls, up/down any obstacle, while we fail on a pebble or 1 degree slope, even NECRO retains an infinite range teleport

According to the outline mesmers have low health when you get past clones, yet we have lower health then mesmers, should they nerf mesmer health to bottom tier too? because the outline says so?

Thieves are masters of single target damage, yet killshot can do the same damage as backstab to an entire group at 1500 range (despite outline saying they are not strong at range, and are intended for melee)

Should i continue?

Shemsu.8721:

So we are using the class outline as gospel now? according to the outline thieves are masters of mobility, so why are our shadowsteps nerfed to the ground but mesmer can teleport through walls, up/down any obstacle, while we fail on a pebble or 1 degree slope, even NECRO retains an infinite range teleport

According to the outline mesmers have low health when you get past clones, yet we have lower health then mesmers, should they nerf mesmer health to bottom tier too? because the outline says so?

Thieves are masters of single target damage, yet killshot can do the same damage as backstab to an entire group at 1500 range (despite outline saying they are not strong at range, and are intended for melee)

Should i continue?

It looks like that you’re incredibly narrow-minded according to what you wrote.

Are you trying to say that Mesmer has better mobility compared to Thief?
Are you trying to say that Warrior’s single target burst damage is better than Thief’s?

If so, I think you should play the game more.

sorrow, stop. seriously. 2 seconds of looking at your post history is enough to utterly destroy anything you have to say about thieves. why? in this thread, you argue that a thief shouldn’t be a clusterbomb spamming blast finisher turret, and that they have viable support builds. yet…… in this thread here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Still-absolutely-abysmal/first#post2300952 you state that a thief should be a clusterbomb spamming blast finisher turrent, and that venom sharing is “the only viable support build”. you are literally contradicting yourself just to argue with people who play thieves. honestly, no one needs to debate anything with you, since you’re already contradicting yourself in the span of mere minutes.

looking quite a bit further back into your post history, in this thread from 7 months ago, you stated that you were fighting a personal war to nerf thieves: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Still-absolutely-abysmal/first#post2300952 and just like back then, you’re arguing just for the sake of arguing.

and here’s the kicker. you’re the same as you were all those months ago. you don’t like the thief class because it has stealth, so you say whatever you need to to argue with any point that’s brought up. in fact, taking an in depth look at your posting history, you’re arguing about how OP pretty much every single class except the necro(which you play) is, by using arguments that other people presented against you.

honestly, i would be humiliated by the clear hypocrisy on my part if i were to do such a thing. dignity and integrity will do that.

oh….. right…. here: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dignity?s=t and http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/integrity?s=t and here’s one for your posting history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29

Phantom.8130:

sorrow, stop. seriously. 2 seconds of looking at your post history is enough to utterly destroy anything you have to say about thieves. why? in this thread, you argue that a thief shouldn’t be a clusterbomb spamming blast finisher turret, and that they have viable support builds. yet…… in this thread here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Still-absolutely-abysmal/first#post2300952 you state that a thief should be a clusterbomb spamming blast finisher turrent, and that venom sharing is “the only viable support build”. you are literally contradicting yourself just to argue with people who play thieves. honestly, no one needs to debate anything with you, since you’re already contradicting yourself in the span of mere minutes.

looking quite a bit further back into your post history, in this thread from 7 months ago, you stated that you were fighting a personal war to nerf thieves: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Still-absolutely-abysmal/first#post2300952 and just like back then, you’re arguing just for the sake of arguing.

and here’s the kicker. you’re the same as you were all those months ago. you don’t like the thief class because it has stealth, so you say whatever you need to to argue with any point that’s brought up. in fact, taking an in depth look at your posting history, you’re arguing about how OP pretty much every single class except the necro(which you play) is, by using arguments that other people presented against you.

honestly, i would be humiliated by the clear hypocrisy on my part if i were to do such a thing. dignity and integrity will do that.

oh….. right…. here: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dignity?s=t and http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/integrity?s=t

So, is taking the post history of someone, pick some sentences out of their contest and time setting and use them against you an effective tactic to discredit someone?
Yeah, just like if in 7 months nothing happened. No patch were released.
There wasn’t any change to stealth mechanic (Revealed, uh?) or instagib builds (CnD and Mug?), right?

Is responding to my reasoning that hard that people feels forced to dig in my whole post history to find some straw to grasp at? You aren’t the first one to do so.

I don’t know if it’s you lack comprehension or I can’t write in english properly (if so, I’m sorry).
Cluster Bomb turret = someone who stand on walls in WvWvW using cluster bomb against people who are down or someone who is down and uses Cluster Bomb against people who are up on the walls.
Just in case you didn’t undestood.
How is this related to Blast Finishing?

Also, if you read my whole posts in the topic you linked with your brain set to “on” mode, you’ll realize that there is a difference between support and full support builds.

sorrow.2364:

Phantom.8130:

sorrow, stop. seriously. 2 seconds of looking at your post history is enough to utterly destroy anything you have to say about thieves. why? in this thread, you argue that a thief shouldn’t be a clusterbomb spamming blast finisher turret, and that they have viable support builds. yet…… in this thread here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Still-absolutely-abysmal/first#post2300952 you state that a thief should be a clusterbomb spamming blast finisher turrent, and that venom sharing is “the only viable support build”. you are literally contradicting yourself just to argue with people who play thieves. honestly, no one needs to debate anything with you, since you’re already contradicting yourself in the span of mere minutes.

looking quite a bit further back into your post history, in this thread from 7 months ago, you stated that you were fighting a personal war to nerf thieves: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Still-absolutely-abysmal/first#post2300952 and just like back then, you’re arguing just for the sake of arguing.

and here’s the kicker. you’re the same as you were all those months ago. you don’t like the thief class because it has stealth, so you say whatever you need to to argue with any point that’s brought up. in fact, taking an in depth look at your posting history, you’re arguing about how OP pretty much every single class except the necro(which you play) is, by using arguments that other people presented against you.

honestly, i would be humiliated by the clear hypocrisy on my part if i were to do such a thing. dignity and integrity will do that.

oh….. right…. here: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dignity?s=t and http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/integrity?s=t

So, is taking the post history of someone, pick some sentences out of their contest and time setting and use them against you an effective tactic to discredit someone?
Yeah, just like if in 7 months nothing happened. No patch were released.
There wasn’t any change to stealth mechanic (Revealed, uh?) or instagib builds (CnD and Mug?), right?

Is responding to my reasoning that hard that people feels forced to dig in my whole post history to find some straw to grasp at? You aren’t the first one to do so.

I don’t know if it’s you lack comprehension or I can’t write in english properly (if so, I’m sorry).
Cluster Bomb turret = someone who stand on walls in WvWvW using cluster bomb against people who are down or someone who is down and uses Cluster Bomb against people who are up on the walls.
Just in case you didn’t undestood.
How is this related to Blast Finishing?

Also, if you read my whole posts in the topic you linked with your brain set to “on” mode, you’ll realize that there is a difference between support and full support builds.

i’m not the one with the history of making things up to support a flawed argument, then switching around what i say, and say the complete opposite to support another flawed argument in a blatant personal war against something as ridiculous as a class in a video game. you, however…..: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/members/showposts/sorrow-2364/1

it’s all there in black and white. i don’t even need to say a word, you’ve done all the arguing on both sides of pretty much every topic already. you’re a troll, and not even a very good one at that. i’m just trying to save you further embarrassment. if you want to keep making a fool of yourself on an internet forum, be my guest.