How to beat D/P as D/D?

How to beat D/P as D/D?

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Posted by: Jrunyon.3012

Jrunyon.3012

Hi all, long time thief here with a quick question.

I was roaming one night and got absolutely wrecked by a D/P thief. I didn’t land one cloak and dagger the whole time and it was just completely frustrating. Usually by the end of fights I know what I did wrong and how to overcome it next time but for this encounter I’m stumped.

So, how does a D/D thief overcome a competent D/P thief?

Keep in mind this is WvW and I am running a 0/30/30/0/10 full valk power build.

Nesmee – Thief
[OHai] – Northern Shiverpeaks

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Posted by: Splatter Paw.7238

Splatter Paw.7238

Honestly our dagger 3 skill (deathblossom?) Works wonders for me against d/p but its heavy ini so use it sparingly. But you know they have seconds to BS so ill count to about 2 and hit the evade and watch very carefully for “evade” to pop as its a good tell to where there at. When they bp combo your stuck with a blind and need to land a CnD, I autto attack and the second the blind causes a miss I CnD, you know there gonna try to get behind you so it’s not hard landing it in a invis thief. I feel its WAY easier to down them while there invisible as opposed to fighting blinds. There’s a couple o other tips I have but im doing this on my phone lol ill edit it nice and neat with how I deal with d/p after my shift in acouple hours.

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Posted by: Rafahil.2857

Rafahil.2857

Try to use heartseekers to get away after he does his BP+HS combo. Really it helps a lot to make them waste their initiative, so play a waiting game and use heartseekers to get away whenever d/p builds use their black powder skill.

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Posted by: Dee Jay.2460

Dee Jay.2460

If the D/P guy is semi competent and you’re not surrounded by countless mobs, D/D doesn’t have a chance.

Black Powder basically makes using Cloak and Dagger impossible unless he somehow screws up. But in general D/P is a pretty hard-counter to and any build that relies on Cloak and Dagger.

However there is one way to penetrate the Blind field but it requires impeccable timing. It takes about half a second for the first Blind to be applied so if you time it well you can Mug + Backstab almost instantly from range.

You have to hope it’s enough to kill him or you’ll have to find targets other targets to cloak off of.

But yeah, there’s a reason everyone uses D/P even after the slight buff D/D received on December 10th.

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Posted by: hihey.1075

hihey.1075

D/D should always lose against D/P.
You absolutely need to land your CnD→Steal (you don’t have Mug, so that’s a problem because you lose DPS and put up less pressure on the D/P).
Also, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER open with Basilisk Venom. Any decent D/P will expect it and Shadowstep away. Rather, use it when he is trying to stealth with a B/P→HS combo, to interrupt him and make him waste initiative, which could force him to use Shadow Refuge after the Shadowstep to get stealth.

Then it’s only a matter of predicting when he will be going to attack you, to CnD on him and get the upper hand.
Another thing that works really well is the Shortbow, but sadly very few people know how to use it. I am playing D/P and I can easily kill any cookie cutter D/P thief just with my Shortbow (but since it takes longer I prefer using my main set as Headshot is really good).

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Posted by: RedSpectrum.1975

RedSpectrum.1975

Contrary to popular belief you can beat a DP as DD as long as the Dp is of lesser skill than you, you may not want to hear this but part of it requires being hit. When you feel hit is about to BS you, start AA’ing toward where you believe he is. Once he facestabs you since your back should have been away from him,, CnD and then BS him quickly. Normally I find that they HiS right after this, that’s when you should too. And then repeat. Yes you have to land CnD but this means your are dealing more damage over your stealth than he is. AA’ing is crucial as it will help clear blinds if you hit him in stealth, allowing for more cloak and daggers. If there are mobs, you can use those to stealth. Otherwise, if he is of the same or greater skill level, there is a high chance you will lose that matchup.

Shawtell, Zen Verani, Rayshia Howen, Iyado, Colace Nzoir, Arteel Fyrien [Teef]

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Posted by: Requiem.8769

Requiem.8769

1. Stay away from the powder
2. Stay away from his backstabs.
3. Have patience.

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Posted by: Cabrafull.1806

Cabrafull.1806

It’s very difficult. Usually what i do is when they combo Bp-Hs i time my CnD on their Hs and try to backstab while they are in stealth, if you can’t time that well you could basilisk venom with AA when they combo. Try to dodge Shadow shot and make him waste ini trying to get close to you. The little red circle in the floor is the black powder, never touch that kitten. Also if they try to escape or something stacking stealth with the combo stay near them because sometime they will hit you with HS and get the revealed debuff. Remember they are thief like you so i don’t think predicting bakcstab is that difficult so you could dodge that.

Edit: What hihey said

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Posted by: Jrunyon.3012

Jrunyon.3012

Yeah, I kind of figured that it would be a counter to my build, which is okay, it just means I have to work harder ;D

On another note, is there any thief weapon set that would counter it or would they just result in stalemates?

Thanks for all of the tips!

Nesmee – Thief
[OHai] – Northern Shiverpeaks

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Posted by: Gwalchgwn.1659

Gwalchgwn.1659

Another way is to C&D him while he’s stealthed. His location is very easy to deduce when he BP+HS. Since you used your’s later, you’ll be in stealth longer or he has to use BP again. This gives you more initiative than him.

I usually use backstab right after C&D to pressure his health. Even if he backstabs me now I’ll have acces to stealth earlier than him. (Though this way is risky without my first part of the fight, which doesn’t use D/D but S/P)

S/P work good if you’re able to dodge the blind on BP-cast. When he leaps, use pistolwhip. It’ll stun him before he hits you and thus prevents the stealth (while still using up his initiative). Follow with 1 or 2 swings from autoattack and then get distance again to dodge BP and stun HS again.
D/D is my second set because it does more damage, once my opponent is below 50% I’d cast basilisk venom and switch to D/D (sigil of hydromancy chills him and petrifies him, works very nice in shadowrefuge because the blast is the range of SR) and c&d/backstab him. (You can deduce his location due if basilisk hit him on the location he was during the cast. Otherwise you’ll notice it, this means you’ll have to decide, risk finding his location (difficult) or move out and prepare a second skirmish)

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GL – “The Afternoon’s Watch” [OATH]

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Posted by: Geiir.7603

Geiir.7603

Most d/p thieves do the error of clearing target before dropping black powder, therefore you won’t be blinded. What I do is try to abuse stealth in the same fashion. If I can I alway try to land a CnD on them (just see where they land with heartseeker and try that spot). See yishis newest video. I believe he’s fighting a d/p thief there and destroying him

Melder – Thief