Guild Wars 2

Depths.4051:

Then stay stealthed or whatever, it’s not an anti stealth trap it’s a trap that would stop you from running away and resetting. like a forced arena.

So the one trap guarentees safety from an entire class. because that class depends on mobility and stealth since they can’t fight toe to toe.

Your suggesting a single utility that removes the only advantages of an entire class in order to get a guaranteed win simply because they dared to attack you. Most of these suggestions that claim to even “even up a thieves OP-ness” really seek to make the non-thief OP.

Depths.4051:

Then stay stealthed or whatever, it’s not an anti stealth trap it’s a trap that would stop you from running away and resetting. like a forced arena.

Post 12/10, thieves have access to one long-duration stealth. It’s a utility, Shadow Refuge. It has a 60-second cooldown, and any player of any class can counter it if he knows what to look for.

Figure this one out, find which buttons in your build make him go slow(cripple or chill), find a button that makes you go fast (swiftness), and… poof, you now have a reasonable chance, gear and player skill being equal.

Consider one of the most important lessons that several thousand years of military history have taught our species: Speed is a really big deal.

Depths.4051:

Zacchary.6183:

And what should thieves get in return?

A greater sense of caution when you go to backstab someone, cause you might just be forced to see the fight through.

Yeah, this is called a nerf. Basically, you want thieves to be an easier loot bag by making the hardest attack to land even more punishing on a class that has nothing to take the blows.

No. L2P against thieves instead of waiting for mama anet to nerf the profession further.

[/thread]

Depths.4051:

MyCondolences.8172:

I think this topic proves thieves need to be buffed.

So basically thieve’s have been pigeon holed into 1 type of build bc we are lackluster at everything else. And it has been commented that other classes can be traited for similar mobility, have higher range then any of our teleports but obviously thieve’s arent a big enough of a threat to the general populace to build your character to counter and there is where the problem lies.

Basically your saying i dont want to sacrifice DPS/sustain/whatever to deal with thieves so nerf them instead.

^ah.. lol? srsly, no. I can get back stabbed down to 25% hp pretty much instantly by a thief, I’m medium armor with toughness as a secondary. I heal up pretty fast and knockback doing so, then if they start trying to spam I block and stun then apply conditions. Next thing I know they invis, I start spamming aoe, then I’m ooc. This battle scenario is pretty much how majority go. It’s all about the surprise with the first burst, then if thing’s don’t go right, they’re gone. You haven’t been reading my post if you think I want them nerfed. I want a mechanic to stop them from running that doesn’t involve nerfing at all.

Was waiting for you to say “then I’m downed” but instead they just fled. So in other words this OP thief build couldnt kill ya. What class are you so i can cry nerfs!!!

MrAmputatoes.6031:

The thief is about mobility, remove that and we have nothing besides stealth, which ANet nerfs every month because of fairweathers who don’t know how to pvp.

I don’t even feel like the thief is about anything anymore with how easy a warrior can run away with sword/warhorn+GS literally nothing can stop them if they desire. Dont forget these statements from anet conflict time to time as well. Once upon a time thief being “king of mobility” was a big part of the reasoning for the d/d ele nerfs back in the day.

@Op
While i applaud your mannerism in which you complained.. It honestly feels like every person just comes to thief forum to cry about our class while never ever playing it for themselves. Everyday there’s another nerf this nerf that the way to fix this with thief and that from non thief players while never showing video evidence of the encounter, or really understanding that most thieves have very little room for error in any fight. You mess up you die…alot of players just seem to think if they start a fight and seem to be winning they automatically should get the kill.

Nerfing shadow step is a terrible idea it is possibly the best stun-break we have. It is pretty much a bread and butter skill you must have on a thief these days to be effective against good players. Not to mention there’s already bugs going on in game with rubber-banding during steals/steps and getting stuck in terrain.

The thief already has very little going for it comparatively to the other classes. Ask yourself when you have double the health pool+stability uptime and passive regeneration on a warrior level do you really even need to be able to stealth or shadow step?

TL dr: It’s fine to vent frustration now and then but play a thief and realize just how rough life can be outside of a 1v1 before hollering nerfs/fixes it will also help you anticipate enemy thieves and their options as fights drag out.

Travlane.5948:

may i suggest playing one. go ahead…hop on a thief…get in that zerg. you will see how good you arent not being mean…just the truth. if u main on warrior/guardian u will be embarassed how bad you are when you finally play thief. thief takes skill. so we can be very good but still close to useless in zergs/bigger fights.

Thief (SB + D/?) is actually pretty awesome in zergs… you just can wear zerker and expect to get away with it.

Spammable blast finisher, spammable AOE poison, spammable AOE weakness, high mobility, high AOE dmg… zerg thief is a lot stronger than people give it credit for.

Oghier.7419:

Depths.4051:

Lol, so I should roll a certain class just to combat this?

No, you should realize that rock-paper-scissors applies. If you choose not to build for mobility, people who do will outrun you and thereby escape. Note, every class that isn’t a necro can build to be just as speedy as most thieves. For some, it’s quite easy.

If you choose a class/ build combination that is not especially fast, you have presumably built your character to be good at something else. You made a tradeoff. So did the thief player, when he rolled a class with the lowest possible HP, no block, no stability, no protection, no aegis, minimal group support and mediocre AoE.

“Lol”

bro… I think your forgetting something… thieves go INVISIBLE… key word here… now please understand, I’d chase them, IF I could see them…. I’d gladly change my build to chase thieves, and use pulls, if I could see them. Now, I thought ppl might not hate the idea so much, cause i mean really, I’m not asking that you be immobilized or stuck in a tiny space, im saying a small “arena” this implies that you have a nice bit of space, not enough to ooc, but a nice amount which you can’t run out of. I’d even settle for making it more difficult to ooc than just getting a certain distance away, so they can’t ooc and then immediately return, at least theyd have to heal up and get cd’s before coming again. So it might actually be worth looking for them. Rock-paper-scissors should apply by builds, not by class. I’d change my build if it made a difference, I change my traits constantly to change how I battle, unfortunately there’s no anti-invisible skill yet, so all i can do is aoe and watch for refuge, not that chasing something invisible does much good. Btw I’m an engineer someone was interested because they wanted to cry nerf on something in my class… dunno what needs nerfing honestly, we ain’t that op. As for speed, I roll 25% speed increase always, and if I thought I could find a thief before they ooc, Id put on my rocket boots and use my rifle for the immobilize and jump-shot. I thought that my suggestion would actually get good reception, because I thought people would agree that poking and ooc is pretty lame, but to my great surprise, it’s a standard. I wasn’t looking for some grand argument, was just hoping I could get some real fights with a thief. W/e I’ve some to terms with it, and am trying the pvp arena. Had a fight with a thief today that was quite fun, no ooc’ing. Was pretty much 50/50 in terms of score.

Depths.4051:

… im saying a small “arena” this implies that you have a nice bit of space, not enough to ooc, but a nice amount which you can’t run out of. …

If they run away and go out-of-combat and heal up, so do you.

frans.8092:

Depths.4051:

… im saying a small “arena” this implies that you have a nice bit of space, not enough to ooc, but a nice amount which you can’t run out of. …

If they run away and go out-of-combat and heal up, so do you.

Love how people complain about how thieves can stealth and get OOC when you have people making comments like “I can get back stabbed down to 25% hp pretty much instantly by a thief….. I heal up pretty fast” which basically means they can accomplish the same thing as thieves(essentially restarting the fight) but dont even need to flee to do so.

As i said thieve’s need buffs. Give thieves better heals and i bet we wont go running off with your tail between our legs.

MyCondolences.8172:

frans.8092:

Depths.4051:

… im saying a small “arena” this implies that you have a nice bit of space, not enough to ooc, but a nice amount which you can’t run out of. …

If they run away and go out-of-combat and heal up, so do you.

Love how people complain about how thieves can stealth and get OOC when you have people making comments like “I can get back stabbed down to 25% hp pretty much instantly by a thief….. I heal up pretty fast” which basically means they can accomplish the same thing as thieves(essentially restarting the fight) but dont even need to flee to do so.

As i said thieve’s need buffs. Give thieves better heals and i bet we wont go running off with your tail between our legs.

Frans……. I’m not even gonna bother dude lol

Condolences, that “heal up pretty fast” requires 3 skills because I’m using blast finishers, and the fact my heals are effect is because i have an hp pool of 16k flat. my heals would be much less effective if I was using just the healing turret itself for 5k, I get an extra 4-5k from the 3 blast finishers, my blast finishers have to not be on cd though otherwise I could get something like 5k +1.3k from 1 blast finisher. If you srsly screw up, you can get only 2.5k if you blast the turret before it uses healing field xD. If I was using my elixir heal thats just like 5.5k for 25s cd. Not that nice… also those blast finishers are good for other things, so unfortunately I can’t always save them just for heals. Like Id probably need to reflect that pistol bullet barrage, so its not always possible to do the blast finishers.
If you did get more buffed, I don’t think it’d stop thieves from running when a battle was turning for the worse.

Thief is good in PvP. Both SPvP and WvWvW. There are multiplie builds that are good. Try one of them.

MOOOODS, their fighting again and ruining my christmas!!!! DX

Depths.4051:

Condolences, that “heal up pretty fast” requires 3 skills because I’m using blast finishers, and the fact my heals are effect is because i have an hp pool of 16k flat. my heals would be much less effective if I was using just the healing turret itself for 5k, I get an extra 4-5k from the 3 blast finishers, my blast finishers have to not be on cd though otherwise I could get something like 5k +1.3k from 1 blast finisher. If you srsly screw up, you can get only 2.5k if you blast the turret before it uses healing field xD. If I was using my elixir heal thats just like 5.5k for 25s cd. Not that nice… also those blast finishers are good for other things, so unfortunately I can’t always save them just for heals. Like Id probably need to reflect that pistol bullet barrage, so its not always possible to do the blast finishers.
If you did get more buffed, I don’t think it’d stop thieves from running when a battle was turning for the worse.

Wait wait wait wait wait!!!!! Engi is complaining about thiefs.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/What-class-gives-you-most-trouble/

edit: Also
“also those blast finishers are good for other things” I know its coming, but they havent nerfed the stunbreak on shadowstep yet.

Depths.4051:

frans.8092:

Depths.4051:

I’m not even gonna bother dude lol

That’s your problem, right there, you ain’t gonna bother. You’d play a lot better if you bothered more and didn’t expect your wins to be handed to you on platter, silver preferably. dude.

why you attacking me when you have no kittening clue who I am or how I play… stop trolling bro. I said I wouldn’t bother cause your comment wasn’t even really worth responding to.

I don’t care who you are or what you think you are entitled to. You post your arguments, but when you get counter arguments you just go “I can’t be bothered with you”. Do you believe you are entitled to get respect? No, you get what you give, if you are disrespectful to me, I will treat you likewise.

Depths.4051:

frans.8092:

Depths.4051:

frans.8092:

Depths.4051:

I’m not even gonna bother dude lol

That’s your problem, right there, you ain’t gonna bother. You’d play a lot better if you bothered more and didn’t expect your wins to be handed to you on platter, silver preferably. dude.

why you attacking me when you have no kittening clue who I am or how I play… stop trolling bro. I said I wouldn’t bother cause your comment wasn’t even really worth responding to.

I don’t care who you are or what you think you are entitled to. You post your arguments, but when you get counter arguments you just go “I can’t be bothered with you”. Do you believe you are entitled to get respect? No, you get what you give, if you are disrespectful to me, I will treat you likewise.

What you stated was totally off the point completely, so far off that it was obvious you had no idea what the issue was. I ignored your comment, because you either didn’t read, or you’re just trolling. I didn’t insinuate anything about you, like you tried to do.

Boy, you were, and are lacking in manners. You started on about “not bothering” and have been throwing “trolling” at me in every post since. That’s hardly insinuating, it’s straight forward insulting.

Would you like me to analyze what your comment was? “That there should be no problem because when a thief disengages combat, because you also heal….”

Thank you for rephrasing, I said when the theif goes out-of-combat, so do you, and when his ooc hp-regeneration kicks in, so does yours.

well woopdy kittening do, I could be near full health and he could be at 20% and that’d be swell having my 2k hp, and him coming back a minute later to burst again.

Oh gosh, that is so unfair and that makes you sad?

It’s a game mechanic that works the same for everyone. Sometimes you get the benefit, sometimes someone else.

frans.8092:

Depths.4051:

frans.8092:

Depths.4051:

frans.8092:

Depths.4051:

I’m not even gonna bother dude lol

That’s your problem, right there, you ain’t gonna bother. You’d play a lot better if you bothered more and didn’t expect your wins to be handed to you on platter, silver preferably. dude.

why you attacking me when you have no kittening clue who I am or how I play… stop trolling bro. I said I wouldn’t bother cause your comment wasn’t even really worth responding to.

I don’t care who you are or what you think you are entitled to. You post your arguments, but when you get counter arguments you just go “I can’t be bothered with you”. Do you believe you are entitled to get respect? No, you get what you give, if you are disrespectful to me, I will treat you likewise.

What you stated was totally off the point completely, so far off that it was obvious you had no idea what the issue was. I ignored your comment, because you either didn’t read, or you’re just trolling. I didn’t insinuate anything about you, like you tried to do.

Boy, you were, and are lacking in manners. You started on about “not bothering” and have been throwing “trolling” at me in every post since. That’s hardly insinuating, it’s straight forward insulting.

Would you like me to analyze what your comment was? “That there should be no problem because when a thief disengages combat, because you also heal….”

Thank you for rephrasing, I said when the theif goes out-of-combat, so do you, and when his ooc hp-regeneration kicks in, so does yours.

well woopdy kittening do, I could be near full health and he could be at 20% and that’d be swell having my 2k hp, and him coming back a minute later to burst again.

Oh gosh, that is so unfair and that makes you sad?

It’s a game mechanic that works the same for everyone. Sometimes you get the benefit, sometimes someone else.

I said you were trolling because you threw the first stone for no real reason, you were the first to insinuate anything.
Thank you for rephrasing.
it’s a game mechanic that is exclusively abused by thieves, gl making ooc so easy with any other class aside from warrior. Merely frustrating, and I’m giving less and less of a kitten as I find it’s a mechanic thieves rely on and it’s not going anywhere anytime soon sadly.

Aaroneous.6190:

Going to be pretty short on this, as I’m trying to my hardest not to let my anger govern this post. However anger is what finally pushed me to make my first post about a real issue.

I don’t play spvp, so I don’t know if this is an issue there, but in WvW perma-stealth thieves are pretty much beyond ridiculous and into the absurdity level. Two of my friends have quit playing this game entirely because of thieves, mesmers.. thieves, mesmers… repeat. I told them that mesmers are simply a learning situation, but thieves? No buddy. Who ever designed thieves were just one of those spoiled kids that would cry if they didn’t get whatever they want. so enough with the ramble, I said i’d be short.

Thieves IMO are completely busted in WvW because of how intangible they are to catch. But guess what? it’s not because of their stealth. let them be invisible all day, I don’t care.

Shadow step is the problem. Cut the range of that move in half. I have faced off against actual speed hackers before, and let me tell you, I always have to pay real close attention to whether it’s a real speed hacker or a shadows stepping thief.
I’d like to see what you guys think though. Surely I don’t know everything.

http://hugelolcdn.com/comments/1106337.gif

Depths.4051:

I said you were trolling because you threw the first stone for no real reason, you were the first to insinuate anything.

I didn’t throw the first stone here, that was you.

it’s a game mechanic that is exclusively abused by thieves, gl making ooc so easy with any other class aside from warrior.

It’s not abuse, the abilty to withdraw from a fight is part of ANet’s archetype for the thief, read the book. It’s also why they have low base health, very few weaponsets and virtually no access to protective boons. While it may be annoying, it’s a design choice.

frans.8092:

Depths.4051:

I’m not even gonna bother dude lol

That’s your problem, right there, you ain’t gonna bother. You’d play a lot better if you bothered more and didn’t expect your wins to be handed to you on platter, silver preferably. dude.

The first stone bro…
and yes, we know it’s a mechanic used because thieves are lacking, doesn’t man they should be able to completely reset combat whenever they want. Which is pretty much how it is atm, a good thief doesn’t die, true story.

Depths.4051:

Frans……. I’m not even gonna bother dude lol

There’s the first stone.
Dude.

and yes, we know it’s a mechanic used because thieves are lacking,

Change it and you have to change everything (including their original ideas about it). And for something of little consequence, because PvP is about it’s objectives and not PKing.

frans.8092:

Depths.4051:

Frans……. I’m not even gonna bother dude lol

There’s the first stone.

It really wasn’t a worthy comment… you know what… Idc… Im out.

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/20/20cc879ecdd518696710e5f6e556cb64b099678631a01a2d65734770976db48f.jpg

Depths.4051:

…blahs…

I said you were trolling because you threw the first stone for no real reason, you were the first to insinuate anything.
Thank you for rephrasing.
it’s a game mechanic that is exclusively abused by thieves, gl making ooc so easy with any other class aside from warrior. Merely frustrating, and I’m giving less and less of a kitten as I find it’s a mechanic thieves rely on and it’s not going anywhere anytime soon sadly.

Your slight failure in logic there actually illustrates quite nicely how the whole thing works. Thieves can OOC from anyone because they are the most mobile class. Warriors can OOC from anyone but thieves because they are the 2nd most mobile class… Eles can OOC from guardians because they are more mobile… Anyone can OOC from a PU mesmer because.. omg so slow :P If your built for perma swiftness then you can OOC from most people, asides from those select classes/builds that have many mobility skills.

ATM your complaining about thieves. Once that has been nerfed… will you go on the Warrior forums to complain about their mobility and ability to OOC? When does it end? When everyone has the same amount of mobility as PU mesmers? x3

btw… thieves do not ‘rely’ on their class mechanics to get away in the same way engineers do not ‘rely’ on their kits to have the ability to control an entire area. It is like saying ‘omg eles gain so much might with the sigil of battle! they can switch attunments much faster than any other class can switch weapons! totally unfair!’ These are class mechanics that are meant to be used, if using them a lot gives you a better result, then you should use them a lot x.x

The suggestion of ‘arenas’ being created when someone smacks someone else is… horrible… i can just imagine the day that gets put into the game. commander- everyone get to the keep! we need help defending it! no one comes because… everyone is stuck in imaginary boxes… 1v1ing…

First off thief by design (dev statements confirm this) is supposed to be the class with the most mobility. In terms or axis movement yes we are however in a straight line we aren’t even close.

Warrior GS/X cant generally get ooc as long as Bull charge is on the bar or they have a sword equipped.

Ranger Sw + X or GS can do it too as long as they have lightning reflexes but in many cases the sword or the GS alone is enough

Ele X/D can do it as long as they have lightning flash but if the drop FGS not a class in the game can catch them if they have a lead.

Mesmer PU + smart play. Relies on stealth but all of it is independent and the boons are just great for running (1 in 3 chance of getting aegis with 4 seconds of stealth).

Engineer bomb kit, rocket boots, and pure avoidance. Won’t always get you OOC but if you have already your as good as gone if you know what you are doing.

Guardian. If you run meditations with Ji and SW/X + GS then you can get out of combat quickly in some situations. Simply put ports are faster than movement skills and sword has great one same as JI. The thing is you have to have a target. A smart guard targets something he cant hit and wont put him in combat. Being in range doesn’t matter the port will go through anyway.

Necromancer really can not do it. The class was designed solely around attrition. I do not think this is fair but truth is no other class has the raged soft CC that necro has.

Strictly speaking if you build a roaming build you’ll drop aggro pretty easy on any class if you know what you are doing. Many people do not get that for thief the options are limited.

I remember once I saw a zerg of 20 people coming my way on Warrior I quite literally hit block and ran off once it was over. I literally went right through them. That was 5 months ago before the class was even buffed. I used to roam Sw + GS people would say that a bad build it doesn’t duel well but if you build a roaming build that is what you will do with it. My guard in WvW is meditations I rarely get caught. My mesmer PU power same. Ranger (when I had one deleted now) was Sw + SB with a wolf for fear. The simple truth is if you build a roaming build you will drop combat on the fly. Only one class cant do this and that is necro.

The other day I toe to toed a warrior using GS. I got him to 15% life and he ran off with Rush + Savage leap got out of combat healed up and returned. No need to run to the forums I used to troll thieves that way.

Roamers are going to roam get over it or build to catch.