Guild Wars 2

I am currently in the midst of leveling my second Thief to 80. I made this new Thief with the explicit purpose of being P/X in spvp, and frankly it is a lot of fun.
I was running a 0/10/30/0/30 build before the patch, but I have not gone in and modified it due to the increased damage being thrown around. (I am thinking I may have to go 15 into Acrobatics, I don’t know.)

I hear people mention that P/P is not that great as a main weapon set, and I agree. There is no way to get into stealth, other than utilities, the 2(3) seconds of stealth on Steal, and Instinctual Response(which is not an SPvp trait, imo.)
P/D on the other hand is a really nice weapon set. Well, as long as you are not going for burst, which I hardly ever do. Matched with D/D, it can stack plenty of bleeds, and offers you the ability to melee if your opponent throws up a projectile reflect.

Frankly, other than wanting a faster Vital Shot, I am having a little difficulty thinking of ways to improve the pistol. But, even a faster Vital Shot may make a condition built Thief, like myself, a little overpowered.

Anyway…
If you were to improve P/P or P/D, how would you go about it?

That would be hard. The entire design is flawed. It has this horrid condition/direct damage split without actually adding utility or support and the damage is far from impressive.

P/P is only used with direct damage. It’s useless compared to P/D when it comes to condition damage due to the lack of stealth, vital shot only keeps up 4-5 stacks and won’t kill anything. The only source of direct damage the set has is Unload, which has a huge initiative cost and does pathetic damage. #1 does pathetic damage. #2 is worthless as vulnerability stacks don’t last long enough to stack a decent amount. #4 is alright. #5 is terrible as it allows you to live but destroys any chance of you doing damage.

P/D is alright with the 3s revealed “buff” (lol). You still have to spec into condition duration to be able to stack even a decent amount of bleeds, however. This spec forces you to go at least 20 into DA, 30 into SA. It will never kill anything fast and is hard-countered by a lot of specs.

Only way I can think of is moving #4 to #2 and designing a new #4 for utility or damage.

Humorless.1573:

That would be hard. The entire design is flawed. It has this horrid condition/direct damage split without actually adding utility or support and the damage is far from impressive.

P/P is only used with direct damage. It’s useless compared to P/D when it comes to condition damage due to the lack of stealth, vital shot only keeps up 4-5 stacks and won’t kill anything. The only source of direct damage the set has is Unload, which has a huge initiative cost and does pathetic damage. #1 does pathetic damage. #2 is worthless as vulnerability stacks don’t last long enough to stack a decent amount. #4 is alright. #5 is terrible as it allows you to live but destroys any chance of you doing damage.

P/D is alright with the 3s revealed “buff” (lol). You still have to spec into condition duration to be able to stack even a decent amount of bleeds, however. This spec forces you to go at least 20 into DA, 30 into SA. It will never kill anything fast and is hard-countered by a lot of specs.

Only way I can think of is moving #4 to #2 and designing a new #4 for utility or damage.

I agree that Headshot should be a staple no matter what off-hand someone chooses. Moving it to slot #2 would be a welcomed change. Maybe not for D/P or S/P (LOL PISTOL WHIP)Thieves, but it would make P/D a lot more viable. I almost never use Body Shot, it’s close to useless. The only time I do use it is when there is burst coming in from other player.

I do believe that the Revealed nerf did hinder the P/D spec a great deal. I used to run into P/D thieves all the time, now it is hardly ever. It may be a lot better in WvW where you can actually have the chance to 1v1 for a decent amount of time. It’s just not that feasible for roamers in Spvp. It takes way too long to take someone down alone.

I guess we will all have to wait to see where Anet takes the Pistol. If they decide to make it a DD weapon with a little bit of condition damage on top, or a Condition damage weapon, with a little DD. Right now it’s right in the middle. Not great for one or the other.
I hope it’s turned into the condition weapon of choice for the Thief. If I want to do DD I can go with the dagger or sword. And Body Shot should be removed or changed. Maybe make it into a weakness debuff with the same duration. It would make more sense in regards to a condition weapon, imo.

Took the time to put my thoughts in the suggestion forum. Unfortunately this forum is spammed with pages of random junk posted daily, so anything not hot enough to keep it first page will be likely not be seen – so maybe we can keep it going?:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Thief-Pistols/first#post1933734

Would also love to hear thoughts.

Personally I’d like a stealth option with dual pistols. Remove body shot and add in a reverse heartseeker style jump attack that moves away instead of towards the target. In a perfect world Unload would stack bleeding.

Miserymachine.7512:

Personally I’d like a stealth option with dual pistols. Remove body shot and add in a reverse heartseeker style jump attack that moves away instead of towards the target. In a perfect world Unload would stack bleeding.

I think if Unload was to stack bleeding, it may have to be toned down in damage. Which I do not think anyone would want.

As far as Body Shot becoming a reverse Heartseeker, I am not sure about that. P/D already has a move like that, and it barely gets used at it is. Considering C&D is a much smarter ability to use. Tho… if it was a leap ability, with Black Powder it would allow stealth. Like Heartseeker + Black Powder.

replicacloned.2809:

Tho… if it was a leap ability, with Black Powder it would allow stealth. Like Heartseeker + Black Powder.

Exactly…

Replace Body Shot -> Flanking Shot

Dodgeroll/leap into the direction you’re facing & fire a shot that puts 5 stacks of vulnerability on the target for 5-10s. (4 initiative, about the distance of SB #3 or nontarget S/D #3, 3/4th of a dodgeroll)

Then replace unload with a Sneak attack-like skill that costs 4-5 initiative and stacks 3-4 stacks of bleed.

Make the #2 a leap finisher and increase the firerate of Vital Shot = condi dmg gunslinger.

Too bad it’ll never happen.

Humorless.1573:

Replace Body Shot -> Flanking Shot

Dodgeroll/leap into the direction you’re facing & fire a shot that puts 5 stacks of vulnerability on the target for 5-10s. (4 initiative, about the distance of SB #3 or nontarget S/D #3, 3/4th of a dodgeroll)

If we are going to add a new ability like that, a short duration vulnerability stack seems like such a waste. If it was 10 seconds, sure. But, Body Shot now is 6 seconds, and it’s a waste of initiative. The evade would be nice, but I’d rather have a short duration of weakness that makes being in melee range with pistols a little safer. Not too long, but something to enable the Thief to get some range without worrying about getting their teeth knocked in. And obviously not long enough of a duration to encourage bad habits.

Or possibly immobilize.

1,200 Range.
Piercing.
Does Damage.
More Mobility.
Less Initiative.

Make Unload some kind of dual skill like flanking strike that has a second attack that does 5% more damage per boon the target has.

My thoughts would be to make the attacks strike at the speed the Tooltip says, give back about 15% of pistol’s downtweaked damage. Make headshot do about 900 base damage with additinal bleeding damage. Change vital shot to a skill that can apply burning, vulnerability, and weakness while doing moderate damage. Make unload scale better with power and make unload a 4 initiative cost. Blinding powder can stay as is.

I’m trying a new build focusing on evasion for survivability as opposed to stealth( in the case of 1v1s and zergy fights mostly) Currently I’m using P/P for the DPS/Pressure and I’m using D/D for the OH set(even though I hate Backstab thieves with a passion) All I have to do is use unload and my evades until I’m feeling too much pressure then pop black powder and switch to D/D for HS into stealth and chain CnD to reset or go in for the kill if I can get it. I’m havin fun with it so far mostly switching to PVT gear for now just to get used to it and then probably mix in some zerker gear for more finishing ability.

Build is 0/30/0/20/20
CS Traits- 1, 5, 11
Acro Traits- 3, 8
Trick- 5, 7

Basically just building up as much vigor as I can for the extra dodges and using CS for the extra pistol damage and the Killing power once they hit 50%. Once I switch in some zerkers it will be a little more effective but right now I’m tryin to get used to fighting without the stealth even though I still have CnD through D/D and the BP+HS combo. I usually run a P/D glass condi build, and it works against pretty much anyone who isn’t a super tanky guardian or ele with max condi-removal Pistols are good for thieves imo, very good.

Add an evade to this set.

Like:
#3: Gunslinger
Evade in whatever direction you are going and then unload onto the opponent with both pistols for good damage.

Character-wise it makes sense to add an evade to dual pistols somewhere, rather than a stealth imo, it just feels like a guy with two pistols would be rolling around and then shooting

In the off hand it needs to allow for as much stealth as any other weapon set.

They could change P/P #3 skill by adding that little fact :
- Dodging doesn’t stop the channeling of this skill.

Cempa.5619:

In the off hand it needs to allow for as much stealth as any other weapon set.

P/P allows as much stealth than S/P already.

avilo.1942:

Add an evade to this set.

Like:
#3: Gunslinger
Evade in whatever direction you are going and then unload onto the opponent with both pistols for good damage.

Character-wise it makes sense to add an evade to dual pistols somewhere, rather than a stealth imo, it just feels like a guy with two pistols would be rolling around and then shooting

Or just give unload a diving, action movie animation.

See this is what I’d think of if I redid pistol for thief, bearing in mind this is basically just focusing on MH pistol which is the weaker aspect of the pistol, the off hand is generally fine. Of course would probably need a lot more tweaking.

The overall idea is to both increase the base damage slightly across the set, put more use into the set and bring its style inline with other thief sets, yes it would be the first ranged attack to have an actual auto chain but when it comes to thief gunners you’d really expect fluid movement across different types of fast shot. I also wanted to up the overall effectiveness of all the skills across the set to make it viable for differing builds the same way daggers are. (daggers good direct damage with a solid condition choice, pistols good condition damage with a solid direct damage choice)

Auto-Attack chain:

Arm Shot: 0.3SkCo | Weakness 1s | Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile (20%) | Range: 900 | Activation time: 1/4
Fire a quick shot into your targets arm weakening them.
-> Body Shot: 0.3SkCo | (2)Vulnerability 4s | Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile (20%) | Range: 900 | Activation time: 1/4
Fire a quick shot into your targets torso making them vulnerable
-> Vital Shot: 0.4SkCo | (3)Bleeding 4s | Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile (20%) | Range: 900 | Activation time: 1/2
Fire a quick shot into your targets vital spots bleeding them

Total effect of constant attack chain: 1.0SkCo/s | 100% weakness up | 6 stacks of Vulnerability | 9 stacks of Bleed
Current total for constant attack chain (if they fixed activation times): 0.8SkCo/s | 7 stacks of Bleed
Current actual total for constant attack chain: 0.46 SkCo/s | 5 stacks of bleed

Stealth Attack:

Dirty Shots: 0.3SkCo | Bleeding 6s | Poison 1s | Random additional Condition 1s | Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile | Range: 900 | Activation time: 1s | Shots: 5
Fire a quick barrage of tainted bullets at your enemies vital spots

Total: 1.5SkCo | 5 stacks of bleed for 6s | Poison for 5s | 5 random conditions lasting a second
Current Sneak attack: 1.25SkCo | 5 stacks of bleed for 4s

3 initiative cost skill:

Leg Shot: 0.75 SkCO | Immobilize 0.5s | Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile | Range: 900 | Activation time: 1/2
Blast your enemies legs momentarily stoping them in their tracks

Effect per second (until inititiative out): 1.5SkCo/s | 1s Immobilize
Current skill effect per second (without activation time issues): 1SkCo/s | 10 stacks of vulnerability
Current Skill effect per second (with activation time issues): 0.57SkCo/s | 5 stacks of vulnerability

Dual Skill With Pistol:

Unload: 4 Initiative | 0.3SkCo | Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile (20%) | Range: 900 | Activation time: 1.5s | Shots: 10
Blast your foe repeatedly with both pistols

Total effect: 2.0SkCo/s
Current Effect: 1.06SkCo/s
Current Effect without activation time issues: 1.37SkCo/s

Pistol Traits:

Shrapnel Richochet: Pistol shots have a 20% chance to bounce to an additional target and a 40% chance to apply bleed(2s) to foes in a 120 radius of target (including the target)

Pistol Mastery: +10% damage with pistols, Pistol Critical hits have a 66% chance to apply vulnerability for 10s (1s ICD)

Quick Draw(replacing ankleshots in critical strikes): On weapon swap to pistol you gain quickness and 10% critical damage for 2 seconds (20s cooldown)

1. Bodyshot now knocks back the target (without actually stunning), in addition to its current effects. Duration on vulnerability increased to 11 sec.

2. Fix the kitten bug making vital shot cast slower than it’s supposed to. Come on, Arenanet, we’ve known about this practically since launch.

3. Black powder is now ground-targetable, and has a range of 900.

MasterGeese.4756:

2. Fix the kitten bug making vital shot cast slower than it’s supposed to. Come on, Arenanet, we’ve known about this practically since launch.

There is no such bug or if there is one, we do not have the info to say so. As far as we are concerned, Vital Shot attacks as fast as ANet wanted it to.

1. Give it mobility on 2.
2. Rework sneak attack
3. Buff shadow strike and dancing daggers.
4. Higher damage on headshot.
5. 5stacks of vuln on CND.
6. Delete ricochet replace with a condition applying trait.
7. Increase DMG 5%
8. Nerf pistol mastery 5%. Pistols pierce.

Broaden past 5-1 and 3-1 play.

Give us a trait that make pistol shots pierce targets. Make skill #2 a leap finisher and some sort of evasive attack (dodge roll as you shoot your enemy and make them vulnerable). Those changes would make me choose p/p as one of my weapon sets.

Buff Vital Shot, it should do about 20-30% more DPS than it does
Buff Body Shot to be on par with Brutal Shot.
Buff Ricochet to at least a 40% proc chance.

That’s really all it needs.

- Actually Vital Shot should do 100% more DPS than it does. It’s currently half damage and 2/3rds bleed damage compared to bleeding shot. But I want it’s attack rate to be doubled (so it actually is .5s or less per attack) rather than its damage brought up.

- Body Shot does need to be buffed or made cheaper (another debuff like weakness, duration brought to 8 or 10s, cost 2 instead of 3, something like that)… though brought to the level of Brutal Shot would be a bit too strong as it is indeed faster and has no CD. Though Brutal Shot is now at a level I find it more worth it.
- I’m not even sure I’d take it at 40%. Pistol traits really need to be brought together and new weapon added and others buffed. A MASTER 5% dagger trait, a MASTER 5% SB/Harpoon trait, NO traits for sword or spear, and three little traits for pistols scattered in trees. The 10% on Pistols as an Adept trait wouldn’t be bad if not for the Pistols already sucking. A 60% chance to cripple for 3s on a crit on a 10s cooldown is weak. A 20% chance to ricochet is also pretty bad, especially as a master trait. Personally the Ricochet merged with the Pistol Mastery and the cooldown on Ankle Shots lowered to 5 or 6s. As that would make Pistol Mastery stronger while still finding Ankle Shots not that powerful, they should be changed on ranking to (Ankle Shots > Adept. Pistol Mastery > Master). That would free a trait to give to other weapons. I’d go onto those, but that’s not the subject of this… but part of the reason that 25/30/x/x/x equates to the highest DPS option for any weaponset is because those trait options suck so utterly.

stof.9341:

MasterGeese.4756:

2. Fix the kitten bug making vital shot cast slower than it’s supposed to. Come on, Arenanet, we’ve known about this practically since launch.

There is no such bug or if there is one, we do not have the info to say so. As far as we are concerned, Vital Shot attacks as fast as ANet wanted it to.

It’s a problem regardless if it’s a bug or not. At best, the aftercast is just not tuned correctly and so it fires too slowly for its damage specs. It is altogether weaker than Bleeding Shot when it should be stronger given the shorter range and defensive weakness of thieves.

On top of that, to make P/P work at all you have to have a berserker build which Means Vital Shot is simply terrible. This in turn means that you get crap DPS from your only free attack and are forced to constantly supplement it with Unload Initiative dumps, leaving with you zero utility.

In other words, P/P is horrible, and Vital Shot is the main reason why.

Einlanzer.1627:

Buff Vital Shot, it should do about 20-30% more DPS than it does
Buff Body Shot to be on par with Brutal Shot.
Buff Ricochet to at least a 40% proc chance.

That’s really all it needs.

I think you mean “remove ricochet”.

The trait would be worthless even with 100% chance to work. It’s still pathetic single target and aoe damage.

Humorless.1573:

Einlanzer.1627:

Buff Vital Shot, it should do about 20-30% more DPS than it does
Buff Body Shot to be on par with Brutal Shot.
Buff Ricochet to at least a 40% proc chance.

That’s really all it needs.

I think you mean “remove ricochet”.

The trait would be worthless even with 100% chance to work. It’s still pathetic single target and aoe damage.

I don’t think it’d be worthless at all with 100%.

I don’t think a trait that doubles DPS in AoE situations is balanced either.

Leap or blast finisher on 2#.

stof.9341:

I don’t think a trait that doubles DPS in AoE situations is balanced either.

Consider that sword/shortbow attacks are more powerful, and triple DPS in AE situations without any traits at all.

Einlanzer.1627:

Humorless.1573:

Einlanzer.1627:

Buff Vital Shot, it should do about 20-30% more DPS than it does
Buff Body Shot to be on par with Brutal Shot.
Buff Ricochet to at least a 40% proc chance.

That’s really all it needs.

I think you mean “remove ricochet”.

The trait would be worthless even with 100% chance to work. It’s still pathetic single target and aoe damage.

I don’t think it’d be worthless at all with 100%.

With the current vital shot firerate it’d do less than trick shot.

Ricochet is kittening garbage. The developer that decided to put that in ran out of ideas or is an idiot.

Tulisin.6945:

stof.9341:

I don’t think a trait that doubles DPS in AoE situations is balanced either.

Consider that sword/shortbow attacks are more powerful, and triple DPS in AE situations without any traits at all.

Maybe we should add a trait that triples the damage Daggers do them. Since obviously the dagger that cannot cleave for around the same autoattack DPS than sword is inferior.

The pistol main autoattack might be very weak indeed. It’s still not a reason to add a trait that basically doubles the damage they do. ANet already got enough problems with the Engineer grenade trait that adds 50% more damage but at least it’s a grandmaster rank trait. What they need is to boost the base damage and keep ricochet at 20%

stof.9341:

Tulisin.6945:

stof.9341:

I don’t think a trait that doubles DPS in AoE situations is balanced either.

Consider that sword/shortbow attacks are more powerful, and triple DPS in AE situations without any traits at all.

Maybe we should add a trait that triples the damage Daggers do them. Since obviously the dagger that cannot cleave for around the same autoattack DPS than sword is inferior.

The pistol main autoattack might be very weak indeed. It’s still not a reason to add a trait that basically doubles the damage they do. ANet already got enough problems with the Engineer grenade trait that adds 50% more damage but at least it’s a grandmaster rank trait. What they need is to boost the base damage and keep ricochet at 20%

And it’ll still be completely worthless and not used. Why would you ever want a 20% chance to do damage to a secondary target? If there’s more than one target you switch to shortbow or sword and you’ll do more damage than pistol ever will. On single targets the trait is 100% useless. And 20% chance is just pathetically unreliable. Potential DPS is meaningless. Adding another RNG factor besides crit is just dumb.

Ricochet needs to be removed and replaced with something useful.

The major reason I don’t consider ricochet in my builds is because I’m nervous about stray shots hitting and pulling attention from mobs that I don’t really want looking at me. It’s the sort of thing I’d like to turn on or off, or have on all the time and just be able to change my playstyle a little and trust it.

They could try making ricochet 100% and lowering the damage of the second shot, but they’d also have to make sure that the secondary effect from any of the possible shots were weaker too. Body shot would stack less vulnerability, head shot would only blind on the second target, not daze, vital shot’s second hit would have a shorter bleed, etc.

It wouldn’t make pistol a great multi-target tool (that would still be the shortbow, and I don’t see a good reason to try and change that, really) but it would give it free damage whenever there was more than one thing attacking you, which is one of the biggest weaknesses of pistol sets.

At any rate, the fix for P/P is both simple and obvious.

The problem lies in the inequality between Vital Shot and Unload. Because Unload is so much more DPS than Vital Shot, you are forced to dump all your resources into Unload to avoid cratering your DPS. Apart from being burst-oriented and not sustainable over long periods, this also has the effect of negating any potential utility the set offers.

Vital Shot needs a significant buff so that’s it’s only very slightly weaker than Unload. This changes Unload from being a spam-necessity to a tactical option on an equal level with the set’s other skills.

Ricochet needs reworked also, and Body Shot probably does too, but Vital Shot is a hugely disproportionate part of why P/P is broken.

Fix to Pistols – higher rate of fire and lesser initiative cost the lesser Thief hit points are, so trying to “out dps” a thief would be a bad idea, instead valid tactic against P/P being control or attempting to kill in quick combo.

Range = 1000-1200 and evade or stealth would be a start.

skill #2 body shot – add a secondary effect of knockback
to enemies, adjust initiative cost.

skill #3 unload – i like the way it is movement wise – you’re in control.

personally do not like the idea of getting an auto evade
on this. as this is the offensive option in the double pistol
set, it would be detrimental to use on tight quarters and
narrow ledges. the shortbow evade is fine since it is a
defensive skill, while it has other skills for offense. mixing
both would be unwise.

disagree about it having knockback too, as that would just
push your target out of range with your main offense
… and might give anet the idea of nerfing the
double pistol set

skill #4 daze – hmmm, showing the difference of interrupt mechanics in gw1
and gw2. in gw1, interrupting was crucial and practical for a team
member. especially since a targeted enemy had a progressing bar
that would show the move you can interrupt before it fills up.
in gw2, while its true that enemies have some animation cues
to tell you when to interrupt, it sometimes not possible
to see when enemies are bunched up together with sparkly
effects flying all over the screen.

either take some cues from gw1 interrupt mechanics, or
change headshot daze to half a second from a quarter of a second.
(would just like to verify that its not a condition, right? so it
can’t be abused with condition boosters?) or……

skill #4 and #5 – change headshot completely to be a specific combo for
blackpowder. much like a d/p heartseeker can be comboe’d
with blackpowder for stealth. it doesn’t necessarily have to
be stealth, it can be anything useful to give double pistols
more utility in group situations.

.

Were it up to me, I would make unload a blast finisher instead of projectile. That would give easier access to stealth for p/p and more utility, plus raise the value of all the other projectile finishers the set has.
An extra second or stack with slightly shorter duration of bleed on vital shot would be nice, but I don’t really think it’s the root of the undesirability of the set.
Ricochet is just kitteny, though. Too low of a chance to proc to build around (even on a high risk/reward class like a thief) and as likely to be a liability as useful when it does. Maybe make it inflict a condition on all pistol attacks, but not a chance on a long CD like the crippling one, but something to bring pistol utility or damage up as a whole. I would like vulnerability there (1 stack for 3 sec ideally) but we have that other ugly vulnerability trait which would be overshadowed.
Ultimately I would scrap Ricochet for an extra bleeding trait on all pistol shots in its place if vital shot were to see no change.
Edit: trying this new paragraph thing.

ArtC.1827:

An extra second or stack with slightly shorter duration of bleed on vital shot would be nice, but I don’t really think it’s the root of the undesirability of the set.

It is the root, for the simple reason that a weak autoattack combined with a shared resource for your utility and DPS skills creates a huge gameplay problem. Thieves in particular need for their autoattack to be strong so that you aren’t so reliant on the other DPS skill(s) on your bar that you can’t use the utility. While that may not be all of P/P’s problem, it is a disproportionate chunk of it.

It’s never struck you that the design of P/P might be that you have to sacrifice the utility of the other skills to use a big damage skill like unload? It’s how the dagger sets work.

Maybe it just needs better bullets. Armor Piercing, Incineration and Explosive bullets.

I’d like if it shot further since Shortbow seems to outrange it cuz of projectile difference~ which has always annoyed me since beta.

Softspoken.2410:

It’s never struck you that the design of P/P might be that you have to sacrifice the utility of the other skills to use a big damage skill like unload? It’s how the dagger sets work.

Which would be fine if Unload was good enough to justify it. Unload isn’t some big short-term burst skill though, it is a mediocre and nearly sustainable damage skill. You end up giving up everything (utility, survivability, AE capability, and damage) for … the ability to attack things at a whole 900 range?

Tulisin.6945:

Softspoken.2410:

It’s never struck you that the design of P/P might be that you have to sacrifice the utility of the other skills to use a big damage skill like unload? It’s how the dagger sets work.

Which would be fine if Unload was good enough to justify it. Unload isn’t some big short-term burst skill though, it is a mediocre and nearly sustainable damage skill. You end up giving up everything (utility, survivability, AE capability, and damage) for … the ability to attack things at a whole 900 range?

Yeah but don’t worry guys, putting more damage on Vital Shot will fix that.

(I agree that Unload is not quite good enough, though honestly it feels close. I should have quoted Einlanzer’s post to make it clear I was replying to him specifically.)

Edit: I’ve been thinking about it a bit more, and I think adding an endurance regenerating mechanic to Unload, such as 2-3 seconds of vigor on finishing the channel, could be a way to give it more survivability and fit its current playstyle. I don’t want to resort to stealth since I feel like there should be a few stealth-less sets in the thief’s arsenal.

Softspoken.2410:

Edit: I’ve been thinking about it a bit more, and I think adding an endurance regenerating mechanic to Unload, such as 2-3 seconds of vigor on finishing the channel, could be a way to give it more survivability and fit its current playstyle.

That’d be a great way to create synergy between P/P and acrobatics. Sustainable in-combat access to Vigor would allow a P/P thief to actually dictate range via swiftness and caltrops on dodge.

0.5 recovery speed. (from 0.9)
Pierce
1,200 range
better traits.
better damage.

fixed.

Unload needs split skills like flanking strike did.