Guild Wars 2

BobbyT.7192:

Dasorine.1964:

BobbyT.7192:

Dps on a warrior’s axe is roughly the same on thieves daggers, if they are built similarly. They hit harder, but slow. taking 3.9s to complete a combo compared to a thieves which is about 2s. Misconception people make about it.

The comparison is that axe third chain in auto attack that takes 3.6s to go through hits harder than backstab that a thief requires 4.75s to go through at best (in reality more along the 5.75-6.75 range)

Auto attack damage only axe would still be ahead, the full chain for dagger deals a base of 7kittenage every 2 seconds, axe does a base of 1648 damage over 3.6 seconds.

So daggers auto attack is 380 dps axe is 458 dps

Funny, i’m getting ~900dps for the both, In the mist i use basic weapons, no traits, runes or sigils, and a beserker amulet on both. Stats are pretty much the same(axes slightly higher to due the damage on axes itself), and it take both 10s to down the light armor golem with just AAs. With the thief taking 6-7s to kill it with AAs + 2 C&D/BS combos . Been doing that test for the last hour and thats what i keep coming up with.
Just to note, i opened up with the BS combo, 2 auto chains and another BS. Doing it with an Auto combo first, one BS, and 2 more autos, took 8s

Well I was calculating with base stats only, throwing in C+D and BS without throwing in axe cooldowns will of course somewhat close the gap simply due to the fact that spending cooldowns should always gain more than not (be it more damage or more utility)

Dasorine.1964:

BobbyT.7192:

Dasorine.1964:

BobbyT.7192:

Dps on a warrior’s axe is roughly the same on thieves daggers, if they are built similarly. They hit harder, but slow. taking 3.9s to complete a combo compared to a thieves which is about 2s. Misconception people make about it.

The comparison is that axe third chain in auto attack that takes 3.6s to go through hits harder than backstab that a thief requires 4.75s to go through at best (in reality more along the 5.75-6.75 range)

Auto attack damage only axe would still be ahead, the full chain for dagger deals a base of 7kittenage every 2 seconds, axe does a base of 1648 damage over 3.6 seconds.

So daggers auto attack is 380 dps axe is 458 dps

Funny, i’m getting ~900dps for the both, In the mist i use basic weapons, no traits, runes or sigils, and a beserker amulet on both. Stats are pretty much the same(axes slightly higher to due the damage on axes itself), and it take both 10s to down the light armor golem with just AAs. With the thief taking 6-7s to kill it with AAs + 2 C&D/BS combos . Been doing that test for the last hour and thats what i keep coming up with.
Just to note, i opened up with the BS combo, 2 auto chains and another BS. Doing it with an Auto combo first, one BS, and 2 more autos, took 8s

Well I was calculating with base stats only, throwing in C+D and BS without throwing in axe cooldowns will of course somewhat close the gap simply due to the fact that spending cooldowns should always gain more than not (be it more damage or more utility)

Funny thing, warrior axe auto attack dps is comparable to warrior greatsword auto attack+100blades every 6,5sec and axe has basicaly zero dmg-increasing attacks (sure,vulnerabilty, fury uptime etc, true, I am talking only about pure skill damage).

I actually did some calculations in the mist (so the same stats) for 25/25/0/0/20 warrior gs with 100blades during 10 sec and 30/30/10/0/0 d/d thief with CnD and BS during 10 sec. They are basicaly equal.

Ofc, gs warrior stacks might better than thief and dps thief has 20% more dmg in second half of the fight, it is not so easy to directly compare those 2, but they are close enough for me.

Dasorine.1964:

BobbyT.7192:

Dasorine.1964:

BobbyT.7192:

Dps on a warrior’s axe is roughly the same on thieves daggers, if they are built similarly. They hit harder, but slow. taking 3.9s to complete a combo compared to a thieves which is about 2s. Misconception people make about it.

The comparison is that axe third chain in auto attack that takes 3.6s to go through hits harder than backstab that a thief requires 4.75s to go through at best (in reality more along the 5.75-6.75 range)

Auto attack damage only axe would still be ahead, the full chain for dagger deals a base of 7kittenage every 2 seconds, axe does a base of 1648 damage over 3.6 seconds.

So daggers auto attack is 380 dps axe is 458 dps

Funny, i’m getting ~900dps for the both, In the mist i use basic weapons, no traits, runes or sigils, and a beserker amulet on both. Stats are pretty much the same(axes slightly higher to due the damage on axes itself), and it take both 10s to down the light armor golem with just AAs. With the thief taking 6-7s to kill it with AAs + 2 C&D/BS combos . Been doing that test for the last hour and thats what i keep coming up with.
Just to note, i opened up with the BS combo, 2 auto chains and another BS. Doing it with an Auto combo first, one BS, and 2 more autos, took 8s

Well I was calculating with base stats only, throwing in C+D and BS without throwing in axe cooldowns will of course somewhat close the gap simply due to the fact that spending cooldowns should always gain more than not (be it more damage or more utility)

Even with base stats, i’m getting ~500dps over 10 secs with both of them with just autos.
Of course we have cooldown coming into effect, you cannot use BS without intiative or popping CDs. BS doing more damage compared to only axes auto is to be expected.

And Axe and Greatsword warrior still cleave 3 targets for the same damage as thief dagger single target …

And again the point really comes down to the fact that many people complain that backstabs damage is far too high, when there are plenty of skills that are both easier to land and more damage, the third chain in axe auto attack is a prime example, higher skill damage coefficient, no positional requirements, no cooldown requirements and yet its Backstab that is seen as the deadlier skill.

StugLyfe.2134:

All you stealth abusers brought this on yourselves. What the 1,000 topics on this problem were all just community QQ in your minds lol ….. funny stuff here today.

ANET DEVS this was a long long time coming thank you very much!

For every bad thief that leaves today 10 players will return for this patch.

What are you even talking about, how is a 3 second revealed debuff = stealth abuse.

I’m assuming you know what you’re talking about are under the impression that revealed applied from coming out of stealth VIA an attack has been increased to a 4 second duration.

In which case is redundant and just nerfs the damage of thieves.

And to come in here insinuating thieves who chain cloak and dagger to move in a mob undetected as “stealth abusers” you gotta be kitten me right?

If you die because a thief kept using CnD on you, no offense you’re a noob.
Chaining CnD to move in a mob undetected to get to your primary target is what CnD chaining is.

If you want to call that abuse, lets increase the recharge time on ALL mesmer’s clone skills.

Honestly that kitten is more annoying than stealth -.-

Dasorine.1964:

And again the point really comes down to the fact that many people complain that backstabs damage is far too high, when there are plenty of skills that are both easier to land and more damage, the third chain in axe auto attack is a prime example, higher skill damage coefficient, no positional requirements, no cooldown requirements and yet its Backstab that is seen as the deadlier skill.

What’s funny is backstab doesn’t even one shot decent players. About the only people you can kill with a steal/cnd/backstab combo are A: Upscales in WvW, B: Noobs in 100% berserker gear, C: People at < 50% health.

If you use the 100% burst build where you blow all 5 of your CD’s to add to backstab damage you can kill more people with it, but then you are about worthless for the next 45+ seconds and have now 4 sec of revealed and no way to live.

Its just all the horribad people in 100% zerker gear going omg why am I getting one shot when I have no HP and Armor

Just for the record I will be doing a comparison between warrior and thief DPS to once and for all break the debate.

(I already know who wins though teehee)

Jathra.9327:

What’s funny is backstab doesn’t even one shot decent players. About the only people you can kill with a steal/cnd/backstab combo are A: Upscales in WvW, B: Noobs in 100% berserker gear, C: People at < 50% health.

If you use the 100% burst build where you blow all 5 of your CD’s to add to backstab damage you can kill more people with it, but then you are about worthless for the next 45+ seconds and have now 4 sec of revealed and no way to live.

Its just all the horribad people in 100% zerker gear going omg why am I getting one shot when I have no HP and Armor

Sorry but NOTHING can oneshot a player with less than 50% HP remaining

Also, I’m a full zerk thief and I don’t die to backstab combos. Probably cause I stunbreak/evade before backstab lands judging from combat log :p

Straegen.2938:

It is 1… 1 freaking second on a combo that is still so ridiculously powerful no other class can match it. People here are QQing about still being really powerful.

It’s a 33% increase to the duration of revealed. Yeah its adaptable to, but say ANet had done a 33% reduction to the number of clones a mesmer could control or increased the cooldown of elemental attunements (not to mention they did so to try to change 1 build that it then had no impact on), those classes would similarly be up on arms. When you have hundreds of hours of timing and gameplay ingrained into you, what may look minor on paper is fairly significant.

S/D and P/D received a huge hit on their playstyles (that 1 second is much more than what the number alone means) as they’re much less bursty than D/D or D/P.

I’m starting to think about switching from P/D to (gasp) P/P and the boring 3333333 chaining… way to waste ectos on a Carrion set for this U.U

StugLyfe.2134:

All you stealth abusers brought this on yourselves. What the 1,000 topics on this problem were all just community QQ in your minds lol ….. funny stuff here today.

ANET DEVS this was a long long time coming thank you very much!

For every bad thief that leaves today 10 players will return for this patch.

Hahahaha. It’s ppl like you that form the cancer of gaming communities.

Basically what YOU want is to kill thieves and you can’t cuz they run?
I doubt YOU play thief. A thief has ZERO defense besides stealth and a dodge or two…thats why we RUN and HIDE and not STAY cuz we can’t FACETANK, or do illussions and BUFF ourselves with SHIELDS and CHAINDODGE and sorts. Do you know what landing an effective backstab takes? I bet you wouldn’t even land a CnD.

Play a thief and come here or GTFO.
Thief is a PLAY STYLE as a PROFESSION!

uzu.7351:

StugLyfe.2134:

All you stealth abusers brought this on yourselves. What the 1,000 topics on this problem were all just community QQ in your minds lol ….. funny stuff here today.

ANET DEVS this was a long long time coming thank you very much!

For every bad thief that leaves today 10 players will return for this patch.

Hahahaha. It’s ppl like you that form the cancer of gaming communities.

Basically what YOU want is to kill thieves and you can’t cuz they run?
I doubt YOU play thief. A thief has ZERO defense besides stealth and a dodge or two…thats why we RUN and HIDE and not STAY cuz we can’t FACETANK, or do illussions and BUFF ourselves with SHIELDS and CHAINDODGE and sorts. Do you know what landing an effective backstab takes? I bet you wouldn’t even land a CnD.

Play a thief and come here or GTFO.
Thief is a PLAY STYLE as a PROFESSION!

People like you are why serious players use the guru forums.

StugLyfe.2134:

All you stealth abusers brought this on yourselves. What the 1,000 topics on this problem were all just community QQ in your minds lol ….. funny stuff here today.

ANET DEVS this was a long long time coming thank you very much!

For every bad thief that leaves today 10 players will return for this patch.

Yeah, no. The nerf targetted everyone but the stealth abusers.

I rather have the revealed from not attacking as well, I rarely ever used CnD stealth spam anyways, I always attacked from stealth before it wore. Seriously, the original intended nerf actually made sense and I was ready to cope with it. This last minute one doesn’t make sense.