Guild Wars 2

scroll up and check it out u are obviously blind and i bet i have more time spent on thief than u salty boy. So u want thief to have just more vitality instead of SE/FG back? obviously u got no logic behind it and got no experience about thief at all.

Ok I scrolled up,and I got to admit – never seen in this forum a guy so high as you are you even check up on things you say? most ppl here saying it is welcome thing to do the other ones saying that anet wouldnt increase the hp pool yet they didnt said that they are not agree with it. And you know the other guy is full of it,when he bets on somthing he dosn’t know,and the rest of your comment is a proof of your ignorance.Never expressed an opnion about feline grace here on this topic so having more vitality is my prime concern.Should you see my other topic about suggestions on hot to balance,you will see I do have an opinion about thief traits aswell.Though extra vitality would do wonderous and thief player who says:“no need for extra vitality” either play other classes or just playing dire.You see Yishis videos and you think this is a good thief,enuff said.

Nephrite.6954:

Majority of the people I’ve met who actually played thief long enough understands this thread. I’m just baffled by the fact that you guys still don’t get the point. I never requested them to increase our health pool to the highest level like necros or warriors, never once I’ve stated that if you read the posts obove. I really don’t want to make my statements rude cause things can get real toxic if you’ve read my previous post and other people on gw2 forum. Guardians are well known for having exceptionally high sustain without much effort, they’ve got a good deal of damage output as well as proper damage mitigation. Fresh air eles getting faced rolled? You seriously don’t expect anyone to trait into full damage output and expect to live long enough right? Is your logic seriously that limited(sorry I just had to). I mean you seriously think that thieves have enough sustain in the current state and that the dev is gonna stop the endless irrationally unjustified nerfs? Giving us medium health pool will provide some breathing room as well as opening the opportunity to not die like flies, exactly like what that’s been stated above. Btw Jayden I’ve seen your post before about thieves, I don’t wish to seem personal but it seems like you seriously seem like a person who would state things with absolute prejudice. It seems as if prejudice should be your middle name.

It doesn’t matter if the HP increase would be to medium or the highest health pools. Without improved active defence, the extra padding with more vitality melts really fast.

You seriously don’t expect anyone to trait into full damage output and expect to live long enough right?

I compared equivalent stat choices for same HP pool classes, ele can die even faster than a thief if hit by the same attack. And it is due to current overbuffed dmg everyone has that the lowest HP classes can die in 1 hit. Why should a thief class be an exception and get more HP to cope with the dmg currently in the game. The solution to that is to nerf dmg output across all classes, not give 1 class more HP.

Because this thread is meant for legitimate points.

What makes a point not legitimate? The fact that someone doens’t agree with you?

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Nephrite.6954:

Majority of the people I’ve met who actually played thief long enough understands this thread. I’m just baffled by the fact that you guys still don’t get the point. I never requested them to increase our health pool to the highest level like necros or warriors, never once I’ve stated that if you read the posts obove. I really don’t want to make my statements rude cause things can get real toxic if you’ve read my previous post and other people on gw2 forum. Guardians are well known for having exceptionally high sustain without much effort, they’ve got a good deal of damage output as well as proper damage mitigation. Fresh air eles getting faced rolled? You seriously don’t expect anyone to trait into full damage output and expect to live long enough right? Is your logic seriously that limited(sorry I just had to). I mean you seriously think that thieves have enough sustain in the current state and that the dev is gonna stop the endless irrationally unjustified nerfs? Giving us medium health pool will provide some breathing room as well as opening the opportunity to not die like flies, exactly like what that’s been stated above. Btw Jayden I’ve seen your post before about thieves, I don’t wish to seem personal but it seems like you seriously seem like a person who would state things with absolute prejudice. It seems as if prejudice should be your middle name.

It doesn’t matter if the HP increase would be to medium or the highest health pools. Without improved active defence, the extra padding with more vitality melts really fast.

You seriously don’t expect anyone to trait into full damage output and expect to live long enough right?

I compared equivalent stat choices for same HP pool classes, ele can die even faster than a thief if hit by the same attack. And it is due to current overbuffed dmg everyone has that the lowest HP classes can die in 1 hit. Why should a thief class be an exception and get more HP to cope with the dmg currently in the game. The solution to that is to nerf dmg output across all classes, not give 1 class more HP.

Because this thread is meant for legitimate points.

What makes a point not legitimate? The fact that someone doens’t agree with you?

ok,give thief the ele active defense,almost perma protection,and self sustain. i will be happy to stay with this on low hp pool.

Sandrox.9524:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Nephrite.6954:

Majority of the people I’ve met who actually played thief long enough understands this thread. I’m just baffled by the fact that you guys still don’t get the point. I never requested them to increase our health pool to the highest level like necros or warriors, never once I’ve stated that if you read the posts obove. I really don’t want to make my statements rude cause things can get real toxic if you’ve read my previous post and other people on gw2 forum. Guardians are well known for having exceptionally high sustain without much effort, they’ve got a good deal of damage output as well as proper damage mitigation. Fresh air eles getting faced rolled? You seriously don’t expect anyone to trait into full damage output and expect to live long enough right? Is your logic seriously that limited(sorry I just had to). I mean you seriously think that thieves have enough sustain in the current state and that the dev is gonna stop the endless irrationally unjustified nerfs? Giving us medium health pool will provide some breathing room as well as opening the opportunity to not die like flies, exactly like what that’s been stated above. Btw Jayden I’ve seen your post before about thieves, I don’t wish to seem personal but it seems like you seriously seem like a person who would state things with absolute prejudice. It seems as if prejudice should be your middle name.

It doesn’t matter if the HP increase would be to medium or the highest health pools. Without improved active defence, the extra padding with more vitality melts really fast.

You seriously don’t expect anyone to trait into full damage output and expect to live long enough right?

I compared equivalent stat choices for same HP pool classes, ele can die even faster than a thief if hit by the same attack. And it is due to current overbuffed dmg everyone has that the lowest HP classes can die in 1 hit. Why should a thief class be an exception and get more HP to cope with the dmg currently in the game. The solution to that is to nerf dmg output across all classes, not give 1 class more HP.

Because this thread is meant for legitimate points.

What makes a point not legitimate? The fact that someone doens’t agree with you?

ok,give thief the ele active defense,almost perma protection,and self sustain. i will be happy to stay with this on low hp pool.

+1 This.

Increasing the hp would kill the class for me.

Much like Assassin in GW1, or any other MMO I play, I love playing “glass-cannon” classes that offer high risk vs high reward gameplay. I enjoy being punished for the slightest mistake.

I do agree evasion and mitigation needs an overhaul. Acrobatics is pretty rubbish as it stands but I think the core issue atm is that DPS and conditions aren’t balanced relative to certain health pools, which overall to me reeks of certain classes and skills needing a DPS nerf…not us needing a buff which would imho be counterintuitive and do more harm than good.

Increasing the base hp would just reward and encourage bad play and bad players.

Fixing evasion, mitigation and some of the one-shotting due to outrageous DPS spikes would not.

fireflyry.7023:

Increasing the hp would kill the class for me.

Much like Assassin in GW1, or any other MMO I play, I love playing “glass-cannon” classes that offer high risk vs high reward gameplay. I enjoy being punished for the slightest mistake.

I do agree evasion and mitigation needs an overhaul. Acrobatics is pretty rubbish as it stands but I think the core issue atm is that DPS and conditions aren’t balanced relative to certain health pools, which overall to me reeks of certain classes and skills needing a DPS nerf…not us needing a buff which would imho be counterintuitive and do more harm than good.

Increasing the base hp would just reward and encourage bad play and bad players.

Fixing evasion, mitigation and some of the one-shotting due to outrageous DPS spikes would not.

What you dont see is,your healh pool has been nerfed this patch.you had 15k now you have 13k on glass cannon.If anet gonna give more 3-5k hp you will be still glass cannon,you’ll just wont get one shotted by killshots or mesmer all the time

Sandrox.9524:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Nephrite.6954:

Majority of the people I’ve met who actually played thief long enough understands this thread. I’m just baffled by the fact that you guys still don’t get the point. I never requested them to increase our health pool to the highest level like necros or warriors, never once I’ve stated that if you read the posts obove. I really don’t want to make my statements rude cause things can get real toxic if you’ve read my previous post and other people on gw2 forum. Guardians are well known for having exceptionally high sustain without much effort, they’ve got a good deal of damage output as well as proper damage mitigation. Fresh air eles getting faced rolled? You seriously don’t expect anyone to trait into full damage output and expect to live long enough right? Is your logic seriously that limited(sorry I just had to). I mean you seriously think that thieves have enough sustain in the current state and that the dev is gonna stop the endless irrationally unjustified nerfs? Giving us medium health pool will provide some breathing room as well as opening the opportunity to not die like flies, exactly like what that’s been stated above. Btw Jayden I’ve seen your post before about thieves, I don’t wish to seem personal but it seems like you seriously seem like a person who would state things with absolute prejudice. It seems as if prejudice should be your middle name.

It doesn’t matter if the HP increase would be to medium or the highest health pools. Without improved active defence, the extra padding with more vitality melts really fast.

You seriously don’t expect anyone to trait into full damage output and expect to live long enough right?

I compared equivalent stat choices for same HP pool classes, ele can die even faster than a thief if hit by the same attack. And it is due to current overbuffed dmg everyone has that the lowest HP classes can die in 1 hit. Why should a thief class be an exception and get more HP to cope with the dmg currently in the game. The solution to that is to nerf dmg output across all classes, not give 1 class more HP.

Because this thread is meant for legitimate points.

What makes a point not legitimate? The fact that someone doens’t agree with you?

ok,give thief the ele active defense,almost perma protection,and self sustain. i will be happy to stay with this on low hp pool.

So pretty much give back feline grace (or single trait perma vigor) and some dodge roll activated defensive traits in the acro line. I wouldn’t mind a thief themed version of the arcana line. I’d like that a lot more than a vitality boost.

The difference in base HP pools are a left-over remnant of the game’s early design and should be scrapped anyways. Give everyone the same base health pool, there are literally no advantages that are tied to having a lower health pool. It’s not like low base hp classes have more defense to make up for it.

If any difference is necessary, your starting health pool should decrease based on your armor. Light = highest health, Medium = medium health. Heavy = lowest health.

Jayden stated everything i wanted to say.
and some of you just dont even understand whats our core problem and just want higher hp pool

@Sandrox

you are the ignorant 1
I dont even know if u are playing thief or not.
I am talking about increasing thief vitality wont solve the problem here.
and having increase hp + our old trait back would make thief Op as kitten and everyone will qq nerf it. So u want thief to be tanky as kitten and do the super burst as well?
Why not make a thread that is more reasonable?

MidoriMarch.8067:

@Sandrox

you are the ignorant 1
I dont even know if u are playing thief or not.
I am talking about increasing thief vitality wont solve the problem here.

Saying 1 thing-no proof or reason why. Lets all accept what you say based on that you said it.

Extra vit→extra hp→extra survivability against burst→profit
While you say no extra vit cause I said it.
see the problem here?
I only asked for vit increase.

MidoriMarch.8067:

Jayden stated everything i wanted to say.
and some of you just dont even understand whats our core problem and just want higher hp pool

Of course we all understand the core problem, the problem that traits are being nerfed without proper speculation. Now you can’t disagree what increasing out vitality won’t increase our overall durability right? And since when does tanky a little but necessarily mean bad play?

Actually both sides has their own relevant points, but i think a higher hp pool wouldnt help againt condis not burst dmg.

Thief doesnt have much reliable condi removal, now with all condis being able to stack, it would just take about 5 seconds to down a thief in a condi spec. Burning hurts like hell right now, not include bleeding poison and other dmg condis.

Eventually a higher hp pool would drag the match 1 or 2 secs more, it wouldnt solve the main issue here either, bad play would still be bad play and thief would still be bad.

I am suggesting

1) resilient in shadows could also provide some condi dmg mitigation like maybe 30 to 50% in stealth?

2) Meld with shadows could make stealth skills last a second longer and decrease reveal duration by a sec?

3) Making blinds stackable?

4) Endless stamina to give 100% effectiveness?

5) Maybe introducing a new trait that would increase the dodge frame of dual skills?

6) Upper hand grants initiative and clear a condi upon a sucessful evade?

7) Quick pockets also grants stealth swiftness upon switching weapons?

The list could go on, but yeah in conclusion raising hp pool wouldnt really help much besides dragging the fight. Thief isnt really suitable for drag fights

Nephrite.6954:

MidoriMarch.8067:

Jayden stated everything i wanted to say.
and some of you just dont even understand whats our core problem and just want higher hp pool

Of course we all understand the core problem, the problem that traits are being nerfed without proper speculation. Now you can’t disagree what increasing out vitality won’t increase our overall durability right? And since when does tanky a little but necessarily mean bad play?

Ok i do understand what u are talking about.

I will apologise for making conflicts.

But don’t forget increasing hp only wont solve the core problem for thief and it may result in more people will say thief op “they hit hard and they are now tanky like warrior and they can stealth too!”

MidoriMarch.8067:

Nephrite.6954:

MidoriMarch.8067:

Jayden stated everything i wanted to say.
and some of you just dont even understand whats our core problem and just want higher hp pool

Of course we all understand the core problem, the problem that traits are being nerfed without proper speculation. Now you can’t disagree what increasing out vitality won’t increase our overall durability right? And since when does tanky a little but necessarily mean bad play?

Ok i do understand what u are talking about.

I will apologise for making conflicts.

But don’t forget increasing hp only wont solve the core problem for thief and it may result in more people will say thief op “they hit hard and they are now tanky like warrior and they can stealth too!”

you do realise that thief hp pool is in the core lower than what it should be for the low hp proffesion (ele got more)

Sandrox.9524:

MidoriMarch.8067:

Nephrite.6954:

MidoriMarch.8067:

Jayden stated everything i wanted to say.
and some of you just dont even understand whats our core problem and just want higher hp pool

Of course we all understand the core problem, the problem that traits are being nerfed without proper speculation. Now you can’t disagree what increasing out vitality won’t increase our overall durability right? And since when does tanky a little but necessarily mean bad play?

Ok i do understand what u are talking about.

I will apologise for making conflicts.

But don’t forget increasing hp only wont solve the core problem for thief and it may result in more people will say thief op “they hit hard and they are now tanky like warrior and they can stealth too!”

you do realise that thief hp pool is in the core lower than what it should be for the low hp proffesion (ele got more)

what?

Id say maybe 1-2k up more at lvl 80, but no more. Thieves are either a glassy slayer that hits 18k backstabs or a tool who runs no skill condi. And condi is the “tank” build since you can take vitality in armour. If you are dying too much and don’t want condi, maybe swap some zerker out for something with a little tough/vit on it. Or you could run shadow thief. The best way to tank is to avoid it all together. Do this with blinds, stealth, and dodges.

Sandrox.9524:

MidoriMarch.8067:

Nephrite.6954:

MidoriMarch.8067:

Jayden stated everything i wanted to say.
and some of you just dont even understand whats our core problem and just want higher hp pool

Of course we all understand the core problem, the problem that traits are being nerfed without proper speculation. Now you can’t disagree what increasing out vitality won’t increase our overall durability right? And since when does tanky a little but necessarily mean bad play?

Ok i do understand what u are talking about.

I will apologise for making conflicts.

But don’t forget increasing hp only wont solve the core problem for thief and it may result in more people will say thief op “they hit hard and they are now tanky like warrior and they can stealth too!”

you do realise that thief hp pool is in the core lower than what it should be for the low hp proffesion (ele got more)

You know ele is a good exmaple for this.

Ele is 1 of professions that has so much sustain & tough to kill.

But as u see ele has super low hp and they still survive so well thats because they have good traits/utility skills weapon set skills thats helps sustain/survival. and thieves need those kind of buffs not just hp increase.

xXBurningEmberXx.6085:

Id say maybe 1-2k up more at lvl 80, but no more. Thieves are either a glassy slayer that hits 18k backstabs or a tool who runs no skill condi. And condi is the “tank” build since you can take vitality in armour. If you are dying too much and don’t want condi, maybe swap some zerker out for something with a little tough/vit on it. Or you could run shadow thief. The best way to tank is to avoid it all together. Do this with blinds, stealth, and dodges.

sigh scroll back and read. I don’t like repeating.

MidoriMarch.8067:

Sandrox.9524:

MidoriMarch.8067:

Nephrite.6954:

MidoriMarch.8067:

Jayden stated everything i wanted to say.
and some of you just dont even understand whats our core problem and just want higher hp pool

Of course we all understand the core problem, the problem that traits are being nerfed without proper speculation. Now you can’t disagree what increasing out vitality won’t increase our overall durability right? And since when does tanky a little but necessarily mean bad play?

Ok i do understand what u are talking about.

I will apologise for making conflicts.

But don’t forget increasing hp only wont solve the core problem for thief and it may result in more people will say thief op “they hit hard and they are now tanky like warrior and they can stealth too!”

you do realise that thief hp pool is in the core lower than what it should be for the low hp proffesion (ele got more)

You know ele is a good exmaple for this.

Ele is 1 of professions that has so much sustain & tough to kill.

But as u see ele has super low hp and they still survive so well thats because they have good traits/utility skills weapon set skills thats helps sustain/survival. and thieves need those kind of buffs not just hp increase.

and btw ele has lower hp than thief you got no idea what u are talking about.

you all have no idea what you talking about, they have the same base HP, as well as guardian, i repeat, the same base hp, not more not less

Thieves definitely need better damage mitigation, but I don’t think increasing health is the solution. I think buffing stealth and a few of the things in our toolkit is the right approach.

Stealth is balanced more as an offensive tool when it really should work better than it does in a defensive capacity. It doesn’t prevent damage, it doesn’t drop aggro, and it only lasts 3 or 4 seconds. Health regeneration and condition removal should actually be baseline for stealth, and it should last longer and drop aggro.

Evades are better at damage mitigation than stealth from my own experience.
I do not run SA though and even with the Feline Grace change, S/d still has plenty of evades – including Signet of Agility, Withdraw, #3 and HoC. I don’t believe Evades are exactly a skilled means to avoid damage though, if there’s so many accessible ways to do regen endurance.

Personally I didn’t suffer from a loss from vitality, but I guess it depends if you go up into groups or players who stack alot of condis.

It does not need to be or should it be an either or when it comes to more ways of mitiagating damage and a higher health pool.

The higher health pool IMHO is warranted in that spike damage was increased significantly to the point where all of a players health can be removed in a single attack. This can not be prevented by more ways of mitigating damage because of the sheer number of such attacks. One can not dodge everything.

What is needed is a bit more way in the margin for error which some more health can give us. It after that where we need some more in the way of mitigation and recovery.

I am not talking many thousands of extra health here. 2 k seems reasonable. Yes it will melt away to onging attacks but the intent is a little more margin for one sudden spike.

babazhook.6805:

It does not need to be or should it be an either or when it comes to more ways of mitiagating damage and a higher health pool.

The higher health pool IMHO is warranted in that spike damage was increased significantly to the point where all of a players health can be removed in a single attack. This can not be prevented by more ways of mitigating damage because of the sheer number of such attacks. One can not dodge everything.

What is needed is a bit more way in the margin for error which some more health can give us. It after that where we need some more in the way of mitigation and recovery.

I am not talking many thousands of extra health here. 2 k seems reasonable. Yes it will melt away to onging attacks but the intent is a little more margin for one sudden spike.

I used to always advocate narrowing the gap between the 3 tiers of health but for some reason people tend to vehemently oppose that notion.

babazhook.6805:

The higher health pool IMHO is warranted in that spike damage was increased significantly to the point where all of a players health can be removed in a single attack.

Totally agree but my take is fix the DPS spike or initial problem. Giving the class more health ignores the core issue of a bad patch to the game and really just aggravates the problem.

It’s ridiculous in casual or lower tier PvP atm as most of the time there’s zero skill or gameplay involved as opposed to who manages to get their gank in first. Anet ranked the DPS up WAY to much in that it eliminates any actual skill as there is no time given to the player to even react and there’s very little longevity given to the player or confrontation to express ones skill.

Every player and class is the same. It’s Gankwars 2.

One-shotting…or even 2/3-shotting in PvP equals bad PvP outside higher level play.

The real questions are a bit mean but probably are the root to the issue. Will an experienced thief who does not overextend have issues with survivability? If your glass and you miss your burst and get punished is that really an issue of a 2,000-3,000 hp?

Imho their isn’t an issue on this class but most of the others. In a burst meta the burst class is king. A well played thief will down anything he or she likes including other thieves. to say, “This class needs a buff!” in this meta without considering the others is a bit silly.

What needs to be toned down is the burst. It will promote more counter play for just about everyone.

TheGuy.3568:

What needs to be toned down is the burst. It will promote more counter play for just about everyone.

Best thing I’ve read post-patch in any thread.

TheGuy.3568:

The real questions are a bit mean but probably are the root to the issue. Will an experienced thief who does not overextend have issues with survivability? If your glass and you miss your burst and get punished is that really an issue of a 2,000-3,000 hp?

Imho their isn’t an issue on this class but most of the others. In a burst meta the burst class is king. A well played thief will down anything he or she likes including other thieves. to say, “This class needs a buff!” in this meta without considering the others is a bit silly.

What needs to be toned down is the burst. It will promote more counter play for just about everyone.

arguable…. i do not enjoy current 1-shot meta but nether i enjoyed last meta where it took ages to kill celestial classes (if sometimes impossible when they chained their skills)

i agree dmg is high atm, from everyone and needs to be toned down but what really needs to happen is ALL classes should have same risk vs reward correlation

what was wrong with last meta? bruiser being too bunkery while dishing out too much dmg
what is wrong with current meta? classes able to dish extremely high dmg while having multiple (good) ways of survival~

this power creep is just wrong
having dps/roamers with high dmg and survival is wrong
having bunkers/bruisers pulling way too much dmg is wrong
simple mechanics, bad positioning, passive gameplay being rewarding is wrong

Problem is: anet doesn’t see balance the way we see it. For them balance mostlikely is: oh this class is underplayed, let’s throw some buffs. Oh this class is played a lot let’s throw some nerfs. Oh, we are adding new class that might not have a job because of the existing classes? Let’s nerf those classes. Plus there are those privat skype messages from few biased top players that actually reach devs.

Cynz.9437:

TheGuy.3568:

The real questions are a bit mean but probably are the root to the issue. Will an experienced thief who does not overextend have issues with survivability? If your glass and you miss your burst and get punished is that really an issue of a 2,000-3,000 hp?

Imho their isn’t an issue on this class but most of the others. In a burst meta the burst class is king. A well played thief will down anything he or she likes including other thieves. to say, “This class needs a buff!” in this meta without considering the others is a bit silly.

What needs to be toned down is the burst. It will promote more counter play for just about everyone.

arguable…. i do not enjoy current 1-shot meta but nether i enjoyed last meta where it took ages to kill celestial classes (if sometimes impossible when they chained their skills)

i agree dmg is high atm, from everyone and needs to be toned down but what really needs to happen is ALL classes should have same risk vs reward correlation

what was wrong with last meta? bruiser being too bunkery while dishing out too much dmg
what is wrong with current meta? classes able to dish extremely high dmg while having multiple (good) ways of survival~

this power creep is just wrong
having dps/roamers with high dmg and survival is wrong
having bunkers/bruisers pulling way too much dmg is wrong
simple mechanics, bad positioning, passive gameplay being rewarding is wrong

Problem is: anet doesn’t see balance the way we see it. For them balance mostlikely is: oh this class is underplayed, let’s throw some buffs. Oh this class is played a lot let’s throw some nerfs. Oh, we are adding new class that might not have a job because of the existing classes? Let’s nerf those classes. Plus there are those privat skype messages from few biased top players that actually reach devs.

Think most of em still don’t get it but +1 for this. Thanks for helping me explain. At least Revenant will be getting all the attention(nerf) now.

MidoriMarch.8067:

Sandrox.9524:

MidoriMarch.8067:

Nephrite.6954:

MidoriMarch.8067:

Jayden stated everything i wanted to say.
and some of you just dont even understand whats our core problem and just want higher hp pool

Of course we all understand the core problem, the problem that traits are being nerfed without proper speculation. Now you can’t disagree what increasing out vitality won’t increase our overall durability right? And since when does tanky a little but necessarily mean bad play?

Ok i do understand what u are talking about.

I will apologise for making conflicts.

But don’t forget increasing hp only wont solve the core problem for thief and it may result in more people will say thief op “they hit hard and they are now tanky like warrior and they can stealth too!”

you do realise that thief hp pool is in the core lower than what it should be for the low hp proffesion (ele got more)

You know ele is a good exmaple for this.

Ele is 1 of professions that has so much sustain & tough to kill.

But as u see ele has super low hp and they still survive so well thats because they have good traits/utility skills weapon set skills thats helps sustain/survival. and thieves need those kind of buffs not just hp increase.

One of those two is welcoming havent said that buffing thieves utlities is bad,it can work aswell.

Cynz.9437:

TheGuy.3568:

The real questions are a bit mean but probably are the root to the issue. Will an experienced thief who does not overextend have issues with survivability? If your glass and you miss your burst and get punished is that really an issue of a 2,000-3,000 hp?

Imho their isn’t an issue on this class but most of the others. In a burst meta the burst class is king. A well played thief will down anything he or she likes including other thieves. to say, “This class needs a buff!” in this meta without considering the others is a bit silly.

What needs to be toned down is the burst. It will promote more counter play for just about everyone.

arguable…. i do not enjoy current 1-shot meta but nether i enjoyed last meta where it took ages to kill celestial classes (if sometimes impossible when they chained their skills)

i agree dmg is high atm, from everyone and needs to be toned down but what really needs to happen is ALL classes should have same risk vs reward correlation

what was wrong with last meta? bruiser being too bunkery while dishing out too much dmg
what is wrong with current meta? classes able to dish extremely high dmg while having multiple (good) ways of survival~

this power creep is just wrong
having dps/roamers with high dmg and survival is wrong
having bunkers/bruisers pulling way too much dmg is wrong
simple mechanics, bad positioning, passive gameplay being rewarding is wrong

Problem is: anet doesn’t see balance the way we see it. For them balance mostlikely is: oh this class is underplayed, let’s throw some buffs. Oh this class is played a lot let’s throw some nerfs. Oh, we are adding new class that might not have a job because of the existing classes? Let’s nerf those classes. Plus there are those privat skype messages from few biased top players that actually reach devs.

The problem with standardizing risk reward is thief should and would get the short end of that stick. I know and you know playing thief with no over-extension you could and will kill most anything and escape. Not a complaint but that is the nature of the class. Anets response has been to add in more revealed traits for other classes but in the process gutted most builds outside D/P (including DD outside PvE). To this point it has been a slow but steady power creep leaving one build and role standing all in the name of balance.

If you look at the big picture while celestial might have been top of the pack in the old meta what you have now is less build diversity across the board and less classes in PvP. WvW adapts but deals with the same bad outlook.

I think as long as conquest is the measuring stick by which balance is tested, power creep is the meta, players have difference in skill, and builds get dumbed down more and more we won’t see a hint of balance. It has been two years and there has been no change in attitude at Anet. Esport sits atop a hill an impossible goal and the thorn by which balance will never be achieved.

I think a bit of extra vitality won’t make or break anything. Risk reward was out the window long ago. We may hate preset roles but RPS balancing made this a lot easier.

I do not believe that given same skill level thief could kill every single class out there and get away. Also, game is based around small scale group pvp and not 1v1.

It does suck that there is not much varierity, but let’s be happy we have at last one somehow competitive build (could be rangers~). If Anet could balance 1 build for every class for pvp at least it would be a start. You know it is not the case atm though.

I think it is fine that classes are balanced around pvp. Why?

PvE is quite easy and easily rewarding, NPCs will never complain about players killing them. Balancing around pve usually leads to extreme imbalance, never seen in gw2 yet. Did experience it a lot in wow though where pve balancing lead to 1 shots in pvp for months w/o devs aknowledging it.

WvW is just too imbalanced numbers wise + food + gear and level variation. I don’t think it is even remotely possible to gain any balance around that area.

That is my point though. There would be less frustration across the board if risk/reward balancing actually existed. It doesn’t exist because of managment poilitics making money: we bring out new class? Make it OP for few months so everyone buys xpac. This happens in EVERY SINGLE online game out there that adds new characters/champions/classes. Risk/reward balancing really needs to happen but sadly it won’t as Anet is a company and they want to make money; they do not care weither we find game combat fair or not.

Cynz.9437:

I do not believe that given same skill level thief could kill every single class out there and get away. Also, game is based around small scale group pvp and not 1v1.

It does suck that there is not much varierity, but let’s be happy we have at last one somehow competitive build (could be rangers~). If Anet could balance 1 build for every class for pvp at least it would be a start. You know it is not the case atm though.

I think it is fine that classes are balanced around pvp. Why?

PvE is quite easy and easily rewarding, NPCs will never complain about players killing them. Balancing around pve usually leads to extreme imbalance, never seen in gw2 yet. Did experience it a lot in wow though where pve balancing lead to 1 shots in pvp for months w/o devs aknowledging it.

WvW is just too imbalanced numbers wise + food + gear and level variation. I don’t think it is even remotely possible to gain any balance around that area.

That is my point though. There would be less frustration across the board if risk/reward balancing actually existed. It doesn’t exist because of managment poilitics making money: we bring out new class? Make it OP for few months so everyone buys xpac. This happens in EVERY SINGLE online game out there that adds new characters/champions/classes. Risk/reward balancing really needs to happen but sadly it won’t as Anet is a company and they want to make money; they do not care weither we find game combat fair or not.

Thieves that can’t disengage before they die is doing it wrong period. Not even up for debate. I used to pull that off with SB and very little stealth. No matter how good the other player is they can not force you to overextend. In WvW or PvP that never changes you start losing you reset and go at it again simple as that.

Settling for mediocrity while complaining the heads are doing it wrong is the literal definition of a half hearted effort.

PvP and PvE balancing should be separate. Anet said it would be too confusing for new players. Yet a game this old will have less new players and more old players coming back. So, no it does not make sense to have ALL balance changes primarily based on PvP.

WvW gets no real attention from any one who cares about it. This event is proof enough of that.

Risk reward would mean no more burst and run by any class including thief. If you have that much burst be like medi guard. Since most thief builds are built around the capability to burst, fail, reset, and try again that won’t help thief at all.

I didn’t say thieves can’t disengage but if you spent entire match “disengaging” you are not gonna have any points.

“Settling for mediocrity while complaining the heads are doing it wrong is the literal definition of a half hearted effort.” <<elaborate this please.

In perfect world yes, pvp and pve should be separate. In reality it will never happen. The joke is blizz and some other companies threw exactly same, word per word excuse why they didn’t separate pve and pvp. They would have to hire mode devs for it and it will never happen.

High risk doesn’t mean you have to run with 0 defense.

Cynz.9437:

I didn’t say thieves can’t disengage but if you spent entire match “disengaging” you are not gonna have any points.

“Settling for mediocrity while complaining the heads are doing it wrong is the literal definition of a half hearted effort.” <<elaborate this please.

In perfect world yes, pvp and pve should be separate. In reality it will never happen. The joke is blizz and some other companies threw exactly same, word per word excuse why they didn’t separate pve and pvp. They would have to hire mode devs for it and it will never happen.

High risk doesn’t mean you have to run with 0 defense.

If you are losing and can’t turn it around the smart move is to disengage if support is not incoming. You just become a body to put down and by disengaging you can add another body to another point to help out. If you look at points alone you are doing it wrong like seriously doing it wrong. Some times you have to hold points and defend and score less points. If you want to do what’s best for the team you are not checking your personal points you are looking at the map seeing where you are needed. That’s true across every class.

Saying that having one build working to its full capability and being happy with that is the opposite of trying to get change done. It is the equivalent of saying, “You shouldn’t be doing this to us but if you just leave us this one thing we won’t complain that much.” If you want change fight for it.

Many of us came from GW1 where it was separate. While this is bigger game no triple A company can say that and we believe them. It might be more work but a better product has better retention. If we go on pop alone PvE should actually set balance but from day one the smallest community (sPvP) has set the tone. When WvW was packed to the gills and PvE which is the highest pop PvP is still the standard for balance. And lets be real here reward tracks were to get bodies from PvE into PvP.

You said all classes should share the same risk reward. If that were so every class should have the capability to tank, equal mobility, the same burst, and the same capability to run. Thief can’t tank (PD can to a degree) but it can disengage at will and have the mobility to keep running. Warrior can run but can’t disengage at will. Mesmer can disengage but doesn’t have the mobility to out run most classes. Saying that risk and reward should be balanced cross class would really mean making big moves like removing stealth or adding it to each class with decent access because only thief and mesmer have it strong enough to pull off disengages consistently. It just won’t make any sense. Might as well have everyone play the same class.

TheGuy.3568:

Cynz.9437:

I didn’t say thieves can’t disengage but if you spent entire match “disengaging” you are not gonna have any points.

“Settling for mediocrity while complaining the heads are doing it wrong is the literal definition of a half hearted effort.” <<elaborate this please.

In perfect world yes, pvp and pve should be separate. In reality it will never happen. The joke is blizz and some other companies threw exactly same, word per word excuse why they didn’t separate pve and pvp. They would have to hire mode devs for it and it will never happen.

High risk doesn’t mean you have to run with 0 defense.

If you are losing and can’t turn it around the smart move is to disengage if support is not incoming. You just become a body to put down and by disengaging you can add another body to another point to help out. If you look at points alone you are doing it wrong like seriously doing it wrong. Some times you have to hold points and defend and score less points. If you want to do what’s best for the team you are not checking your personal points you are looking at the map seeing where you are needed. That’s true across every class.

Saying that having one build working to its full capability and being happy with that is the opposite of trying to get change done. It is the equivalent of saying, “You shouldn’t be doing this to us but if you just leave us this one thing we won’t complain that much.” If you want change fight for it.

Many of us came from GW1 where it was separate. While this is bigger game no triple A company can say that and we believe them. It might be more work but a better product has better retention. If we go on pop alone PvE should actually set balance but from day one the smallest community (sPvP) has set the tone. When WvW was packed to the gills and PvE which is the highest pop PvP is still the standard for balance. And lets be real here reward tracks were to get bodies from PvE into PvP.

You said all classes should share the same risk reward. If that were so every class should have the capability to tank, equal mobility, the same burst, and the same capability to run. Thief can’t tank (PD can to a degree) but it can disengage at will and have the mobility to keep running. Warrior can run but can’t disengage at will. Mesmer can disengage but doesn’t have the mobility to out run most classes. Saying that risk and reward should be balanced cross class would really mean making big moves like removing stealth or adding it to each class with decent access because only thief and mesmer have it strong enough to pull off disengages consistently. It just won’t make any sense. Might as well have everyone play the same class.

Your post doesn’t make sense. What are you trying to prove here?==

Nephrite.6954:

TheGuy.3568:

Cynz.9437:

I didn’t say thieves can’t disengage but if you spent entire match “disengaging” you are not gonna have any points.

“Settling for mediocrity while complaining the heads are doing it wrong is the literal definition of a half hearted effort.” <<elaborate this please.

In perfect world yes, pvp and pve should be separate. In reality it will never happen. The joke is blizz and some other companies threw exactly same, word per word excuse why they didn’t separate pve and pvp. They would have to hire mode devs for it and it will never happen.

High risk doesn’t mean you have to run with 0 defense.

If you are losing and can’t turn it around the smart move is to disengage if support is not incoming. You just become a body to put down and by disengaging you can add another body to another point to help out. If you look at points alone you are doing it wrong like seriously doing it wrong. Some times you have to hold points and defend and score less points. If you want to do what’s best for the team you are not checking your personal points you are looking at the map seeing where you are needed. That’s true across every class.

Saying that having one build working to its full capability and being happy with that is the opposite of trying to get change done. It is the equivalent of saying, “You shouldn’t be doing this to us but if you just leave us this one thing we won’t complain that much.” If you want change fight for it.

Many of us came from GW1 where it was separate. While this is bigger game no triple A company can say that and we believe them. It might be more work but a better product has better retention. If we go on pop alone PvE should actually set balance but from day one the smallest community (sPvP) has set the tone. When WvW was packed to the gills and PvE which is the highest pop PvP is still the standard for balance. And lets be real here reward tracks were to get bodies from PvE into PvP.

You said all classes should share the same risk reward. If that were so every class should have the capability to tank, equal mobility, the same burst, and the same capability to run. Thief can’t tank (PD can to a degree) but it can disengage at will and have the mobility to keep running. Warrior can run but can’t disengage at will. Mesmer can disengage but doesn’t have the mobility to out run most classes. Saying that risk and reward should be balanced cross class would really mean making big moves like removing stealth or adding it to each class with decent access because only thief and mesmer have it strong enough to pull off disengages consistently. It just won’t make any sense. Might as well have everyone play the same class.

Your post doesn’t make sense. What are you trying to prove here?==

If you have something worthwhile to say then say it. If something as simple as logic goes over your head why admit it? I was having a discussion and it wasn’t with you. Does that clarify thing?

TheGuy.3568:

Nephrite.6954:

TheGuy.3568:

Cynz.9437:

I didn’t say thieves can’t disengage but if you spent entire match “disengaging” you are not gonna have any points.

“Settling for mediocrity while complaining the heads are doing it wrong is the literal definition of a half hearted effort.” <<elaborate this please.

In perfect world yes, pvp and pve should be separate. In reality it will never happen. The joke is blizz and some other companies threw exactly same, word per word excuse why they didn’t separate pve and pvp. They would have to hire mode devs for it and it will never happen.

High risk doesn’t mean you have to run with 0 defense.

If you are losing and can’t turn it around the smart move is to disengage if support is not incoming. You just become a body to put down and by disengaging you can add another body to another point to help out. If you look at points alone you are doing it wrong like seriously doing it wrong. Some times you have to hold points and defend and score less points. If you want to do what’s best for the team you are not checking your personal points you are looking at the map seeing where you are needed. That’s true across every class.

Saying that having one build working to its full capability and being happy with that is the opposite of trying to get change done. It is the equivalent of saying, “You shouldn’t be doing this to us but if you just leave us this one thing we won’t complain that much.” If you want change fight for it.

Many of us came from GW1 where it was separate. While this is bigger game no triple A company can say that and we believe them. It might be more work but a better product has better retention. If we go on pop alone PvE should actually set balance but from day one the smallest community (sPvP) has set the tone. When WvW was packed to the gills and PvE which is the highest pop PvP is still the standard for balance. And lets be real here reward tracks were to get bodies from PvE into PvP.

You said all classes should share the same risk reward. If that were so every class should have the capability to tank, equal mobility, the same burst, and the same capability to run. Thief can’t tank (PD can to a degree) but it can disengage at will and have the mobility to keep running. Warrior can run but can’t disengage at will. Mesmer can disengage but doesn’t have the mobility to out run most classes. Saying that risk and reward should be balanced cross class would really mean making big moves like removing stealth or adding it to each class with decent access because only thief and mesmer have it strong enough to pull off disengages consistently. It just won’t make any sense. Might as well have everyone play the same class.

Your post doesn’t make sense. What are you trying to prove here?==

If you have something worthwhile to say then say it. If something as simple as logic goes over your head why admit it? I was having a discussion and it wasn’t with you. Does that clarify thing?

Hey bimbo, saw your post about how D/P is overpowered, looks like you don’t know kitten about thieves or any other classes that exist in the game. Warriors can disengage with mobility and stances, Mesmers can disangage with stealth(they don’t need the mobility since they’ve got invulnerablility). Guild Wars 1? Please don’t go too far off topic. Don’t you get the point? Thieves have been nerfed till we can’t stand against the majority of the builds out there. They’re either too tanky or out-burst this class. What gills? Guilds?