Guild Wars 2

Columba.9730:

This is not my experience at all. I see it everywhere in WvWvW. Secondly, even if it did only affect the people in large groups, it’s still broken.

Zergs are unfair.

Can we nerf zergs please.

I can’t do anything against them and they’re almost perma invis until after I’m dead.

They’re a broken mechanic that is ruining the game.

Zergs disproportionately benefit from the culling bug.

Remove zergs from the game ASAP please!

Thanks!

EDIT: Yea…that’s how silly you cry babies sound when you complain about stealth being an issue due to culling.

Kurow.6973:

Columba.9730:

This is not my experience at all. I see it everywhere in WvWvW. Secondly, even if it did only affect the people in large groups, it’s still broken.

Zergs are unfair.

Can we nerf zergs please.

I can’t do anything against them and they’re almost perma invis until after I’m dead.

They’re a broken mechanic that is ruining the game.

Zergs disproportionately benefit from the culling bug.

Remove zergs from the game ASAP please!

Thanks!

EDIT: Yea…that’s how silly you cry babies sound when you complain about stealth being an issue due to culling.

Except there are thieves who intentionally abuse the culling system. And unlike other classes thieves gain more than anyone else from culling.

Trying to sweep how crappy the invis/culling issue is with thieves under the rug by comparing it to zergs culling isn’t really going to save thieves from getting nerfed in the future.

It seems to be there are people who can not fight thieves tat are using the culling to try and get a nerf through on the thieves. There are MANY MANY videos of players killing thieves that have “Perma” stealth, just because you can not does not mean that thieves as a whole need a nerf.

Ron.4920:

In every video game where invisibility is involved, the invisible player will have an unfair advantage.

Lets just imagine this hypothetical situation. You are pretty low on money at the moment, and you have to gamble to make ends meet. There is a gym right near where you live that has boxing matches on the weekends. There is a guy who sits at a table in the back room, you can place bets with him. You go up to place your very first bet, it is your last few dollars. You know nothing about either fighters at the moment, so you say to the bookie. Can you tell me about the fighters? The bookie says well one of the fighters is invisible. Which do you choose the visible fighter, or the invisible one?

That depends. Is the visible boxer clad in heavy armor and wielding a giant 2-handed sword? Is he spinning around so he can hit that invisible guy in the ring where ever he goes? Is he also healing himself?

Yeah, I’ll take the visible guy.

oh look another tear stained thread of newbs crying about thiefs the only build that can really abuse culling is the P/D build its a condi build and its very hard to keep it up.

Dundir.2853:

It seems to be there are people who can not fight thieves tat are using the culling to try and get a nerf through on the thieves. There are MANY MANY videos of players killing thieves that have “Perma” stealth, just because you can not does not mean that thieves as a whole need a nerf.

I never said they need a nerf as a whole. EIther the culling bug needs to be fixed to prevent thieves from getting a huge benefit, stealth needs to get longer cool downs, or thief dps needs to be reduced. Having the highest dps, perma stealth, best mobility and best escape tools all in one class simply isn’t balanced. I know thieves want to dismiss these concerns, but many players are voicing them. Many thieves admit its too much.

I’m not sure where you are getting the highest DPS from. have you added a DPS meter to the game that we can all use to see this Highest DPS. If so I would love to have access to it. Could you possibly compare the thieves DPS coming out of stealth to that of a shatter built mesmer that has all clones active uses the sword skill to port and root you as he blows up all clones and hits his invul sword two skill while you are rooted and take obsence amounts of damage?

Columba.9730:

Dundir.2853:

It seems to be there are people who can not fight thieves tat are using the culling to try and get a nerf through on the thieves. There are MANY MANY videos of players killing thieves that have “Perma” stealth, just because you can not does not mean that thieves as a whole need a nerf.

I never said they need a nerf as a whole. EIther the culling bug needs to be fixed to prevent thieves from getting a huge benefit, stealth needs to get longer cool downs, or thief dps needs to be reduced. Having the highest dps, perma stealth, best mobility and best escape tools all in one class simply isn’t balanced. I know thieves want to dismiss these concerns, but many players are voicing them. Many thieves admit its too much.

Highest Dps? No Perma stealth? well you cant have constant stealth its impossible you can have a very low visible downtime with the P/D build but you have no burst damage. Best escape tools and Mobility? LOL i take it you have never played D/D ele there mobility and escapes are second to none.

“I know thieves want to dismiss these concerns” Yes they do simply because it isnt the truth all it is are newbs getting stomped by glass cannons.

“but many players are voicing them” replace players with newbs and your right you don’t see any high ranking Tpvp players cry about thieves in WvW do you? noooooo and before you say something like Tpvp players dont play WvW im in a guild full of em and yes they do.

“Many thieves admit its too much” Really seems to be alot of thieves in here and they seem to disagree with you or if you mean the guy thats says “Oh hai i leveled a thief and at lv 21 in full toughness/vit i was still oneshotting tanks thieves need nerfs!” well chances are they are not thieves =/

as a thief player with the culling issues i can see against people who DO NOT KNOW how to counter gc thieves it would be a massive issue but that’s up to them to learn i mean you come to the forums why not make a Thread called “Having trouble countering gc thief need advice please” im sure you would get your answer and help other plays who need that advice too.

Well I simply advise those who are getting 3 shotted by invisible enemies to raise your concerns to anet. It’s all we can do.

Columba.9730:

Well I simply advise those who are getting 3 shotted by invisible enemies to raise your concerns to anet. It’s all we can do.

yea just ignore what i wrote there simply because you cant say anything against it

Well I simply advise those who are getting 3 shotted by invisible enemies to keep crying to anet its all we can do" is much better or maybe

Well I simply advise those who are getting 3 shotted by invisible enemies to ask for advice on forums or look for a guide and ofc stop running a GC spec" but that might be pushing it too far

I didn’t ignore anything. Permastealth due to culling is a reality. It’s a bug. They need to fix the culling bug or adjust thieves. it’s pretty clear. 24k HP and 1600 toughness, but I guess that’s a glass cannon spec.

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

Trying to sweep how crappy the invis/culling issue is with thieves under the rug by comparing it to zergs culling isn’t really going to save thieves from getting nerfed in the future.

Their not sweeping it under a rug, their saying that culling when not attached to a zerg doesnt exist.

Columba.9730:

I didn’t ignore anything. Permastealth due to culling is a reality. It’s a bug. They need to fix the culling bug or adjust thieves. it’s pretty clear. 24k HP and 1600 toughness, but I guess that’s a glass cannon spec.

You did ignore everything you cannot be stealthed forever go make a thief and please make video of you stealthing for 20mins straight completely unbreakable to a enemy

you didnt even attempt to back up your best damage/escape/mobility simply because you know your wrong like the rest of the thief QQers u all say the same but when what you say is put under scrutiny you cant say anything back.

“it’s pretty clear. 24k HP and 1600 toughness, but I guess that’s a glass cannon spec.” what class are you no point just saying a bunch of stats i can pull around 23k with around 1.2k toughness on a GC warrior

@Mechanix; with all due respect you can actually perma stealth. I saw this thread and went away to test it out. It is fairly easy to maintain as long as you have a mix of certain traits.

Ideally you need a minimum of 20pts in shadow arts to get the following:

Adept trait ( I ) Master of Deception – 20% reduction on deception skills CD
Adept trait ( V ) Infusion of Shadow – 2 intiative on skills that stealth you

15pt minor trait – Meld with shadows – stealth lasts 1 sec longer

Utility skills:

Blinding Powder – (traited – 32 sec CD )
Shadow Refuge – ( traited – 48 sec CD )
Hide in Shadows – 30 sec CD

With D/P weapon setup you do the following;

1. blinding powder
2. heartseeker x3 – through Smoke field

from here if you have the initiative to do it again then go for it, you’ll actually get the 2 initiative from comboing heartseeker and blinding powder each time you pass through – giving you initiatve for the 2 additional heartseekers through the first field.

this should give about 9 secs of stealth.

you use that to wait out intitative regen and if you’ve enough Initiative you do it again.
if youre missing just a few you can pop blinding powder for 3 more secs to wait out for more intitative.

when youre back to full intiatiuve you blinding powder heartseeker x3 again until intiative runs out.

at this point either or both Hide in shadows and blinding powder will be on CD so you can use shadow refuge to regen stealth and initiative.

Shadow refuge actually provides alot more intiative regen than just the 2 as each 3 second tick in the Shadow refuge field counts as a stealth action so you’ll regen intiative really really quickly.

you can then heartseeker x3 through blinding powder on pistol again – by this time hide in shadows and blinding powder are off CD and you keep going.

you can also use smoke screen as an additional utility to make it even easier to stay perma stealth but i like running signet of shadows – a good solid blind and move increase is awesome.

If the 50% move speed in stealth ever worked right – i’d move my 10pts in deadly arts to acrobatics for kittens and giggles.

I’m sure there must be a few more ways to keep going – you could always get Hidden thief – but i prefer the stealth regen.

BIG BUT! -

whilst this is fun to see how long you can keep it up – in combat it is impractical. You want to deal damage and keep up pressure.

Giving your opponent breathing space is just asking for 2-3 of his mates to come along and help the player you’re playing against shank you whilst you’re prancing around being clever.

As for the burst – you can still get a reasonable 6K -7K backstab out of a build even if you’ve got 30 pts in Shadow arts and only 10 pts in deadly arts.

great thing about D/P is you can blind an opponent like a mad man giving alot of survivability without having to stack defensive stats to a level that’s harmful to your damage output.

@OP In order to deal damage to you we have to hit you – hitting you from stealth gives us reveal debuff unless we wait for the stealth to fall off – in which case we’re not doing our big stealth openers on you.

This means you have time to react to our actions. If we re- stealth, either prepare to dodge or block the attack coming or get ready to drop a stun/daze/knock down/ knock back.

thats 6 options right there -

if you got spanked hard from stealth chances are the thief used a stealth opener which means you have 3 seconds to do something before the thief can re stealth because of reveal.

3 seconds is a good amount of time to do one of those 6 things.

TL;DR

We thieves can perma stealth, it’s fun to see how long you can keep it up for before you get bored – however it’s not worth it as you kinda want to deal butt loads of damage rather than hide forever and draw out a fight.

oneleggedpony.8531:

@Mechanix; with all due respect you can actually perma stealth. I saw this thread and went away to test it out. It is fairly easy to maintain as long as you have a mix of certain traits.

Ideally you need a minimum of 20pts in shadow arts to get the following:

Adept trait ( I ) Master of Deception – 20% reduction on deception skills CD
Adept trait ( V ) Infusion of Shadow – 2 intiative on skills that stealth you

15pt minor trait – Meld with shadows – stealth lasts 1 sec longer

Utility skills:

Blinding Powder – (traited – 32 sec CD )
Shadow Refuge – ( traited – 48 sec CD )
Hide in Shadows – 30 sec CD

With D/P weapon setup you do the following;

1. blinding powder
2. heartseeker x3 – through Smoke field

from here if you have the initiative to do it again then go for it, you’ll actually get the 2 initiative from comboing heartseeker and blinding powder each time you pass through – giving you initiatve for the 2 additional heartseekers through the first field.

this should give about 9 secs of stealth.

you use that to wait out intitative regen and if you’ve enough Initiative you do it again.
if youre missing just a few you can pop blinding powder for 3 more secs to wait out for more intitative.

when youre back to full intiatiuve you blinding powder heartseeker x3 again until intiative runs out.

at this point either or both Hide in shadows and blinding powder will be on CD so you can use shadow refuge to regen stealth and initiative.

Shadow refuge actually provides alot more intiative regen than just the 2 as each 3 second tick in the Shadow refuge field counts as a stealth action so you’ll regen intiative really really quickly.

you can then heartseeker x3 through blinding powder on pistol again – by this time hide in shadows and blinding powder are off CD and you keep going.

you can also use smoke screen as an additional utility to make it even easier to stay perma stealth but i like running signet of shadows – a good solid blind and move increase is awesome.

If the 50% move speed in stealth ever worked right – i’d move my 10pts in deadly arts to acrobatics for kittens and giggles.

I’m sure there must be a few more ways to keep going – you could always get Hidden thief – but i prefer the stealth regen.

BIG BUT! -

whilst this is fun to see how long you can keep it up – in combat it is impractical. You want to deal damage and keep up pressure.

Giving your opponent breathing space is just asking for 2-3 of his mates to come along and help the player you’re playing against shank you whilst you’re prancing around being clever.

As for the burst – you can still get a reasonable 6K -7K backstab out of a build even if you’ve got 30 pts in Shadow arts and only 10 pts in deadly arts.

great thing about D/P is you can blind an opponent like a mad man giving alot of survivability without having to stack defensive stats to a level that’s harmful to your damage output.

@OP In order to deal damage to you we have to hit you – hitting you from stealth gives us reveal debuff unless we wait for the stealth to fall off – in which case we’re not doing our big stealth openers on you.

This means you have time to react to our actions. If we re- stealth, either prepare to dodge or block the attack coming or get ready to drop a stun/daze/knock down/ knock back.

thats 6 options right there -

if you got spanked hard from stealth chances are the thief used a stealth opener which means you have 3 seconds to do something before the thief can re stealth because of reveal.

3 seconds is a good amount of time to do one of those 6 things.

TL;DR

We thieves can perma stealth, it’s fun to see how long you can keep it up for before you get bored – however it’s not worth it as you kinda want to deal butt loads of damage rather than hide forever and draw out a fight.

yes i know you can maintain perma stealth but he seems to think you can attack and still maintain permastealth he doesn’t seem to understand that big part of it

oneleggedpony.8531:

@Mechanix; with all due respect you can actually perma stealth. I saw this thread and went away to test it out. It is fairly easy to maintain as long as you have a mix of certain traits.

Ideally you need a minimum of 20pts in shadow arts to get the following:

Adept trait ( I ) Master of Deception – 20% reduction on deception skills CD
Adept trait ( V ) Infusion of Shadow – 2 intiative on skills that stealth you

15pt minor trait – Meld with shadows – stealth lasts 1 sec longer

Utility skills:

Blinding Powder – (traited – 32 sec CD )
Shadow Refuge – ( traited – 48 sec CD )
Hide in Shadows – 30 sec CD

With D/P weapon setup you do the following;

1. blinding powder
2. heartseeker x3 – through Smoke field

from here if you have the initiative to do it again then go for it, you’ll actually get the 2 initiative from comboing heartseeker and blinding powder each time you pass through – giving you initiatve for the 2 additional heartseekers through the first field.

this should give about 9 secs of stealth.

you use that to wait out intitative regen and if you’ve enough Initiative you do it again.
if youre missing just a few you can pop blinding powder for 3 more secs to wait out for more intitative.

when youre back to full intiatiuve you blinding powder heartseeker x3 again until intiative runs out.

at this point either or both Hide in shadows and blinding powder will be on CD so you can use shadow refuge to regen stealth and initiative.

Shadow refuge actually provides alot more intiative regen than just the 2 as each 3 second tick in the Shadow refuge field counts as a stealth action so you’ll regen intiative really really quickly.

you can then heartseeker x3 through blinding powder on pistol again – by this time hide in shadows and blinding powder are off CD and you keep going.

you can also use smoke screen as an additional utility to make it even easier to stay perma stealth but i like running signet of shadows – a good solid blind and move increase is awesome.

If the 50% move speed in stealth ever worked right – i’d move my 10pts in deadly arts to acrobatics for kittens and giggles.

I’m sure there must be a few more ways to keep going – you could always get Hidden thief – but i prefer the stealth regen.

BIG BUT! -

whilst this is fun to see how long you can keep it up – in combat it is impractical. You want to deal damage and keep up pressure.

Giving your opponent breathing space is just asking for 2-3 of his mates to come along and help the player you’re playing against shank you whilst you’re prancing around being clever.

As for the burst – you can still get a reasonable 6K -7K backstab out of a build even if you’ve got 30 pts in Shadow arts and only 10 pts in deadly arts.

great thing about D/P is you can blind an opponent like a mad man giving alot of survivability without having to stack defensive stats to a level that’s harmful to your damage output.

@OP In order to deal damage to you we have to hit you – hitting you from stealth gives us reveal debuff unless we wait for the stealth to fall off – in which case we’re not doing our big stealth openers on you.

This means you have time to react to our actions. If we re- stealth, either prepare to dodge or block the attack coming or get ready to drop a stun/daze/knock down/ knock back.

thats 6 options right there -

if you got spanked hard from stealth chances are the thief used a stealth opener which means you have 3 seconds to do something before the thief can re stealth because of reveal.

3 seconds is a good amount of time to do one of those 6 things.

TL;DR

We thieves can perma stealth, it’s fun to see how long you can keep it up for before you get bored – however it’s not worth it as you kinda want to deal butt loads of damage rather than hide forever and draw out a fight.

With culling bugs you can get the same permastealth benefits and higher dps. that’s a balance issue. you can’t deny the facts. This gentleman shows them here, and the culling bug makes it even easier. I am sorry but facts are facts. How about the thief apologists trying to get the game balanced in the right way so that your class isn’t ruined vs. denying facts? I’d like to see the class balanced not ruined.

Columba.9730:

oneleggedpony.8531:

@Mechanix; with all due respect you can actually perma stealth. I saw this thread and went away to test it out. It is fairly easy to maintain as long as you have a mix of certain traits.

Ideally you need a minimum of 20pts in shadow arts to get the following:

Adept trait ( I ) Master of Deception – 20% reduction on deception skills CD
Adept trait ( V ) Infusion of Shadow – 2 intiative on skills that stealth you

15pt minor trait – Meld with shadows – stealth lasts 1 sec longer

Utility skills:

Blinding Powder – (traited – 32 sec CD )
Shadow Refuge – ( traited – 48 sec CD )
Hide in Shadows – 30 sec CD

With D/P weapon setup you do the following;

1. blinding powder
2. heartseeker x3 – through Smoke field

from here if you have the initiative to do it again then go for it, you’ll actually get the 2 initiative from comboing heartseeker and blinding powder each time you pass through – giving you initiatve for the 2 additional heartseekers through the first field.

this should give about 9 secs of stealth.

you use that to wait out intitative regen and if you’ve enough Initiative you do it again.
if youre missing just a few you can pop blinding powder for 3 more secs to wait out for more intitative.

when youre back to full intiatiuve you blinding powder heartseeker x3 again until intiative runs out.

at this point either or both Hide in shadows and blinding powder will be on CD so you can use shadow refuge to regen stealth and initiative.

Shadow refuge actually provides alot more intiative regen than just the 2 as each 3 second tick in the Shadow refuge field counts as a stealth action so you’ll regen intiative really really quickly.

you can then heartseeker x3 through blinding powder on pistol again – by this time hide in shadows and blinding powder are off CD and you keep going.

you can also use smoke screen as an additional utility to make it even easier to stay perma stealth but i like running signet of shadows – a good solid blind and move increase is awesome.

If the 50% move speed in stealth ever worked right – i’d move my 10pts in deadly arts to acrobatics for kittens and giggles.

I’m sure there must be a few more ways to keep going – you could always get Hidden thief – but i prefer the stealth regen.

BIG BUT! -

whilst this is fun to see how long you can keep it up – in combat it is impractical. You want to deal damage and keep up pressure.

Giving your opponent breathing space is just asking for 2-3 of his mates to come along and help the player you’re playing against shank you whilst you’re prancing around being clever.

As for the burst – you can still get a reasonable 6K -7K backstab out of a build even if you’ve got 30 pts in Shadow arts and only 10 pts in deadly arts.

great thing about D/P is you can blind an opponent like a mad man giving alot of survivability without having to stack defensive stats to a level that’s harmful to your damage output.

@OP In order to deal damage to you we have to hit you – hitting you from stealth gives us reveal debuff unless we wait for the stealth to fall off – in which case we’re not doing our big stealth openers on you.

This means you have time to react to our actions. If we re- stealth, either prepare to dodge or block the attack coming or get ready to drop a stun/daze/knock down/ knock back.

thats 6 options right there -

if you got spanked hard from stealth chances are the thief used a stealth opener which means you have 3 seconds to do something before the thief can re stealth because of reveal.

3 seconds is a good amount of time to do one of those 6 things.

TL;DR

We thieves can perma stealth, it’s fun to see how long you can keep it up for before you get bored – however it’s not worth it as you kinda want to deal butt loads of damage rather than hide forever and draw out a fight.

With culling bugs you can get the same permastealth benefits and higher dps. that’s a balance issue. you can’t deny the facts. This gentleman shows them here, and the culling bug makes it even easier. I am sorry but facts are facts. How about the thief apologists trying to get the game balanced in the right way so that your class isn’t ruined vs. denying facts? I’d like to see the class balanced not ruined.

Culling is the issue, not Thieves. Sure Stealth is benefiting from culling, but in the end it is the culling. Zergs benefit from culling and so do Mesmers.

If you are keeping yourself perma-stealthed as a Thief, then you are not doing very much or any damage to your opponent.

Culling is allowing the Thief to benefit from both, but it IS NOT a balance issue with the Thief. It is an issue with Server Mechanics.

“@OP In order to deal damage to you we have to hit you – hitting you from stealth gives us reveal debuff unless we wait for the stealth to fall off – in which case we’re not doing our big stealth openers on you.

This means you have time to react to our actions. If we re- stealth, either prepare to dodge or block the attack coming or get ready to drop a stun/daze/knock down/ knock back."

Read that above

“With culling bugs you can get the same permastealth benefits and higher dps. that’s a balance issue. you can’t deny the facts. This gentleman shows them here, and the culling bug makes it even easier. I am sorry but facts are facts. How about the thief apologists trying to get the game balanced in the right way so that your class isn’t ruined vs. denying facts? I’d like to see the class balanced not ruined.”

The guy shows how you can get perma stealth but without attacking, ATTACKING PUTS A 3SEC DEBUFF ON YOU K you cannot stealth with that debuff maybe your understand that culling does notlast for 3secs extra unless maybe your in a zerg if your in a zerg you have got alot more worries than a GC thief “I am sorry but facts are facts” idd they are so understand that what your saying is impossible and what im saying is right.

“How about the thief apologists trying to get the game balanced in the right way so that your class isn’t ruined vs. denying facts? I’d like to see the class balanced not ruined”. if anything it should be newbs like you that come and cry on forums that get classes heavily nerfed look at the Ia/smuggler from TOR and how the QQ ruined that class thats what gonna happen to the thief i put in too much effort on my thief to see it be ruined by players who wont go to the effort of reading up and bettering themselves instead come and cry and yet again you have ignored my previous post when you gonna reply to the things you have said and justify them instead of just spewing a bunch of random kitten everywhere like i said your just another L2P issue and guess what last patch the theif got a buff! it wasnt a massive buff still hasnt fixed our awful weapon sets but hey its buff it gives me hope that anet is not caving in to people crying on the forums and ruin the balance and i wont be replying to you anymore since there is no point id have a better conversation talking to one of my cats then you GL to you in the future and i really hope i run into you in WvW.

yes it is THE issue, but thieves benefit the most from it, having the ability to permastealth without losing much else to spec for it. It helps mesmers a little, thieves a lot. my point is that they need to fix culling to eliminate the huge, unearned advantage that thieves have in wvwvw. if not, then something else must change.

Mechanix.5719:

@OP In order to deal damage to you we have to hit you – hitting you from stealth gives us reveal debuff unless we wait for the stealth to fall off – in which case we’re not doing our big stealth openers on you.

This means you have time to react to our actions. If we re- stealth, either prepare to dodge or block the attack coming or get ready to drop a stun/daze/knock down/ knock back.

Read that above

With culling bugs you can get the same permastealth benefits and higher dps. that’s a balance issue. you can’t deny the facts. This gentleman shows them here, and the culling bug makes it even easier. I am sorry but facts are facts. How about the thief apologists trying to get the game balanced in the right way so that your class isn’t ruined vs. denying facts? I’d like to see the class balanced not ruined.

The guy shows how you can get perma stealth but without attacking, ATTACKING PUTS A 3SEC DEBUFF ON YOU K you cannot stealth with that debuff maybe your understand that culling does notlast for 3secs extra unless maybe your in a zerg if your in a zerg you have got alot more worries than a GC thief “I am sorry but facts are facts” idd they are so understand that what your saying is impossible and what im saying is right.

“How about the thief apologists trying to get the game balanced in the right way so that your class isn’t ruined vs. denying facts? I’d like to see the class balanced not ruined”. if anything it should be newbs like you that come and cry on forums that get classes heavily nerfed look at the Ia/smuggler from TOR and how the QQ ruined that class thats what gonna happen to the thief i put in too much effort on my thief to see it be ruined by players who wont go to the effort of reading up and bettering themselves instead come and cry and yet again you have ignored my previous post when you gonna reply to the things you have said and justify them instead of just spewing a bunch of random kitten everywhere like i said your just another L2P issue and guess what last patch the theif got a buff! it wasnt a massive buff still hasnt fixed our awful weapon sets but hey its buff it gives me hope that anet is not caving in to people crying on the forums and ruin the balance and i wont be replying to you anymore since there is no point id have a better conversation talking to one of my cats then you GL to you in the future and i really hope i run into you in WvW.[/quote]

keep ignoring the culling bug that gives you, in all practicality, perma stealth without speccing for it.

A good thief won’t die in wvw unless they suicide.

Ron.4920:

In every video game where invisibility is involved, the invisible player will have an unfair advantage.

Lets just imagine this hypothetical situation. You are pretty low on money at the moment, and you have to gamble to make ends meet. There is a gym right near where you live that has boxing matches on the weekends. There is a guy who sits at a table in the back room, you can place bets with him. You go up to place your very first bet, it is your last few dollars. You know nothing about either fighters at the moment, so you say to the bookie. Can you tell me about the fighters? The bookie says well one of the fighters is invisible. Which do you choose the visible fighter, or the invisible one?

People do not like being jumped by invisible players who are capable of burning down their health bars in less than 5 seconds even with 2k toughness and 20k hp. What is so horrible about those 5 seconds is it is possible to be stun locked the entire time, even with stun break/condition removal utilities. Invisibility has been a broken mechanic ever since some lazy developer said “hey I don’t have to actually make the sprites, I can just say this monster is invisible”.

If your solution to making ends meet is gambling, you need to seek some help with that.

Joking aside, this is a pretty silly argument. The biggest advantage thieves have is those few seconds where someone gets jumped and panics. They don’t use their abilities correctly, and they essentially stun themselves as they do so, then get mad about it. It happens in every game even when the stealthers are in bad shape, some idiot will still get owned, come to the forums and say “rabble rabble stun lock rabble stealth” and that is about as much sense as they make.

The complaints about culling need to be done in a thread about culling, not in a thread whining about stealthers cyber bullies always taking lunch money

YOu can’t separate culling from stealth because stealthers benefit the most from the culling problem.

what’s irrational about linking culling to stealth? stealth classes get the most advantages from stealth. I don’t understand your argument. Nice personal attack though.

Columba.9730:

what’s irrational about linking culling to stealth? stealth classes get the most advantages from stealth. I don’t understand your argument.

Let me slow it down for ya…

You are asking for stealth to be nerfed because of culling, not asking for culling to work more efficiently. If culling works more efficiently, then you wouldn’t have the issue with stealth that comes from culling.

The issue with culling isn’t only stealth related. You can run into a zerg and die before you even know that they are even there.

You are asking to nerf a profession main ability to survive. We don’t have access to utilities that grant us physical defense. We only have things that stealth us or help us be more mobile and gtfo town.

STOP ASKING FOR STEALTH TO GET NERFED WHEN THE ISSUE IS WITH CULLING.

Kurow, now this post will probably get locked as well.

Ron.4920:

Kurow, now this post will probably get locked as well.

Kurow’s right. Columba cannot understand that the problem that he has, is due to culling. Not stealth and calling on nerfing stealth because of it, is not balance.

Fix culling and people shouldn’t have an issue, though I surmise that they will still complain about thieves. It has been that way since before BWE1.

There are a lot of people that don’t know that thief used to have a longer stealth. Like 30 secs long, but that was removed and given a 3 sec stealth on our heal.

Archonis.7249:

Columba.9730:

what’s irrational about linking culling to stealth? stealth classes get the most advantages from stealth. I don’t understand your argument.

Let me slow it down for ya…

You are asking for stealth to be nerfed because of culling, not asking for culling to work more efficiently. If culling works more efficiently, then you wouldn’t have the issue with stealth that comes from culling.

The issue with culling isn’t only stealth related. You can run into a zerg and die before you even know that they are even there.

You are asking to nerf a profession main ability to survive. We don’t have access to utilities that grant us physical defense. We only have things that stealth us or help us be more mobile and gtfo town.

STOP ASKING FOR STEALTH TO GET NERFED WHEN THE ISSUE IS WITH CULLING.

so what should they do if and when they cannot fix culling? I understand exactly what you are saying but culling gives thieves a huge and unfair advantage in wvwvw. So what should they do if culling cannot be fixed? In the meantime, why can’t they adjust stealth just for wvwvw? they seem to have the ability to toggle some skills for wvwvw vs. pve. why not here?

We’ve been waiting for culling fixes since launch. zero progress. I wish they’d fix it too. It wouldn’t wreck the class. But they cant seem to fix it. How about prioritizing assassins not to cull at all?

@Columba

I just want to say that I am not professing paramount knowledge about the game and its mechanics. I am merely looking at the way you construct your stance about culling and thieves.

Your entire stance is based upon assumptions. Your latest post tells us that you want thieves nerfed because you believe the developers cannot fix the culling issue. This is simply baseless as it has no evidence to support your claims other than “the issue has been around for a while and nothing is being done about it, and because nothing is being done about it, devs cannot fix it.” If you can find me any posts by developers that say “yeah, we cannot fix it, sorry, deal with it” then please show me, and I will withdraw this argument.

Adjusting (and/or nerfing) stealth—the mechanic that defines thief as a class—due to a bug that is not class-specific is simply impractical. This does not fix the problem; in fact it just adds more (and unnecessary) problems. If you nerf stealth due to this culling issue, I believe thieves would be on a disadvantage. Their stats and mechanics got hit due to something that apparently gives them an unfair advantage, when other issues (Zerg rushes) pose a bigger concern (though I think you cannot -exactly- nerf Zerg rushes, heh). If you have any suggestions on how to adjust the mechanic without actually nerfing the class, then please tell us rather than saying this and that with nothing to support you.

I think the OP’s issue has already been covered by many other posters so I shall not reply to that. Though I’d like to say that you, OP, actually started the “deluge” of insults. Everyone was simply pointing out holes in your argument, then you simply dismiss it with “oh, it was a joke, whoops, sorry.” And then the “deluge” happened.

Please note that I am very new to this game and have not delved into the realm that is PvP yet. Though I have played games that also raises a few balance issues, so take whatever I say with a grain of salt.

Of course they haven’t said they cannot fix it, it they haven’t said they can, nor have they fixed it yet. If they can’t, what’s the next step? Wy can’t stealth be adjusted just within WvWvW?

rmBossa.4621:

This spec during its prime helped give rise to this now uber-villian “perma stealth thief” who is never seen but must be there lurking in the shadows because, y’know, you read about it on the forums…

-I see stealthed people(or don’t to be precise).Walking around like regular people.They don’t see each other.They only see,what they wanna see.They don’t know,they are stealthed.
-How often do you see them?
-Never.But i read about them in the forums ALL THE TIME.

Of course they haven’t said they cannot fix it, it they haven’t said they can, nor have they fixed it yet. If they can’t, what’s the next step?

Here we go again.

Like I said, if you have any suggestions on how to adjust the stealth mechanic without any adverse effects on the profession, then please, do suggest it. All we have heard from you is that you want stealth to be nerfed since a) you don’t believe they can’t fix it and b) thieves happen to receive the most benefit from this bug because of stealth abilities.

If they can’t, then they will attempt to balance it, obviously. Try not to be too pessimist.

Wy can’t stealth be adjusted just within WvWvW?

Because this would place the profession at a disadvantage. I’ve already said this before, and I’ll say it again: the bug is not class-specific. You cannot nerf a defining mechanic due to a bug that is global (i.e. it affects everyone). It won’t solve core problems and it does not level the balancing scale.

@columba

Just to keep it clear i’m not trying to be condescending in this post, I just like to write everything down to help myself and others understand what i’m getting at.

Culling is a serious issue and it annoys everyone. However, as thieves we do not gain any benefit from being culled other than being invisible for longer. We don’t gain access to stealth openers because other people can’t render us properly.

Thief survivabilty comes from stealth/ evades / dodge / blinds – evades, dodge and blind being the best way to completely avoid damage.

Stealth mitigates damage by making us untargetable and difficult to follow – however we recieve full damage whilst in stealth.

The majority of culling issues come from large scale fights with large amounts of AoE damage flying around. AoE damage will hurt a thief in stealth or under the effects of culling no matter what.

During a culling affected encounter, players tend to AoE areas where they believe the enemy to be, generally speaking this is either where everyone else is dealing damage/ wherever you can see white numbers pop up/ where the few rendered enemies are.

As a thief you want to avoid all that damage, you know that you deal a great deal of damage from stealth irrespective of traits and weapon set up – when you hit from stealth you get big damage. Add to the fact we get bonuses to alot of attacks for being behind or to the side of a player.

As a thief in a large scale fight where culling is taking place i personally do not go through the middle. I go around the side and hit people at the back that have likely rendered first because they are out of the larger pack.

This just so happens to often be the upscaled players – either on siege or standing out of the crowd for fear of being AoE’d down. It is also where i find alot of people escaping the large scale melee to heal up safely.

Now if you’re having issues with culling in this regard, whereby you are the player at the back you can group up with others looking to break away from combat for a few mins and cover one another. A thief is far less likely to attempt or get away with a sneak attack on a group of players and get a kill than they are taking out the loners at the back.

If the issue is in the middle of the zerg where everything is an AoE fest and everyone is pretty much benefiting/ suffering from culling issues – then i’m confused as to why thief stealth is the issue?

Reason i say that is that if the thief is slap bang in the middle of a zerg AoE fest in front of an enemy force they are either going to go down very quickly or be as effective as everyone else in the zerg.

Culling sucks – I honestly agree, but i don’t see Thieves stealth as being the greatest beneficiary or swaying the fight to such a degree that stealth needs to be “re-balanced” to deal with a rendering issue.

The major issues i see with culling are the AoE stealths, which we do have access to as thieves however anyone leaping through a smoke field or dropping a blast finisher in one will trigger stealth/ AoE stealth.

AoE stealth can be an issue – but when everyone is throwing out AoE damage you’re still going to hit something.

In which case the main issue for culling for me would be:

Medium to large groups of co-ordinated players utilising large quantities of AoE stealthing abilities to manipulate the culling bug and position themselves to wipe an enemy zerg.

In my opinion individual thieves are not at fault, benefit very little from culling in large scale fights and are countered by ensuring players stick together when away from the action to provide a less tempting target.

The big issue is culling – it needs a fix as it’s not fun – but thief mechanics shouldn’t be regulated and toned down because of it.

TL;DR

with the utmost respect – whilst culling is an issue i don’t see how in large scale fights it effects the outcome to the degree whereby an individual thief can make the difference in a zergfest.

AoE stealth by groups to abuse culling is another issue entirely. However Arena net are trying things out to find a way of minimising and removing culling. We’ve seen attempts so far, not all of them good, however they are making headway and will revert changes where needed.

altering stealth because a bug makes it a problem under certain situations shouldn’t happen.

the lack of CD and the very fast inittive regen allows stealth to be abused thats the problem not the stealth itself

some kind of penalty to stop em from going invis every 3-4 seconds will be fine
10 sec or something like that

or something with long cd for class w/e to reveal them

Batlav.6318:

the lack of CD and the very fast inittive regen allows stealth to be abused thats the problem not the stealth itself

some kind of penalty to stop em from going invis every 3-4 seconds will be fine
10 sec or something like that

or something with long cd for class w/e to reveal them

The lack of CD is the CORE CONCEPT of the thief. I’ll certainly accept the abuse of

stealth being limited IF the abuse of illusions & clones can have longer CD’S. When

engineers torrents have longer CD’s. When pets have longer CD’s when I gank them.

When bubbles have longer CD’s. Ill accept any idea brought to the table AS LONG IT

INVOLVES ALL PROFESSIONS….doesn’t seem like a bright idea now does it?

Hello,

There is already a dedicated thread to discuss about the thief gameplay here : The thief and its gameplay – Your feedback

Therefore this one is now closed.