Is Dual Pistols Ever Viable PvE?

Is Dual Pistols Ever Viable PvE?

in Thief

Posted by: Starbird.4029

Starbird.4029

Q:

Right now me being a thief or not being a thief sort of depends on this. I tried it at low levels and hated having to tab target just to tag and having to run away from anything that looked remotely threatening.

Some people have told me it gets better later and that it gets some sort of AOE. Others have told me to stay clear and just go SB (which is okay…but clunky as hell).

Any thoughts?

Is Dual Pistols Ever Viable PvE?

in Thief

Posted by: mompen.7952

mompen.7952

SB is one of our best mobility weapons, so get used to it ^^ Doesn’t feel clunky for me at all. AA is nice, bounces and does OK damage, you got the games fastest blast finisher, AOE poison and AOE weakness if you blast in the poison field.
Yeah!

As for P/P I can’t really provide any help as I rarely play it. But someone else might help ya

Kenny Shayde/Ken Shadowpaw-Theef|Spiteful Sithis-Necro|Kennyneer-Engi|Mr Hex Appeal-Mesmer

Is Dual Pistols Ever Viable PvE?

in Thief

Posted by: winterchillz.2564

winterchillz.2564

No.

Sword main hand and pistol off-hand will let you deal with 99% of the mobs in GW though. Just spam 5 every couple of seconds you have permanent blind on the enemy.

Cloud of Sparrows
Fluffiest Blood Legion Charr
“At least I die knowing my sisters are free”

Is Dual Pistols Ever Viable PvE?

in Thief

Posted by: Starbird.4029

Starbird.4029

No.

Sword main hand and pistol off-hand will let you deal with 99% of the mobs in GW though. Just spam 5 every couple of seconds you have permanent blind on the enemy.

Blah. S/P is effective but just looks so…silly. P/P looks fantastic but yeah, apparently is horrible.

Ah well, no thief for me I guess.

Is Dual Pistols Ever Viable PvE?

in Thief

Posted by: mompen.7952

mompen.7952

Engineer P/P works, but that’s a condi set tho.
Seems like they are reworking condi stacks for HoT, (increasing bleed stacks, at least for PvE) so maybe condi will be more viable for PvE.

Kenny Shayde/Ken Shadowpaw-Theef|Spiteful Sithis-Necro|Kennyneer-Engi|Mr Hex Appeal-Mesmer

Is Dual Pistols Ever Viable PvE?

in Thief

Posted by: winterchillz.2564

winterchillz.2564

No.

Sword main hand and pistol off-hand will let you deal with 99% of the mobs in GW though. Just spam 5 every couple of seconds you have permanent blind on the enemy.

Blah. S/P is effective but just looks so…silly. P/P looks fantastic but yeah, apparently is horrible.

Ah well, no thief for me I guess.

Just get some good skins for it and you’ll love it :p

Cloud of Sparrows
Fluffiest Blood Legion Charr
“At least I die knowing my sisters are free”

Is Dual Pistols Ever Viable PvE?

in Thief

Posted by: Bloodgruve.6038

Bloodgruve.6038

I did some extensive dps testing a while back. P/P did quite poorly unfortunatly :/ Learn to love Shortbow, it really does have a great toolbox but it’s damage is worse then P/P so you’ll want S/P, S/D, D/D or even D/P to do damage. D/D and S/D had quite good numbers IIRC.

I’ve heard P/P is doable in WvW n PvP but that’s second hand.

I’d love it if ANET gave us a decent P/P buff.

“Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance”

Is Dual Pistols Ever Viable PvE?

in Thief

Posted by: Shadowstarkirby.4072

Shadowstarkirby.4072

P/P shines in just a few niche situations in pug groups.

SE P3 while fighting the dredge carrier where you need the extra range only obtainable with the ricochet trait to be able to damage it on the ledge.

Volcanic Fractal for body shot immobilizes to stop grawl from reaching villagers. Also very much acceptable for fighting both Grawl Shaman and Imbued.

Dredge Fractal for body shot immobilizes to stop Legendary Ice Elemental/Dredge Suit under the fire pots. Another fight where the DPS is accepted fighting either of the two.

P1 Arah for body shot immobilizes to stop Legendary Tar Elemental from fleeing from the stack. This one is a bit of a stretch though cause usually everyone else in the party has immobilizes for this.

Besides maybe using P/P for fighting some difficult Fractal bosses in unorganized pugs, it’s definitely not a good idea to main P/P, it’s far too weak compared to Shortbow.

I will say that P/P traited with Ricochet and Initiative regen makes it pretty lethal in WvW zergs, however you give up the strong utilities of Shortbow for it, making you considerably more vulnerable if you’re caught outside the blob.

(edited by Shadowstarkirby.4072)

Is Dual Pistols Ever Viable PvE?

in Thief

Posted by: Starbird.4029

Starbird.4029

D/D. Is D/D decent for leveling? As in I won’t constantly be dying to anything more than 1-2 regular mobs?

Is Dual Pistols Ever Viable PvE?

in Thief

Posted by: Azure The Heartless.3261

Azure The Heartless.3261

P/P is extremely viable in pve, I dont know why people are saying it isnt.

Yes, you do have to tab target at early levels if you want to hit something in particular (and for those areas it might be better to use something with cleave like dagger or sword)

But eventually this becomes an option: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ricochet_%28trait%29

And with a high crit build it works very well at clearing groups of mobs with unload.

You -will- need to kite though. using p/p will take some judgement and you will need to slot a melee weapon for emergencies.

D/D. Is D/D decent for leveling? As in I won’t constantly be dying to anything more than 1-2 regular mobs?

I’d recommend S/D since D/D lacks mobility, or P/D for the on-demand retreat skill.

Resident Disgruntled, Coffee-drinking Charr.
Zarin Mistcloak(THF) Valkyrie Mistblade(WAR) Kossori Mistwalker(REV) Durendal Mistward(GRD)
I used to think (build op, pls nerf) like you, but then I took a nerf to the knee.

Is Dual Pistols Ever Viable PvE?

in Thief

Posted by: crouze.3078

crouze.3078

p/p has only a little more damage / initiative then shortbow.

Unload: projectile finisher
Cluster Bomb: blast finisher

and blasting all the fields in combat like fire fields for might, poison for weakness, water for heal, makes the shortbow so much better then p/p

Is Dual Pistols Ever Viable PvE?

in Thief

Posted by: Shadowstarkirby.4072

Shadowstarkirby.4072

D/D. Is D/D decent for leveling? As in I won’t constantly be dying to anything more than 1-2 regular mobs?

I wouldn’t really use D/D in open world because blinds from pistol just trivializes too much to just pass up. The single target DPS the best of any class, but that’s just about all you can do, and if you don’t DPS fast and fail to dodge, you’ll be downed easily. It also fails to cleave 3 targets like a sword does. Between best sets to use in open world, I’d stick with S/P or D/P, S/P for mob killing and D/P mobility and single target DPS. But if you like S/D, no problem going with that either, you’ll just need to rely on stealth and dodges more like D/D.

P/P is extremely viable in pve, I dont know why people are saying it isnt.

Yes, you do have to tab target at early levels if you want to hit something in particular (and for those areas it might be better to use something with cleave like dagger or sword)

But eventually this becomes an option: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ricochet_%28trait%29

And with a high crit build it works very well at clearing groups of mobs with unload.

You -will- need to kite though. using p/p will take some judgement and you will need to slot a melee weapon for emergencies.

D/D. Is D/D decent for leveling? As in I won’t constantly be dying to anything more than 1-2 regular mobs?

I’d recommend S/D since D/D lacks mobility, or P/D for the on-demand retreat skill.

P/P is just as viable as Warrior’s rifle. Thieves are basically in the same boat as them, in which having gun sets that offer more raw damage than bows, but lack the superior utility the bows have. If you absolutely need range DPS, then P/P is the way to go, but there isn’t many situations that force you into needing it to be honest, S/P just kills everything effortlessly that isn’t dredge or uses long lasting AoEs. Giving up 1 trait point, usually your 10% damage boost one in DA, for something that Shortbow has naturally with Trickshot just seems silly outside of WvW bag tagging.

(edited by Shadowstarkirby.4072)

Is Dual Pistols Ever Viable PvE?

in Thief

Posted by: Doggie.3184

Doggie.3184

PP is better for pure damage than SB~ when traited properly it does pretty heavy damage~ it’s like a ranged Pistol Whip. The difference is Vital Shot and Body Shot are still awful skills and PP is garbage utility-wise so you go full ini to use Unload forever and you will outDPS melee in a pretty sustained manner. Maybe one day ina few years we’ll have a #2 skill that gives good synergy and an auto attack that isn’t so bad you have to replace it entirely with your dual attack.

| Fort Aspenwood (NA): Sylvari Daredevil Thief Main: All Classes 80. |
Please Remove/Fix Thief Trait: “Last Refuge.”
“Hard to Catch” is a Horrible and Useless Trait. Fixed 6/23/15. Praise Dwayna.

(edited by Doggie.3184)

Is Dual Pistols Ever Viable PvE?

in Thief

Posted by: BBMouse.6510

BBMouse.6510

I have been trying a main D/P swap hand P/P in pug dungeons lately. It is very fun. :P

trait
0 6 0 4 4 – invigorating precision (15% life leech), practiced tolerance (to get ur hp around 15k with full zerker set), side strike (will have >100% crit with fury and without any food buf), power of inertia, quick recovery, thrill of crime, and ricochet

utility
full signet (never need to use them actually XD passive works well), swap to stealth in some situation. I use hide in shadows for heal. ellite whatever u like.

I never know if it’s the high dps but if 100 B can get to 20k (I have not played war for some time so might be different) i have seen unload do 12k-14k (don’t forget it’s aoe with ricochet). If you get 25 might stack from party you will do even more (you yourself can generate 5+ might stack).

With 15 initiative and many ways to get initiative in this build, u can almost constant unload or heartseeker 247 XD. Don’t worry about condition removal. All you do is keep attacking and leech back life.

you will have constant shiftness with the thrill of crime + constant dodges.

The only catch is people’s expaction in this game. They expect thief to use SB blaster, stealth, solo something, pistal stun something, etc. People will always complain if u don’t play thief meta. Or any other class same issue. There are many viable and fun builds for every class, might not be the highest dps but good enough dps and fun. So give it a try and you might like it.

Is Dual Pistols Ever Viable PvE?

in Thief

Posted by: Gamblit.5041

Gamblit.5041

Right now me being a thief or not being a thief sort of depends on this. I tried it at low levels and hated having to tab target just to tag and having to run away from anything that looked remotely threatening.

Some people have told me it gets better later and that it gets some sort of AOE. Others have told me to stay clear and just go SB (which is okay…but clunky as hell).

Any thoughts?

Gw2 Content doesn’t require you to top DPS charts, or have 100% Dodge.
It’s a game where you play what you like. If you like the look of Dual Pistols then go for it, it’s fun.

Is Dual Pistols Ever Viable PvE?

in Thief

Posted by: Molch.2078

Molch.2078

If P/P is the only reason you want to play a thief, then don’t do it. You’ll be dissapointed. It works, yes, but it’s far from good.

But if you like thieves in general and just want to use your pistols once in a while, go for it. It looks cool, and when things get serious, you still can swap to a weponset that gets the job done. Swapping traits doesnt cost a thing

Is Dual Pistols Ever Viable PvE?

in Thief

Posted by: Bloodgruve.6038

Bloodgruve.6038

PP is better for pure damage than SB~ when traited properly it does pretty heavy damage~ it’s like a ranged Pistol Whip. The difference is Vital Shot and Body Shot are still awful skills and PP is garbage utility-wise so you go full ini to use Unload forever and you will outDPS melee in a pretty sustained manner.

Did they buff P/P within the last 6 months? Last tests I ran had P/P at about 75% ‘dps’ of what S/P did. It performed worse then most other equally optimized ‘melee’ builds, not only vs. thief but other classes as well. What trait build did you use? Do you have comparable numbers and how did you get them? I’d like to run my tests again, it’s been a while.

Blood~

“Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance”

Is Dual Pistols Ever Viable PvE?

in Thief

Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

Spamming unload with actual trait investment will do fairly well in terms of DPS numbers. Only D/D and S/P can beat it as long as you don’t waste your time on ricochet or trait into SA :P

Is Dual Pistols Ever Viable PvE?

in Thief

Posted by: Barzah.8019

Barzah.8019

“If you can’t master one weapon, try using the other one” This is Guild Wars 2, your are not bound to 1 build and 1 weapon type. Pick the one that you like the most and master it’s movement set and trick, most likely you will do fine in every content with it.

Im using 0 6 4 4 for PVE (It is hard for you to get downed with healing signet) and 0 4 4 6 for PvP (Your inniative regenerate at incredibly fast rate).

The word “constant” is the main trait on P/P build with initiative build. You will not do incredibly large damage with this weapon, but you are able to keep hitting your target while dodging their attack.

Also, just slap rune of air and flame for extra damage.

(edited by Barzah.8019)

Is Dual Pistols Ever Viable PvE?

in Thief

Posted by: Nutjob.9021

Nutjob.9021

Dual pistols with unload skill (#3) is the highest single target ranged damage for a thief. I use it on the Fire Elemental because if I used melee with my build I would die and if I use short bow for ranged the arrows would bounce around and I would also aggro those fire tornado things that knock me down with one shot.

I might also consider using this against a very mobile single opponent in PvP or WvW, that is if they were constantly getting outside of my melee range somehow or if melee was too dangerous (due to them standing in the middle of a booby trapped area for example).

Is Dual Pistols Ever Viable PvE?

in Thief

Posted by: babazhook.6805

babazhook.6805

Contrary to claims being made here P/p is capable of pumping out great damage.

Remember it is at range, can be spammed and can be streamed continously unlike a backstab which requires several seconds to set up. You can do 3 unloads in the time it takes to setup one backstab.

In PVE each of my 8 unloads is capable of 900+ damage if traited for IP and more if traited for executioner. This is for each and every shot. Add in an on proc sigil like air and you are pushing 9k in damage which can be followed up with as many three more in rapid succession this on a single target. (7k plus unload 1.5k air proc)

In WvW with guard stacks and against squishies I have had unload streams higher then that.

The difference of course is other weapon sets AA. While the damage output from unload is comparable and higher to other sets weapons in the DUAL poistion for INI spent p/p loses out on the AA. That said it IS still at range.

Is Dual Pistols Ever Viable PvE?

in Thief

Posted by: Bloodgruve.6038

Bloodgruve.6038

Spamming unload with actual trait investment will do fairly well in terms of DPS numbers. Only D/D and S/P can beat it as long as you don’t waste your time on ricochet or trait into SA :P

I did some testing last night. Best I could get with P/P was about ~80% ‘dps’ of what S/P could do. Both tested with 5/6/0/0/3 with traits optimized for each loadout. With ricochet it dropped to ~75%. S/D n D/Dwill beat it too, don’t have numbers on D/P or P/D.

That being said P/P isn’t much lower then some other classes average ‘dps’ but you almost exclusively hit Unload and Auto for average single target ‘dps’ which seems a bit lacking. It’s a viable and fun build but other weapons bring more utility and dps to the table. This is all from a PvE prospective too so take it for what it’s worth. Also I was looking at sustained damage. If you unload on Unload it obviously puts out decent damage in a short time.

“Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance”

(edited by Bloodgruve.6038)

Is Dual Pistols Ever Viable PvE?

in Thief

Posted by: Scootabuser.4915

Scootabuser.4915

First of all, if your running P/P, you still get more dps out of a 6/6/x/x/x build, initiative regain for more unloads is NOT more dps then the massive bonuses and base stats you get from the other trees.

At level 80, full ascended berzerker, no group buffs, all 3 sigils
For a Unload-Vital-Unload-Vital-Vital rotation, P/P comes out to 2636 DPS
For Shortbow, ClusterBomb-Trickshot rotation takes you up to 2785 DPS

S/P
Pistol Whip (Sword/Pistol)-Slice-Slash-Pistol Whip (Sword/Pistol)-Sword #1
3712 DPS

D/D
Cloak and Dagger-Backstab (Back)-Dagger #1
4718 DPS

Haters are going to say “well I can spam unload and do more burst damage” but they fail to realize that spamming Unload would only net you 3413 DPS for about 6 seconds. Spamming Clusterbomb at short range with detonate cluster will net you 4228 DPS for 5 seconds

So you see, shortbow does more AoE dps (since trickshot is only counted as hitting once in my calculations it actually has even more dps when hitting 2+ targets) and it does more single target dps. P/P sucks in sPvP, it sucks in PvE, and WvW its pretty bad compared to the shortbow.

If you check out the dulfy guide, 90% of the build applies to P/P there is so much misinformation in this forum post its rediculous

Here is a super detailed DPS calculator if you want to play with it:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2NvvpUsVBdgN3NmVUl4Y1hxRjQ/view?usp=sharing

Insert Personal Achievements and/or Youtube Channel Here

(edited by Scootabuser.4915)

Is Dual Pistols Ever Viable PvE?

in Thief

Posted by: Scootabuser.4915

Scootabuser.4915

I did some testing last night. Best I could get with P/P was about ~80% ‘dps’ of what S/P could do.

Closer to 71%

Insert Personal Achievements and/or Youtube Channel Here

Is Dual Pistols Ever Viable PvE?

in Thief

Posted by: Scootabuser.4915

Scootabuser.4915

Spamming unload with actual trait investment will do fairly well in terms of DPS numbers. Only D/D and S/P can beat it as long as you don’t waste your time on ricochet or trait into SA :P

By trait investment if you mean initiative, your actually wrong, traiting for damage will give P/P better damage then traiting for initiative.

And your wrong about how much DPS it does, Shortbow still does more dps against single targets.

Insert Personal Achievements and/or Youtube Channel Here

Is Dual Pistols Ever Viable PvE?

in Thief

Posted by: Scootabuser.4915

Scootabuser.4915

Dual pistols with unload skill (#3) is the highest single target ranged damage for a thief.

If you mean burst damage yes, technically to spam detonation on the shortbow you have to be at close range so unload is the ONLY ranged burst damage the thief has.

If your talking about rotations using unload/vitalshot then shortbow still does more DPS.

Insert Personal Achievements and/or Youtube Channel Here

Is Dual Pistols Ever Viable PvE?

in Thief

Posted by: Scootabuser.4915

Scootabuser.4915

Right now me being a thief or not being a thief sort of depends on this. I tried it at low levels and hated having to tab target just to tag and having to run away from anything that looked remotely threatening.

Some people have told me it gets better later and that it gets some sort of AOE. Others have told me to stay clear and just go SB (which is okay…but clunky as hell).

Any thoughts?

Gw2 Content doesn’t require you to top DPS charts, or have 100% Dodge.
It’s a game where you play what you like. If you like the look of Dual Pistols then go for it, it’s fun.

Just expect to get kicked out of a lot of dungeon groups if you pug.

Insert Personal Achievements and/or Youtube Channel Here

Is Dual Pistols Ever Viable PvE?

in Thief

Posted by: Butch.4957

Butch.4957

It all depends on how you use em. I am currently running D/D and P/P in silverwastes because of the immob. for the kitten charging teragriffs. I immob. them before they start running so I can spam their health down quickly. I mostly use D/D but pistol is useful in certain situations. Just a matter of trial and error. (I also carry all weapons needed to have all weapon sets so i will be prepared for any circumstance.)

Is Dual Pistols Ever Viable PvE?

in Thief

Posted by: Barzah.8019

Barzah.8019

Just expect to get kicked out of a lot of dungeon groups if you pug.

Nah…only Elitist kick people without specific build and trait, and there aren’t many of them lately.

Easy way to spot elitist:
-Complain 24/7 if someone not using “DPS” weapon
-Bragging about everyone DPS every second
-They play like a bot and rage if someone doesn’t follow their step
-Most likely they rage quit after 1-2 times wipe

Is Dual Pistols Ever Viable PvE?

in Thief

Posted by: NinjaEd.3946

NinjaEd.3946

Well in the instance of ranged dps, yes p/p is great in pve for that. However you get far more utility and still moderate damage just for having sb, which is a great get out of jail free card whether you’re knocked far into an environmental DoT or immobilized and need to evade.

P/p can be played in pve with good results but that’s as far as the trail goes for it. Anything else and honestly p/d does a better job for power.

P.S. ricochet is your friend ^^

“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”

Is Dual Pistols Ever Viable PvE?

in Thief

Posted by: Bloodgruve.6038

Bloodgruve.6038

I did some testing last night. Best I could get with P/P was about ~80% ‘dps’ of what S/P could do.

Closer to 71%

How do you calculate/determine your dps values?

“Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance”