Guild Wars 2

To answer the OP: Mesmer clones and phantasms are external damage sources, just like Thieves guild, and therefore will not reveal the Mesmer. If external dps sources revealed you it would make stealth completely redundant for Mesmers and Thieves guild would screw Thieves over big time.

As for Throw Gunk, I suppose that technically it’s an AoE damage source coming from you and not an external source, which is probably why it reveals a Thief. There are lots of discrepancies with this sort of thing though, so it’s hard to be definitive.

Travlane.5948:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Travlane.5948:

baylock.1703:

to be fair mesmer has had nerfs patch after patch also and thiefs has alot better dps from mesmers espessaly PU mesmers who usealy have around 2,6k to 2,7k armor (it might be reason why your backstab hits so low) and abouth protection you can just run sword/dagger and rip boons I cant understand what the debate is abouth you compeare bunker build of one class to burst build of another? and let me clear f1 and f2 shatters reveal mesmers so does all aoe skills smart mesmer can stay in stealth for max 14 seconds straight after what they need to w8 for 10 seconds to go in again for 4 seconds than 12 seconds untill you can pop decoy again than another 12 seconds for next 4 seconds so basicly around 25% stealth during battle yea if you kill PU mesmer clones than L2p beacos it will hurt…

general tip stop attacking mesmer clones and you can fight PU mesmers

see its comments like that …that make me laugh. nobody knows what dps is. mesmers have higher dps than thieves…. why you ask ? lol ok …..lets define DPS. D is for damage….. P is for per…..S is for second. DAMAGE PER SECOND. how do we formulate DPS? its damage divided by total number of seconds. now when thieves enter stealth and evade we arent doing any dmg. and we do alot of evades and alot of stealth (both slightly more than a mesmer) …. on the other hand mesmer is doing dmg and conditions the whole time and has the same burst capability as a thief or close enough not to call it a noticeable difference(depending on build). so the entire time a thief is rolling around or walking around invis just so he can get his good hit….hes not doing dmg…which lowers his DPS…. now if he gets a 5k backstab in 10 seconds….thats 500 dmg per second. now the mesmer is constantly attacking for 1400 here 1700 there and every other second or so…. which is still alot higher than thief…bc hes able to do the dmg while in stealth and while evading…..

But does constant dps even matter? My thief has 10k+ dps, but only for 2 seconds. He can also perma stealth. That’s often all I need.

In short, patient thieves can wreck PU mesmers. Those that go all in and spam skills, however, will have much more trouble.

Exactly this.

so your thief does 20k dmg in 2 seconds?

This build has been here since betas, do you really need to ask?

30/30/10/0/0, d/d, d/p, scholar runes, sweet and spicy butternut squash soup, toxic sharpening stones, sigil of force. Air sigil is optional.

It isn’t uncommon to see mug 2k, c&d7k, sigil of air 2k, bs 10k+ with this build. Go ahead and try yourself. Light armor glass cannons are hit for around 15kbs.

Any Mesmer using this PU build and Shattering is doing it wrong. This is not a shatter build so quit talking about shatters.

The PU build is weak to:

1. Condition removal
2. Lack of CC
3. Weaker against multiple targets or opponents that have pets/minions (ironically, a shatter / phantasm mesmer can be tough to beat with this build)
4. Swiftness (unless using a Traveler’s Rune version)

Simonoly.4352:

To answer the OP: Mesmer clones and phantasms are external damage sources, just like Thieves guild, and therefore will not reveal the Mesmer. If external dps sources revealed you it would make stealth completely redundant for Mesmers and Thieves guild would screw Thieves over big time.

As for Throw Gunk, I suppose that technically it’s an AoE damage source coming from you and not an external source, which is probably why it reveals a Thief. There are lots of discrepancies with this sort of thing though, so it’s hard to be definitive.

so is null field? and so are thieves guild…. but they act differently? better for mesmer and worse for thief? why ?

Travlane.5948:

Simonoly.4352:

To answer the OP: Mesmer clones and phantasms are external damage sources, just like Thieves guild, and therefore will not reveal the Mesmer. If external dps sources revealed you it would make stealth completely redundant for Mesmers and Thieves guild would screw Thieves over big time.

As for Throw Gunk, I suppose that technically it’s an AoE damage source coming from you and not an external source, which is probably why it reveals a Thief. There are lots of discrepancies with this sort of thing though, so it’s hard to be definitive.

so is null field? and so are thieves guild…. but they act differently? better for mesmer and worse for thief? why ?

How about you at least play mesmer before trolling? Null field deals zero damage and simply removes boons from foes and conditions from allies. 0/10.

The problem is thief stealth is spammable..whereas Mesmers have these things called cooldowns. I can’t tell you how many times in WvW supply trains are completely negated by a single thief for hours, even with a group of people defending.

“Oh just immoblize”…GREAT IDEA!! oh wait…wut? shadowstep?

No other class can do that. Yes a Mesmer can stealth for a significant amount of a duel. Duels are fast…Mesmer cooldowns are not.

Reikou.7068:

Some players suggested that for a thief to kill the PU mesmer, all the thief needs to do is range and kite. And while this is true, the difference is that in the thief vs PU mesmer matchup, the the thief has to constantly play defensive, with no opportunity to play offensive while the mesmer can just keep pressure throughout the fight without having to play defensive at all.

The reason for this is the mesmer trait Chaos V: Debilitating Dissipation combined with Dueling X: Deceptive Evasion. Anytime the Thief attempts to play offensive, all the mesmer has to do is dodge, which:
1. Creates a clone and 2. “kills”/destroys a clone thus dealing AoE damage and spreading conditions, both an offensive and defensive move at once.

This means that the thief can never really ever be in melee range of the mesmer, and the mesmer can just keep pressuring the thief.

I’d like to comment your post since you appear a bit more open to facts and suggestions than other people around here. I assume we are talking about a BW build with Staff/Sc+Tor.

I think you got that range thing wrong. You do not necessarily keep a distance. It is more important to counter the Mesmers Phantasms and stealth (e.g. by stealthing yourself, too) and not to hit him when he channels Sc#2. This will result in the Mesmer wasting all his utilities without dealing any remarkable damage. Burst him down when he runs out of stealth. You just have to be patient.

Debilitating Dissipation only procs from clones. Therefore, it also is safe to kill Phantasms. There is no direct area damage. Only a random (33%) chance for 3 stacks of bleeding. Dodging with DE will only make the old clone explode not the new one appearing next to the Mesmer. Since Staff and Scepter clones attack from range it is quite easy to avoid this explosion. You will be safe in close combat as long as you keep this in mind and don’t approach the clones. Btw: Making a Staff clone explode might actually be bad for the Mesmer because they apply conditions.

And before anyone comes up with a new horrow story: No… Debilitating Dissipation does not proc from Shatters. None of the on-death traits does.

Mek.2947:

The problem is thief stealth is spammable..whereas Mesmers have these things called cooldowns. I can’t tell you how many times in WvW supply trains are completely negated by a single thief for hours, even with a group of people defending.

“Oh just immoblize”…GREAT IDEA!! oh wait…wut? shadowstep?

No other class can do that. Yes a Mesmer can stealth for a significant amount of a duel. Duels are fast…Mesmer cooldowns are not.

Shadowsteps, while darned efficient, are not infinite. Multiple of them are utilities, and subject to C/Ds. The ones that aren’t, are limited by Initiative. As for spammability, do realize that the dreaded “perma-stealth” build is about to get hosed something fierce, next week.