Guild Wars 2

ok, the reason i post this is. theres literally no way to kill these people 1 on 1.

i’ve used stealth trap. they warped out of range

i’ve tried to maximize dmg to them the 3 secounds they visible. they dissapeared in 1 secound(i thought we FIXED the render issue)

seriously….this is getting annoying.

i cant even immobilize them because they lose conditions when stealthed, so just walk out of my vines.

can we plz remove the horribly long time it takes to put down a stealth trap?
that alone would go a long way to fix this problem…..without kitten ing thief in pve or sPvP

wich proffession r u playing

and there is a reason why thieves r one of best, if not best wvw roamers.

every proffession has strong and weak points.

Wyrden.4713:

wich proffession r u playing

and there is a reason why thieves r one of best, if not best wvw roamers.

every proffession has strong and weak points.

How many weak point thief profession have vs other profession?
How many strong point thief profession have vs other profession?

Hint; Thief profession is not only best roamer vs other profession,,,,,,

I lol everytime I see these posts, bottom line, learn how to fight a thief before you complain about their CLASS MECHANIC. Wanna know how to fight a thief? kitten them off mentally, just walk away from wherever they stealth and if they attack you AoE/burst them and if they run away let them! Eventually their patience will run thin and they will go HAM to try and kill you without dying which is when you open up a can of whoopass and drop them OR…..they say the heck with it, and go find another victim to toy with PROBLEM SOLVED.

Judging from your sentence about them escaping immobilize and vines, I’m guessing you’re a ranger. Ranger is probably best equipped to handle thieves out of most classes, but it means specializing and making some choices you might not normally make to seal the deal. First of all, you need very good control of your pet. If you’re pet is just standing far away from you while the thief is stealthed, its just a free CnD target. If your pet is close to you however, you force the thief to stay close as well. You have very good anti stealth skills at your disposal as well.

Wolf’s Fear Howl can be used near a Shadow Refuge to fear them out of it, giving them reveal and putting their main reset skill on cd. Rapid Fire tracks thieves through stealth so long as you initiate the attack before they disappear. This means not only can you keep damaging them, you can get a rough idea of where they’re headed. Also on the long bow is Barrage. AoE cripple can mean the difference between getting backstabbed or forcing a retreat. Lastly, there’s Sic’ Em. 6 seconds of reveal plus increased damage and speed on your pet is plenty of time to land a burst and finish the job.

Aside from that, it helps to think of a retreat as a victory. If they run away to reset, you’ve effectively won and forced them to stop. Stealth is a delicately balanced skill, making it too strong or last too long could destroy WvW and PvP, making it too weak could effectively hamstring a majority of thief builds unless it is replaced with an actual form of damage mitigation.

Eh.

Shadow’s Rejuvenation should be removed

Shadow’s Embrace should be master or grandmaster

Cloaked in Shadow should be master

Last Refuge should be removed.

If you remove shadow’s rejuvenation you basically ruin any thief’s usage of stealth in wvw.
In case the point wasn’t clear, it’s an awful idea. Shadow’s embrace is fine, cloaked in shadow is fine. Last refuge should be removed.

You don’t need Shadow Rejuvenation when running D/P, minimum is 2 in SA for Shadow’s Embrace – the rest is just an added bonus IMO.

I do think Shadow Rejuvenation makes sitting in Stealth too beneficial and promotes a more passive way to play, which you can’t do in pvp at least.

Anything beyond SE is a crutch and is why the professon has been nerfed countless times as compensation. SE alone is basic class functionality not accessible anywhere else. Simply, the SA line itself has way too many overly-strong abilities which the thief as a profession lacks elsewhere in entirety. The last time I played SA, it took fourteen people to kill me because of how much the traits carried me, versus after immediately reverting back, it took two from the same group.

As far as fighting stealth builds goes, it’s pretty much just learning common patterns and timing on the thief’s skills/when most people use them, and bursting them down from 100-0 while they end up revealed. Rejuv is so stupidly overpowered that most attrition tactics/defensive tactics that work against pretty much all of the other builds fails, and playing aggressively often just burns cooldowns for no real reason/rejuv carries them out of being hit while stealthed unless bursted. Aside from hard CC effects that can deny SR or other abilities, there’s not really much out there in regards to countermeasures from SA stealth.

DeceiverX.8361:

Anything beyond SE is a crutch and is why the professon has been nerfed countless times as compensation. SE alone is basic class functionality not accessible anywhere else. Simply, the SA line itself has way too many overly-strong abilities which the thief as a profession lacks elsewhere in entirety. The last time I played SA, it took fourteen people to kill me because of how much the traits carried me, versus after immediately reverting back, it took two from the same group.

As far as fighting stealth builds goes, it’s pretty much just learning common patterns and timing on the thief’s skills/when most people use them, and bursting them down from 100-0 while they end up revealed. Rejuv is so stupidly overpowered that most attrition tactics/defensive tactics that work against pretty much all of the other builds fails, and playing aggressively often just burns cooldowns for no real reason/rejuv carries them out of being hit while stealthed unless bursted. Aside from hard CC effects that can deny SR or other abilities, there’s not really much out there in regards to countermeasures from SA stealth.

Sorry, but I need SA to stay alive with my D/D build – it might be “OP” for D/P which I haven’t played in a long while but taking that away would kill my D/D thief.
But since the game is unplayable for me again thanks to positioning bugs and lags my thief is pretty much dead anyway. Hey, even noob rangers/warriors and everybody else can kill me because the one thing I really need as a (D/D) thief (precision) has been taken away.

Are you using the noob kitten power ranger build or the condi cheese trapper? Which one is it?

Jana.6831:

DeceiverX.8361:

Anything beyond SE is a crutch and is why the professon has been nerfed countless times as compensation. SE alone is basic class functionality not accessible anywhere else. Simply, the SA line itself has way too many overly-strong abilities which the thief as a profession lacks elsewhere in entirety. The last time I played SA, it took fourteen people to kill me because of how much the traits carried me, versus after immediately reverting back, it took two from the same group.

As far as fighting stealth builds goes, it’s pretty much just learning common patterns and timing on the thief’s skills/when most people use them, and bursting them down from 100-0 while they end up revealed. Rejuv is so stupidly overpowered that most attrition tactics/defensive tactics that work against pretty much all of the other builds fails, and playing aggressively often just burns cooldowns for no real reason/rejuv carries them out of being hit while stealthed unless bursted. Aside from hard CC effects that can deny SR or other abilities, there’s not really much out there in regards to countermeasures from SA stealth.

Sorry, but I need SA to stay alive with my D/D build – it might be “OP” for D/P which I haven’t played in a long while but taking that away would kill my D/D thief.
But since the game is unplayable for me again thanks to positioning bugs and lags my thief is pretty much dead anyway. Hey, even noob rangers/warriors and everybody else can kill me because the one thing I really need as a (D/D) thief (precision) has been taken away.

I play D/D exclusively and have few issues without SA aside from really big condition overload scenarios. I used to use it when I first started playing the game, but have since moved on and am happy I have; that kind of dependence ultimately hindered my growth as a thief substantially, and I’ve found that most thieves using it are just plain annoying to fight more than anything. Playing without SA improves one’s skill level immensely and frankly, some of its capabilities should be defaulted on the thief in weaker forms better-dispersed with some of the extremely forgiving abilities like rejuv just not available seeing as stealth already fulfills a huge purpose of damage avoidance. The server lag in WvW has been an issue lately, as I was finding even mobs rubber-banding, but since this past reset Friday I haven’t had any issues.

DeceiverX.8361:

Jana.6831:

DeceiverX.8361:

Anything beyond SE is a crutch and is why the professon has been nerfed countless times as compensation. SE alone is basic class functionality not accessible anywhere else. Simply, the SA line itself has way too many overly-strong abilities which the thief as a profession lacks elsewhere in entirety. The last time I played SA, it took fourteen people to kill me because of how much the traits carried me, versus after immediately reverting back, it took two from the same group.

As far as fighting stealth builds goes, it’s pretty much just learning common patterns and timing on the thief’s skills/when most people use them, and bursting them down from 100-0 while they end up revealed. Rejuv is so stupidly overpowered that most attrition tactics/defensive tactics that work against pretty much all of the other builds fails, and playing aggressively often just burns cooldowns for no real reason/rejuv carries them out of being hit while stealthed unless bursted. Aside from hard CC effects that can deny SR or other abilities, there’s not really much out there in regards to countermeasures from SA stealth.

Sorry, but I need SA to stay alive with my D/D build – it might be “OP” for D/P which I haven’t played in a long while but taking that away would kill my D/D thief.
But since the game is unplayable for me again thanks to positioning bugs and lags my thief is pretty much dead anyway. Hey, even noob rangers/warriors and everybody else can kill me because the one thing I really need as a (D/D) thief (precision) has been taken away.

I play D/D exclusively and have few issues without SA aside from really big condition overload scenarios. I used to use it when I first started playing the game, but have since moved on and am happy I have; that kind of dependence ultimately hindered my growth as a thief substantially, and I’ve found that most thieves using it are just plain annoying to fight more than anything. Playing without SA improves one’s skill level immensely and frankly, some of its capabilities should be defaulted on the thief in weaker forms better-dispersed with some of the extremely forgiving abilities like rejuv just not available seeing as stealth already fulfills a huge purpose of damage avoidance. The server lag in WvW has been an issue lately, as I was finding even mobs rubber-banding, but since this past reset Friday I haven’t had any issues.

I’m running solo in wvw, so it’s likely I will run into multiple enemies – I have no one to back me up or to remove my conditions.
Other builds have got other advantages f.e. interrupt etc – all things I lack with my build – and which would be great at times.
Anyway – how can you be a better thief without SA when you were killed by 2 guys who weren’t able to kill you with 12 others before? Doesn’t really sound like it.

Because before I played without SA, I’d still only be able to take on around two people. That was mostly a means of indicating that the people I went up against weren’t just bad players/uplevels that didn’t have the capacity to actually kill me. I fairly frequently 1v2/1v3 with decent success. Imho, anything above a 1v2/1v3 scenario where a victor is determined in terms of the outnumbering side losing is either a demonstration of low-skill opponents or a really overpowered build, and even then it’s questionable. The skill ceiling is only truly so high to the extent that players in these scenarios should genuinely lose without a favorable matchup determined by build. Playing without SA teaches one how to be better at the thief because it requires the player to be better to survive in more difficult scenarios; ones which often a thief with SA will be dependent on SA’s ridiculous benefits to survive in and not through skilled play. Taking away the training wheels forces the player either to get better or die, and through death and learning, get better at playing overall. Simply put, you can’t get better at something without failing. Most established thieves will agree the SA line acts as a crutch despite the necessity of SE in many regards, and will openly mention that using SA, like playing P/D, will teach bad habits.

DeceiverX.8361:

Because before I played without SA, I’d still only be able to take on around two people.

Ok, so you ran away with your SA build, or why weren’t the 14 able to kill you?

DeceiverX.8361:

Playing without SA teaches one how to be better at the thief because it requires the player to be better to survive in more difficult scenarios; ones which often a thief with SA will be dependent on SA’s ridiculous benefits to survive in and not through skilled play.

I already said that non SA builds have got other tools to survive f.e. interrupt which is “op” in 1vs1 or 1vs2 scenarios. So it’s a diffent playstyle but you have more/different tools as a non SA thief to stay alive. And just to say: Warriors have got passive condi removal, a lot of classes have got passive health regeneration. It’s great that you don’t like SA but that doesn’t make it “op”.

Jana.6831:

DeceiverX.8361:

Because before I played without SA, I’d still only be able to take on around two people.

Ok, so you ran away with your SA build, or why weren’t the 14 able to kill you?

DeceiverX.8361:

Playing without SA teaches one how to be better at the thief because it requires the player to be better to survive in more difficult scenarios; ones which often a thief with SA will be dependent on SA’s ridiculous benefits to survive in and not through skilled play.

I already said that non SA builds have got other tools to survive f.e. interrupt which is “op” in 1vs1 or 1vs2 scenarios. So it’s a diffent playstyle but you have more/different tools as a non SA thief to stay alive. And just to say: Warriors have got passive condi removal, a lot of classes have got passive health regeneration. It’s great that you don’t like SA but that doesn’t make it “op”.

Ikr these kitten are pointing out all the thief’s advantages as OP. I mean that’s 70% of what we have that defines our class, stealth. So shouldn’t we be great and rewarded or using that trait line? Not to mention how much damage we have to sacrifice in order to use it’s full potential. Think about it you noobs, every class is gw2 will specialise at a specific trait and therefore that trait will has to be effective in order for one to use it for instance rangers are unbeatable archers thus they are rewarded for being marksmen by sniping people(longbow power ranger), guardians is the class that has the highest sustain in the game therefore squishes will have trouble against them and they have soo much sustain that they are able to balance their damage depending on their build, engineers are famous for explosives that’s why they are successful for high aoe condi burst etc ect you get the point. So before you whine about any class I suggest you play them first. Thieves aren’t OP, SA isn’t OP. Play the class before you state anything about it. You noobs should stop whining it’s seriously getting annoying.

I’d like to ask how you arrived at that 70% number seeing as stealth is not a class mechanic for any of the classes in GW2. Access for the thief is just higher than the rest.

SA works with any build aside from P/W and always offers a benefit. The cost in terms of damage output is relatively low overall (I can still stab 12k’s 6 deep in SA), and the defensive benefits are absolutely monstrous to the point where while playing skillfully SA thieves should never die except when wildly out-numbered. I ran an unkillable P/P healing power build in sPvP for a long time because SR and BP were enough to carry my healing and sustain needs alone because the defense is so ridiculous.

You’re comparing SA’s absolutely bonkers utility to… Sleight of Hand? Seriously? I’m sorry, but SoH is used almost exclusively for denying heal skill use because it’s instant. Durability from trickery lies almost exclusively in boon theft, and with Acrobatics the case is pretty much just feline grace paired with S/D evasion.

It took 14 to kill me because the line offered me the ability to have infinite-duration healing effects, constant AoE blinds, constant condition removal, innate toughness, and sustained damage potential from HA. It was honestly press 5 a few times, drop their glass over a bit of time, whittle down the mid-range, press 1, disengage, heal, commit to their durable targets, repeat. Eventually I kept bumping into them with more and more numbers until it finally got to a point where the auto-attack coverage/CC was just too much to handle to keep up with. I want to point out you can achieve permanent stealth uptime on CnD alone and never get revealed.

Lol Nephrite, you’re telling me to play the class. Now THAT’s funny. I don’t mean to boast, but I invented the highest-hitting [thief] build in GW2 and have spent thousands of hours perfecting it and tweaking it. I receive PM’s daily from forum-goers and people in-game (mostly enemy thieves in WvW astonished at the damage numbers when they see a 20k+ figure land to get instantly slain) asking for advice and tips while using the build. I was contracted into a guild to teach their thieves how to run such a build to be more effective periphery and the necessary nuances of proper re-positioning while using a build that does not have any freebies.

@Jana, recall that I offered insight on how to play thief when you were on these boards some months ago asking for advice, no? Well, my genuine advice is to stray away from SA if possible – even if temporarily – because not using it just makes you such a better player. Cool if you use it, for the day it gets nerfed and thief gets some small buffs across the board will be the day the class actually becomes useful in sPvP beyond ganking because SA is bad for capture and hold/the class is too crappy without it to fight 1v1 in that format, and when SA players will wonder why they’re sucking in WvW because their crutches got ripped from under them. Those who learned will just find themselves better off.

I can’t force anyone to play without SA, but it’s genuine advice to avoid doing so on the basis that it teaches bad habits. It’s necessary in some instances, like when you need to carry a party through Mai Trin’s fractal just because of the thief’s incapability of soloing that without support from other players otherwise, but otherwise, it’s almost totally not needed and with practice outside of using it will make one a much better thief.

“Warriors have got passive condi removal”

wat

StonePower.8321:

“Warriors have got passive condi removal”

wat

Trait VII, line 4, trait II, line 3.

DeceiverX.8361:

@Jana, recall that I offered insight on how to play thief when you were on these boards some months ago asking for advice, no? Well, my genuine advice is to stray away from SA if possible – even if temporarily – because not using it just makes you such a better player. Cool if you use it, for the day it gets nerfed and thief gets some small buffs across the board will be the day the class actually becomes useful in sPvP beyond ganking because SA is bad for capture and hold/the class is too crappy without it to fight 1v1 in that format, and when SA players will wonder why they’re sucking in WvW because their crutches got ripped from under them. Those who learned will just find themselves better off.

I can’t force anyone to play without SA, but it’s genuine advice to avoid doing so on the basis that it teaches bad habits. It’s necessary in some instances, like when you need to carry a party through Mai Trin’s fractal just because of the thief’s incapability of soloing that without support from other players otherwise, but otherwise, it’s almost totally not needed and with practice outside of using it will make one a much better thief.

I play thief with SA because I like the playstyle. I can’t remember having asked for advice – that would be last april maybe and I honestly can’t remember your name – I thought you were a ranger. Anyway, I’m bad at remembering names.
Yes, I do compare it with sleight of hand as in my personal opinion it’s ridiculous how much stuff you can put into steal. So, if I were like you I would demand to nerf steal.
I don’t play pvp, or at least not that much and (especially) thieves are nerfed in pvp anyway – so I can’t kick my buddy’s (medi guard) butt in pvp but in wvw (we’re on opposing servers) so to me pvp is a whole different playground and I would have to play it more to see how SA affects that part of the game.

Jana.6831:

StonePower.8321:

“Warriors have got passive condi removal”

wat

Trait VII, line 4, trait II, line 3.

- II dogged march isn’t “condi removal” but reduction
- VII is a really weak trait that most people don’t use.

You are taking two warrior traits (with one being kitten) to justify the SA line.
SA is ridiculously OP in wvw because you get too many advantages out of one trait line and it carries bad thieves way too much.

I don’t get these discussions.

SA (beyond 2 points) is useless in:

- pvp
- pve
- wvw zerg focusparty

It’s good for trolling people in 1vs1. Oh look, there is no 1vs1 game mode.

A thief can disengage, so what?

In wvw you have all the 1vs1 heros with dire gear and perplexity runes. There are so many cheesy builds but its not a problem, because it’s not a kitten 1vs1 game mode.

StonePower.8321:

Jana.6831:

StonePower.8321:

“Warriors have got passive condi removal”

wat

Trait VII, line 4, trait II, line 3.

- II dogged march isn’t “condi removal” but reduction
- VII is a really weak trait that most people don’t use.

You are taking two warrior traits (with one being kitten) to justify the SA line.
SA is ridiculously OP in wvw because you get too many advantages out of one trait line and it carries bad thieves way too much.

I use the traits in wvw, my buddies use them and they’re better than SA condi removal – in my opinion. Edit: Especially since I don’t have to do anything for them to kick off.
I don’t get the problem of you guys, honestly – I better look for another game as you seem to be completely overwhelmed by the existence of thieves.

You could say d/d and p/d need SA to work well, d/p can stealth with no target which really isn’t that hard and is more abused in wvw then SA itself s/d has the runaway aspect and relies more on SB/withdraw, I even see some with SA instead of Acro.

I still fail to see how SA is a crutch unless you are one to associate thief with one-trick all or nothing burst, SA creates a sustain and control kind of burst which is not forbidden to the class. Most people play dumb vs thieves anyway,they keep panicking,stay still while he disengage,don’t time the stealth attacks,don’t avoid CnD,don’t keep an eye on them in group fights, I understand some builds counter others but your build must be conquest specific for not being able to handle one thief.

I only feel that full sa tree is a crutch only because of how much quicker I can burst someone down by taking 4 points sa and put into da. Running 6/0/2/0/6 s/d panic strike in wvw. The 2 points in sa I have not yet really seen what is better, SE or master of deception. I use to run 6 sa but now I want to try other traits. The biggest thing I miss the most from sa is the 300 added toughness and healing power (well not healing power that much)

Fat Disgrace.4275:

I only feel that full sa tree is a crutch only because of how much quicker I can burst someone down by taking 4 points sa and put into da. Running 6/0/2/0/6 s/d panic strike in wvw. The 2 points in sa I have not yet really seen what is better, SE or master of deception. I use to run 6 sa but now I want to try other traits. The biggest thing I miss the most from sa is the 300 added toughness and healing power (well not healing power that much)

It makes sense you should see a difference in damage between power and toughness lines, it’s like saying war shouldn’t go 4 or 6 in Defense and run 6 0 0 2 6 GS / Ax/Sh . At least s/d has evades and bit of cleansing I fail to see how p/d and d/d can compare unless you are dependent on SB and shadowstep. Dire or Valkyrie won’t save you over completing those two this is not pve the burst all quick works against dumb AI/bad players.

Dusk.4708:

I lol everytime I see these posts, bottom line, learn how to fight a thief before you complain about their CLASS MECHANIC. Wanna know how to fight a thief? kitten them off mentally, just walk away from wherever they stealth and if they attack you AoE/burst them and if they run away let them! Eventually their patience will run thin and they will go HAM to try and kill you without dying which is when you open up a can of whoopass and drop them OR…..they say the heck with it, and go find another victim to toy with PROBLEM SOLVED.

Stealth is not a class mechanic. The stealth attacks with #1 and steal are. Engis, mesmers, rangers can also stealth. If using runes of infiltrator any class can stealth. Eles underwater have a smoke field that can be used to stealth.

This is a troll or some quick venting from the OP. Either way this thread should’ve been locked a while ago.

DeceiverX.8361:

Playing without SA teaches one how to be better at the thief because it requires the player to be better to survive in more difficult scenarios; ones which often a thief with SA will be dependent on SA’s ridiculous benefits to survive in and not through skilled play. Taking away the training wheels forces the player either to get better or die, and through death and learning, get better at playing overall. Simply put, you can’t get better at something without failing. Most established thieves will agree the SA line acts as a crutch despite the necessity of SE in many regards, and will openly mention that using SA, like playing P/D, will teach bad habits.

I mostly agree with deceiver’s points except for the statement that ‘SA is a crutch’. If that is true, then some thieves use utilities as a crutch, lasting only as long as they burn through them; sword skills 2 & 3; the acro line etc. can also be a crutch (and are often used as such).

imo, playing as many builds and weaponsets is probably the best way to go. Always staying with any particular build or playstyle will ultimately limit how skilled you can get.

knowing in what situations swiftness & simple movement will be just as effective as a dodge roll or sword 2; that HP is only just another resource you should leverage in order to win and not something to be hoarded, etc. Different builds teach/emphasizes different things.

Playing full SA d/d for example will force you to realize that even with almost as much survivablity as thieves can actually build for, you still cannot stay in melee and still win.

Just in the same way, playing d/d without SA will force you to learn all sorts of ways to avoid taking damage without using your precious dodge-rolls even when you don’t have any other defensive mechanics.

SA is a useful traitline, ultimately it’s how a player plays is what determines if it is a ‘clutch’ or not no? If you’re just staying in stealth as much as possible and slowly… slowly wearing someone down… then sure. but if you’re using it for the staying power that it gives you to ensure you’re exactly where you are needed, when you are needed, then that’s a different story no?

To OP – if you’re a ranger, and find fighting thieves confusing, try use that pet of yours and lock it on the thief with F1. This will turn the pet into a ‘homing missile’ if you will, meaning that the instant the thief leaves stealth, the pet will set off to reengage him/her.

Use that to your advantage if you have a hard time keeping track of thieves. Even if you lose track of the thief, the pet doesn’t, IF you have locked it onto the target. This same little tip is also quite handy when fighting mesmers.

Op just wait for the expansion. With stronghold been consider as official spvp we will have a map that is not conquest mode been consider for balance purposes.

While in conquest mode stealth and 100% runaway is ok because that makes you lose the point in stronghold it will be broken. There will be probably nerfs to steath coming with stronghold.

I summon thee ZERO!

arenta.2953:

i’ve used stealth trap. they warped out of range

It sounds like you’re playing ranger so I’m not understanding how they could have got out of range. There’s tons of movement skills available to rangers like Swoop and Hornet Sting+Monarch’s Leap, they can trait longbow for 1500+ range, and they can even get superspeed from a trapper build.

arenta.2953:

i cant even immobilize them because they lose conditions when stealthed, so just walk out of my vines.

This is actually due to a bug where entangle doesn’t pulse on stealthed targets unfortunately: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Entangle-Vs-Stealth

Reikou.7068:

Eh.

Shadow’s Rejuvenation should be removed

Shadow’s Embrace should be master or grandmaster

Cloaked in Shadow should be master

Last Refuge should be removed.

for a class that can barely “support” others around (if we are talking about water,fire fields, applying boons such as swifntess and regeneration…or even base healing) Thieves SHOULD be able to atleast keep them selfs alive

Kadin.2356:

I summon thee ZERO!

I have been summoned!

His suggestion though isn’t as kittenome of the others…

I had a d/d thief talking down his nose to me.

I ran 6 0 2 0 6 d/p and kitten d him. He stuck with d/p is the crutch.

Another d/d hero just flat out refused to fight me because any form of d/p is cheese

People need to understand d/d is boring to a lot of thieves. It is the simplest weaponset we own….

arenta.2953:

i cant even immobilize them because they lose conditions when stealthed, so just walk out of my vines.

The cuplrit has been spotted! Spreading to the forums now….

Vukorep.3081:

for a class that can barely “support” others around (if we are talking about water,fire fields, applying boons such as swifntess and regeneration…or even base healing) Thieves SHOULD be able to atleast keep them selfs alive

Also need to remind people SA is a healing/sustain trait line it’s doing it’s job, I still believe people just don’t accept a thief should have it like people dislike ele not being nuker but jack of all trades, war not frontline zerker aggro brawler. Any form of mode will favor a spec, just like conquest promotes AoE and bunkers.

Most play meta builds just because they are meta so I expect the same for all modes, buff to other specs efficiency doesn’t regard them unless it replaces their precious meta.

The vast majority of Rangers and of Engineers that I encounter in WvW do NOT USE Sic em or Analyze. In fact I do not recall ever running into an engineer that uses analyze. Even my own ranger when in game rarely has sic em traited as stealth is just not that big a deal.

This means the effects of stealth are being vastly overstated by those in the con camp asking for yet more restrictions on the same. These two classes have decided they would rather trait other traits they deem more useful.

This is simply a matter of “I do not want to take these utilities”. The OP has no case.

It’s almost like the profession built around dueling and single target damage is good at doing that or something.

babazhook.6805:

The vast majority of Rangers and of Engineers that I encounter in WvW do NOT USE Sic em or Analyze. In fact I do not recall ever running into an engineer that uses analyze. Even my own ranger when in game rarely has sic em traited as stealth is just not that big a deal.

This means the effects of stealth are being vastly overstated by those in the con camp asking for yet more restrictions on the same. These two classes have decided they would rather trait other traits they deem more useful.

This is simply a matter of “I do not want to take these utilities”. The OP has no case.

-engi: basically any roaming build needs 2 kits (tool kit+grenade/bomb) leaving only 1 free slot that is normally used to have 1 stun breaker normally the only stun breaker in the entire build. Gadgets are underpowered and lack trait synergy. That is the reason almot no engi uses utility googles.

-ranger: sick them has high cooldown and is situational. Is also a shout, having little synergy with the builds.

Is the same issue as boon vs boon removal. Boons will work for you always, but boon removal will only be useful if the enemy has boons. For stealth it is even more situational, because among 8 classes only 2 are heavy stealth users.

Op…..you obviously don’t know what you are doing if you are having troubles killing thieves as a ranger. You have this magical slot skill known as sic em. Thats 8 seconds for you to burn an extremely squishy class down. Or grab a longbow and use rapid fire on them right before stealth then switch to great sword, press 4 and you have them knocked down then follow up with a hilt bash and maul.

Another ranger complaining.. how unique. Rapid fire on your LB is channeled – if you’re zerk, you will practically kill them if not stop them from coming closer while they waste a heal or stealth – which also gives you an idea as to the direction they’re going in. Sick em is great, and so is fear from one of those dogs you can get. GS is strong as well. If you’re mad about disengage, every class has the ability – thieves are just naturally better at it with shadow step, SR, and SB 5 – whereas a warrior would just leap spam until healing signet gets him back to full hp. I’ve also seen some rangers disengaging very well.

This is more of an l2p issue than anything else. Condi/regen ranger is even easier gg.

But you probably run PTV stats, so I’m not really surprised.

OP my main is a zerk lb ranger and i have very few issues with thieves. Learn to play seriously.

I say this seriously and not as a troll or insult, no offense OP but if it’s going the way you are saying then you’re really just a pretty bad player. Especially if you’re using a stealth siege trap man, that’s just terrible. There are the Rangers who take some burst and panic make poor choices because they can’t see and there are the others who stay calm and it turns into a great fight or I get nuked. I know you’re frustrated and yes sa is strong bt realize this…you really just don’t know what you’re doing. With a good thief its a mind game you can’t just use skills in a predictable pattern and expect to win. Anyway I’ll tell you this, one of the major key tactics to fighting a thief in stealth is knowing where they are in stealth (yes, that’s right, knowing without seeing). When a thief fights a good player it feels almost as if that player knows where they are and can see them even though they are invisible. You’re just not on this level. There are other things too but I would find a good ranger running the same build and roam with them. If they have as hard of a time as you then they are not good and you should find someone who is. So the bad news is well…that you’re kinda bad, the good news…you can do it! I believe in you!

Here’s an interested reddit post…
(It will be less interesting once the people from here start posting in it though)

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2wgs6p/pvpwvw_the_class_lovehate_questionnaire/

ctrl+f “thie” to find all the word instances of thief or thieves …
Most people seem to put them under 7 (enjoy beating them), and only a couple under 8 (despise facing) – weird, I honestly expected a lot more 8’s.