Guild Wars 2

lololololololololol

Unfortunately, OP, this thread isn’t going to do you any favors. While I understand the sentiment, asking for validation (even if/when deserved) will not get the response you want. Human nature. Not sure if you can delete it, but I would recommend doing so if you can. Or, if it’s that important to you, prepare for the heat. You will get recognition, just not the kind you want.

I consider this Sizer’s build because he made it popular. He did this by playing it, doing well, and showing others. He streams it in action (From the ToL and his personal Stream which is found here http://www.twitch.tv/sizer2654 )

azerte.4365:

People give names to builds because of the people who made it popular,
2/6/0/6/0 s/d is “Jumper’s” build
2/6/0/0/6 d/p is “Caed’s” build
0/6/6/2/0 d/d is “Yishis’s” build
2/0/0/6/6 s/d is “Sizer’s” build
Did these people create the build? No. But they were famous enough to make it known to most players hence people refer to those builds by calling it after the player who made it popular.

+1

This pretty much sums it up. I first saw someone mention 2/0/0/6/6 back when we were discussing the vigor nerf (vigorous recovery and bountiful theft) but it’s not like it gained serious traction back then. It took a prominent tournament thief to get it recognized as a viable build.

@ OP: You could think of it as saying “the build that sizer used” but that’s just not as easy as “sizer’s build”

This thread is hilarious. Made my day. Love thief forum for all the hate.
Do I remember OP bringing up this build long ago? – Yes.
Was it horrible and not viable back then? – Yes.
Is it good now? – Yes.
Does it have anything to do with the OP? – No. The reason why “your” build made it to the meta is Ferocity. While 2/6/0/0/6 with zerk amulet didn’t change, Critical Strikes tree itself did. You have obviously noticed that CS gives 20% crt dmg now and zerk amulet was buffed up with these 10%crt dmg to offset the trait tree. Couple it with new sigils and runes of strength and you get the build that packs the punch of 2/6/0/0/6 while having all the benefits of acro.

I would encourage OP, though, to go easy on it. I indeed thought of you when I saw people play 2/0/0/6/6 because I was following the forum back then but it does’t mean this build is yours or that ‘intellectual property" nonsense that you try to impose on people. For instance, I played 10/30/0/0/30 after Steal change the very same day that the patch hit in. I talked about it in my guild, so technically, there’re proofs that this is Three Jackdaws’ build. Also, I played 0/2/6/0/6 the very same day; it’s very similar to 2/0/6/0/6 that I play now and one could say that this is Amon’s spec (and oh irony, people told Amon that this is Trigerless’s spec which is even more ludicrous).

TL;DR I do know that you were one of the first people to play 2/0/0/6/6 on a daily basis. However, you ranting is not the right way to go and only detracts from your, at least for me, opinion of quite good a theory crafter. This is no children sandpit.

Maugetarr.6823:

It took a prominent tournament thief to get it recognized as a viable build.

Didn’t something similar happen with a tourney player popularising hambow? I can’t remember who (Rom and Super come to mind, but I don’t want to falsely attribute this), I just remember warriors being seen as weak until this particular tourney, then they were seen as OP almost overnight. Same with Jumper and his acro S/D S/D build, laughed at before the tourney, widely used afterwards.

People be fickle, I guess :P

I’m not following what this thread is about.
Oh and btw 0/30/30/10/0 d/d and 0/0/30/20/20 p/d is mine. Respect that.

Karolis.4261:

I’m not following what this thread is about.
Oh and btw 0/30/30/10/0 d/d and 0/0/30/20/20 p/d is mine. Respect that.

Arganthium is upset because a build he put time into making was used by a “Name-brand” thief and therefore people are not only starting to use the 20066 build (when it was very unpopular at first) but are giving credit to Sizer for the build’s creation ala they associate the build with Sizer and not Arganthium even though we hear, or at least heard Argy’s voice and promotion about the build long before the usage of the build by Sizer.

Basically, I made a delicious kind of cookie, no once cares. Robert Downey Jr makes same kind of cookie, everyone falls in love with it, I get no credit, despite the fact that I made the cookie.

A thread may not have been needed but I at least understand Arganthium’s anger because he tried to get this build out. And while many may have tried it before him, he was the one to promote it and fine tune it, or at least make that known to his fellow classmates. And I can say that his setup most definitely did not suck. It brought a bunker fighting style to a non-bunker class and it did it fairly well.

As much as I hate to say it though Argy, others are correct, because you are not mainstream via streaming and YouTube, it would seem as you do not exist.

times have changed man, the state of the game is different. oh and btw the traits do mean a whole lot to the build…its what defines the build not the stats imo, back than you would have had way way less damage.

attrail.8613:

times have changed man, the state of the game is different. oh and btw the traits do mean a whole lot to the build…its what defines the build not the stats imo, back than you would have had way way less damage.

Traits are imporatant but not as much as you’re making them out to be. My example is in the form of the severely weakened (darn them) sister builds (balanced). They had the same stat spread but depending on the person a couple traits would be switched for others, yet people would still refer to it as the balanced build and not the exact build they ran.

Best thread 2014 hands down rofl.

Btw 2/0/3/3/6 copyrighted 2014 :-).

I’m pretty sure that most traits has been picked in a specific order multiple times long since… isn’kitten bit silly to argue which one was ‘first’ in a game like this? Instead it’s just nice to see people broadcast builds they find enjoyable. Traits change so much over time, too, etc…

Just want to point out a few things:

1.) Neither sizer nore arganthium can really claim it because someone else more than likely made one before sizer or arganthium stepped foot on a thief.

2.) Just because Sizer whooped kitten with a build doesn’t mean its any good. I can attribute this to the “thief takes no skill to play” stigma simply because kittenty players think the profession is carrying the player (which couldn’t be more false). If anything, warrior is a MAJOR culprit of carrying the player. God forbid if a really skilled person steps on one.

3.) There are way more skilled thieves out there who could kick sizer’s kitten with an inferior build. Yes, we more than likely do not know about them simply because they do not post anything but that doesn’t mean that they don’t exist. In fact they could have ran across these thieves and killed them without knowing who they really were.

Sizer’s probably a really amazing dude to come up with this build.

RedSpectrum.1975:

attrail.8613:

times have changed man, the state of the game is different. oh and btw the traits do mean a whole lot to the build…its what defines the build not the stats imo, back than you would have had way way less damage.

Traits are imporatant but not as much as you’re making them out to be. My example is in the form of the severely weakened (darn them) sister builds (balanced). They had the same stat spread but depending on the person a couple traits would be switched for others, yet people would still refer to it as the balanced build and not the exact build they ran.

in that instance you are correct, but one cant just pick any trait down the line, Venom share for example would completely define the rest of your build and what you’re aiming for. In the case presented, Strength runes with power of inertia is a vital part of what makes the 2/0/0/6/6 viable, and without that specific trait, its a very similar play style and one would have to judge if it would be optimal without it.

so in the end i think we are actually on the same page here. Several Traits are build defining. traits are important, power of inertia+strength runes+feorcity/ammy change imo is a pretty important part of what makes the specific build in question more viable today than it was a year ago.

Shockwave.1230:

[…]which at the time was a seemingly odd one to make as a thief[…]

Lux.7169:

Pretty funny how paradigms shift.

It wasn’t odd, and it wasn’t a dramatic change in S/D. Strength runes got buffed, so this build became viable – it’s as simple as that. Beforehand, it lacked damage. Now it is an effective way to deal with builds that rely on strength runes by stealing strength, and also is supplemented with strength runes from the thief him/herself.

This thread is like watching 100 starving children choosing what’s better to eat – another child, or a baby.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Shockwave.1230:

[…]which at the time was a seemingly odd one to make as a thief[…]

Lux.7169:

Pretty funny how paradigms shift.

It wasn’t odd, and it wasn’t a dramatic change in S/D. Strength runes got buffed, so this build became viable – it’s as simple as that. Beforehand, it lacked damage. Now it is an effective way to deal with builds that rely on strength runes by stealing strength, and also is supplemented with strength runes from the thief him/herself.

Not odd to you it sounds like. Just odd to the meta.

Quit trying to make arganthium happen. It’s not going to happen. People say Sizer’s build as a way of abbreviating the whole build into a simple term. We don’t actually think that Sizer owns the build we just know that he popularized it by playing well with it in ToL. Also the fact that you think this build is your intellectual property is a complete joke, Anet created this game and therefor have the right to all builds.

Instead if whining and trying to get people to recognize this build as your creation, you should be happy that you were the potential inspiration for Sizer to play a similar build, and that he did so well with it and that it’s getting a “celebrity” endorsement.

Arg I’ve always given you credit for this build However, I maintain that it only became a good build after the april patch changed the game enough to make it viable.

Arganthium.5638 is now famous/popular!

Chicago Jack.5647:

Shockwave.1230:

[…]which at the time was a seemingly odd one to make as a thief[…]

Lux.7169:

Pretty funny how paradigms shift.

It wasn’t odd, and it wasn’t a dramatic change in S/D. Strength runes got buffed, so this build became viable – it’s as simple as that. Beforehand, it lacked damage. Now it is an effective way to deal with builds that rely on strength runes by stealing strength, and also is supplemented with strength runes from the thief him/herself.

My comment was less about this build in particular, but more of a general statement on trends in the thief community (which also includes S/D).

More specifically things like S/P which I used to wonder what made people stop playing it and top tier players said “retal in team fights just destroys it and in 1v1 there are better builds so no one uses it competitively.”

Nothing about the skill changed and it eventually made a drastic re-appearance as meta, replacing the then-popular S/D from when Jumper made S/D popular.

That being said I still regarded S/D as superior based on performances like Jumper in the past and the minimal nerfs S/D received. Now we’re seeing S/D make a comeback and S/P is almost extinct. Paradigms shifting with little influence from patches. I could go into more detail like how no one thought 8s of Berserkers stance was worth bringing for months, and then over night people decided it was amazing and it grew to solidify warriors foundation in the meta to this day (even after shaves).

I’ve been talking about this for months on the thief podcast we host weekly.

Mmm. There are a few general arguments/comments/whines here that people are bringing up that I want to address…

You weren’t the first to play the build so it doesn’t belong to you
In all probability, neither was just about any other player who is said to own a build, but that doesn’t keep us from giving ownership to people for those builds. Plus, if that’s the case, then you shouldn’t be calling it Sizer’s build anyways.

Well, Sizer played it in ToL, whereas you never played it in any major tournament.
To the extent of my knowledge, Jumper’s build was called Jumper’s build a while before he actually played it in a large tournament. Either way, though, I’m not sure why playing the build in a tournament is more important than the summation of writing a guide on the build, promoting it in the community, etc.

Lol well I’m just gonna “patent” my [sucky build]
The difference is that the build that I wrote a guide on the build, updated the build multiple times, advised people who were seeking to play the build (I was the go-to guy for the build for a year); I played it competitively within the (now dead) E-Sports guild along with a lot of players who were famous or near-famous, but were certainly well-known to any good sPvPer, plus I took the heat for making the build that nobody else was going to take (and, ironically, I’m taking the heat for the build again).

What’s the point of this thread?

Anyway, to all the people that don’t understand the point of this thread, it’s no fun being laughed at for using a certain build, only to discover that a year later every single thief is using it and giving the credit for the build to someone else.

The traits/utilities/runes are different, which makes it Sizer’s build and not yours.
The only significant differences are in 1. Power of Inertia and 2. Runes of Strength, the two combined making the build different enough to make it a variation (though not an entirely separate build) on 2 0 0 6 6. Every other difference (i.e. Sleight of Hand, Shadow Refuge, Pain Response) is pretty insignificant overall, or has been included under the umbrella of the 2 0 0 6 6 build that I proposed originally, and I’ve stated multiple times how those traits/utilities can be put into the build. The point, however, is that they don’t create enough of a difference in play style to make them significant by themselves. PoI+Runes of Strength, on the other hand, do, and if you guys want to associate that idea with Sizer, then go ahead. However, the initial idea of 2 0 0 6 6 as a trait set is far from belonging to Sizer.

Nobody owns builds
I’d love to live in a world where that was the case, but unfortunately most of the GW2 community seems to disagree.

Stop being such a baby
Lol

Your build sucks
Apparently, 2 0 0 6 6 sucked up until a month or two ago as well, and now everybody thinks it’s amazing in spite of the fact that very little changed about the build itself (outside of Runes of Strength). But honestly most (emphasis on most- the exceptions know who they are <3) of you saying my build sucks/still sucks either have never played the build before or have nothing in general to back up your claims in the first place. Or, you just suck.

Arganthium.5638:

Nobody owns builds
I’d love to live in a world where that was the case, but unfortunately most of the GW2 community seems to disagree.

People relate the build to (insert popular player). When they say Sizer’s build they are literally it as if he created the build when in fact they are just relating it to Sizer in many cases.

People come to my house and see a Pitcher filled with Red drink they are probably going to call it Kool-Aid even though it might be called Fruity Powder drink with a stick of butter added to make it taste richer therefore it literally isn’t Kool-Aid.

In your case you may have created the build and it should probably be referred to as Arganthium’s build – Popularized by Sizer but do you think anyone will go through the trouble of that on this or any other forum?

Check the mesmer forums there are probably 50 PU variations with different names and maybe a trait changed(if that) sometimes it is only just some sigils or runes but same concept. Most will call the build PU anyway unless it’s something Osicat made.

Arganthium.5638:

Apparently, 2 0 0 6 6 sucked up until a month or two ago as well, and now everybody thinks it’s amazing in spite of the fact that very little changed about the build itself (outside of Runes of Strength)…

I would like to add there are other changes that affected the rise of this build that you may not have considered.

One of which is the nerf to Critical Damage.

oZii.2864:

Arganthium.5638:

Nobody owns builds
I’d love to live in a world where that was the case, but unfortunately most of the GW2 community seems to disagree.

People relate the build to (insert popular player). When they say Sizer’s build they are literally it as if he created the build when in fact they are just relating it to Sizer in many cases.

People come to my house and see a Pitcher filled with Red drink they are probably going to call it Kool-Aid even though it might be called Fruity Powder drink with a stick of butter added to make it taste richer therefore it literally isn’t Kool-Aid.

In your case you may have created the build and it should probably be referred to as Arganthium’s build – Popularized by Sizer but do you think anyone will go through the trouble of that on this or any other forum?

Check the mesmer forums there are probably 50 PU variations with different names and maybe a trait changed(if that) sometimes it is only just some sigils or runes but same concept. Most will call the build PU anyway unless it’s something Osicat made.

I get why people aren’t going to call it “Arganthium’s build – Popularized by Sizer”, and I’m not even necessarily annoyed that it’s called Sizer’s build, per se. I just feel like a lot of people are overhyping the build and treating Sizer like he’s some kind of god which, to be honest, I don’t think is entirely deserved in the context of the contents of this post.

OIIIIIO.7825:

Arganthium.5638:

Apparently, 2 0 0 6 6 sucked up until a month or two ago as well, and now everybody thinks it’s amazing in spite of the fact that very little changed about the build itself (outside of Runes of Strength)…

I would like to add there are other changes that affected the rise of this build that you may not have considered.

One of which is the nerf to Critical Damage.

That’s more of a change to other builds, or just all builds in general, which doesn’t have much bearing on 20066 itself. I know why the build has suddenly become more popular, I’m just saying that the build in and of itself hasn’t really changed

Arganthium.5638:

Nobody owns builds
I’d love to live in a world where that was the case, but unfortunately most of the GW2 community seems to disagree.

Okay, look at it this way. If someone took the 20066 build or a slight variant in to a match, no single sensible PvP player would say that you were “copying” Sizer, in the same way that no sensible WvW player would say you are “copying” Yishis if you take x66xx.

Nobody is claiming that Sizer created and owned the build when they refer to the build as “Sizer’s build”. They are simply relating to the fact that Sizer uses it, because Sizer is popular and people know who he is, and thus could recall the build faster. Yeah, it sucks for you, but that’s the way the world works. Popularity is everything in this medium.

You’ve kind of doomed yourself with this thread. I get that you’re annoyed, but you really should have risen above some of these replies instead of the hostility I’m seeing. Just responding with things like “you just suck” does not help your cause in any way whatsoever.

And another thing – as OIIIIO said, it is more than just Runes of Strength/Power of Inertia. Ferocity reduced the Critical Damage boost from Critical Strikes by 10%, meaning there is less to lose by deviation. Fire and Air can now be used together because of the cooldown splits, meaning it is possible to get back some spike potential of 6 CS in other ways while getting better shutdown utility from the other trait lines.

Yes, the build itself has barely changed, but its relative position in the meta due to other changes, and thus the possibility of more widespread use in tournament play, has changed. The build was never bad and never sucked.

Auesis.7301:

Arganthium.5638:

Nobody owns builds
I’d love to live in a world where that was the case, but unfortunately most of the GW2 community seems to disagree.

Okay, look at it this way. If someone took the 20066 build or a slight variant in to a match, no single sensible PvP player would say that you were “copying” Sizer, in the same way that no sensible WvW player would say you are “copying” Yishis if you take x66xx.

[addressed in last comment]

You’ve kind of doomed yourself with this thread. I get that you’re annoyed, but you really should have risen about some of these replies instead of the hostility I’m seeing. Just responding with things like “you just suck” does not help your cause in any way whatsoever.

[rest addressed in last comment]

From the stories I’ve heard in the past, running a build like 20066 in sPvP could very well get you called a Sizer copycat. Hell, I know a guy in the OMFG (Mesmer forum) guild who named his pet on his ranger “Pyroatheist” and got called a “Mesmer wannabe” (or something to that effect).

As for the “you suck” comment… Well, I hardly see comments such as

Nolimitz.9467:

Of course arganthium ill give you credit for your kittenty ineffective outdated 2/0/0/6/6 build and continue to put sizer’s properly updated 2/0/0/6/6 build on my rotations that i use when i play thief and spit at your setup.

… as being highly constructive, and I know I’m not going to convince people like Nolimitz of the point I’m trying to make with my post anyways, so there’s no point on being constructive with them. That’s just my take on it.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Shockwave.1230:

[…]which at the time was a seemingly odd one to make as a thief[…]

Lux.7169:

Pretty funny how paradigms shift.

It wasn’t odd, and it wasn’t a dramatic change in S/D. Strength runes got buffed, so this build became viable – it’s as simple as that. Beforehand, it lacked damage. Now it is an effective way to deal with builds that rely on strength runes by stealing strength, and also is supplemented with strength runes from the thief him/herself.

I don’t know how you used S/D 20066 but this build did not lack damage. Sure it didn’t hit as hard as the used-to-be-meta 26006, but it’s not like it like a bowl of pudding. With the might it got as well and sigils, this build held its own against a lot of punishment in terms of competing for damage. Now however people realize it’s good since Ferocity shows its ugly face and the damage output by other builds doesn’t skyrocket above 20066.

OIIIIIO.7825:

Arganthium.5638:

Apparently, 2 0 0 6 6 sucked up until a month or two ago as well, and now everybody thinks it’s amazing in spite of the fact that very little changed about the build itself (outside of Runes of Strength)…

I would like to add there are other changes that affected the rise of this build that you may not have considered.

One of which is the nerf to Critical Damage.

Pretty sure everyone here is talking about PvP and not wvw…
Meaning crit damage wasn’t affected.

I don’t understand what kind of “Public Service” this announcement is performing.

Lux.7169:

OIIIIIO.7825:

Arganthium.5638:

Apparently, 2 0 0 6 6 sucked up until a month or two ago as well, and now everybody thinks it’s amazing in spite of the fact that very little changed about the build itself (outside of Runes of Strength)…

I would like to add there are other changes that affected the rise of this build that you may not have considered.

One of which is the nerf to Critical Damage.

Pretty sure everyone here is talking about PvP and not wvw…
Meaning crit damage wasn’t affected.

Critical Strikes gives 300 Ferocity instead of 30% Critical Damage, even in PvP. In total it lost 10% Critical Damage.

I’m pretty sure you all just suck and this argument here has no point.

Flood Control: Please wait 3600 seconds between posts!
Here, I wasted my only post that i can make in an hour, happy?

Auesis.7301:

Lux.7169:

OIIIIIO.7825:

Arganthium.5638:

Apparently, 2 0 0 6 6 sucked up until a month or two ago as well, and now everybody thinks it’s amazing in spite of the fact that very little changed about the build itself (outside of Runes of Strength)…

I would like to add there are other changes that affected the rise of this build that you may not have considered.

One of which is the nerf to Critical Damage.

Pretty sure everyone here is talking about PvP and not wvw…
Meaning crit damage wasn’t affected.

Critical Strikes gives 300 Ferocity instead of 30% Critical Damage, even in PvP. In total it lost 10% Critical Damage.

except in pvp the damage is literally exactly the same post patch as pre-patch…

Look at it this way: People here now know you.
A shame, it’s as the bigges crybaby in the thief community

Seriously though; what do you call someone, who was
reasoned with, explained rationally why people see things differently
and still insists that he is right even if that means everyone else is wrong?

A troll.

Arganthium.5638:

Nobody owns builds
I’d love to live in a world where that was the case, but unfortunately most of the GW2 community seems to disagree.

That’s funny because literally everyone who posted here besides you either stated that it doesn’t matter or that it’s just called ’sizer’s’ out of practicality, not to indicate ownership.

I get why people aren’t going to call it “Arganthium’s build – Popularized by Sizer”, and I’m not even necessarily annoyed that it’s called Sizer’s build, per se. I just feel like a lot of people are overhyping the build and treating Sizer like he’s some kind of god which, to be honest, I don’t think is entirely deserved in the context of the contents of this post.

So what was the reason behind your thread then? You stated that people calling it sizer’s doesn’t bother you, however you wrote:

yet attributing the build to Sizer agitates me a lot.

Was it all just to derogate someone elses accomplishments?
I’m genuinely curious.

Lux since you don’t understand I’ll explain. The CS trait line lost 10% crit damage from this patch. To compensate, Anet BUFFED beserker’s amulet by adding 10% there to keep the total the same. 2/6/x/x/x builds kept the same crit chance while builds not using CS got an overall 10% increase in crit damage. That along with runes of strength/pirate, dual sigil procs, and more might on enemy players (that you can now steal from with higher efficiency) is what made this build more viable. Oh, did i forget that conditions are a lot less prevalent now?

So, in the past you were running lyssa (crappy dps) with 2/6/0/6/0 and now you’re running strength/pirate with 2/0/0/6/6. With the above changes a difference in dps between those builds isn’t even noticeable. Sure, you can still run 2/6/0/6/0 today and have even higher dps but in my experience it’s not worth losing the utility of the trickery line.

Arg, for your health and happiness I’d say just drop it man. The opinions of a bunch of random people doesn’t mean kitten. You know what you did and how much effort you expended to prove out this build. The changes in the April patch did a whole lot to change things around but the basics of this build remain the same as they were a year back when you were getting laughed at for it.

I, as one of the few that actually read the forums, said to myself during ToL, “Hey, Sizer’s running Arganthium’s build”. But I’m some random too so my thoughts don’t matter either right?

Cheers

Crovax.7854:

Look at it this way: People here now know you.
A shame, it’s as the bigges crybaby in the thief community

Stop that.

Bump for more e-drama.

Rubik.7192:

Bump for more e-drama.

LOL

Credit to you for coming up for it first, but that’s how things goes in terms of who made it popular when it became viable – this thread doesn’t do you much favours aswell, just don’t take constructive criticism as trolling unlike people like Cro.

Sizer comes from my own Server, I’ve heard of him, but I’m not much of a PvPer, more of a WvWer really.

I’m sure many others like me like to mess about with Builds and Gear in WvW for personal lolz, I wouldn’t refer anything that I find viable as my own or anyone else’s.

scabrous.7835:

Was it horrible and not viable back then? – Yes.
Is it good now? – Yes.

Game didn’t change that much. meaning your earlier qualification as ‘horrible’ was not quite accurate.

frans.8092:

scabrous.7835:

Was it horrible and not viable back then? – Yes.
Is it good now? – Yes.

Game didn’t change that much. meaning your earlier qualification as ‘horrible’ was not quite accurate.

Just a quick summary of some of the changes people have mentioned for fyi purposes:

• Non-ferocity builds have 10% more crit damage when using berserker’s amulet since the april patch (this is free damage for s/d acro that it previously didn’t have)
• Strength runes (provide 3+ might stacks as a fight progresses on, and perma 7% damage buff). Strength runes also make might more readily available for stealing.
• Cleave wasn’t quite as strong in the meta, so the higher damage thief builds stood out more.
• Sigil changes add more damage overall to all builds (this impacts s/d acro)

Were the passives on signets buffed at some point too? I recall conjures had stats added for passives.

Shockwave.1230:

frans.8092:

scabrous.7835:

Was it horrible and not viable back then? – Yes.
Is it good now? – Yes.

Game didn’t change that much. meaning your earlier qualification as ‘horrible’ was not quite accurate.

Just a quick summary of some of the changes people have mentioned for fyi purposes:

• Non-ferocity builds have 10% more crit damage when using berserker’s amulet since the april patch (this is free damage for s/d acro that it previously didn’t have)
• Strength runes (provide 3+ might stacks as a fight progresses on, and perma 7% damage buff). Strength runes also make might more readily available for stealing.
• Cleave wasn’t quite as strong in the meta, so the higher damage thief builds stood out more.
• Sigil changes add more damage overall to all builds (this impacts s/d acro)

Crit damage bonus only triggers on critical hits, +10% crit damage is no more then 4-5% damage – especially without the 300 precision. Not a big deal. 3 might stacks is only 100 power and +7% is nice but the runes are available to everyone and they do not change the relative strength of builds much, although in combination with Sterngth Sigils they’d favor high crit chance (Critical Strikes) more. Sigil +damage affects all builds.

It may have improved with the patch, but a horrible vs. good qualification change is not due to the ferocity patch, but an earlier mis-judgment. Which is no big deal, but the denial is plain silly.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Basically, I made a delicious kind of cookie, no once cares. Robert Downey Jr makes same kind of cookie, everyone falls in love with it, I get no credit, despite the fact that I made the cookie.

I love cookies. When I read this, I cried. Robert Downey Jr is an kitten -hole.
I feel your pain brother

Also – Artosis Pylon. I’m sure he’s very happy to have that association.

Just a reminder guys, the “crit damage” nerf isn’t affected in SPVP as in PvE with Ferocity. Remember this.

Arganthium – go make Sizer look like an amateur and we’ll start calling it the “arganth” build. Til then…. well… it will be either the “Sizer” or the “Arg is a whining attention ho” build

lol dude your build looks nothing like sizer’s build except the point disputation.
i guess i can just try any point disputation and don’t even need to think about the utilities, traits and say every build who used this point disputation is mine.

frans.8092:

Shockwave.1230:

frans.8092:

scabrous.7835:

Was it horrible and not viable back then? – Yes.
Is it good now? – Yes.

Game didn’t change that much. meaning your earlier qualification as ‘horrible’ was not quite accurate.

Just a quick summary of some of the changes people have mentioned for fyi purposes:

• Non-ferocity builds have 10% more crit damage when using berserker’s amulet since the april patch (this is free damage for s/d acro that it previously didn’t have)
• Strength runes (provide 3+ might stacks as a fight progresses on, and perma 7% damage buff). Strength runes also make might more readily available for stealing.
• Cleave wasn’t quite as strong in the meta, so the higher damage thief builds stood out more.
• Sigil changes add more damage overall to all builds (this impacts s/d acro)

Crit damage bonus only triggers on critical hits, +10% crit damage is no more then 4-5% damage – especially without the 300 precision. Not a big deal. 3 might stacks is only 100 power and +7% is nice but the runes are available to everyone and they do not change the relative strength of builds much, although in combination with Sterngth Sigils they’d favor high crit chance (Critical Strikes) more. Sigil +damage affects all builds.

It may have improved with the patch, but a horrible vs. good qualification change is not due to the ferocity patch, but an earlier mis-judgment. Which is no big deal, but the denial is plain silly.

Since you are nitpicky, let me be to nitpicky as well. Pre-patch build used Lyssa runes for the cond bomb/ mass cleanse and to, to some extent, offset precision lost from CS. What it lacked, though, was killing power. Horrible build is a build that serves no purposes and it was a horrible build. It could sustain itself for very long time but had hard time competing with 10/30/0/30/0 which had both sustain and killing power.

And now onto the “numbers” since yours are blatantly wrong. First of all, the damage in crtdmg is 20% and not 10. “Omg noob, why? 300 ferocity is 20% and was 30%” Indeed, but zerk and valk ammies were buffed for the remaining ten. Secondly, rune of strength buffs the dps of this build twice:
a) 7% modifier + might stacking which outdps-s Lyssa Runes. The difference in damage is more of an 10-12% dispersion rather than 4% that you have mentioned. Sigils+runes+ammy all add to the final result.
b) it gets additional benefit in the meta – ubiquitous usage of runes of strength. SD is back in meta mostly to counter other specs using these runes (Sigil of Intelligence Soldier’s Hambow comes to my mind).

If you adress my post, refer to the entire concept and not just two lines that you find fault with. What you brought up had been resolved in my previous post. While in this one all I do showing your lack of knowledge of the available PvP gear as well as differences pre-post patch.

PS Don’t adress this post since I am not going to look into this topic anymore. Cheers to RedSpectrum for siding with Argh vs forum ranters.

So did Leonardo DaVinci invent the helicopter?

http://www.leonardodavincisinventions.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/leonardo-da-vinci-helicopter.jpg

or did Louis Breguet?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Breguet

or did Igor Sikorsky?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_R-4

All three could lay some claim to being the “inventor the helicopter.” There is a lesson in here, but I doubt the OP will understand it.