Perma-Stealth is Legalized Griefing

Perma-Stealth is Legalized Griefing

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Posted by: Boysenberry.1869

Boysenberry.1869

This is just a whine post about how irritating Perma-Stealth thieves are and how they seem designed for the sole purpose of being annoying and nothing else.
They never fight you (maybe they can’t effectively in order to maintain the build, I don’t know) beyond a couple weak shots from afar. They can scout, but then anyone can relay info about where the enemy zerg is located. The one thing they seem to enjoy doing the most is just sneezing in the direction of keeps to keep them contested (which is a dumb mechanic but that’s another topic). They add virtually nothing to the game beyond annoying people. You could say to just ignore them…but a not-really-but-sorta-really-contested waypoint is also annoying.

One example among many billions I’m sure people can tell. A thief is contested a keep just because they are bored I guess. Several players including myself try to run him down but he’s constantly stealthed. You can’t catch him long enough to do any real damage or put any meaningful conditions on him. He just dances around the map effortlessly with infinitely fast recharging initiative. That any class can maintain invisibility indefinitely and leap enormous distances out of range indefinitely just seems a bit too much to me.

I thought I was smart this time though. I placed a stealth trap and sat down on it. Sure enough the thief couldn’t help but run over to annoy me when poof…no stealth for you! Time to di…nevermind, he’s already leaped halfway across the map (the other chasers did not seem to want to coordinate with my trap at all). By the time we caught up with him the stealth trap wore off and he vanished again. You could say we were slow at catching up, but not every class has ridiculous mobility to be able to do so.

My solutions:
1. Increase the stealth trap duration to at least 1 minute. Make it really worthwhile.
2. Stealth skills need longer cooldowns or a higher cost. Anything so that you can’t spend the entire “fight” stealthed.
3. Re-tool the contest mechanic to take away all joy from a perma-stealth. Pew pewing a door causes all nearby npcs to point and laugh instead.

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Posted by: Endrance.1680

Endrance.1680

In GW1 we had Assassins and they were equally annoying. Granted the didn’t stealth like the Thieves we have now, rather they had similar characteristics for heavy damage output and great evade. Beyond that there were skills that made them invulnerable and difficult to hit. I hated Sins in GW1 and I hate Thieves in GW2. They aren’t going anywhere and we can only hope for a nerf which will hopefully decrease the number of people playing such a cowardly, useless profession.

Proceed to bash me as you will forum posters. I frankly don’t care. Thieves are trash.

+1 for the whining OP. XD

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Posted by: Scryeless.1924

Scryeless.1924

Griefers only grief when they are untouchable. The moment you touch them, they disappear.

SoS – Ele – Burn Me, Freeze Me, Blind Me, Pound Me — Wait…What?
Warrior – The New Burninator! Strongbad would be so proud!
Guardian – Burn for you, heal for me, block for me and uh…sorry Im all out of gifts.

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Posted by: JWiLL.7514

JWiLL.7514

I’ll tell you this particular story about a lousy thief. I saw some server mates of mine crossing to WC in EBG alongside dredge and a couple theives who’d been perma stealthing jumped out and attacked. I was on my frontline zerg build for my warrior with a hammer and s/wh. We 3 downed one thief and I stayed to go at the remaining thief while the others made it safely to WC.

The JQ thief had to SR at least 3 times, maybe even 4 because I was a hit or two of putting him down each tim so on the fourth time he SR’d, my commander was calling for a rally and I was sick of being sucked in and trolled by the worst thief I’ve ever fought so I finally disengage seeing as he’s done it 4 times already and what does he do? He PMs me calling me a kitten for leaving after his 4th SR. I told this DB I have no real power or crit dmg, I am a tank with melandrus on and this obnoxious moron continues to provoke for the next few minutes to which I found hilarious.

Black powedering is one thing but if you’re a high burst dmg thief as he claimed to be who kept missing and continually having to disengage and SR, it’s time to reflect on how you play and I told him that and I’m sure yo all can assume his response.

I’ve dueled great thieves that will use blinds and BP and never SR once or disengage to fully heal, but staying on topic, I think thieves have been nerfed enough over the years and it is their purpose to scout ahead invisible or to make swords on keeps or even to troll the tail of a zerg so that it disrupts things or even stay perma stealthed and pick off stragglers on the zerg’s tail. A commander who’s on point will let his tail catch up and call for swiftness so that they can move as one. Those that don’t put their players at risk of these ultimate trolls.

I play thief too and I love to stay stealthed and backstab and re-stealth just because and harass because it’s fun.

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

Don’t real life armies have light armor, highly mobile skirmishers whose purpose is to harass and annoy the enemy while picking off single targets? Sounds like thieves fill that same tactical slot to me.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

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Posted by: Ballads.2509

Ballads.2509

Uh to me it seems the thief was doing a good job keeping the WP contested. Of course he did not attempt to fight your Several friends, same with after you stealth trapped him. He used all his mobility tools to run because to fight at that point would be foolish. If you want him to fight, step out solo, hit him with a /bow and see what happens.

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Posted by: Kousetsu.1627

Kousetsu.1627

L2P

-Signed all GW2 Thieves.

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Posted by: Dietere.3476

Dietere.3476

L2P

-Signed all GW2 Thieves.

^^^ /15sofstealth

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Posted by: Johje Holan.4607

Johje Holan.4607

Yea stealth is terrible. It never should have been in the game.

But Anet loves it so it’ll never get diminished. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if they make it even more powerful and annoying in the expansion.

Case in point: Did you see how giddy they were when talking about the mass stealth in the Earth Keep in the new BL? I’m sure that’s not the worst of it.

Mark my words soon they will have every profession with a specialization with stealth. Everyone will just be running around invisible. And Anet will think that’s great fun.

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Posted by: Dawdler.8521

Dawdler.8521

L2P

-Signed all GW2 Thieves.

Too bad there is nothing to learn. There is no counter-play to stealth other than wildly flailing your weapon into thin air (which you do either way).

Not that Anet is ever going to fix anything, this kitten has been broken since release and Anet has always made it very clear that they love the Thief. So no need to worry about it.

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Posted by: warduke.1780

warduke.1780

Yea stealth is terrible. It never should have been in the game.

But Anet loves it so it’ll never get diminished. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if they make it even more powerful and annoying in the expansion.

Case in point: Did you see how giddy they were when talking about the mass stealth in the Earth Keep in the new BL? I’m sure that’s not the worst of it.

Mark my words soon they will have every profession with a specialization with stealth. Everyone will just be running around invisible. And Anet will think that’s great fun.

So you’d suggest removing a core mechanic from a profession nearly 3 years in, which would mean the entire profession would have to be reworked…

It’s not “Anet loves stealth lol” it’s that every thief would quit the game.

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Posted by: Dark FQ.1038

Dark FQ.1038

The dagger 5 (cloak and dagger) trick is worst of them all. Thieves can deal quite alot of damage and stay in stealth. Now with the new SA (-50% damage in stealth) more players will play that profession in WvW.

Dark Fq (Desolation and Gandara)all classes condi. http://www.youtube.com/user/FQDark

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Posted by: coglin.1867

coglin.1867

L2P

-Signed all GW2 Thieves.

Too bad there is nothing to learn. There is no counter-play to stealth other than wildly flailing your weapon into thin air (which you do either way).

Not that Anet is ever going to fix anything, this kitten has been broken since release and Anet has always made it very clear that they love the Thief. So no need to worry about it.

fix anything? There is nothing to fix. Just because a portion of players disingenuously claim there is a problem with stealth, simply because they do not like it, or are incapable of handling a thief, does not definitively mean there is anything wrong with it.

in my opinion, when it comes to stealth and thieves, I feel too many posters appear to confuse their subjective opinion with that of actual objective fact.

A video on what weak PvPer’s and WvWer’s want.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c

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Posted by: Calanthe.3857

Calanthe.3857

There also need to be a lot more ways to apply Revealed to enemies, because currently there are only two profession skills to do it.

I had a thief follow me as I trailed our zerg across half the map in EOTM. She kept trying to pick off the stragglers and, even with my Ranger Trapper build, I could not stop her. Super annoying and unbalanced. And thieves like this can take down your health to half in just a few hits.

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Posted by: T raw.4658

T raw.4658

There also need to be a lot more ways to apply Revealed to enemies, because currently there are only two profession skills to do it.

I had a thief follow me as I trailed our zerg across half the map in EOTM. She kept trying to pick off the stragglers and, even with my Ranger Trapper build, I could not stop her. Super annoying and unbalanced. And thieves like this can take down your health to half in just a few hits.

I think I’ve identified the problem. Roll a thief and learn. Post a daily blog on you playing your thief.

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Posted by: SpellOfIniquity.1780

SpellOfIniquity.1780

You know the best way to deal with trolls? Don’t feed them.

If you see a Thief that is obviously not built to fight and is only running away, then don’t try to fight them…. They’ll get bored of their mischief rather quickly if no one is there give them entertainment. And if they don’t get bored quickly they certainly will eventually.

Way back when I was on Jade Quarry there was a perma-stealth Thief that liked to stalk active zergs and contest our keep. People would complain about him and chase him down to no avail. I chased him a few times and realized he wouldn’t be caught so I just started to be passive when I saw him to the point I got him to go in to tonic form with me while we both /dance’d. From then on I never attacked him when I saw him because I know the effort would be fruitless. Turned out, he was a pretty nice guy as well.

Yes it’s an annoying mechanic but ignoring it is the best way to fight it. Otherwise you’re overthinking ways to stop him and wasting time chasing a squirrel when you could be bringing down a keep.

Necromancer, Ranger, Warrior, Engineer
Champion: Phantom, Hunter, Legionnaire, Genius
WvW rank: Diamond Colonel | Maguuma

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Posted by: Aberrant.6749

Aberrant.6749

L2P

-Signed all GW2 Thieves.

Too bad there is nothing to learn. There is no counter-play to stealth other than wildly flailing your weapon into thin air (which you do either way).

Not that Anet is ever going to fix anything, this kitten has been broken since release and Anet has always made it very clear that they love the Thief. So no need to worry about it.

Wat. You can counter every stealth a thief can do without reveal other than with blinding powder.

C&D-> Dodge
BP->HS dodge cc or reflect cc (eng sheild 4 does both these things)
SR-> cc

Hmmm seems like thieves are weak vs cc and they lack stability… it’s almost as if it was designed that way >.>

Ok say you mess up and they stealth… don’t just stand there like a grazing cow. There are ways of moving to make backstabs harder to land. At worst you can use about face and you’ll have a reasonable chance at them just doing a weak frontstab.

You can also punish them for when they come in for a backstab (aoe such as bombs or necro marks work well).

If it’s a pistol thief you can reflect it (it won’t destealth them and they’ll often hit themselves 5-10 times).

So there are things you can do to prevent them from stealthing and ways to punish them even after you’ve messed up and they’ve stealthed. There was no need to even add in the no tell 2,000 range reveal skill stuff, but there is that too. This sort of stuff is what people are talking about when they say L2P.

Tarnished Coast
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa

(edited by Aberrant.6749)

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Posted by: Frightlight.3796

Frightlight.3796

If you see a thief you hate log on to your condi engi and spam him with condis to death it works pretty well dont forget your perplex runes!

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Posted by: DarkSyze.8627

DarkSyze.8627

When Requirement= no risk, only reward? old news.

-Reporting should result in good change: not make bad change worse! -

It is not your fault Boysenberry for reporting the same 3 years problem

" Solutions To A Problem Can Only Be Found, When You Want To Get Rid Of It "
Ankur

(edited by DarkSyze.8627)

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Posted by: Ensign.2189

Ensign.2189

They want you to chase them. You beat them by ignoring them, as they are not projecting any threat or doing anything useful otherwise.

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

While I hate stealth, it’s a necessary evil. Why? Because the class is one of the squishiest in the game, and the squishiest in the game if running a build that works. But why stealth? Because other classes have mechanics which promote passive play by the opponent. Torment, Confusion… all readily available to most other classes and builds, and the thief is physically incapable of dealing with builds that usually apply this in large quantities.

I’d be fine with losing stealth (as long as I can keep my backstab burst) if confusion and torment are thrown out the window. THOSE promote passive, do-nothing play more than anything, and offer way more of a low-risk/high-reward style of play when paired with dire gear due to its innate durability.

On a side note, any thief using SR and claiming to be dealing some kind of major burst damage is not building for real burst and just being arrogant and probably carried by fire/air procs.

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Posted by: yolo swaggins.2570

yolo swaggins.2570

Well golly gee OP…

It isn’t our fault a bunch of scrubs got wrecked outside their keeps causing them to foam at the mouth and scream nerf teef everywhere. It isn’t our fault that arenanet nerfed us into a couple roles.

But if you really want this cowardice to cease, you’ll help the thief community redesign the profession so stealth stops becoming a necessity rather that turning it into a free lootbag.

Liaison for [Teef]
“Please stop complaining about stuff you don’t even know about.” ~Nocta

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Posted by: Dave.6819

Dave.6819

looool @ this post. some1 saying that thieves are OP and should be deleted xD u clearly havent played a thief i suppose. go create one and play abit. you might realise its quite hard to be a really good thief. now take a look at other classes (eg ranger). they dont even require skill to be good. so please dont cry. atleast our prof. requires skill to be good unlike yours.

Thief prof. really needs your attention
#dyingbreed

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Posted by: Tarkan.5609

Tarkan.5609

I love the 3rd idea you have with the npc laughing xD

hate the 1st one though – i mean really… stealth trap?
kittened as kitten, had so many longbow pew pew rangers putting down stealth trap to have an easy kill on me, bad luck for them that i very rarely run stealth builds and could kill them anyway – but stealth traps are annoying, they are totally not adding anything to the game apart from a free thief kill in case some of his cds are gone (if shadowsteps gone and youre a pew pew ranger then goodbye)

and the 2nd idea isnt the best one either – we dont need higher costs on stealth, we need stealth with SA to be less passive and more focused on active gameplay
something anet wants to encourage but exactly the opposite is shown in the preview of HoT, great job really
and for d/p perma stealth x66xx spammers anet should add sth like diminishing return, where it maybe reduces the amount of stealth applied on you if you stay stealthed/restealth too often without attacking (apart from maybe hitting the shot on black powder, dont be so lazy anet)

PvP, Teef & Engi

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Posted by: godz raiden.2631

godz raiden.2631

Alright, Anet can give you anti-thief cry babies a stealth trap that reveals for one minute. But in return, I propose they buff thief base HP, give us easier access to defensive boons (stability and protection), and give us at least one utility that provides invulnerability for 3-5 seconds.

Balance! Lol!

Actually, better idea… play a thief for a week straight and see just how silly you appear in the eyes of thief players with this post. Playing thief isn’t the walk in the park that anti-thief players tend to believe it is.

Godz Raiden (Thief)
Maguuma

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

But if you really want this cowardice to cease, you’ll help the thief community redesign the profession so stealth stops becoming a necessity rather that turning it into a free lootbag.

That’s not going to happen. The expansion is/was the most opportune time for a class redesign, and they haven’t done that. The elite spec will most likely be an extension of the class rather then a whole game changer, as in we will still be squishy and still reliant on stealth/evades to survive more then likely, this is judging by the Chronomancer spec that the mesmers just got…

Long story short. QQ’ers are either going have to deal with it, or they can leave the game. “Whiteknights” are either going to have to get used to the QQ’ers (and enjoy their tears), or leave/not read the forums.

I understand people come on the forums mainly to vent when they make QQ threads… And really that’s the most you will ever get.


Oh OP, welcome to the nerf wish list!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Nerf-Wish-list/page/10#post5028797

Thief Nerf/Change Wish List. Advice List
Join the TEEFs!

(edited by Zero Day.2594)

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Posted by: Doggie.3184

Doggie.3184

Permastealth is actually a myth. Not only does it not exist, but you can actually even see where a Thief is while he’s stealthed with your mind’s eye. Your perception is just confused and/or untrained.

| Fort Aspenwood (NA): Sylvari Daredevil Thief Main: All Classes 80. |
Please Remove/Fix Thief Trait: “Last Refuge.”
“Hard to Catch” is a Horrible and Useless Trait. Fixed 6/23/15. Praise Dwayna.

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Posted by: Johje Holan.4607

Johje Holan.4607

Yea stealth is terrible. It never should have been in the game.

But Anet loves it so it’ll never get diminished. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if they make it even more powerful and annoying in the expansion.

Case in point: Did you see how giddy they were when talking about the mass stealth in the Earth Keep in the new BL? I’m sure that’s not the worst of it.

Mark my words soon they will have every profession with a specialization with stealth. Everyone will just be running around invisible. And Anet will think that’s great fun.

So you’d suggest removing a core mechanic from a profession nearly 3 years in, which would mean the entire profession would have to be reworked…

I said it never should have been in the game in the first place. There’s a difference.

There have been some good threads about how to “fix” stealth.

It’s not “Anet loves stealth lol”

No, Anet devs do love stealth. They’re like a kid in a candy store when they think about stealth.

it’s that every thief would quit the game.

Hmmmmm…

(edited by Johje Holan.4607)

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Posted by: DarkSyze.8627

DarkSyze.8627

Permastealth is actually a myth. Not only does it not exist, but you can actually even see where a Thief is while he’s stealthed with your mind’s eye. Your perception is just confused and/or untrained.

From my investigation: you are not a new player so that mean: you are not telling the truth. Here is the truth: Perma-Stealth do exist: there is so many evidence everywhere: why not tell the truth?

" He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself the accomplice of liars and forgers "

" A lie would have no sense unless the truth were felt dangerous "

" A lie may take care of the present, but it has no future "
.

" Solutions To A Problem Can Only Be Found, When You Want To Get Rid Of It "
Ankur

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Posted by: SoulSin.5682

SoulSin.5682

Permastealth is actually a myth. Not only does it not exist, but you can actually even see where a Thief is while he’s stealthed with your mind’s eye. Your perception is just confused and/or untrained.

From my investigation: you are not a new player so that mean: you are not telling the truth. Here is the truth: Perma-Stealth do exist: there is so many evidence everywhere: why not tell the truth?

" He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself the accomplice of liars and forgers "

" A lie would have no sense unless the truth were felt dangerous "

" A lie may take care of the present, but it has no future "
.

It really doesn’t exist.

“Perma-Stealth” is just a masked effect of reaplying stealth many times over using all your initiative and utility skills and a certain minor trait.

That’s said:

- Using C&D every 4 seconds isn’t perma-stealth. Sorry, there is no arguing over that.
- You can’t perma-stealth on Black Powder + HS after the initiative nerf.
- Both BP and Smoke Screen stealth stacking can be countered simply by forcing the enemy get revealead hitting you with HS or Cluster Bomb. It has counter play.
- SR adds 14 long of seconds of stealth, but its clearly visible to anyone in the map and opens a window to get the thief revelead if countered.

All of this is completely different from months ago when you could literally maintain infinite stealth time with BP + HS alone.

All of that for no real combat advantage at all since:
- Chocking gas now deals damage and thiefs can’t share poison from stealth anymore.
- Save caltrops for Cond builds. Staying 20 seconds or 2 seconds on stealth will essentially deal the same damage. That of course, if caltrops don’t get nerfed at some point.

Lets face it, perma-stealth isn’t the problem.
You guys aren’t getting farmed by perma-stealth thieves, you guys are getting farmed by smart thieves that are proficient in replying stealth when necessary.

Which. is. just. like. ArenaNet. planned. this. class.

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Posted by: Drennon.7190

Drennon.7190

Permastealth is actually a myth. Not only does it not exist, but you can actually even see where a Thief is while he’s stealthed with your mind’s eye. Your perception is just confused and/or untrained.

From my investigation: you are not a new player so that mean: you are not telling the truth. Here is the truth: Perma-Stealth do exist: there is so many evidence everywhere: why not tell the truth?

" He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself the accomplice of liars and forgers "

" A lie would have no sense unless the truth were felt dangerous "

" A lie may take care of the present, but it has no future "
.

Darksyze,
Here is the truth: you’re terrible at this game and cry about everything. There is so many evidence everywhere: why not tell the truth?

Inb4 my infraction

Baer

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Posted by: DarkSyze.8627

DarkSyze.8627

Permastealth is actually a myth. Not only does it not exist, but you can actually even see where a Thief is while he’s stealthed with your mind’s eye. Your perception is just confused and/or untrained.

From my investigation: you are not a new player so that mean: you are not telling the truth. Here is the truth: Perma-Stealth do exist: there is so many evidence everywhere: why not tell the truth?

" He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself the accomplice of liars and forgers "

" A lie would have no sense unless the truth were felt dangerous "

" A lie may take care of the present, but it has no future "
.

Darksyze,
Here is the truth: you’re terrible at this game and cry about everything. There is so many evidence everywhere: why not tell the truth?

Inb4 my infraction

I am not perfect at this game but i try: that is what matter. I do not cry about everything: i cry when i want to challenge a thief who only hide all the time. I cry when i want to have fun fighting a thief who instant kill me before i even try fighting.

Cry is not crying of emotion but expression of disappointment.

why you say infraction?

" Solutions To A Problem Can Only Be Found, When You Want To Get Rid Of It "
Ankur

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Posted by: DarkSyze.8627

DarkSyze.8627

Permastealth is actually a myth. Not only does it not exist, but you can actually even see where a Thief is while he’s stealthed with your mind’s eye. Your perception is just confused and/or untrained.

From my investigation: you are not a new player so that mean: you are not telling the truth. Here is the truth: Perma-Stealth do exist: there is so many evidence everywhere: why not tell the truth?

" He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself the accomplice of liars and forgers "

" A lie would have no sense unless the truth were felt dangerous "

" A lie may take care of the present, but it has no future "
.

It really doesn’t exist.

“Perma-Stealth” is just a masked effect of reaplying stealth many times over using all your initiative and utility skills and a certain minor trait.

That’s said:

- Using C&D every 4 seconds isn’t perma-stealth. Sorry, there is no arguing over that.
- You can’t perma-stealth on Black Powder + HS after the initiative nerf.
- Both BP and Smoke Screen stealth stacking can be countered simply by forcing the enemy get revealead hitting you with HS or Cluster Bomb. It has counter play.
- SR adds 14 long of seconds of stealth, but its clearly visible to anyone in the map and opens a window to get the thief revelead if countered.

All of this is completely different from months ago when you could literally maintain infinite stealth time with BP + HS alone.

All of that for no real combat advantage at all since:
- Chocking gas now deals damage and thiefs can’t share poison from stealth anymore.
- Save caltrops for Cond builds. Staying 20 seconds or 2 seconds on stealth will essentially deal the same damage. That of course, if caltrops don’t get nerfed at some point.

Lets face it, perma-stealth isn’t the problem.
You guys aren’t getting farmed by perma-stealth thieves, you guys are getting farmed by smart thieves that are proficient in replying stealth when necessary.

Which. is. just. like. ArenaNet. planned. this. class.

I agree with you: You are a experience thief player I also still agree with Boysenberry especially with suggestion.

You are a experience thief player, so i have a question for you: why not increase stealth cooldown to not abuse stealth? It would make sense right?

Again: that is why i do not blame hackers, exploiters and botter for abusing the game because thief stealth is doing the exact same thing like them.

“Which. is. just. like. ArenaNet. planned. this. class”.

Obvious!

You are correct: that is why abusing, exploiting and griefing in this game is consider ok to Arena net.

" Solutions To A Problem Can Only Be Found, When You Want To Get Rid Of It "
Ankur

(edited by DarkSyze.8627)

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Posted by: Nephrite.6954

Nephrite.6954

Roaming diversity. :p

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Posted by: SoulSin.5682

SoulSin.5682

You are a experience thief player, so i have a question for you: why not increase stealth cooldown to not abuse stealth? It would make sense right?

Technically speaking, there is no cooldown on stealth itself.
If you are asking if stealth skills could have a longer cooldown or use more initiative: they already are the skills with the longest cooldown and initiative cost. Raising it would be unhealthy without proper gain somewhere else.

Again: that is why i do not blame hackers, exploiters and botter for abusing the game because thief stealth is doing the exact same thing like them.

“Which. is. just. like. ArenaNet. planned. this. class”.

Obvious!

You are correct: that is why abusing, exploiting and griefing in this game is consider ok to Arena net.

Easy answer.
Stealth is not cheating. It’s not a exploit. And griefing depends.

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Posted by: DarkSyze.8627

DarkSyze.8627

Here is interesting article i want to share: enjoy idea with suggestion. Arena net can use idea and suggestion for this game against griefing if want?

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2006/jun/15/games.guardianweeklytechnologysection2

" Gamers don’t want any more grief "

“Players who abuse others in online games may soon be ostracised as virtual communities start to police their own environments”.

“The gaming community calls them “griefers”: people who like nothing better than to kill team-mates or obstruct the game’s objectives. Griefers scam, cheat and abuse, often victimising the weakest and newest players. In games that attempt to encourage complex and enduring interactions among thousands of players, “griefing” has evolved from being an isolated nuisance to a social disease".

""The most common ‘griefer counter-measure’ is to put in place a strong community system," says Stephen Davis of IT GlobalSecure, a firm that specialises in developing security technologies for online games.

“These community services provide clan features, friends lists, reputation stats, and other features both to tie players more closely to the game and create an environment that reduces anonymity for misbehaving players.” Increasingly, the solution to griefing is not simply to ban nuisance players, but to encourage the development of virtual societies capable of dealing with their own virtual crimes"

" Beyond the pale "

“Instead of the developer intervening, online gaming is seeing the emergence of systems by which the community can moderate itself. In 2003, eGenesis released A Tale in the Desert, which offered players the ability to make laws, determining what actions were permitted and even banning problem players”.

“This experiment paved the way for the transference of some responsibility from developers to gamers. Xbox Live’s Gamer Card system indelibly links your actions to your account by allowing other players to rate your behaviour. A low enough reputation will mean few people willing to play with you. Griefing has therefore become a relatively minor support issue for Microsoft”.

" Solutions To A Problem Can Only Be Found, When You Want To Get Rid Of It "
Ankur

(edited by DarkSyze.8627)

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Posted by: Eodwen.2613

Eodwen.2613

I don’t want to get into the topic of griefing, However I do want to point out that engi and war have much greater ability to cover ground and escape zergs. Maybe it is because people have always thought of stealth as a cheap trick in the MMO genre that they lash out at thieves. And keep tagging is a valid tactic in wvw.

What I do want to point out is that the OP solutions are as vague as saying plz nerf thief. He makes no specific suggestion of any change on any particular skill. Change stealth trap revealed duration to 1 min +: This will probably have 0 impact whatsoever or will end up being broken. Change cds and initiative for stealth skills: Ok but how much? Which skills do you find problematic? Bp Hs combo is already at 8 initiative and thief has 12 base initiative. Infusion of shadow doesn’t work with stealth stacking. CnD cant provide perma stealth and SR is 60 seconds cd. Op’s third suggestion makes no sense to me so I can’t really comment.

Also the point of both wvw and spvp is not to kill the other player to win. I don’t understand why people are so fixated in killing the thief/bunker engi etc. The game is balanced in a way so you can win via other ways. The real problem here is not that the thief stops you from winning but that you want to kill him just to kill him and you can’t.

(edited by Eodwen.2613)

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Posted by: Turk.5460

Turk.5460

This guy still hasn’t created and played a Thief yet. You’d think after all this complaining he would at least give it a shot and see for himself…

-Fort Aspenwood- [UNIV] [TLC] [ShW]
-Sorrow’s Furnace-

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Posted by: SoulSin.5682

SoulSin.5682

Here is interesting article i want to share: enjoy idea with suggestion. Arena net can use idea and suggestion for this game against griefing if want?

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2006/jun/15/games.guardianweeklytechnologysection2

Please, read your own arguments before posting here.

The gaming community calls them “griefers”: people who like nothing better than to kill team-mates or obstruct the game’s objectives. Griefers scam, cheat and abuse, often victimising the weakest and newest players. In games that attempt to encourage complex and enduring interactions among thousands of players, “griefing” has evolved from being an isolated nuisance to a social disease.

As far as Guild Wars 2 is concerned. Killing enemy players in WvW or sPvp, using whatever method, can’t be considered griefing since that’s the objective of the game mode in itself.

Nonethless, in a game that doesnt have KS, Loot Steal or PK mode enable, griefing here is almost nonexistant. Regardless, none of the methods of griefing available in this game are related to the stealth discussion.

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Posted by: Eodwen.2613

Eodwen.2613

Also "infinitely fast recharging initiative "? really? I mean really?!

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Posted by: DarkSyze.8627

DarkSyze.8627

I don’t want to get into the topic of griefing, However I do want to point out that engi and war have much greater ability to cover ground and escape zergs. Maybe it is because people have always though stealth as a cheap trick in the MMO genre that they lash out at thieves. And keep tagging is a valid tactic in wvw.

What I do want to point out is that the OP solutions are as vague as saying plz nerf thief. He makes no specific suggestion of any change on any particular skill. Change stealth trap revealed duration to 1 min +: This will probably have 0 impact whatsoever or will end up being broken. Change cds and initiative for stealth skills: Ok but how much? Which skills do you find problematic? Bp Hs combo is already at 8 initiative and thief has 12 base initiative. Infusion of shadow doesn’t work with stealth stacking. CnD cant provide perma stealth and SR is 60 seconds long. Op’s third suggestion makes no sense to me so I can’t really comment.

Also the point of both wvw and spvp is not to kill the other player to win. I don’t understand why people are so fixated in killing the thief/bunker engi etc. The game is balanced in a way so you can win via other ways. The real problem here is not that the thief stops you from winning but that you want to kill him just to kill him and you can’t .

I Disagree with you.

Nothing worth having comes easy "- " Nothing in the world is worth having or worth doing unless it means effort, pain, difficulty "

We other profession besides… are the ones doing all the work with difficulty: making all the effort and going through pain except thief profession?

" I was taught that the way of progress was neither swift nor easy "

Why thief profession way of progress is swift and easy?

" All things are difficult before they are easy "

We other profession are still having difficult with thief profession: how did thief profession become easy without difficult? How did thief profession get reward without difficult? How did thief profession get reward without risk while we get risk than reward?

" Good things do not come easy. The road is lined with pitfalls "

How is it Good things come easy for thief profession? How is it thief profession immune to line in the road and pitfalls? We other profession have to try harder to get Good things and go to line road with pitfalls and not thief profession?

Do you understand now?

It is not about winning or want to win against thief or be fixated in killing the thief, it is about thief profession being a Exceptional Profession who take short-cuts to -attain- everything, anything for doing absolutely nothing!! While we other profession are the one is punish, suffer and restrict for taking the long way working hard to attain even the smallest thing

Is This What You Call Win!

Is This What You Call Balance!

" Solutions To A Problem Can Only Be Found, When You Want To Get Rid Of It "
Ankur

(edited by DarkSyze.8627)

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Posted by: Dietere.3476

Dietere.3476

It is not about winning or want to win against thief or be fixated in killing the thief, it is about thief profession being a Exceptional Profession who take short-cuts to -attain- everything, anything for doing absolutely nothing!! While we other profession are the one is punish and suffer for taking the long way working hard to attain even the smallest thing

So you’re saying that thieves get ahead in the game by taking short-cuts and doing very little while others have to work hard for what they get… Sounds a lot like real life! Anet nailed it on immersion! Thief is working 100% as intended.

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Posted by: swinsk.6410

swinsk.6410

Lol @ trolling OP… I hate to say it but only bad players get killed by thieves these days…

Just another noob thief…

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Posted by: Maugetarr.6823

Maugetarr.6823

I don’t want to get into the topic of griefing, However I do want to point out that engi and war have much greater ability to cover ground and escape zergs. Maybe it is because people have always though stealth as a cheap trick in the MMO genre that they lash out at thieves. And keep tagging is a valid tactic in wvw.

What I do want to point out is that the OP solutions are as vague as saying plz nerf thief. He makes no specific suggestion of any change on any particular skill. Change stealth trap revealed duration to 1 min +: This will probably have 0 impact whatsoever or will end up being broken. Change cds and initiative for stealth skills: Ok but how much? Which skills do you find problematic? Bp Hs combo is already at 8 initiative and thief has 12 base initiative. Infusion of shadow doesn’t work with stealth stacking. CnD cant provide perma stealth and SR is 60 seconds long. Op’s third suggestion makes no sense to me so I can’t really comment.

Also the point of both wvw and spvp is not to kill the other player to win. I don’t understand why people are so fixated in killing the thief/bunker engi etc. The game is balanced in a way so you can win via other ways. The real problem here is not that the thief stops you from winning but that you want to kill him just to kill him and you can’t .

I Disagree with you.

Nothing worth having comes easy "- " Nothing in the world is worth having or worth doing unless it means effort, pain, difficulty "

We other profession besides… are the ones doing all the work with difficulty: making all the effort and going through pain except thief profession?

" I was taught that the way of progress was neither swift nor easy "

Why thief profession way of progress is swift and easy?

" All things are difficult before they are easy "

We other profession are still having difficult with thief profession: how did thief profession become easy without difficult? How did thief profession get reward without difficult? How did thief profession get reward without risk while we get risk than reward?

" Good things do not come easy. The road is lined with pitfalls "

How is it Good things come easy for thief profession? How is it thief profession immune to line in the road and pitfalls? We other profession have to try harder to get Good things and go to line road with pitfalls and not thief profession?

Do you understand now?

It is not about winning or want to win against thief or be fixated in killing the thief, it is about thief profession being a Exceptional Profession who take short-cuts to -attain- everything, anything for doing absolutely nothing!! While we other profession are the one is punish, suffer and restrict for taking the long way working hard to attain even the smallest thing

Is This What You Call Win!

Is This What You Call Balance!

What I understand is that you refuse to follow your signature. The thief is challenging for you to fight against, and instead of learning from it by continuing to play, you have flatly stated that you will not continue to challenge yourself and grow until it has been made easier for you through nerfing others.

Blank Players [BDL]-Anvil Rock
Maugen Rawr- Thief/Ele
Rebalance Ideas for Thief

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Posted by: Ibbuli.4027

Ibbuli.4027

L2Teef

I’ve even managed to land one shot back stabs to stealthed full zerker thieves by trying to predict where they’re trying to go and back stab my allies. You’ll get pretty good at it once you play thief yourself, usually they make the same mistakes I would make.

It’s quite easy to win a thief duel (and to be killed), usually it’s just matter of who interrupts the most important skills a row. You can kill a thief under 5 seconds just by basilisk venom, sleight of hand and D/P skill 4 while spamming 1-1-1-1-1-1-1. Well, at least that’s the way I find easy to kill other stealth spam thieves in sPvP.

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Posted by: babazhook.6805

babazhook.6805

>>Why thief profession way of progress is swift and easy?

I do not think you have ever played a thief.

I have taken every class to level 80. They very easiest to get that level were the Warrior, Guardian than Ranger. I would rate the Thief as among the hardest even with that stealth as they died so easily.

Engineer was also very easy once i got the hang of it. I found the elementalist the most difficult although it likely a lot easier the second time around.

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Posted by: mompen.7952

mompen.7952

I like that Anet really didn’t listen to the whiners and QQers on the upcoming Expansion, they even made stealth more powerful.

So people can whine all they want, they won’t change a core class specialization upon a L2P issue, as now was the time they really could re-design the thief, but they didn’t.
So get over it already.

Kenny Shayde/Ken Shadowpaw-Theef|Spiteful Sithis-Necro|Kennyneer-Engi|Mr Hex Appeal-Mesmer

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

perma stealth is only issue in wvw
when i deal with permastealthing thief, i drop reveal trap or just interrupt any stealthing skills they are trying to use -> then collect my bag <3

All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>

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Posted by: Eodwen.2613

Eodwen.2613

@Darksyze: I completely disagree with what you said. Your arguments are non-existent and you theorize that thief is easy, and that thief can win and other can’t when in fact there are classes with way lower skill cap that win in specific game modes, like turret engi and bunker guardian.

I also don’t see why you complain about thieves but there is no mention to pu mesmers who do the exact same thing with one slight difference. An SA specced thief doesn’t have enough power to kill you as he can apply only minimum pressure to you and you need to screw up your rotation to die from him. PU mesmer will eventually kill you unless you withdraw and leave him alone, or you ll end up in a permanent stalemate with him.

You say thief is easy and other classes are working hard to achieve the same result, which is absolutely and totally mistaken. War (GS) and engi( speedy kits and toolkit) achieves the same mobility and higher survivalability with very little effort . You think thief is easy but you don’t give any specific facts about skills or traits that make thief easy and effortless to play and need changing.

I don’t play thief as main, I play mez which is supposed to be hard countered by thieves and I can tell you what you claim is exaggerated and wrong.

Edit: If you are talking about a specific game mode like wvw, you should make specific suggestions that don’t affect other game modes. Nerf thief is not the way to go.

This thread is not constructive in the least all you and are doing is faffing about.

(edited by Eodwen.2613)

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Posted by: DarkSyze.8627

DarkSyze.8627

@Darksyze: I completely disagree with what you said. Your arguments are non-existent and you theorize that thief is easy, and that thief can win and other can’t when in fact there are classes with way lower skill cap that win in specific game modes, like turret engi and bunker guardian.

I also don’t see why you complain about thieves but there is no mention to pu mesmers who do the exact same thing with one slight difference. An SA specced thief doesn’t have enough power to kill you as he can apply only minimum pressure to you and you need to screw up your rotation to die from him. PU mesmer will eventually kill you unless you withdraw and leave him alone, or you ll end up in a permanent stalemate with him.

You say thief is easy and other classes are working hard to achieve the same result, which is absolutely and totally mistaken. War (GS) and engi( speedy kits and toolkit) achieves the same mobility and higher survivalability with very little effort . You think thief is easy but you don’t give any specific facts about skills or traits that make thief easy and effortless to play and need changing.

I don’t play thief as main, I play mez which is supposed to be hard countered by thieves and I can tell you what you claim is exaggerated and wrong.

Edit: If you are talking about a specific game mode like wvw, you should make specific suggestions that don’t affect other game modes. Nerf thief is not the way to go.

This thread is not constructive in the least all you and are doing is faffing about.

Thank You! for correcting me: you are correct: i should say what game mode i am playing. I am talking about wvw. I did give constructive suggestion and i am not “faffing about”. You even say you do not play thief: i do not understand why you make me feel i am exaggerating and wrong.

I have many more experience against thief profession: that is why i post about thieves. I do know what i am talking about and even some thieves agree with me. I do not ask for thieves nerf: i ask Arena net to re-design thieves traits because that is where main problem is.

Also, i did not even use the word “nerf” in my post so i do not know why you think i did.

Last: I do make suggestion about other problematic threat professions not only thieves: elementalist and engineer. For mesmer: i agree with you about mesmer profession but i do not think they are threat compare to thieves, elementalist and engineer: > Ranger profession: Yes! you can be too <

I hope you understand.

" Solutions To A Problem Can Only Be Found, When You Want To Get Rid Of It "
Ankur

(edited by DarkSyze.8627)