Guild Wars 2

I think the last change(Reduced the aftercast on the first half of this skill by .25 seconds )they did to pistol whip has made the skill quite decent and there is no longer a need to change this skill. Its really good in a group setting where you can have a team mate lock down you opponent. PW provides cleave dmg, an evade, and an interrupt(good solo aswell).

From what I have heard most players are happy with the current pw. May I suggest instead of going into the effort of changing this skill you can take what you are working on and put that towards a new main hand weapon for the thief instead.

If so many people are happy with it, why did I run into a total of 1 S/P thief during 4 hours of solo queue yesterday?

Because the game isn’t only about pvp

style.6173:

Building a weaponset that is only good for PvE (and not even the best there) makes no sense.

Do you use S/P in PvE and WvW? If not then listen to the people that main it. It really is fine as it is right now.

And yet the same can be said about D/P having no place in PvE, but being good in PvP.

Not everything can be perfectly balanced everywhere. This change to Pistol Whip would make it worse in PvE. And yes, it IS the best set in PvE for all things except bosses (and it’s not bad vs bosses as well).

When was the last time anet listened to thieves players? (other than complete and utter rage over vigor + revealed nerf in pve which took weeks to fix) Besides, anet revealing all their cards shows that they won’t change anything and won’t care about thief players.

Healing signet/warrior dps is overpowered but it only took anet months to nerf it.

Kurr.4179:

And yet the same can be said about D/P having no place in PvE, but being good in PvP.

Not everything can be perfectly balanced everywhere. This change to Pistol Whip would make it worse in PvE. And yes, it IS the best set in PvE for all things except bosses (and it’s not bad vs bosses as well).

Actually vs any boss you need to stack for (thinking AC) then yah it is the best set for some bosses as well. Then again so is P/P. It really is situational.

What I know is this could be a buff in PvP but will likely end up being spam 3 twice to land anything. It really doesn’t make all that much sense because flurry and 100B root as well the skill is actually well balanced vs other like it. If they upped the stun to something that could round up with Sigil of Paralyzation there could be a decent PvP buff there. My concern is they will quite literally buff it and nerf it a few months down the line like they did with S/D.

PW is pretty good for PvE, bad for PvP still.

PW is far from bad in pvp if you build for it. Running a bursty/evade build you can take down squishy classes in one or two pistol whips and you can guarantee that you’re at least in range for it with steal. Obviously this is predictable and better players will tumble the second they see you start casting PW from far away but still, great for getting the jump on people like backstab thieves or staff eles who are hanging around the outskirts of a point.

squeezebag.4618:

bad for PvP still.

I lol’d. Pistol whip is performing admirably after multiple revisions. The shortcomings of S/P aren’t even tied to it.

It’s weird people feel S/P is bad in PvP, but that aside ANet said they were thinking about making the skill a two part skill like Flanking Strike and Larcenous Strike. That’s what I took away from the info at least. A change like that would only be a nerf if you couldn’t queue up the evading flurry if you didn’t connect with the pistol whip.

Shockwave.1230:

It’s weird people feel S/P is bad in PvP, but that aside ANet said they were thinking about making the skill a two part skill like Flanking Strike and Larcenous Strike. That’s what I took away from the info at least. A change like that would only be a nerf if you couldn’t queue up the evading flurry if you didn’t connect with the pistol whip.

My issue with it at least is that this change is not only completely useless and serves no real purpose, but it just cements the idea of thieves spamming skills. Thieves already have a major stigma regarding skill spamming. Whether it be complaining about heartseeker spam, 2 spamming, PW spamming, evade spamming, stealth spamming, really anything the thief can do, if they do it more than once a minute everyone shouts spamming. The last thing we need is to actually have to spam pistol whip just to get it to work as it does now.

If it isn’t broken don’t fix it. But I suppose it should be said if its balanced already, for the love of god don’t try to balance it because chances are it will end up royally screwed up in either direction. If its made too OP it’ll be changed in a matter of weeks. If it’s broken to the point of uselessness, probably won’t be changed for months.

I concur,

Am happy.

Shockwave.1230:

A change like that would only be a nerf if you couldn’t queue up the evading flurry if you didn’t connect with the pistol whip.

That is my major concern. If you have to proc the stun in order to get the flurry, the skill would lose a lot of it’s value as a clutch evade.

After the addition of a cast time to the second sword skill, I found that it was next to impossible to creatively combo the teleport with other skills, and that was a large part of my fun in S/D. So now, after playing S/D since betas, I’ve finally tried switching to S/P. Any more hits to the ingenuity of sword mainhand will probably result in me rerolling classes.

PW is okay the way it is now, but may indeed be better with this new change. As long as the ini cost remains consistent with the current build this may indeed be a buff to the build. With the stun and slashes separate is much better than locking yourself into a full PW when your enemy runs off. This gives you the option to stun position yourself and then sword slash. Or if you want to just use it as a stun. I believe that Anet is just trying to do something about the way it locks us into the sword slash animation.

But it makes sense that it would lock you down. It would be OP if you could move during the evading portion and chances are if you land the stun in the first place you’ll at least get some dmg out of the flurry. All this really accomplishes is thieves will probably spam the hell out of 3 with sword/pistol in order to make the time between the two parts negligible because the longer you wait in between the two, the less damage you’ll do as the stun wears off and they move away. It just seem like a pointless change with no real purpose but I suppose we’ll have to see the find detail of how the skill performs(lag will be a huge factor) and the tiny intricacies that emerge when the attack is split such as the time in between if you are spamming 3, the delay between when the stun icon becomes the flurry, etc.

TheGuy.3568:

style.6173:

Building a weaponset that is only good for PvE (and not even the best there) makes no sense.

Do you use S/P in PvE and WvW? If not then listen to the people that main it. It really is fine as it is right now.

sword pistol is wonderfull right now.. However id like to remind you that separating the stun and the flurry might not be as much of a nerf as you might think and thus for 3 reason

1. well still be able to chain the two move togueter even if they are separated. and prety much at the same speed
2. Pistol whip will now proc an easy low cost interupt wich you can pull in for nearly nothing!
3. Youl now be able to place your flurry at the right moment (like when the target is webed by a venom), so better damage overall for every thief in pvp and better initiative management.

In the end id say its not a nerf but rather a buff

kyubi.3620:

TheGuy.3568:

style.6173:

Building a weaponset that is only good for PvE (and not even the best there) makes no sense.

Do you use S/P in PvE and WvW? If not then listen to the people that main it. It really is fine as it is right now.

sword pistol is wonderfull right now.. However id like to remind you that separating the stun and the flurry might not be as much of a nerf as you might think and thus for 3 reason

1. well still be able to chain the two move togueter even if they are separated. and prety much at the same speed
2. Pistol whip will now proc an easy low cost interupt wich you can pull in for nearly nothing!
3. Youl now be able to place your flurry at the right moment (like when the target is webed by a venom), so better damage overall for every thief in pvp and better initiative management.

In the end id say its not a nerf but rather a buff

Just gonna leave this here for you and this. Take the time and read my post if you are going to quote me.

I can’t see the nerf seriously. Am I missing something? Its like I just have to press twice but can change my mind if I want to. o.o’’

Xyonon.3987:

I can’t see the nerf seriously. Am I missing something? Its like I just have to press twice but can change my mind if I want to. o.o’’

There are 2 potential nerfs. The first is is you miss the stun you are not allowed to follow with the evade. Meaning to use the evade defensive you absolutely must land the stun. In many cases PW can be used to avoid incoming damage vs actually doing anything else. Depending on how they plan to change it it would just be a survival nerf.

The other is the initiative cost. We have seen this story play out with S/D. So the first concern is they will mess with the initiative cost. Given how cheap a stun would be at 3 initiative they would likely have to.

More doom and gloom actually stems from the likely buff that would lead to an eventual nerf. Since the skill has been buffed to usefulness you will see many thieves say leave it aloe for the sake o not needing to nerf it in the future. This is not the well wait and see balance warrior gets (speaking truth not a warrior bash) we get quick balance patch to nerf our skills. It has been that way for a long time. I think many thieves who have been around a while can see the writing on the wall and rather not get nerfed after a buff.

I already know what I would do if Pistol Whip was a two part skill. I’m making an assumption that if you queue the flurry back to back with the pistol whip the skill would still function as is in regard to timeing, I’m also assuming the stun duration wouldn’t change.

Scenario 1 – Two part skill without requiring on hit pistol whip to trigger flurry

• Pre-fight I’d usually burn the stun to have the flurry on hand, since sword 2 immobilizes for longer than the stun stays active it makes more since to immobilize and flurry
• I’d Pistol whip then auto attack chain, since the auto attack chain has more dps and is mobile. I’d save the flurry for defensive situations. This would lead to me utilizing Black Powder and Headshot more frequently, since I have the initiative to do it.

Scenario 2 – Two part skill requiring on hit pistol whip to trigger flurry

• I’d Pistol whip then auto attack chain, since the auto attack chain has more dps and is mobile. I’d save the flurry for defensive situations. This would lead to me utilizing Black Powder and Headshot more frequently, since I have the initiative to do it.
• Big nerf to survivability here if the flurry in unavailable, especially harmful for holding point when overwhelmed and waiting for help to arrive.

Those are the primary buffs that would come out of splitting the skill (1 is obviously the same between both scenarios). The question is, does Pistol Whip itself need a nerf to compensate? (Not talking about changing sword or Pistol skills, those impact other builds, just talking about Pistol Whip).

I could see them adding a 1 initiative cost and have a 3|3 split, though as a thief I hope that doesn’t happen, because that would take away from my mindless mid capture point PW spam to hold point and apply pressure during team fights, but that’s really all it would take away for me honestly.

I really hope they make the change, but make it without coming back and nerfing things other than pistol whip or nerfing pistol whip beyong the 3|3 initiative split, as a result of the two additional benefits available.

I agree completely with TheGuy’s latest post. The set is actually perfect right now and buffing it is going to end up with a nerf to Pistol Whip. It’s not a question of if, it’s a question of when, just as happened to S/D with the unnecessary nerf to FS/LS.

Please, leave Pistol Whip alone, it’s actually perfect as it is now.

TheGuy.3568:

kyubi.3620:

TheGuy.3568:

style.6173:

Building a weaponset that is only good for PvE (and not even the best there) makes no sense.

Do you use S/P in PvE and WvW? If not then listen to the people that main it. It really is fine as it is right now.

sword pistol is wonderfull right now.. However id like to remind you that separating the stun and the flurry might not be as much of a nerf as you might think and thus for 3 reason

1. well still be able to chain the two move togueter even if they are separated. and prety much at the same speed
2. Pistol whip will now proc an easy low cost interupt wich you can pull in for nearly nothing!
3. Youl now be able to place your flurry at the right moment (like when the target is webed by a venom), so better damage overall for every thief in pvp and better initiative management.

In the end id say its not a nerf but rather a buff

Just gonna leave this here for you and this. Take the time and read my post if you are going to quote me.

Im just saying it wont be a nerf if they make it a 2 move spell. You say its fine then good it will STILL be fine after that. People might wine but im always happy when anet actualy makes some of my skill better. Asuming they will nerf it right after they up it is pure paranoia

kyubi.3620:

TheGuy.3568:

kyubi.3620:

TheGuy.3568:

style.6173:

Building a weaponset that is only good for PvE (and not even the best there) makes no sense.

Do you use S/P in PvE and WvW? If not then listen to the people that main it. It really is fine as it is right now.

sword pistol is wonderfull right now.. However id like to remind you that separating the stun and the flurry might not be as much of a nerf as you might think and thus for 3 reason

1. well still be able to chain the two move togueter even if they are separated. and prety much at the same speed
2. Pistol whip will now proc an easy low cost interupt wich you can pull in for nearly nothing!
3. Youl now be able to place your flurry at the right moment (like when the target is webed by a venom), so better damage overall for every thief in pvp and better initiative management.

In the end id say its not a nerf but rather a buff

Just gonna leave this here for you and this. Take the time and read my post if you are going to quote me.

Im just saying it wont be a nerf if they make it a 2 move spell. You say its fine then good it will STILL be fine after that. People might wine but im always happy when anet actualy makes some of my skill better. Asuming they will nerf it right after they up it is pure paranoia

It isn’t like I am the only person to come to this conclusion. It is far from paranoia and pretty kitten logical. Many of thieves here who actually play S/P already realize how to make it “OP” with just auto attack. Since the skill works well as it is there really is no need to change it. They literally after a year just fixed the after cast to make it useful. I rather see it left alone then made “OP” and nerfed into the ground. While many players love when endless buffs come in if you read the writing on the wall long enough you realize some buffs are quite literally a set up for a nerf.

Listen this is the thief thread we have been through this before. Paranoia vs learning from the past? Fool us once shame on you. Fool us twice shame on us.

I agree with the general sentiment here. I would like to see Pistol Whip turned into two skills, but I don’t trust ArenaNet to actually do it properly, so I’d prefer that they just leave it as-is.

Id rather risk the wrath of the noobs and the idiot rather the refuse a boost out of fear of something that may not happen. Proceed with the fix anet just please be carefull as not to wreck the spec doing it.

Are ranger affraid of getting a buff because if they do people will start to rage about their loot bag behing able to fight back?! Are we affraid to get buffed in pvp because some nobody is gunna QQ that we are to strong?! Well know what before they even call on a nerf for us those guys should be nerfed in the first place for behing so hard to kill to begin with that we need a buff to claim the same level of effectiveness as the warrior in the game. Give me more power! If those guys have to complain about us then maybe they should look at what they can do to beat us in the first place. Noobs need to die and learn rather then cry about another player outplaying them trought talent and actual real play and i wont rest until the very last warrior is trampled and screaming under the treat of a poisoned dagger. Thief deserve to inspire fear, we are the shadowy class that play the cheap trick and scare people of running alone. A guy seeing me shouldnt be saying HEY ANOTHER LOOTBAG, but rather oh darn i need to keep watch on this one or ill likely die.

kyubi.3620:

-snip-

You are ranting at this point. Warrior as it is right now is “OP” for a number of reasons. However, none of them meaning that this class or any other needs a boost rather than tweaking the way some traits and skills work for that class.

Pistol whip as it is fine. Unnecessary buffs are how the trend of OP builds get started (see skull crack). It really isn’t about fearing a buff and more about having played long enough on enough classes to understand balance. Looking at the big picture it is like getting a buff no one asked for after we get the buff we begged to get for over a year. It was kitten like this that got me to quit warrior.

I read in your sig you have every class at 80 and are a dungeon master but I think you really need to look at the big picture. The game is not balanced in the vacuum that is thief is warrior. there are 6 other classes and I know some classes simply would not be able to deal with this change in PvP especially group play. The whiners you speak of are also paying customers and whether you like or not they will express their opinions.

For many off us it just simply makes more sense to leave the skills with it’s current pros and cons rather than open up another can of worms. If you haven’t noticed this class has had heat for its entire life time.

I am going to ask do you main S/P thief? If not you should listen to understand vs listening to respond. Yes it could be a buff but it is literally unnecessary in PvE and PvP.

rly could say it again and again
are you rly that focused on such an expensive skill?

I mean, Splitting into 2 skills will give you more hit and run Options, it will also increase your Option to manage inititative bar when not having 15 init at all.
Also they said nothing about increasing aftercast times or else, but to get real they said something about increasing stun Duration on dec 10th patch notes.
It could also be very possible to simple double pushing 3,3 to gain same effect like the PW now.

I approve the Change.

My thief is S/P acrobatics so yea i know and understand the move mechanics and as it is right now it would actualy help the build that the stun and the flurry be separated into two defrent effect. There is a slight time between the bash and the flurry where you are vulnerable to hits and making this ability a two tap move would reduce the impact of that lag time unlike sword/dagger wich was 100% dodging when using its 3 before they made it into a 2 move combo.

TheGuy.3568:

kyubi.3620:

TheGuy.3568:

kyubi.3620:

TheGuy.3568:

style.6173:

Building a weaponset that is only good for PvE (and not even the best there) makes no sense.

Do you use S/P in PvE and WvW? If not then listen to the people that main it. It really is fine as it is right now.

sword pistol is wonderfull right now.. However id like to remind you that separating the stun and the flurry might not be as much of a nerf as you might think and thus for 3 reason

1. well still be able to chain the two move togueter even if they are separated. and prety much at the same speed
2. Pistol whip will now proc an easy low cost interupt wich you can pull in for nearly nothing!
3. Youl now be able to place your flurry at the right moment (like when the target is webed by a venom), so better damage overall for every thief in pvp and better initiative management.

In the end id say its not a nerf but rather a buff

Just gonna leave this here for you and this. Take the time and read my post if you are going to quote me.

Im just saying it wont be a nerf if they make it a 2 move spell. You say its fine then good it will STILL be fine after that. People might wine but im always happy when anet actualy makes some of my skill better. Asuming they will nerf it right after they up it is pure paranoia

It isn’t like I am the only person to come to this conclusion. It is far from paranoia and pretty kitten logical. Many of thieves here who actually play S/P already realize how to make it “OP” with just auto attack. Since the skill works well as it is there really is no need to change it. They literally after a year just fixed the after cast to make it useful. I rather see it left alone then made “OP” and nerfed into the ground. While many players love when endless buffs come in if you read the writing on the wall long enough you realize some buffs are quite literally a set up for a nerf.

Listen this is the thief thread we have been through this before. Paranoia vs learning from the past? Fool us once shame on you. Fool us twice shame on us.

Necromancers and their debacle with Dhuumfire are all nodding in agreement over this.

TChalla.7146:

Necromancers and their debacle with Dhuumfire are all nodding in agreement over this.

Necro is the only class I haven’t played a lot or leveled to 80. So I usually won’t comment there except for the fact I think power necros need more mobility since they aren’t playing attrition builds. That being said I do not know about the Dhuumfire nerf. So far they have removed some bleeds and have already nerfed it some to compensate for the passive condi. It is a pretty heavy investment for a condi builds to go that far into spite for one trait (condi duration is there I know but the other trait just aren’t that good.)

Lets be honest here a sec. Power necro wont touch if since close to death is there and if the trait is that big of an investment I don’t see the point in getting it. Death shroud toggling is mostly for power necros getting burst out. So the change will probably just kill the trait altogether. I think condi is general are OP as hell and signet of spite should have been looked at long ago. That being said nerfing a class this much based on one with that type of cost to get is just senseless.

If it was me I likely leave it as it is a focus on the number of condition spiked out at once vs nerfing the burning. If I was going to nerf it I would at least bring it down to master tier so you at least keep it useful, and move training of the master up. Whether MM uses it or not nerfs to petting zoos appease the masses.

All that being said I do not play the class or like condi heavy builds. So you can take what I say with a grain a salt.

TChalla.7146:

Necromancers and their debacle with Dhuumfire are all nodding in agreement over this.

I was thinking that this was sort of a cool idea until people mentioned that it might end up with the flanking strike treatment as well.

As for the necro thing and also looking at the changes to vigor and S/X #2 last time….. It seems like they balance in a vacuum rather than verses the other professions.

I’ve been seeing it more in Solo queue, but d/p trickery still seems apex for most comps.

TheGuy.3568:

TChalla.7146:

Necromancers and their debacle with Dhuumfire are all nodding in agreement over this.

Necro is the only class I haven’t played a lot or leveled to 80. So I usually won’t comment there except for the fact I think power necros need more mobility since they aren’t playing attrition builds. That being said I do not know about the Dhuumfire nerf. So far they have removed some bleeds and have already nerfed it some to compensate for the passive condi. It is a pretty heavy investment for a condi builds to go that far into spite for one trait (condi duration is there I know but the other trait just aren’t that good.)

Lets be honest here a sec. Power necro wont touch if since close to death is there and if the trait is that big of an investment I don’t see the point in getting it. Death shroud toggling is mostly for power necros getting burst out. So the change will probably just kill the trait altogether. I think condi is general are OP as hell and signet of spite should have been looked at long ago. That being said nerfing a class this much based on one with that type of cost to get is just senseless.

If it was me I likely leave it as it is a focus on the number of condition spiked out at once vs nerfing the burning. If I was going to nerf it I would at least bring it down to master tier so you at least keep it useful, and move training of the master up. Whether MM uses it or not nerfs to petting zoos appease the masses.

All that being said I do not play the class or like condi heavy builds. So you can take what I say with a grain a salt.

My original post was basically simply an agreement with what was said about getting buffed and then getting nerfed to hell because of the buff.

Necromancers got Dhuumfire, which was supposed to be a buff. The necromancers themselves didn’t like it because they knew it was overpowered and they would soon get hit with the nerf hammer. And they certainly did. The strange thing is that they nerfed a ton and didn’t touch Dhuumfire for a long time. Now they’re finally trying to correct what was actually wrong to begin with, so necromancers are worse off than they had been before Dhuumfire.

Another split skill?
I hated when elementalist’s magnetic grasp was turned from a fun fast skill into a boring skill whose second attack has no use because the immoblize is gone by the time the leap is done because of the short time it takes for the skill button to change+ lag, and how slow a leap is compared to the old sliding animation.

I do not want this style of change to happen to pistol whip as well. Pistol whip is a nice skill, but by splitting it, because of the skill button having to change, it will be impossible to use the flurry soon enough to get good use out of the stun without making the stun overpowered. It will be many times worse with even a tiny bit of lag.
I would consider this to be a nerf to the weaponset. Not a power nerf, but a usability nerf.
After it becomes clunky to use and prone to lag, someone will find some way to abuse only the best parts of the skill, and then it will take several power nerfs.

I used to love flanking strike. It was fun trying to move in the right way so the second hit would land for large damage, and using another skill or dodging would interrupt it. It required skill, and was fun to use, but then it got split. The best damage from the skill was separated from the main move, so timing was no longer needed to do more than dodge. It became a skilless move.

I think of it like I would a warrior’s killshot. Would it be fun to fight against if the skill was split with the long charge up as the first skill, then the shot itself as the second skill to be used at any time with little warning? It would not feel like a fun fluid skill to use, and would feel unfair to fight against.

I have not yet seen any skill split that was a good change. All I’ve seen is magnetic grasp becoming boring and clunky to use, and flanking strike becoming boring and overpowered without requiring any timing anymore. Please do not give this horrible treatment to my last favorite thief weapon set as well. I’ve already lost two of some of my favorite skills because of splits.

the problem is FS buff lead to the eventual destruction of the S/D set so i guess people have reason to fear the PW buff

Excalibur.9748:

the problem is FS buff lead to the eventual destruction of the S/D set so i guess people have reason to fear the PW buff

as anet does with anythign good.

anet would rather ahve a bunchy of mediocre classes w/ mediocre skills thana bunch of good classes with good skills. bc then the outcome relies on the better player and not who has the most passive skills/defense and room for error.