Guild Wars 2

can’t view due to 49th post, test posting to see if this fixes it

Anyone saying that its hard or time consuming for a mesmer to setup a three clone shatter hasn’t played the profession. Its two button presses…three if you count the shatter.

its near impossible to factor in stealth as mitigation as its pure chance/choice dmg. if u stay near the dmg is 100% if you run away its 0 or almost 0. everytime a thief stealths there is usually 1-2seconds they take dmg….after that its basically a choice to either keep fighting or take a break and try again. so as mitigation goes there isnt really mitigation when it comes to stealth….just a choice of to attack or fall back/try again when ready . i get what you mean…i mean if u go in stealth for 12 seconds ….5 people could do 150k dmg to you….but doesnt mean that you mitigated 150k…. its very hard to count it. a good guardian still rarely loses to a thief. i play thief as my main and guardian as my 2ndary.

there is only 2 skills that have positive evade times for thieves . Roll for initiative and withdraw. both roll backwards. in order for an evade attack to save from dmg it has to have an animation/recovery time less than the actual evade. for instance. death blossom takes about 1 second from leaving the ground to landing. the actual evade time is only 1/4 of a second. so you have 25% of the move evading and 75% of the move allowing you to take dmg/stopping you from dodging/invising etc. basicaly you avoid 1 attack you get hit by 1 attack and break even . thieves have the best IN COMBAT mobility and tied for 2nd best sprint/str8 distance speed. and again….while in stealth ur not doing dmg….and your not using CCs etc….while a guardian has block/aegis/retaliation/heals going on…hes still attacking. so factor that in too. thats a HUGE + for guardians.

anyway gnite all. gf eyeballin me

Miserymachine.7512:

Anyone saying that its hard or time consuming for a mesmer to setup a three clone shatter hasn’t played the profession. Its two button presses…three if you count the shatter.

It’s not very hard to land, but is definitely harder than Steal CnD Backstab. In addition, to deal the same amount of damage you have to burst with more than one shatter, which takes a longer time to pull off, or use Mirror Images (a stun breaker)

To those who compare stealth with damage mitigation, unless someone is speced and traited for that it remains a 2 at worst. Stealth isn’t the divine end-all for thieves, it is a visual defense and a decent visual defense against bad players.

Stealth in itself doesn’t mitigate damage in the slightest. There isn’t a trait that increases our toughness or grants protection while in stealth. It may take away a few conditions every 3 seconds but it doesn’t prevent me from getting them or reduces the amount of damage they inflict if they inflict anything at all.

Actually zacchary you are wrong. There are actually many attacks in the game that cannot hit a thief that has stealthed. I will give you a hint as to the kinds of attacks they are. Have you ever hit a stealthed thief with crossfire? How about body shot, vital shot? Or maybe long range shot? Scepter autoattack? A fireball from a staff ele? What about killshot? Or any of the warrior’s rifle attacks apart from volley? You get the point.

And there is NO class that can reduce condition damage. They can only cleanse it, which the thief can as well.

Revealed Removal wouldn’t be OP if the enemy can simply lay down a trap that unstealths you. Revealed is what ruins many traits and ruins thieves in pve.

Just when I thought that your suggestions couldn’t get any worse you crap out this gem.

Good job.

Teamkiller.4315:

Actually zacchary you are wrong. There are actually many attacks in the game that cannot hit a thief that has stealthed. I will give you a hint as to the kinds of attacks they are. Have you ever hit a stealthed thief with crossfire? How about body shot, vital shot? Or maybe long range shot? Scepter autoattack? A fireball from a staff ele? What about killshot? Or any of the warrior’s rifle attacks apart from volley? You get the point.

And there is NO class that can reduce condition damage. They can only cleanse it, which the thief can as well.

Have you ever stealthed and then get hit with ranged? I sure have. You know how much damage I didn’t take from the attack? 0. Would my enemy ever know if it damaged me? No, because they don’t look at their target’s HP once they re-target me.

Stealth prevents numbers from popping up when the stealthed target gets hit. If a player used a little common sense, they would be able to damage a thief regardless of transparency.

It only grants them Invulnerability, however, if the player sucks and has no clue wtf stealth is.

EDIT: And sure I would classify the condi removal trait of stealth as a form of damage mitigation but it still does not reduce the amount of damage I take (see Mitigate). It helps get rid of things that would damage me further.

Stop pretending you know how stealth works.

Zacchary.6183:

Have you ever stealthed and then get hit with ranged? I sure have.

Good god man have you no shame?

Stealth. Breaks. Targeting.

Go ahead and show me a ranger hitting you with a crossfire that is fired at you AFTER you stealth. Or anything other attack that REQUIRES a target. No, I don’t mean channeled attacks like volley rapid fire or binding blade.

You HAVE you admit that there are certain attacks that cannot hit a stealthed player because they require a target.

Teamkiller.4315:

Zacchary.6183:

Have you ever stealthed and then get hit with ranged? I sure have.

Good god man have you no shame?

Stealth. Breaks. Targeting.

Go ahead and show me a ranger hitting you with a crossfire that is fired at you AFTER you stealth. Or anything other attack that REQUIRES a target. No, I don’t mean channeled attacks like volley rapid fire or binding blade.

You HAVE you admit that there are certain attacks that cannot hit a stealthed player because they require a target.

Then don’t use abilities that require a target. How hard is that?

You don’t need to target people to shoot projectiles unless the ability requires it. There is a good chance that if the Thief is running to your right and you sweep right that you will hit the Thief. If it is something that shoots multiple projectiles in a straight line, it is possible to hit the Thief multiple times.

Zacchary.6183:

Teamkiller.4315:

Zacchary.6183:

Have you ever stealthed and then get hit with ranged? I sure have.

Good god man have you no shame?

Stealth. Breaks. Targeting.

Go ahead and show me a ranger hitting you with a crossfire that is fired at you AFTER you stealth. Or anything other attack that REQUIRES a target. No, I don’t mean channeled attacks like volley rapid fire or binding blade.

You HAVE you admit that there are certain attacks that cannot hit a stealthed player because they require a target.

Then don’t use abilities that require a target. How hard is that?

You don’t need to target people to shoot projectiles unless the ability requires it. There is a good chance that if the Thief is running to your right and you sweep right that you will hit the Thief. If it is something that shoots multiple projectiles in a straight line, it is possible to hit the Thief multiple times.

Tell you what. I’ll shadow refuge, and you try to hit me with crossfire. You get 10g for each time you hit me with crossfire. If you can’t hit me, you pay me 60g (considering you can get about 24 crossfire shots in the 12 seconds of shadow refuge, hitting 25% would even out the odds)

Wanna take this bet?

You know… I posted 2 links which I am going to safely assume you never checked. So I am going to take a picture, highlight my point and you are going to stare at it until it clicks in your head.

Zacchary.6183:

You know… I posted 2 links which I am going to safely assume you never checked. So I am going to take a picture, highlight my point and you are going to stare at it until it clicks in your head.

CANNOT BE TARGETED

I will ask ONCE AGAIN that you do realize there are MANY skills that REQUIRE a target to damage yes? Like lightning strike? Ride the Lightning? Rush? Dragon’s tooth? In the case of some of these skills you cannot even activate it without a target.

So you going to ever hit me with that crossfire while I’m stealth?

THEN USE SOMETHING ELSE.

Zacchary.6183:

THEN USE SOMETHING ELSE.

TELL ME WHAT A SHORTBOW/LONGBOW RANGER CAN USE?

Barrage? The wannabe meteor-shower attack that roots you while the thief goes in for a backstab? That’s literally the ONLY skill on your weapon bar that you can use to hit a thief in stealth. You know what that does? It’s 90% weapon skill mitigation while the thief is in stealth.

Holy kitten dude are you so ardent about your defense of thieves that you cannot even admit that stealth is a form of damage mitigation? You think that a GOOD player is going to land literally 100% of their hits against a stealthed thief? You think good players can actually HIT stealthed thieves as if they weren’t stealthed? ANY hit that is avoided by breaking targeting, which makes many many weapon skills useless AND makes hitting the thief a guessing game. You seriously going to maintain that stealth doesn’t mitigate damage?

All I can say is, I hope Anet doesn’t listen to a single one of your suggestion cause your ideas on balance rival that of Daecollo’s.

Then.
Use.
Something.
Else.

I am done trying to get it through your kitten head that there is NO DAMAGE MITIGATION to stealth.

Zacchary.6183:

Then.
Use.
Something.
Else.

You’re not getting it. Stealth mitigates damage. It isn’t an issue of using something else. There are some things you CANNOT use and almost all AOEs are either really really short range or on some form of a cooldown. They CANNOT be spammed, this means that stealth effectively shuts down a lot of damage.

The issue isn’t about damaging a thief, trust me I have no problems doing that on any toon, especially not my own thief. The problem is YOU CAN’T ADMIT STEALTH MITIGATES DAMAGE even though it blatantly shuts down a huge proportion of skills that exist in gw2.

Edit: Fine. You say stealth doesn’t mitigate damage? Then thief should lose against warriors 100% of the time because they can’t win an HP race against a warrior. Right? Is that what happens right now in wvw and PvP? Oh wait.

Zacchary.6183:

Then.
Use.
Something.
Else.

I am done trying to get it through your kitten head that there is NO DAMAGE MITIGATION to stealth.

This argument is going nowhere. You are technically right because stealth doesn’t reduce any damage.

However, certain skills (most notably Mesmer illusions) cannot be cast without a target, and many others will have an almost 100% chance of missing. Of course, the obvious solution is to use skills that easily hit stealthed Thieves, such as Guardian GS pull, but there aren’t a lot of such abilities.

Would you really waste an ability with a long cooldown for the slight chance that you might hit a stealthed Thief? I certainly won’t, unless there is a pretty high chance that they are there. Therefore, it effectively reduces the damage you take, because 1) The enemy player can easily miss and 2) nobody uses their high-damage skills on a non-immobilized stealthed Thief.

This is what people mean when they say stealth reduces damage. Does Blink or Cleansing Fire stop any actual damage? They don’t. Yet every single D/D elementalist takes at least one, because mobility/stun breakers (like stealth) indirectly reduce the damage you take.

Zacchary.6183:

……….in itself doesn’t mitigate damage in the slightest. There isn’t ……….

See that link? Click it.

Secondly, if you are wielding a ranged weapon it will more than likely have more ranged attacks (your auto being one). Imagine what a ranged attack with almost no cooldown can do!

EDIT: W/e I am done. If you guys can’t use a little logic to somewhat predict where the thief is going to be running in stealth, when he is going to be in attacking range of you or what attack he/she is going to use next then maybe you deserve the death. Thieves are challenging to use and face (if they are decent). You would be surprised what thinking a little outside the box can accomplish.

I am not as passionate about Gw2 as I was 2 month ago so, tbh i don’t care anymore…
devs may do whatever they want, I will not feel bad about it nor have another sleepless night.

This is a free to play game and if I chose to stop playing it for a wile and play something else that grants me more pleasure and fun, I will do that.

Once Gw2 feels enjoying and fun again, ill play Gw2.

For me, personally it still is fun to play so here I am. But i’m also playing another game now so i’m dividing my time between both, still spending more time in Gw2 then the other but that can easily change.

well i don’t care if it doesn’t affect pve where we suck too much already…

This is one of the worst ideas I’ve seen.

See that link? Click it.

Every definition under mitigate says that it makes the entity less severe or easier to deal with. YES STEALTH MAKES DAMAGE EASIER TO DEAL WITH as many many attacks won’t even work, AOE’s have a chance of missing, conditions are cleansed, the thief moves faster, and the thief himself can just run, that’s why it is considered part of a thief’s defense. Do you understand?

Secondly, if you are wielding a ranged weapon it will more than likely have more ranged attacks (your auto being one). Imagine what a ranged attack with almost no cooldown can do!

What?!?

EDIT: W/e I am done. If you guys can’t use a little logic to somewhat predict where the thief is going to be running in stealth, when he is going to be in attacking range of you or what attack he/she is going to use next then maybe you deserve the death. Thieves are challenging to use and face (if they are decent). You would be surprised what thinking a little outside the box can accomplish.

You are forgetting something really important, and that is the thief is not an AI, rather he is a human being who will react to your AOE locations because there are big red circles and try to avoid them, yes, EVEN IN STEALTH. If even ONE attack that would have hit him out of stealth doesn’t hit him IN stealth that counts as mitigating the damage because he avoided damage he would otherwise take.

Anyways, this entire thing is a huge PR ploy in semantics. You want the thief to seem underpowered by insisting that stealth doesn’t mitigate damage and that good players don’t care about stealth they will hit the thief anyways…I would you to find ONE player who can hit a thief with a dragon’s tooth, a non pre-cast iZerker, a lightning strike, any projectile attack, etc etc. Are those attacks above a significant portion of their respective builds’ dps? Yes, and being able to completely ignore them is HUGE in terms of damage mitigation. So stop, the thief has plenty of defense in stealth, and maybe, just maybe, YOU are the one who is incompetent.

According to your logic, the only way someone can have damage mitigation in that case would be the protection boon. Guess how many classes do not have access to that boon?

in the same way stealth mitigates dmg for theives its also dmg mitigation for the enemy….just another way of looking at it. so you could say thank you as an opponent ? yes a thief can move in to attack but soon as we do we are being hit with the enemys auto attack. and when BS hits at like what…30-35% success realistically per try…. :P a face stab is like 2300 dmg.

And you think 2,300 damage is low, travlane?

Also, I see you throwing out these percentages for how often backstabs land. Where are you getting these numbers from? They smell of fecal matter.

Travlane.5948:

in the same way stealth mitigates dmg for theives its also dmg mitigation for the enemy….just another way of looking at it. so you could say thank you as an opponent ? yes a thief can move in to attack but soon as we do we are being hit with the enemys auto attack. and when BS hits at like what…30-35% success realistically per try…. :P a face stab is like 2300 dmg.

funniest times are when i go into stealth and they start the auto attack dance while im realistically just standing there watching them. even when ive been out of stealth they are still there swinging around to which i casually walk away…

Removing revealed would make us OP in pve and spvp because you could avoid all damage while landing bs over and over.

Traps need to be compensated for a different way or traps need to target more than just stealth so that other classes are penalized as well.

tbh if they start bring in more and more direct counter mechanics to stealth they need to give stealth(or thieves in general) static and reliable defense to compensate for the fact that good players already all but ignore the mechanics currently before any 1-button counters.

yeah there has to be revealed. but these “:traps” IMO should not cause revealed. maybe a 1/4 stun at most.

or like i said before a humming red glow silhoutted around us or something

Teamkiller I think you’re getting confused.

Thieves do not have 150 points to spend and can’t spec into everything. They also don’t have 30 utilities slots or access to all their weapons sets at once.

Thieves who spec defensively won’t hit you as hard and glass cannon ones who do something like a 10k burst die real quick under fire, with something like 14k Hp and nothing to migrate the damage I’m sure my i-berserkers have taken half their health in one shot.

Caom.9251:

Teamkiller I think you’re getting confused.

Thieves do not have 150 points to spend and can’t spec into everything. They also don’t have 30 utilities slots or access to all their weapons sets at once.

Thieves who spec defensively won’t hit you as hard and glass cannon ones who do something like a 10k burst die real quick under fire, with something like 14k Hp and nothing to migrate the damage I’m sure my i-berserkers have taken half their health in one shot.

I think you’re the one getting confused.

I dare you to find a single post to Zachaary where I say anything that could warrant a response like this from use.

AFAIK the only thing I’ve been pointing out is stealth helps you avoid a lot of damage. Nothing else.

No with travalane you were complaining about how thieves have better defences then warriors with shadow rejuvenation. This was also when you were complaining about burst. Thieves with insane burst go cookie cutter 25/30/0/0/15 and have utilities that mostly help amplify that burst.

Caom.9251:

No with travalane you were complaining about how thieves have better defences then warriors with shadow rejuvenation.

I’ve never complained about thieves having better defenses than warriors, much less actually said that thieves have better defense than warriors. Go find a quote where I say this.

If you are having trouble, let me help you understand; he brought up HP values in order to justify warriors having higher defense and whatnot than thieves, I asked him why guardians are considered even better at defense if they have the same HP as thieves. If you can’t understand my point by now, I don’t think it’s worth conversing with you.

This was also when you were complaining about burst. Thieves with insane burst go cookie cutter 25/30/0/0/15 and have utilities that mostly help amplify that burst.

I’ve NEVER complained about thief burst. Go ahead and find the quote.

Again, let me help you.

https://www.google.com/search?q=complain&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Stating facts, like thief has highest Single Target burst, is not complaining. Travlane isn’t willing to admit that, I’m just telling him he’s wrong. I’d like to know where you think I’m complaining about their burst.

GOD NO. If you are good enough you can handle revealed and unexpected revealed. With no revealed debuff even the stupidest and most idiot thief would escape from everyone.

I want this class to reward you better the better you are.

Frenk.5917:

GOD NO. If you are good enough you can handle revealed and unexpected revealed. With no revealed debuff even the stupidest and most idiot thief would escape from everyone.

I want this class to reward you better the better you are.

Amen, Frenk. Come to Ehmry Bay’s TS sometime and chat with Xeviel and others in [GF]. It seems like you’d get along great :-)

@ Teamkiller (and I hope you read everything)

I am not trying to make the thief look either way or the other, I am correcting stupidity. You can still get hit in stealth. Wiki says it. I have tested it. If it doesn’t hit, then there is nothing to mitigate. Evasion ticks = mitigation. Block/protection/toughness-buffing/damage-reduction = mitigation. Flat out avoiding attacks =/= mitigation because there is NOTHING to mitigate.

There are no ticks or indication that anything is being mitigated because there is no interaction between the thief and the projectile’s damage. Therefore, zero mitigation. It can be called “targeting removal” or “damage avoidance” just like using someone as a meat shield vs. non-piercing attacks or sidestrafeing from non-seeking projectiles. The doesn’t change the fact that the guy can still take 100% of the hit.

Example…

I am a thief that uses p/p (secondary). If I am fighting another thief who decides to strafe right and stealth, I am going to switch to p/p, turn right and sweep with Unload. I might not hit him with the full Unload but I still hit him because my bullets are disappearing in mid air. Once he pops out of stealth, 70-80% of the time I will see him and I will concentrate on him until he dies.

Here is a fun bit of information… If I use SoM, I can tell if I am hitting him by just watching my healing ticks. I can also use those and the bullets to determine his position (which leads into aiming my shots or prepping a caltrop dodge). Just look at how much kitten you can do with a crappy signet, trait and weapon setup! None of them are even meant for that!

“But run behind you and backstab” won’t happen as often because if I use the weapons, signet and trait I will find him regardless of transparency. “But godmode!” is not as effective now that I know his game. “But reset!” won’t matter to me because he is my primary target until he dies.

That’s what happens when you use a little imagination and observation. That is the point I am trying to make but for some reason people aren’t seeing that. Stealth does not mitigate/reduce damage. If people would use their kittening imaginations then MAYBE they would increase their chances vs. stealthed targets.

“But DPS is kitten!” Yes, your DPS might not be as great but with imagination you can turn kittenty barrages into AoE, turn AoE into more devastating AoEs, traps > instant attacks, instant attacks > combo, basic attacks > debilitating finishers, etc. Nobody is going to believe me, though, because nobody is going to drop their ego and try them. I certainly have tried weird things and enjoyed every shutdown I have given out.

Lets give another example of this “Imagination”…

Out of the few MMOs I have played, I have always had one build that was either multi- purpose or meant for high single target damage. My build could have been total kitten overall, but I made it effective in more serious situations. One of those situations a good majority of the time tends to be those 1-2 subtle players who are greatly supporting their team without drawing attention.

It may not seem like they are a big problem, but most of the time they are making it hard for my team to kill anything (that’s if they are any good at it). THOSE are the people I kill first. The act of scapegoating them can halt support (if they decide to flee from me) which will allow my team to perform better. There is also that chance that very act could ruin a zerg because the lack of support causes the zerg to go from complacent to staggered/panicked due to their “cushion” ceasing to remain soft.

The fact is, if you use a little imagination you can excel with what you have. Most of the people on here lack that or refuse to use it. Vs. stealthed, yeah, my DPS might go from awesome to kitten but that doesn’t mean that I can’t still damage him. That damage, whether it be tiny or not, could decide a battle.

One of the problems are that people might complain that certain skills limit their ability to function when they never think to get around those skills. Instead, they point fingers and cry “OP”. But interaction is the husband of Karma and Karma is a kitten.

When it comes down to interaction, it takes 2 to tango. It rarely is one person’s fault because 99% of the time there were things both parties could’ve done to alleviate the problem. You limit yourselves more than everyone else. This is a fact of life.

But go ahead and call me incompetant. I am just a strategist that has been doing this kind of crap for 10 years.

There are no ticks or indication that anything is being mitigated because there is no interaction between the thief and the projectile’s damage. Therefore, zero mitigation.

Look, I already told you I’m not interested in semantics. If you can’t admit stealth helps the thief avoid damage (alleviation), which is the very definition of damage mitigation, it’s on you.

To address your first point:

Teamkiller.4315:

Why is this a bad thing? For the record, thieves have higher healing than warriors regarding most specs. Shadow’s rejuvenation and low CD heal per second, not to mention their massive uptime on stealth.

Also have you even looked at what you are typing?

The word choice you use shows obvious dissatisfaction with the thief compared to the other classes. You are clearly stating how the thief is much better then the other’s at what they do.

The way you phrased this makes it seem that the thief shouldn’t be capable of accomplishing such feats and thus you are making them appear as though they are much more superior to the other classes.

One more thing what premises do you make to come to a conclusion that a thief has the highest burst? You make several points how the other classes burst is harder to pull off but does that mean the thief’s burst is higher? You also factor in alot of variables (dodging, hitting the rear of the target etc.) in one scenario but not for another, you cannot come to valid conclusion with this.

Thieves that act like stealth is their lifeblood are not in the top tier and nowhere close to playing that well.

If you watch top tier thieves, they are playing their thieves somewhat like you see good rangers be played. They have realized that have an enormous amount of evasion and they use it. When that evasion is starting to “run dry” they make use of stealth to buy them time for it to refill / cooldown as well as maybe open things up for a bit of burst or get some space to buy even more time.

Also have you even looked at what you are typing?

So you declined my challenge to provide quotes.

The word choice you use shows obvious dissatisfaction with the thief compared to the other classes. You are clearly stating how the thief is much better then the other’s at what they do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

You seem pretty desperate to find something incriminating to argue against you’re trying to attack the TONE of my post. LOL

You should be attacking Travlane, he’s one one who’s EXPLICITLY saying that warriors are better, he even used some demented form of mathematics (for the record travlane, I’ve taken university level calculus, number theory, and linear algebra at an ivy league institution so insulting my math skills isn’t going to get you anywhere).

The way you phrased this makes it seem that the thief shouldn’t be capable of accomplishing such feats and thus you are making them appear as though they are much more superior to the other classes.

No, I didn’t.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Stop making up arguments and saying that I made them. I didn’t. I made a very specific and clear point; warriors having higher HP does not mean they have higher defense or sustainability than thieves.

One more thing what premises do you make to come to a conclusion that a thief has the highest burst? You make several points how the other classes burst is harder to pull off but does that mean the thief’s burst is higher? You also factor in alot of variables (dodging, hitting the rear of the target etc.) in one scenario but not for another, you cannot come to valid conclusion with this.

Yes? Thief has the mug C&D backstab combo. It has a higher damage multiplier than the mesmer’s burst and takes place in less time as well in addition to having utilities to increase damage (Assassin’s signet). Not to mention, it has an automatic disable in the form of basilisk venom. Not only is it easier to pull off, it does more damage.

Now, the drawbacks? There are plenty, no AOE, not invulnerable while channeling, broken with a stunbreak and a dodge whereas against the mesmer you need instant condition removal or invuln, and much longer of a cooldown to re-perform it, not to mention a thief that builds for this is generally far squishier than a mesmer that builds for it. However, does any of this change the fact that it still has higher burst? No, no it does not.

Teamkiller.4315:

There are no ticks or indication that anything is being mitigated because there is no interaction between the thief and the projectile’s damage. Therefore, zero mitigation.

Look, I already told you I’m not interested in semantics. If you can’t admit stealth helps the thief avoid damage (alleviation), which is the very definition of damage mitigation, it’s on you.

How about you admit that you are not as good as you think you are instead of picking at my comments?

It isn’t my fault you can’t make an educated guess at the thief’s path. If you feel like being lazy when the thief stealths, then mash your 1-skill and make a freaking cone of arrows. You are going to hit them.

Zacchary.6183:

Teamkiller.4315:

There are no ticks or indication that anything is being mitigated because there is no interaction between the thief and the projectile’s damage. Therefore, zero mitigation.

Look, I already told you I’m not interested in semantics. If you can’t admit stealth helps the thief avoid damage (alleviation), which is the very definition of damage mitigation, it’s on you.

How about you admit that you are not as good as you think you are instead of picking at my comments?

It isn’t my fault you can’t make an educated guess at the thief’s path. If you feel like being lazy when the thief stealths, then mash your 1-skill and make a freaking cone of arrows. You are going to hit them.

You fail to realize that there is an actual human player behind that thief who can see his opponent…and avoid taking predictable paths…and therefore damage…holy kitten dude.

How about you admit that you are not as good as you think you are instead of picking at my comments?

How does this even have to do with personal skill? I’m saying thief stealth mitigates damage, and you turn around and call me a bad guardian player (despite my 20k kills in wvw, rank 30 in spvp, 60% tourney win rate as paragon, etc etc, so you’re kinda wrong). Yeah, complete relevance there -_-

Zacchary, is there any other class in the game that fighting against involves “guessing where they are” as the best tactic ?

There is not. Even with Mesmers there are plenty of signs as to which is the correct one … and you can call target on them too.

Wow… just wow. You have not read a kitten thing I have written, have you.

Zacchary.6183:

Wow… just wow. You have not read a kitten thing I have written, have you.

yea, I have, and apparently you think mashing a 1 skill creates a cone of arrows on some profession that can hit a stealthed character with those arrows.

LOL.

Teamkiller.4315:

You seem pretty desperate to find something incriminating to argue against you’re trying to attack the TONE of my post. LOL

Teamkiller please don’t start on logical fallacies. You have already evoked Ad hominem in your statement while you were addressing me.

Also may I point out I did indeed quote something you said to address your previous point:

Why is this a bad thing? For the record, thieves have higher healing than warriors regarding most specs. Shadow’s rejuvenation and low CD heal per second, not to mention their massive uptime on stealth.

And to address your point on me making a “Straw Man” arguement, please look back at your previous posts on the other page:

Teamkiller.4315:

Whereas thieves can enter in stealth and avoid a massive proportion of the damage that a mesmer or a warrior would otherwise take to go on the offensive. They have the luxury of landing the first strike in each engagement, whereas the warrior and mesmer have to set up their bursts. In the case of warrior it is easier because they have utilities to raise their adrenaline to full, but they still have to gap close. Mesmers have to summon all clones and phantasms and then sword 2 to immobilize to do their burst.

You are clearly making it seem as though the thief is superior by playing down the other 2 classes. The thief must also sacrifice stealth to go on the offensive. The revealed debuff lasts for 3-4 seconds of which they must fight fair. A mesmer can use blurred frenzy, a mesmer can proc boons, a mesmer has clones which can double as meat shields.

Also what is the period of time the damage needs to be applied over for it to be considered burst?

Okay something is messed up with my comment

Edit: it’s been fixed now

Caom.9251:

Teamkiller please don’t start on logical fallacies. You have already evoked Ad hominem in your statement while you were addressing me.

Please familiarize yourself with what Ad Hominem is before accusing me of such a thing. As it stands I only made an attack on your character. I never made the attack on your character any of my arguments, hence it is not ad hominem.

Also may I point out I did indeed quote something you said to address your previous point:

That is a complaint? Hardly, it sounds far more like telling travlane that thieves have tools to deal with their low HP compared to warriors with high HP and not many tools to deal with losing it.

You are clearly making it seem as though the thief is superior by playing down the other 2 classes. The thief must also sacrifice stealth to go on the offensive. The revealed debuff lasts for 3-4 seconds of which they must fight fair. A mesmer can use blurred frenzy, a mesmer can proc boons, a mesmer has clones which can double as meat shields.

Also what is the period of time the damage needs to be applied over for it to be considered burst?

Again, not a complaint. It downplays the other two classes in comparison to burst because the thief is clearly better at it, which travlane does not dare admit. That is their purpose, that is their meta. Did I ever say that I think the thief is OP? That burst should be toned down? Did I EVER mention that warrior and mesmer bursts should be buffed? Did I make ANY statements in regards to changing balance?

No.

Never.