Guild Wars 2

As a thief, I always found Shadow’s Embrace to be a very powerful tool, especially considering what it can do. I also find that if you’re a Stealth-reliant thief, not having Shadow’s Embrace is a huge disadvantage because of how powerful it is. And for those thieves that don’t know, here:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow's_Embrace

This is a Tier I trait and one that is incredibly powerful as it removes a condition instantly and then a condition every 3s. What makes this powerful is that it works on CC conditions like Cripple and Immobilize, so it isn’t hard for a thief to throw down SR, or BlindingPowder and stealth their way out of a killzone after having one of these CC conditions applied to it, especially in 1v1, and that can be frustrating to a lot of players who are trying to kill this thief, including other thieves. Likewise, in a group fight where Conditions are thrown about nonstop (like in WvW zergs or PvE/Dungeons), the thief ends up taking a lot of damage very quickly and so isn’t very much preferred in these group settings.

My idea is to try and solve the issue of the thief too easily livable in a 1vX and too easily killed in group fights (XvX where X>1). Change Shadow’s Embrace so it does the following while in Stealth:

1. Reduce the duration of CC conditions like Cripple and Immobilize by 50%.
   Make the thief less likely to just get away in the event that it encounters a large group, but still have that chance.
2. Reduce the damage of other Conditions by 30%.
   Make the thief have a greater sustainability in larger fights and much more likely to be a boon to his teammates rather than a detriment.
3. A slight chance for glancing blows.
   A thief is hard to hit in Stealth, but when it does get it, the thief should at least be allowed a chance to not receive an overly punishing critical strike.

3 could be removed altogether, but the main ideas are in 1 and 2. And this might require some tweaks to Shadow Refuge, since it would benefit from this the most. What do you think?

TL;DR – Shadow’s Embrace shouldn’t have remove conditions on stealth, but reduction of damage and duration.

If all you’re concerned about is the removal rate, how about just not having the immediate removal but keeping the 3s interval removal, or the other way around?

Auesis.7301:

If all you’re concerned about is the removal rate, how about just not having the immediate removal but keeping the 3s interval removal, or the other way around?

Because that doesn’t fix the thief’s viability in a group fight and would, instead, make it far worse.

Agreed. However, I don’t see this ever happening. An Adept trait halving Cripple/Chill/Immobilise when we already have numerous ways to remove those conditions, and a huge flat reduction in condition damage? Every build ever would use at least 10 Shadow Arts. That doesn’t seem healthy.

I like it just fine the way it is and see no need for any kind of fix. That is what I think.

Looking at this makes me wonder what you think about ele. Saying that mostly cause embrace is one of the thief’s only viable way to clear condition in a fight. Hide in shadows? Please, once every 30s = dead thief. Shadowstep WOULD be good if the condi removal wasn’t just on the return. If it was 1 condition on in and out imo it would be much better.

Auesis.7301:

Agreed. However, I don’t see this ever happening. An Adept trait halving Cripple/Chill/Immobilise when we already have numerous ways to remove those conditions, and a huge flat reduction in condition damage? Every build ever would use at least 10 Shadow Arts. That doesn’t seem healthy.

You have HiS, Withdraw, RoI, and then Shadow’s Embrace to remove Cripple/Chill/Immobilise. You remove SE’s effects on removing these conditions altogether and force the thief to rely on the other skills to remove the CC. And it doesn’t have to be a huge damage reduction. It could be 10%,15%, 20%. Whatever it is, the effect is more powerfully felt in larger fights where conditions are thrown about and thereby improving the livability of the thief.

randomfightfan.4091:

Looking at this makes me wonder what you think about ele. Saying that mostly cause embrace is one of the thief’s only viable way to clear condition in a fight. Hide in shadows? Please, once every 30s = dead thief. Shadowstep WOULD be good if the condi removal wasn’t just on the return. If it was 1 condition on in and out imo it would be much better.

SE is used mostly by stealth heavy thieves x/D & D/P. And these thieves require to be in the thick of it at all times. It makes the D/P thief incredibly powerful just by itself. Also, the thief has the Signet of Agility that removes a condition for every ally in the area which also has a base cd of 30s and can be traited for less than that? Although, I do agree on the Shadowstep removing a condition on use.

Suralin.3947:

My idea is to try and solve the issue of the thief too easily livable in a 1vX and too easily killed in group fights (XvX where X>1). Change Shadow’s Embrace so it does the following while in Stealth:

1. Reduce the duration of CC conditions like Cripple and Immobilize by 50%.
   Make the thief less likely to just get away in the event that it encounters a large group, but still have that chance.
2. Reduce the damage of other Conditions by 30%.
   Make the thief have a greater sustainability in larger fights and much more likely to be a boon to his teammates rather than a detriment.
3. A slight chance for glancing blows.
   A thief is hard to hit in Stealth, but when it does get it, the thief should at least be allowed a chance to not receive an overly punishing critical strike.

3 could be removed altogether, but the main ideas are in 1 and 2. And this might require some tweaks to Shadow Refuge, since it would benefit from this the most. What do you think?

How does this solve the issue that you have identified to those who are not spec’d with SE?

All this does is kitten those who run SE.

I opt out of SE in favor of CiS because I find blind more useful and I carry HiS and RoI as my anti-condition/CC and I’m not having the issue that you have identified.

Thieves died from recklessness and mistakes, not because they didn’t spec’d SE.

Suralin.3947:

SE is used mostly by stealth heavy thieves x/D & D/P. And these thieves require to be in the thick of it at all times. It makes the D/P thief incredibly powerful just by itself. Also, the thief has the Signet of Agility that removes a condition for every ally in the area which also has a base cd of 30s and can be traited for less than that? Although, I do agree on the Shadowstep removing a condition on use.

Sorry but you don’t how signet of agility works. It removes 1 conditoin FROM every ally in the area. Thief still only gets 1 removed, same with everyone else affected. 1 condition removed, not a bajillion. If you don’t believe me then I implore you to go test it out. Lastly, for the thief being in the thick of things, it requires them to be an easy target. Sure they are stealth a lot and kind of bouncy, but you know where they are and can react accordingly.

Why would you want to take away thieves only access to condi removal?

Just drop burning over and over and you kill a thief lol.

how about people stop pretending to be thieves and asking for nerfs acting like honest people. our class is almost useless in wvw as is with all the nerfs….only viable build is venom share now. d/p is too fragile and sb trick shot nerfed. :P im going to give a few days on using larcenous. if it doesnt make the table flip to thieves being a force to watch at the very least im going to use guardian for now on. :/ btw i am a thief and i dont think shadow shot should be unblockable. the skill is very powerful as is….unlesss its a setup to nerf the mini blind field …perhaps?

WyldKat.4712:

I like it just fine the way it is and see no need for any kind of fix. That is what I think.

How about we just stop asking for Thief nerfs, eh? I don’t know about you guys but I’m sick of being nerfed. ;\

Incurafy.6329:

How about we just stop asking for Thief nerfs, eh? I don’t know about you guys but I’m sick of being nerfed. ;\

It wasn’t a nerf. But since this is the only view that people seem to take on suggestions or ideas unless it was a blatant buff without any drawbacks or trades, then it must be a nerf, neh? And of course, this guy has to be a non-thief because his idea is (from the apparent views of many thieves) a bad one that seems to just scream nerf, neh? Maybe it didn’t occur to you that this might have buffed Condition/Trap Bunker thieves? Removed an obvious advantage of the D/P thief? And left other builds alone? No? Okay. So glad to know everyone thought this through.