Guild Wars 2

It’s great and all that they’re going to…decrease the efficacy of our main stat (crit damage) therefore weakening thief more than any other class by a factor of OMFGwhy…I know it’s old news too, but…OMFGwhy do they continue to pick on thief and make it as impotent as a slaughterhouse cow?

Fun fact: a 10% overall drop in damage has exactly the same impact on your DPS as when First Strikes isn’t active.

Fun fact: all classes dmg is getting nerfed because of the crit dmg change

Carpboy.7145:

Fun fact: all classes dmg is getting nerfed because of the crit dmg change

Fun fact: Condition Classes dmg is not getting nerfed.

hihey.1075:

Carpboy.7145:

Fun fact: all classes dmg is getting nerfed because of the crit dmg change

Fun fact: Condition Classes dmg is not getting nerfed.

That is a very true and valid point, but i hate when people get all moans how only their class is affected and it will ruin them. I guess other classes can’t crit :/

Fun fact: the 10% less DPS is from a maxed out party, that means 25 might, 25 vuln, warr banners, frost spirit, and spotter. That will hardly have ANY impact on pvp and WvW.

Fun fact: If you’re running Celestial gear, it’s a 20% overall DPS nerf!

We really need to see the numbers. It’s assumed that ANet is talking about max-damage nonsense dungeon builds, but we need to see what actually happens with Ferocity first. While the Celestial fallout will be considerable if left alone, maybe they will re-jigger the stat budget on that armor in order to compensate (after all, they are doing it for the PvP gear).

Thief 2 stronk.

Carpboy.7145:

Fun fact: all classes dmg is getting nerfed because of the crit dmg change

fun fact: thief gets hit the hardest by this nerf.

seriously think about the larger picture

Travlane.5948:

Carpboy.7145:

Fun fact: all classes dmg is getting nerfed because of the crit dmg change

fun fact: thief gets hit the hardest by this nerf.

seriously think about the larger picture

Right, because thieves are the only class that can crit

Interceptor.2653:

We really need to see the numbers. It’s assumed that ANet is talking about max-damage nonsense dungeon builds, but we need to see what actually happens with Ferocity first. While the Celestial fallout will be considerable if left alone, maybe they will re-jigger the stat budget on that armor in order to compensate (after all, they are doing it for the PvP gear).

im not sure what anetMEANT…but what they SAID was its about 10% overall dmg reduction. not 10% less crit dmg. but 10% less dmg dealt period. i mean going from 250% to 240% isno big deal in crit dmg. or even 250% to225% which is a TOTAL of 10% crit dmg reduction. either way i only see them doing 10% of all dmg like they said. you know anet :/

Carpboy.7145:

Travlane.5948:

Carpboy.7145:

Fun fact: all classes dmg is getting nerfed because of the crit dmg change

fun fact: thief gets hit the hardest by this nerf.

seriously think about the larger picture

Right, because thieves are the only class that can crit

no…thieves are the only class that rely on dmg as much as they do. this isnt JUST a nerf to crit dmg. its -10% dmg OVERALL. so.

look at it this way.

guardian has like 9/10 prowess in healing and 9/10 prowess in defense and 6/10 prowess in attack

thief has like 6/10 prowess in healing 6/10 and prowess in defense and 9/10 prowess in attack.

so if both take a 10% hit in total dmg ( lets knock each down 1 peg) so thief is now 8/10 prowess in attack and guardian is 5/10. but both there defense/healing and other areas stay the same. this increases the gap from thief to guardian and other classes bc thiefs trade off for stupid high dmg was its lack of defense lack of HP lack of boons like invuln/block/protection/burning/aegis/stability andlack of toughness and lack of armor. wow thats alot of lack ofs. so basically invis and high dmg is ALL a thief has. the lack of all i mentioned is the price they pay. if it were a lil more well rounded…yes a thief would be only hurt as much as other classes. but bc ofthe sacrifice and the way anet set thief up….. you are not going to see DPS thieves in SPVP anymore or wvw. this is also a direct buff to conditions.

like i said. big picture. zoom out brah

It’s not only a nerf to thieves…
Stop QQ’ing about it. Sure arguably we will get hit the most, but making seem like it’s directed at us or as a consequence of us, essentially making it look like we’re at the center of the stage here, is really stupid and just looks like a selfish QQ thread…

Carpboy.7145:

Fun fact: the 10% less DPS is from a maxed out party, that means 25 might, 25 vuln, warr banners, frost spirit, and spotter. That will hardly have ANY impact on pvp and WvW.

I feel sad to think that people really believe that.

I am going for the worst case scenario, and that total party DPS will get a way bigger nerf than just 10%.

Not like PvE matters.

Not ONLY a nerf to thief, but most impairing to thief because of its dependence on damage…which is the way it SHOULD be, a dependence on damage, not HP or armor…and playing smart, being able to jump in and out, evade, etc…

I am worried that this is going to make it really hard to compete as a valkyrie WvW thief (D/D).

As of now without stacks I am B/S Veteran Guards (the ones that are sentries) for about 7.7k with the really expensive +10% crit damage food (10/30/30/0/0). I have all ascended armor (just completed) and weapons – Valk/Zerker combo armor and Zerker trinkets. It took me a real long time to grind all this.

I get that they said overall 10% damage reduction, but you know you can’t trust ANet – if 10% is the average then it could be worse for some users. If I start B/S those same guards for like 5-6k (obviously this used as a control for PCs) it’s going to make it very hard to win fights (for me) against tanky chars.

I wouldn’t even mind the change if I hadn’t invested so much time into the gear. If it really becomes bad for Hidden Killer gear I hope they let us do a one time swap and the swap into Dire gear or something and go back to P/D.

I just don’t want to have to re-grind the armor and weps – change I am relaxed about.

Yep. A lot of people seem to be overlooking this.

Yay for illogical nerfs.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Ferocity-doesn-t-nerf-berserker-builds/first

Carpboy.7145:

Travlane.5948:

Carpboy.7145:

Fun fact: all classes dmg is getting nerfed because of the crit dmg change

fun fact: thief gets hit the hardest by this nerf.

seriously think about the larger picture

Right, because thieves are the only class that can crit

Its more along the lines of what thieves go for with their power builds. 10% nerf for thief crit dmg is a bigger hit than say power necro or ele. Even though the 10% is across the board, thief already has no luxuries in their defenses that arnt easy to counter or ignore, taking away more of our toys just isnt nice but still. Best to wait till the paych takes affect to make any conclusions. In pvp this wont change much, crit dmg is fairly balanced in there.

Stop QQ.
Thieves have become stealth dependent now, not damage dependent. Would give you many more dodges with +10% damage. Having stealth -10% damage is QQ.

bckerr.4798:

Stop QQ.
Thieves have become stealth dependent now, not damage dependent. Would give you many more dodges with +10% damage. Having stealth -10% damage is QQ.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding this because it’s worded so poorly but not all thieves rely on stealth. I can’t even remember the last time I actually put myself in stealth on mine.

It’s a 17% reduction to crit damage.

100 crit damage becomes 83 crit damage.

That’s significant

it’s good, zerk meta needs to die

In pve maybe. Zerker stat isnt the problem, its the efficiency direct dmg has over conditions. Pvp is a whole different story.

Crit dmg nerf is only part of the patch to come, just wait to see what else comes with it.

My understanding is that we only know the change which is a nerf versus what they have promised is the replacement.

I’d be hesitant right now to think we are or are not more or less impacted than others.

They should change the critical RATE! its too easy to get 50% critical rate (thats mean approximativly 1/2 critique

but don’t nerf the critical damage!

I agree with Despo. The issue is far too often the crit rate, which should be harder to get. That allows you to adjust far more for some classes than others (which should rely more on crits).

Zero Day.2594:

It’s not only a nerf to thieves…
Stop QQ’ing about it. Sure arguably we will get hit the most, but making seem like it’s directed at us or as a consequence of us, essentially making it look like we’re at the center of the stage here, is really stupid and just looks like a selfish QQ thread…

Agreed. My thief will survive better now, so I don’t get the QQ.

animalmom.1062:

I am worried that this is going to make it really hard to compete as a valkyrie WvW thief (D/D).

As of now without stacks I am B/S Veteran Guards (the ones that are sentries) for about 7.7k with the really expensive +10% crit damage food (10/30/30/0/0). I have all ascended armor (just completed) and weapons – Valk/Zerker combo armor and Zerker trinkets. It took me a real long time to grind all this.

I get that they said overall 10% damage reduction, but you know you can’t trust ANet – if 10% is the average then it could be worse for some users. If I start B/S those same guards for like 5-6k (obviously this used as a control for PCs) it’s going to make it very hard to win fights (for me) against tanky chars.

I wouldn’t even mind the change if I hadn’t invested so much time into the gear. If it really becomes bad for Hidden Killer gear I hope they let us do a one time swap and the swap into Dire gear or something and go back to P/D.

I just don’t want to have to re-grind the armor and weps – change I am relaxed about

Welcome to Gear Wars 2.

Sanduskel.1850:

Zero Day.2594:

It’s not only a nerf to thieves…
Stop QQ’ing about it. Sure arguably we will get hit the most, but making seem like it’s directed at us or as a consequence of us, essentially making it look like we’re at the center of the stage here, is really stupid and just looks like a selfish QQ thread…

Agreed. My thief will survive better now, so I don’t get the QQ.

That’s slightly funny and true…
“Survive better” only marginally better against zerkers in comparison to pre-patch…
I wouldn’t consider that a buff though, we will still drop like flies maybe a few milliseconds later. :P Nothing to celebrate about either.

Excalibur.9748:

it’s good, zerk meta needs to die

It’s funny, because of all the offensive gear sets now, berserker becomes the undisputed best choice regardless of how you argue it.

Excalibur.9748:

it’s good, zerk meta needs to die

All they needed to do was add more things like the partially digested husks that you see in the new jungle worm world boss. Mix that new type of mob in with the old ones in dungeons and fractals and all of a sudden you’d have to bring a varied party to make it through a dungeon.

Best DPS is warrior or in some cases ele (who also stacks fury to boot) so obviously these two lose more absolute damage than thief.

WvW is just lol.

Jinchuu.4208:

bckerr.4798:

Stop QQ.
Thieves have become stealth dependent now, not damage dependent. Would give you many more dodges with +10% damage. Having stealth -10% damage is QQ.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding this because it’s worded so poorly but not all thieves rely on stealth. I can’t even remember the last time I actually put myself in stealth on mine.

since the infil return nerf yes most of them rely on stealth atleast a little. there is no more competitive non stealth builds. go play high end TPVP …ull get the idea.

condi removal (stealth related…unless u wanna count your signet for 1 condi)
blinds (blinding power is stealth related and so is the blind on stealth trait)
backstab/sneak attack(if you go condi or dagger direct dmg…both are used)
healing (best healing in class is in stealth)
defense(best defense other than dodging is here…every class has dodge tho)

s/d p/p s/d are just not played right now at a competitive lvl. yes your very very occaisonally see a s/d thief or a s/p thief but not enough to say its commonplace or even close to meta.

What i ended up doing was just using stealth, and not caring who complains about it. I play the game. I play thief. Stealth is in the game… use it.

Travlane.5948:

Jinchuu.4208:

bckerr.4798:

Stop QQ.
Thieves have become stealth dependent now, not damage dependent. Would give you many more dodges with +10% damage. Having stealth -10% damage is QQ.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding this because it’s worded so poorly but not all thieves rely on stealth. I can’t even remember the last time I actually put myself in stealth on mine.

since the infil return nerf yes most of them rely on stealth atleast a little. there is no more competitive non stealth builds. go play high end TPVP …ull get the idea.

Except that no one other than a few hundred players play tpvp, and this nerf will affect the entir playerbase. Oh wait, anet still somehow believes that gw2 is going to be a sport pvp game.

Ferocity affects everyone, not just Thieves. It’s not a Thief-specific nerf and we don’t get to pretend it is either.

Will it affect us more than others? Possibly, but not by much.

It’s certainly not worth whining about.

But I agree that Precision is generally more problematic. I mean with all the traits and Fury it’s far too easy to reach extremely high crit-chances of 80+ %. That should never be the case.

caveman.5840:

i run a sword build in wvw
a 10% drop in damage will hurt
but i really wish we would get back the stun breaker on the sword or some other way to deal with mass cc .
or i will be FORCED "not cool " to go with a condition build :S
less damage and no stun breaker and the sword is useless

at least now we can deal damage with our lack of mobility with the sword

Why don’t you be like everyone else and just run a stunbreaker (or two) as utilities?

good thing I run a condi thief!

Yes good thing nothing will change for condi thieves…they’ll still be worthless vs any bunker.

I just started playing my thief again after setting the game down a couple of months after launch. I’m having to actually allocate points to Deadly Arts/Crit now. Before they’d almost all gone to shadow arts and acrobatics, and I’d still done about twice the DPS of any other class at the same level.

Now you can’t do the same DPS as warrior no matter how many points you put in power and crit trait lines. That’s progress!

Reikou.7068:

caveman.5840:

i run a sword build in wvw
a 10% drop in damage will hurt
but i really wish we would get back the stun breaker on the sword or some other way to deal with mass cc .
or i will be FORCED "not cool " to go with a condition build :S
less damage and no stun breaker and the sword is useless

at least now we can deal damage with our lack of mobility with the sword

Why don’t you be like everyone else and just run a stunbreaker (or two) as utilities?

If you count Shadowstep as two, then I run 4! I only wish Withdraw was also a stunbreaker.

Thiefs will suffer more then warriors, because warrior do get their second sigil on 2h weapons aka gs or eles on staffs, but thiefs only got shortbow, whichs more of an utility weapon than dmg wise.

off topic: give thiefs rifles! for not-condi ranged dmg! (and epiq looks)

they simply want everyone to run condi tanks apprently….oh well, we do have a choice either to join the zombie army of condi tanks or quit game heh

danbuter.2314:

Travlane.5948:

Jinchuu.4208:

bckerr.4798:

Stop QQ.
Thieves have become stealth dependent now, not damage dependent. Would give you many more dodges with +10% damage. Having stealth -10% damage is QQ.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding this because it’s worded so poorly but not all thieves rely on stealth. I can’t even remember the last time I actually put myself in stealth on mine.

since the infil return nerf yes most of them rely on stealth atleast a little. there is no more competitive non stealth builds. go play high end TPVP …ull get the idea.

Except that no one other than a few hundred players play tpvp, and this nerf will affect the entir playerbase. Oh wait, anet still somehow believes that gw2 is going to be a sport pvp game.

the nerf will affect the entire game yes…but thief by far the hardest. go cut defense by 10% and see how hard other teams cry bc thieves are stronger. any nerf will always affect the class that most relies on it. simple.

Travlane.5948:

Jinchuu.4208:

bckerr.4798:

Stop QQ.
Thieves have become stealth dependent now, not damage dependent. Would give you many more dodges with +10% damage. Having stealth -10% damage is QQ.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding this because it’s worded so poorly but not all thieves rely on stealth. I can’t even remember the last time I actually put myself in stealth on mine.

since the infil return nerf yes most of them rely on stealth atleast a little. there is no more competitive non stealth builds. go play high end TPVP …ull get the idea.

condi removal (stealth related…unless u wanna count your signet for 1 condi)
blinds (blinding power is stealth related and so is the blind on stealth trait)
backstab/sneak attack(if you go condi or dagger direct dmg…both are used)
healing (best healing in class is in stealth)
defense(best defense other than dodging is here…every class has dodge tho)

s/d p/p s/d are just not played right now at a competitive lvl. yes your very very occaisonally see a s/d thief or a s/p thief but not enough to say its commonplace or even close to meta.

You are rank 13 confirmed baddie, what do you know about hight end pvp? Or competitve level? got no clue even how glory is awarded or how u get points in spvp, you spout your wisdom?

Introp.8465:

Travlane.5948:

Jinchuu.4208:

bckerr.4798:

Stop QQ.
Thieves have become stealth dependent now, not damage dependent. Would give you many more dodges with +10% damage. Having stealth -10% damage is QQ.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding this because it’s worded so poorly but not all thieves rely on stealth. I can’t even remember the last time I actually put myself in stealth on mine.

since the infil return nerf yes most of them rely on stealth atleast a little. there is no more competitive non stealth builds. go play high end TPVP …ull get the idea.

condi removal (stealth related…unless u wanna count your signet for 1 condi)
blinds (blinding power is stealth related and so is the blind on stealth trait)
backstab/sneak attack(if you go condi or dagger direct dmg…both are used)
healing (best healing in class is in stealth)
defense(best defense other than dodging is here…every class has dodge tho)

s/d p/p s/d are just not played right now at a competitive lvl. yes your very very occaisonally see a s/d thief or a s/p thief but not enough to say its commonplace or even close to meta.

You are rank 13 confirmed baddie, what do you know about hight end pvp? Or competitve level? got no clue even how glory is awarded or how u get points in spvp, you spout your wisdom?

A food critic doesn’t need to know how to cook, nor does a movie critic need to know how to direct. High rank does not equal vast knowledge in PvP, and low rank does not equal little knowledge in PvP. An observer can be just as knowledgeable about the game mode as a seasoned veteran. This doesn’t mean I agree with Travlane – I rarely do. I’m simply pointing this out due to the fact that I see it dropped as an argument constantly when arguing points as far as GW2 PvP goes. It’s ignorant and elitist to assume that someone of a lower rank knows less (although it’s probably true for the majority of people, many of us who are deeply involved in the thief forum and crunch numbers know exactly what we’re talking about when it comes to PvP, the meta, and all other aspects without necessarily being rank 50+). Source: Former Team Legacy member and competitive high end player/spectator, only rank 24. I ran Lowell’s Unicorn Build as a mid-point bunker for a very, very long time. I was also a class lead and participated in every theorycrafting meeting the team had, some of which lasted 72 hours straight just crunching numbers and determining balance.

Fun fact: the 10% less DPS is from a maxed out party, that means 25 might, 25 vuln, warr banners, frost spirit, and spotter. That will hardly have ANY impact on pvp and WvW.

Anyone got a source for this? I watched the live stream and all they said was it would around a 10% damage decrease for berserker wearing classes. They never said anything about buffs/stacks or anything line that. I’ve been attributing that interpretation to wishfull thinking but I could be wrong.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Introp.8465:

Travlane.5948:

Jinchuu.4208:

bckerr.4798:

Stop QQ.
Thieves have become stealth dependent now, not damage dependent. Would give you many more dodges with +10% damage. Having stealth -10% damage is QQ.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding this because it’s worded so poorly but not all thieves rely on stealth. I can’t even remember the last time I actually put myself in stealth on mine.

since the infil return nerf yes most of them rely on stealth atleast a little. there is no more competitive non stealth builds. go play high end TPVP …ull get the idea.

condi removal (stealth related…unless u wanna count your signet for 1 condi)
blinds (blinding power is stealth related and so is the blind on stealth trait)
backstab/sneak attack(if you go condi or dagger direct dmg…both are used)
healing (best healing in class is in stealth)
defense(best defense other than dodging is here…every class has dodge tho)

s/d p/p s/d are just not played right now at a competitive lvl. yes your very very occaisonally see a s/d thief or a s/p thief but not enough to say its commonplace or even close to meta.

You are rank 13 confirmed baddie, what do you know about hight end pvp? Or competitve level? got no clue even how glory is awarded or how u get points in spvp, you spout your wisdom?

A food critic doesn’t need to know how to cook, nor does a movie critic need to know how to direct. High rank does not equal vast knowledge in PvP, and low rank does not equal little knowledge in PvP. An observer can be just as knowledgeable about the game mode as a seasoned veteran. This doesn’t mean I agree with Travlane – I rarely do. I’m simply pointing this out due to the fact that I see it dropped as an argument constantly when arguing points as far as GW2 PvP goes. It’s ignorant and elitist to assume that someone of a lower rank knows less (although it’s probably true for the majority of people, many of us who are deeply involved in the thief forum and crunch numbers know exactly what we’re talking about when it comes to PvP, the meta, and all other aspects without necessarily being rank 50+). Source: Former Team Legacy member and competitive high end player/spectator, only rank 24. I ran Lowell’s Unicorn Build as a mid-point bunker for a very, very long time. I was also a class lead and participated in every theorycrafting meeting the team had, some of which lasted 72 hours straight just crunching numbers and determining balance.

He just proved his knowledge on other thread ( and oh boy he did). And his knowledge is non existat/ pathetic.

Introp.8465:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Introp.8465:

Travlane.5948:

Jinchuu.4208:

bckerr.4798:

Stop QQ.
Thieves have become stealth dependent now, not damage dependent. Would give you many more dodges with +10% damage. Having stealth -10% damage is QQ.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding this because it’s worded so poorly but not all thieves rely on stealth. I can’t even remember the last time I actually put myself in stealth on mine.

since the infil return nerf yes most of them rely on stealth atleast a little. there is no more competitive non stealth builds. go play high end TPVP …ull get the idea.

condi removal (stealth related…unless u wanna count your signet for 1 condi)
blinds (blinding power is stealth related and so is the blind on stealth trait)
backstab/sneak attack(if you go condi or dagger direct dmg…both are used)
healing (best healing in class is in stealth)
defense(best defense other than dodging is here…every class has dodge tho)

s/d p/p s/d are just not played right now at a competitive lvl. yes your very very occaisonally see a s/d thief or a s/p thief but not enough to say its commonplace or even close to meta.

You are rank 13 confirmed baddie, what do you know about hight end pvp? Or competitve level? got no clue even how glory is awarded or how u get points in spvp, you spout your wisdom?

A food critic doesn’t need to know how to cook, nor does a movie critic need to know how to direct. High rank does not equal vast knowledge in PvP, and low rank does not equal little knowledge in PvP. An observer can be just as knowledgeable about the game mode as a seasoned veteran. This doesn’t mean I agree with Travlane – I rarely do. I’m simply pointing this out due to the fact that I see it dropped as an argument constantly when arguing points as far as GW2 PvP goes. It’s ignorant and elitist to assume that someone of a lower rank knows less (although it’s probably true for the majority of people, many of us who are deeply involved in the thief forum and crunch numbers know exactly what we’re talking about when it comes to PvP, the meta, and all other aspects without necessarily being rank 50+). Source: Former Team Legacy member and competitive high end player/spectator, only rank 24. I ran Lowell’s Unicorn Build as a mid-point bunker for a very, very long time. I was also a class lead and participated in every theorycrafting meeting the team had, some of which lasted 72 hours straight just crunching numbers and determining balance.

He just proved his knowledge on other thread ( and oh boy he did). And his knowledge is non existat/ pathetic.

Yep. I never said that I agreed with him. I just thought that I’d point out that people pull the “your rank is low” or “you’re not in the top 1k” card as something that actually means that people know nothing way too much, and it’s not a viable argument in many cases.