Guild Wars 2

So, as the topic states, something is broken and wrong with my thief, and I cant figure out what it is.

My unbuffed stats are:
1721 precision
1556 toughness
1279 vitality

When I use foods, master maintenance oil (6% of toughness to precision, 4% of vitality to precision) and candied dragonroll (70 precision), I should have 1935 precision, but I do not, I end up with 1930.

1556 * .06 = 93.36
1279 * .04 = 51.16
93 + 51 + 1721 + 70 = 1935

what the heck!

Do you have any traits that are converting stats from one to another already? Practiced Tolerance (5% of precision → vitality) would mess it up since the maintenance foods don’t count that small bonus to vitality in their calculations. There might be others, but I can’t think of them right now.

I posted a picture of my traits to show I wasnt using the precision to vit trait when I took the SS’s.

I see you’ve got D/D equipped. What if the food was using your other weapon set when calculating the 4% and 6%? I have no idea why it would do that, though.

Or, the food is missing a slot when figuring those numbers out, maybe it’s not counting the second dagger? Again, no idea why it would do that.

The other weapon set is sword/dagger, and has the same stats as dagger/dagger.

wish.1027:

I posted a picture of my traits to show I wasnt using the precision to vit trait when I took the SS’s.

Ah, sorry, I missed that picture somehow. Exactly how much precision are you gaining by using the maintenance oil? 144? 139?
Also, what runes / sigils are you using?

Softspoken.2410:

wish.1027:

I posted a picture of my traits to show I wasnt using the precision to vit trait when I took the SS’s.

Ah, sorry, I missed that picture somehow. Exactly how much precision are you gaining by using the maintenance oil? 144? 139?
Also, what runes / sigils are you using?

I have 2x bloodlust and 1x flame blast sigils, 6x divinity runes.
1556 * .06 = 93.36
1279 * .04 = 51.16
93 + 51 = 144
I should be gaining 144 precision from the oils,
My screen is showing 1864 precision without dragonrolls.
1864-1721=143
So apparently theyre only giving me 143.
Which if that is true, my guess is that it doesnt count infusions for total vit for oils, as my single vitality infusion just barely pushes me above adding another +1 stat. This also leads to the conclusion dragonrolls dont offer as much precision as they advertise.
But when I change the oil to a stone and use a dragonroll, my precision goes from 1721 to 1791… Which means when I use them both I should have 1934 precision…

Have I mentioned I hate this game?

are we complaining abuot 5 precision?

Travlane.5948:

are we complaining abuot 5 precision?

1935 precision is exactly 53% crit chance, I build my character specifically to hit that number so I dont waste anything, as you gain 1 crit chance for every 21 points of precision. Having 16 wasted stats with 3 precision infusions is sort of a big deal to me, as it means I completely wasted those infusions and everything that went into acquiring them, including the mighty infusion I dumped when I switched my offensive ring to precision from power. But hey, mail me 750 passion flowers and 300 powerful bloods and I’ll swap them to mighty infusions and stop complaining. It’s only like 300 gold right? (mail it to wish.3102, thats the account Im on right now)

Anyway, here’s screenshots of my precision.
First is both, second is just oil, third is just dragonrolls, fourth is neither.

Forget everything I just said.
When I took off the dragonroll to see what oil gave me, I used a mango pie which adds vit, lol.
With omnomberry bar and master maintenance oil I have 1860 precision.
1860-1721=139
So Oils are actually only giving me 139 precision, so thats where I lose 5 stats. But I still dont know why im losing those stats.

EDIT: So maybe the stats on my divinity runes arent counting towards the oils, as thats all I can think of, brb with quick math.

(This is the math to determine how much precision I should gain if divinity runes arent counted towards the stats used by master maintenance oils to figure out how much precision they should give)
(1556 – 60) * .06 = 89.76
(1279 – 60) * .04 = 48.76
89+48= 137
That doesn’t come out right as Im gaining 139 precision, not 137. So I still dont know…

wish.1027:

(This is the math to determine how much precision I should gain if divinity runes arent counted towards the stats used by master maintenance oils to figure out how much precision they should give)
(1556 – 60) * .06 = 89.76
(1279 – 60) * .04 = 48.76
89+48= 137
That doesn’t come out right as Im gaining 139 precision, not 137. So I still dont know…

What if the divinity runes aren’t added like you figured above, but the oils round those numbers instead of truncating? That would make 90 + 49 = 139?

It’s quite possible there’s several “rounding” routines in their code and that they aren’t all equal.

purgatoryz.6038:

wish.1027:

(This is the math to determine how much precision I should gain if divinity runes arent counted towards the stats used by master maintenance oils to figure out how much precision they should give)
(1556 – 60) * .06 = 89.76
(1279 – 60) * .04 = 48.76
89+48= 137
That doesn’t come out right as Im gaining 139 precision, not 137. So I still dont know…

What if the divinity runes aren’t added like you figured above, but the oils round those numbers instead of truncating? That would make 90 + 49 = 139?

It’s quite possible there’s several “rounding” routines in their code and that they aren’t all equal.

I really doubt it rounds up, I dont even know how to put it, its just easier to drop decimals than to deal with them in any way, so I would assume the game does that, rather than work with extra numbers to swing things into the players favor. Especially since every game I ever paid any attention to at all always truncated. But hey, it’s just baseless speculation on my part, Im sure we could do a few checks with lots of different gear on and no/different runes and determine if it rounds up/truncates/counts runes. That thought didnt even enter my mind honestly. It could be that the runes arent counted if it rounds up. I’ll look at this and try to figure it out tonight/tomorrow, if anyone beats me to it, good for you =3

But still, I want to point out something:

Mug: 10/30/30/0/0

Fall: 0/30/30/10/0

I have both of these sets now. And the 30/30/10 comes out correctly, while the 10/30/30 does not.

EDIT: Added a screenshot of the Fall set, with foods and no bloodlust stacks, the stat values are exactly the same as on the site. But the mug set has 5 extra precision compared to what you see in game, and my math says it should match the site.

Yay, yet another post as I spam this thread. Here’s my base values with the 30/30/10 set

1703 precision
1428 toughness
1392 vitality

1428 * .06 = 85.68
1392 * .04 = 55.68
85 + 55 + 70 + 1703 = 1913
85.5 + 55.5 + 70 + 1703 = 1914
86 + 55 + 70 + 1703 = 1915

1844 is the value I am shown with just oil on.
1844 – 1703 = 141

85 + 55 = 140
85.5 + 55.5 = 141
86 + 56 = 142

So from this, it looks like rather than round up, it adds the decimals together for the vit and toughness values, then truncates or rounds down (you would have .32 remaining after adding them together, which is less than .5 so the next step should be to add enough toughness to hit .51 or higher after adding the 2 together to find out if it rounds or truncates at this step), since I would have 1915 precision if it rounded up before adding them together. The other problem with this set is that it doesnt look like the runes are excluded from the calculations for how much precision Oils add. There also cannot be a cap of 139 precision, as this adds 141 precision. So ya, Im even more confused now.

Also: theres no defensive infusions in this set.

First picture will be no food, second is with oils, third is with oils and dragonrolls, 4th is traits.

Also Ive totally wasted like 2 gold on food and retraiting today, hurray for me.

Original equation:
1703 precision
1428 toughness
1392 vitality

1428 * .06 = 85.68
1392 * .04 = 55.68
85.68 + 55.68 + 70 + 1703 = 1914.36

So lets see what happens if I switch my berserker shoes with a divinity rune with my soldiers shoes with a beryl orb.
New equation:
1703 -10 -24 = 1669 precision
1428 -10 + 24 = 1442 toughness
1392 -10 + 24 + 15 = 1421 vitality

1442 * .06 = 86.52
1421 * .04 = 56.84
86.52 + 56.84 + 70 + 1669 = 1882.36
0.36 isnt high enough, but the predicted value of 1882 is correct in-game.

berserker/divinity gloves to soldier/beryl orb.
1669 -10 -24 = 1635 precision
1442 -10 + 24 = 1456 toughness
1421 -10 + 24 + 15 = 1450 vitality

1456 * .06 = 87.36
1450 * .04 = 58
87.36 + 58 + 70 + 1635 = 1850.36
0.36 is to low again (the next better not be .36!) but the predicted precision is correct in-game.

At this point I typed out like 15 more combinations of gear, and none of them worked, so I deleted them all, lol. Here’s one that works:
Soldier/divinity hat, soldier/beryl orb gloves/boots, valk dagger, b/b amulet, back, ring, earring, b/v ring, earring, 3 precision infusions, 3 power infusions.

1581 precision
1306 toughness
1234 vitality

1306 * .06 = 78.36
1234 * .04 = 49.36
78 + 49 + 70 + 1581 = 1778
78.36 + 49.36 + 70 + 1581 = 1778.72

So when I use an oil and dragon candy in-game if I see 1778 it means it doesnt truncate until after adding the values for precision added from toughness and vitality are added together. If we see 1779 it means rather than truncate it rounds to the nearest number (which would be up to 1779). If we see 1778 it cannot mean it truncates before adding the precision added from vit and toughness together, since we actually ruled that possibility out earlier in the thread if youve read it all, so please dont say it does/can.

So heres the problem.
It’s 1777
GO FK YOURSELF GW2 AND LEARN HOW TO COUNT!!!

Im tired and mad, does it show?

So this is my new idea.
Everything is broken down into random numbers that are not exact % ‘s. That 6% of toughness is probably like 5.95% and thats 4% vit is probably like 3.95%. This is my new theory, and I’ll get back to this later to confirm/deny this is whats happening, but it’s gonna take awhile, probably not til at least tomorrow.

Basically I think the 6% is actually 61/1024 (5.957%~) and 4% is actually 40/1024 (3.906%~), if that gives anyone an idea of what Im thinking about.

EDIT 1::

Actually it might not take that long. Lets see if this says 1777
1306 * (61/1024) = 77.798828125
1234 * (40/1024) = 48.203125
77.798828125 + 48.203125 + 70 + 1581 = 1777.00195313

Ya, this is my new theory for whats happening, but I dont think it can cover a 5 point swing in the mug set.

EDIT 2::

Mug set
1556 * (61/1024) = 92.69140625
1279 * (40/1024) = 49.9609375
92.69140625 + 49.9609375 + 70 + 1721 = 1933.65234375

Ya, it doesnt cover the 5 point swing, only 2. So something is still wrong with my mug set.

C-c-c-combo breaker,

Sorry had to break up this solo thread :p

BobbyT.7192:

C-c-c-combo breaker,

Sorry had to break up this solo thread :p

Other people talked to me for like 5 minutes…
then I typed a lot of numbers and lost them =/

Sorry it’s just

you managed to get the error between what you expect and what you’re receiving down to 1 point out of over 1750 with some combos, so that’s what, less than a 0.06% difference?

I mean I commend you for going this deep into it but I think you’re just going to drive yourself crazy if you go much further.

Get a minor sigil of accuracy and kill one npc.

WonderfulCT.6278:

Get a minor sigil of accuracy and kill one npc.

Wasting 250 power?

WonderfulCT.6278:

Get a minor sigil of accuracy and kill one npc.

Power stacks are better than precision because you want to build for exact crit chance to maximize effectiveness. I covered this in my last thread, but you want to use bloodlust sigils and oils (not stones) for food, and make your precision hit an exact value and convert all the rest of your stats in precision to something else. Random extra power is ok because it always adds to your damage, precision doesnt work that way, only every 21st point of precision is worth anything at all. Because of this using an unreliable 250 precision that could be any value divisible by 10 up to 250 isnt smart. In my last thread I also went over why using power/power or precision/precision isnt as good as power/precision in sigil/wrench from a DPS standpoint if youre interested, mixing them increases your DPS compared to both being the same stat.

Anyway! onto todays thoughts of how stupid this game is and how it needs to learn how to count correctly. My guardians base stats are
1167 Precision
1557 Toughness
1445 Vitality
1386 Precision is what I get in game after using these foods.

1557 * .06 = 93.42
1445 * .04 = 57.8

leaving all decimals
93.42 + 57. 8 + 70 + 1167 = 1388.22
this doesnt work.

dropping all decimals
93 + 57 + 70 + 1167 = 1387
this doesnt work

rounding to the nearest number
93 + 58 + 70 + 1167 = 1388
this doesnt work

It’s safe to say it is definitely using something other than * .0x to determine how much of each stat oils/stones give. My predictions for what it’s using will be the following:
1% = 10/1024
2% = 20/1024
3% = 30/1024
4% = 40/1024
5% = 50/1024
6% = 61/1024
7% = 71/1024

1557 * (61 / 1024) = 92.7509765625
1445 * (40 / 1024) = 56.4453125

leaving all decimals
92.7509765625 + 56.4453125 + 70 + 1167 = 1386.19628906
this works

dropping all decimals
92 + 56 + 70 + 1167 = 1385
this doesnt work

rounding to the nearest number
93 + 56 + 70 + 1167 = 1386
this works

It’s going to take a really long time to determine if this is what it’s actually doing, unless I get stupidly lucky, math was never my strong suite and I only have a bad high school education in it, and I need to find a value where we’ll get a different number with 60/1024 compared to 61/1024 and then check in game to see which shows up. Since the the 6%‘s and 7%’s could be 60/1024 and 70/1024. The other thing we can temporarily rule out from this is dropping decimals and ignoring them completely in these calculations, unless I can find a situation where thats the only thing that works, or rule out the other two in different calculations, which would indicate this is entirely wrong. Fun times, maybe I’ll get lucky and a Dev will post and tell me what what exactly oils/stones do and why my math is off, that would be great! lol….

The next step is slightly increasing my vitality to bring this:
1445 * (40 / 1024) = 56.4453125
to 56.51 – 56.99 to see which of the two it appears to be using. After that I need to drop that vit and remove just a bit of toughness to bring this:
1557 * (61 / 1024) = 92.7509765625
to 92 – 92.49 to see what happens.

Edit: Forgot to add screenshots of my guardians stats. Also, I forgot to mention, I brought up the HS math thing because there’s probably a backwards way of calculating it to find a gear set I could use for testing purposes, but I dont know what it is. So Im basically going through everything I have and randomly mixing and matching gear to see what numbers I get and if I can break my ideas and prove them wrong.

This is my guardians current setup, Im working on improving it, so its not really finished or ready for discussion yet. And since the site cant save my boon durations, I posted another picture with them included.

Last edit, I swear, if you look at the build site it predicts 1388 precision for this build, which is wrong. Also, that 75% regen duration should be 70%.

Wtf… is this thread even…

You’re talking about 2-3 stat points of precision. Just put it into perspective, this is 0.14% critical chance, it isn’t worth wasting this much time over.

I understand you want to min max to the fullest extent, but you seem to be obsessing over essentially a 1% margin of critical chance. How does this affect you in a fight? That 1 extra hit in every 100 hits that would have otherwise been a critical, now might not be?

Jakare.6807:

Wtf… is this thread even…

You’re talking about 2-3 stat points of precision. Just put it into perspective, this is 0.14% critical chance, it isn’t worth wasting this much time over.

Actually, points 1-20 into precision do nothing, and the 21st point is worth 1% crit chance. So you should build your character to hit an exact number that increases your crit chance to maximize your effectiveness. You’re basically saying “who cares about 200 HP” or “who cares about 20 extra power” etc when you get down on not maximizing your precision.

Jakare.6807:

I understand you want to min max to the fullest extent, but you seem to be obsessing over 3 precision

Yes, yes I am.

Jakare.6807:

Wtf… is this thread even…

You’re talking about *2-3 stat points of precision… …isn’t worth wasting this much time over…

While this may be true for you, however you can see for the OP this is not true. I would always rather have more stats. I also greatly appreciate someone who will dedicate their time to doing the math to min-max.

Anet please send a source to confirm how this works since the values appear to be off from what they are offering.

wish.1027:

you gain 1 crit chance for every 21 points of precision.

Problem solved – you are wrong, it is 21.16 precision per crit chance at level 80. Don’t believe everything you read on the interwebz as the rounding occurs after the total calculation and not before the modification from food/traits/etc.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Precision

wish.1027:

Actually, points 1-20 into precision do nothing, and the 21st point is worth 1% crit chance.

This is assuming the crit chance is rounded from precision internally and not just in the display.

stof.9341:

wish.1027:

Actually, points 1-20 into precision do nothing, and the 21st point is worth 1% crit chance.

This is assuming the crit chance is rounded from precision internally and not just in the display.

I dont understand why you would think its not rounded down. Could you explain it me? Seriously. Ive been seeing a lot of posts like this about how the game doesnt drop all decimals every time it gets one, and I dont understand the reasoning behind why people would think it doesnt.

Artaz.3819:

wish.1027:

you gain 1 crit chance for every 21 points of precision.

Problem solved – you are wrong, it is 21.16 precision per crit chance at level 80. Don’t believe everything you read on the interwebz as the rounding occurs after the total calculation and not before the modification from food/traits/etc.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Precision

21 points at L80 (the amount required seems to be rounded down from the 21.16 predicted by the formula¹).

Did you see this part?
To further prove this, if we count from the beginning by 21, we get…
927 5
948 6
969 7
990 8
1011 9
1032 10
1053 11
1074 12
1095 13
1116 14
1137 15
1158 16
1179 17
1200 18
1221 19
1242 20
1263 21
1284 22
1305 23
1326 24
1347 25
1368 26
1389 27
1410 28
1431 29
1452 30
1473 31
1494 32
1515 33
1536 34
1557 35
1578 36
1599 37
1620 38
1641 39
1662 40
1683 41
1704 42
1725 43
1746 44
1767 45
1788 46
1809 47
1830 48
1851 49
1872 50
1893 51
1914 52

1914 precision to reach 52% crit chance, If we counted by 21.16 we’d need more than 1914 to reach 52% crit chance. And you can see in the screenshot I attached 1914 is indeed 52%