Guild Wars 2

[Teef] will be holding another SoT sometime next week. OML wants to focus on utilities and go over weapon skills again as the first iteration was a bit rushed. Weapon skills will look at the initial decisions of each weapon skill and determine a more solid way to go about buffing the weaponsets.

Where: Guild Chat

When: Friday 21 @ 3pm eastern until conclusion

Then I will leave it here ^^
Just going for 3 things from the previous post.
Mercifull ambush is way better than you rated it. Using it efficiently it allows some incredible moves. I dont think it needs a change.
With last refuge I actually never had that terrible experiences. Yes, it happened to activate at the wrong moment, but everyone KNOWS it was there. It was about playing with it, not against it. I think a lot of problems come up because of people having autotargeting and autoattack (yes, i even have to press each 1 manually, I like more control, but my whole keybindings are weird – 1 = C for example)
The proposed might-gaining sitting in stealth is a big no-go in my eyes. We want to get away from sitting in stealth stacking might and health and shift into gaining things via getting into and out of stealth (might-duration would need to be really short). That leads me to the last one: shadow protector. I like your proposed “gaining protection”. But protecton isvery strong and should not be that stackable. Gain and give like1-3 secof protection providing stealth to you or allies and gain it again when entering revealed (maybe activating when getting revealed through sic’em?!/not sureif alliesshould get it than when getting revealed, too). Not sure how that kind of things would turn out at the end. We already grt health and -25% damage in stealth (change that to gain health when entering stealth/revealed) and we dont needmore survival in SA but everywhere else… ^^

If you guys do ratings again, separate PvE/WvW/PvP ratings would provide a much more meaningful critique. I hope you guys consider putting in the extra effort to do so.

Midi.8359:

If you guys do ratings again, separate PvE/WvW/PvP ratings would provide a much more meaningful critique. I hope you guys consider putting in the extra effort to do so.

But the skills and traits are the same in all game modes.
I get your point but that would be a wall of text
So in the end maybe we should make a thread in which all of us post their build sheets and in which all of us say what problems we have/what we liked to be changed
And of course which game mode we play. We could still do that – I mean, since the “Nerf stealth” threads disappeared basically overnight there’s not much going on on this forum anyway.

Personally I’d like a thread in which all thieves list what skills they use as I bet it’s only 6 which are used which is the problem with the new condi removal options – there’s no use in splitting them into trickery, acrobatics and shadow skills as all of us use the same skills, no matter what build/weaponset.

That is actually a great idea jana! I think if [Teef] tackled everything from all angles that we could map out exactly what the problems are for specific traits.

The traits are all the same, but the context is very different. I could list how but I’m pretty sure you already know how.

I’m not sure if there’s a good way to tackle balancing an entire class for three game modes without making a wall of text. But irregardless, good luck in however you end up deciding to approach the issue.

Midi.8359:

The traits are all the same, but the context is very different. I could list how but I’m pretty sure you already know how.

I’m not sure if there’s a good way to tackle balancing an entire class for three game modes without making a wall of text. But irregardless, good luck in however you end up deciding to approach the issue.

That’s what anet does. So what good is it if we split it into 3 modes when it will be one in the end anyway?

I seriously wish Karl would take another look at the Thief’s base specialisation. Look at the revenant, they got an evade for unrelenting assault now. Wish Roy was working on this class instead of that guy who does 3classes at once and forgets the trait names== anyhow no point ranting so much. So what’s the plan? We post the problems until Karl notices? Guess I’m in, even if it takes a year of flooding the forums.

Nephrite.6954:

I seriously wish Karl would take another look at the Thief’s base specialisation. Look at the revenant, they got an evade for unrelenting assault now. Wish Roy was working on this class instead of that guy who does 3classes at once and forgets the trait names== anyhow no point ranting so much. So what’s the plan? We post the problems until Karl notices? Guess I’m in, even if it takes a year of flooding the forums.

Been more than a year of flooding, lol. Any who back on topic.

Who cares if its a wall of text? First off this is gana be for weapon and utility skills which shortens things up a lot as there are a lot of traits. Secondly if its formatted and looks clean then readers (hopefully a dev who has the slightest interest in seeing thief become something) can view each point and absorb its knowledge and reasoning. A simple format could be:

[Weapon/Utility skill here]
PVE/PVP/WVW Rating here x/x/x
Current skill role here
Why does it work/not work here (The longer part, but this part would explain how this skill works/doesn’t work in each game mode)
Suggestion to fix or redesign here (The somewhat long part if needed, values/functionality can change between the 3 game modes. They are not the same, so I don’t understand why some people feel that the effectiveness of 1 skill vs AI is ever going to be perfectly translated to that of versing a player. No need to explain the changes here since that will be covered in the previous part. The end goal is if a skill needs adjusting the reasoning will be to give it a purpose and make it work at least on paper)

Even if developers only make a single change at the end of the day. They still have to consider how that change will affect each game mode individually. Assuming that a change could affect one game mode differently than it could another that is (And likewise that a skill or trait could be good in one mode and not so good in another).

But still, isolating each game mode is just my suggestion. If you folks feel as if there isn’t any benefit to doing so then just don’t do so. Rather, if nobody in these ongoing internal discussions sees any benefit to isolating each game mode, then it wouldn’t be very beneficial to try and force yourselves to isolate each game mode.

That being said though, I can share why I think the game modes are better separated. Like I said earlier, even though the traits (and skills) are all the same, the context is very different. Elaborating on that a bit more (From my perspective, which is by no means an end all perspective). In PvP you can’t respec, play in small groups of five, play around capture points and objectives in a relatively small area, typically play against a somewhat well-defined meta, and everyone plays with the same level of gear. In WvW you can respec, play zerg, solo, or specialty (Like solo camp flipper/scout/revbot), you can rally/stack/stealth off neutral monsters, de-aggro’ing and re-engaging is a bigger thing in WvW than in PvP, you have access to foods (+40% condition duration being a big one), tuning stones, different runes (trapper being a big one here, dunno if there’s a list of rune differences, but hopefully there is), and applied fortitude/strength. Lastly, in PvE most of the differences listed above from PvP and WvW transfer, but instead of playing against players your primary target becomes an AI, and sustaining becomes a bigger deal since the AI isn’t going to run away anywhere.

Of course there will be instances where none of those differences matter, like dagger training for example which is weak in all game modes. But likewise there will be instances where those differences do matter, like +40% condition duration and runes of the trapper making condi and trapper builds more viable in WvW/PvE than in PvP.

@yolo: If you know the date/time of the guild intern discussion, tell us

Midi.8359:

snip

I already said that you are right – but that it would be a massive wall of text.
So I proposed that people make a thread with their build and their playstyle and rate the traits and skills after that – that way you only have the stuff which is used.
I’d make a post with my pve and wvw build and rate the traits/skills/weaponskills according to that.
I know that anet has got access to all the skills and builds we use but they don’t knw which thieves are built for competitive play, so maybe that would help our cause.

yay time updated!

SoT is today! Friendly reminder.

Add me to the guild too guys. Will join in on the convo aswell

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Add me to the guild too guys. Will join in on the convo aswell

Done.

Nice 1. At work atm so I will accept when I get home