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Posted by: Smooth Penguin.5294

Smooth Penguin.5294

Thanks to the trait buffs from today’s patch, Thieves are now strong again!

-Revealed Training: Gain up to 200 extra power when striking an enemy from stealth, based on your level.

-Invigorating Precision: You are healed for 5% of outgoing critical strike damage.

-Resilience of Shadows: Stealth effects that you apply reduce incoming attack damage by 50%.

-Assassin’s Equilibrium: Gain 1.25 seconds of stability when striking an enemy from stealth.

-Bewildering Ambush: Stealing also applies 5 stacks of confusion for 5.25 seconds.

More Backstab damage. -50% damage while in Stealth. Even Confusion on Steal. These alone allow for more variable Thief builds. The only thing better would be to reintroduce Cantha!

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Posted by: DeWolfe.2174

DeWolfe.2174

You mean even more OP again?

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Posted by: Sir Vincent III.1286

Sir Vincent III.1286

I like how they increased the stability’s base duration from 1 second to 1.25 seconds. Not quite something I personally prefer (1.5 base would be just right) but at least they acknowledge that 1 second duration was not worth the GM trait.

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Posted by: DatPieGuy.6540

DatPieGuy.6540

So does revealed training grant bonus power while revealed, as we originally believed, or does it apply to attacks initiated from stealth? If its the latter, I’m immediately switching to 6/6/0/0/1 for wvw so I can feel better about the crit damage nerf.

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Posted by: Hexalot.8194

Hexalot.8194

So does revealed training grant bonus power while revealed, as we originally believed, or does it apply to attacks initiated from stealth? If its the latter, I’m immediately switching to 6/6/0/0/1 for wvw so I can feel better about the crit damage nerf.

Yeah… I think OP has it wrong… 200 power should apply after back stab.

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Posted by: Sir Vincent III.1286

Sir Vincent III.1286

So does revealed training grant bonus power while revealed, as we originally believed, or does it apply to attacks initiated from stealth? If its the latter, I’m immediately switching to 6/6/0/0/1 for wvw so I can feel better about the crit damage nerf.

It seems they caught on the fact that having +200 power while revealed is too OP when an anti-stealth trap revealed you. I have predicted that this will get nerfed by release…and it did.

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Posted by: Smooth Penguin.5294

Smooth Penguin.5294

The wording is “striking an enemy from stealth”, not “striking an enemy while Revealed”. Until I can properly test this, I’m assuming Backstab will have 200 more Power.

But still, I love the -50% damage while in Stealth. Now I can take a couple more Meteor Shower hits before I leave my SR circle.

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Posted by: yolo swaggins.2570

yolo swaggins.2570

:O Wow those are nice! I have more incentive to get my thief to 80 now.

EDIT: I just realized that this update might generate more complaints. I hope Arenanet doesn’t nerf these too hard because of it. :C

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Posted by: Zeke Azul Falcon.5176

Zeke Azul Falcon.5176

any word if this applies on backstab?

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Posted by: Toroquin.3605

Toroquin.3605

I like how they increased the stability’s base duration from 1 second to 1.25 seconds. Not quite something I personally prefer (1.5 base would be just right) but at least they acknowledge that 1 second duration was not worth the GM trait.

Actually it seems they didn’t – it’s a typo they made when they looked at the trait in the trait UI with 30 acrobatics (which gives 30% boon duration). So the base duration is still 1 second but 1.25 with the boon duration from acrobatics.

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Posted by: Sir Vincent III.1286

Sir Vincent III.1286

I like how they increased the stability’s base duration from 1 second to 1.25 seconds. Not quite something I personally prefer (1.5 base would be just right) but at least they acknowledge that 1 second duration was not worth the GM trait.

Actually it seems they didn’t – it’s a typo they made when they looked at the trait in the trait UI with 30 acrobatics (which gives 30% boon duration). So the base duration is still 1 second but 1.25 with the boon duration from acrobatics.

I didn’t have a chance to test this myself, just going by the notes, but if this is true, then this is just an out right dishonest. Too much dishonesty going on in this feature pack.

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Posted by: Interceptor.2653

Interceptor.2653

^ That doesn’t make sense as an explanation. You have at least 30% boon duration with a GM trait in Acrobatics, so if they made a transcription mistake it should have been 1.3 seconds instead of 1.25.

I didn’t have a chance to pick up this up last night, but I’ll look at it later if nobody else does.

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Posted by: Kincaidia.3192

Kincaidia.3192

What the hell is this topic? Are all of you in the twilight zone and it’s opposite day? I don’t get the joke at all….

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Posted by: Black Teagan.9215

Black Teagan.9215

Which buffs? I see only nerfs or bugfixes.

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Posted by: NinjaEd.3946

NinjaEd.3946

Which buffs? I see only nerfs or bugfixes.

^

People can pretend all they want that AE is good. It’s barely worth a adept trait even, why soak up cc when you can dodge it? You know, from the extra endurance regen from going into acrobatics?

RoS and BA have their place atleast. 2/5 is better than 0/100.

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Posted by: Interceptor.2653

Interceptor.2653

People can pretend all they want that AE is good.

It’s so kind of you to give people permission to have an opinion on something.

why soak up cc when you can dodge it?

Just in case this is a serious question, you’d want to soak up CC with Stability when you:

  1. can’t evade the CC (Static Field cannot be evaded)
  2. aren’t able to dodge (no endurance, immobilized, or don’t see the hit coming)
  3. want to keep dealing damage (can’t be using skills during a manual dodge)

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Posted by: Sir Vincent III.1286

Sir Vincent III.1286

People can pretend all they want that AE is good.

It’s so kind of you to give people permission to have an opinion on something.

why soak up cc when you can dodge it?

Just in case this is a serious question, you’d want to soak up CC with Stability when you:

  1. can’t evade the CC (Static Field cannot be evaded)
  2. aren’t able to dodge (no endurance, immobilized, or don’t see the hit coming)
  3. want to keep dealing damage (can’t be using skills during a manual dodge)

That’s exactly what it’s for, to give a slight protection after a stealth attack. Some people just doesn’t understand the value of this.

I rather do backstab → stabby→ stabby → stab → stab instead of backstab → dodgy → dee → dodge → dodge because ol’ hammer warrior is angry for getting backstabbed.

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Posted by: Maugetarr.6823

Maugetarr.6823

People can pretend all they want that AE is good.

It’s so kind of you to give people permission to have an opinion on something.

why soak up cc when you can dodge it?

Just in case this is a serious question, you’d want to soak up CC with Stability when you:

  1. can’t evade the CC (Static Field cannot be evaded)
  2. aren’t able to dodge (no endurance, immobilized, or don’t see the hit coming)
  3. want to keep dealing damage (can’t be using skills during a manual dodge)

That’s exactly what it’s for, to give a slight protection after a stealth attack. Some people just doesn’t understand the value of this.

I rather do backstab -> stabby-> stabby -> stab -> stab instead of backstab -> dodgy -> dee -> dodge -> dodge because ol’ hammer warrior is angry for getting backstabbed.

It’s such a short duration though (apparently it’s 1 second base and the .25 comes from 30 acro) that combined with reaction time and pre/after cast, something like hammer F1 will probably hit after the stability wears off unless they cast it before you revealed yourself. Let’s also not forget that you’re probably doing dodgy-dee-dodge already since getting hit with warrior hammer is like getting hit by a …. well… hammer: it still hurts even if you don’t get stunned.

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Posted by: Toroquin.3605

Toroquin.3605

^ That doesn’t make sense as an explanation. You have at least 30% boon duration with a GM trait in Acrobatics, so if they made a transcription mistake it should have been 1.3 seconds instead of 1.25.

I didn’t have a chance to pick up this up last night, but I’ll look at it later if nobody else does.

It shows up in-game, when you have 30 Acrobatics, as 1¼ (1+¼ = 1.25) because all boon and condition durations, at least in the in-game description, are rounded up or down to the closest ¼ and the rests that don’t fit into whole seconds are expressed as a fraction. For example a 1 sec condition becomes 1½ seconds with 150% condi duration and 1¾ seconds with 185% condi duration. 30% extra boon duration does therefore make the description of Assassin’s Equilibrium state that it gives 1¼ seconds of stability.

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Posted by: Dahkeus.8243

Dahkeus.8243

Just in case this is a serious question, you’d want to soak up CC with Stability when you:

  1. can’t evade the CC (Static Field cannot be evaded)
  2. aren’t able to dodge (no endurance, immobilized, or don’t see the hit coming)
  3. want to keep dealing damage (can’t be using skills during a manual dodge)

The problem is that 1.25 seconds is nothing. However, making a full investment to the acro tree is a pretty substantial reduction to your potential damage output with very little return in utility.

Ultimately, the acro tree overall is a very awkward fit for a stealth build.

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Posted by: Sir Vincent III.1286

Sir Vincent III.1286

^ That doesn’t make sense as an explanation. You have at least 30% boon duration with a GM trait in Acrobatics, so if they made a transcription mistake it should have been 1.3 seconds instead of 1.25.

I didn’t have a chance to pick up this up last night, but I’ll look at it later if nobody else does.

I’m looking at it right now and this is how it works.

1s duration with 1-2 pts in Acro
1.25s duration with 3-6 pts in Acro

Not sure if the Math works but that’s how it is now.

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Posted by: Interceptor.2653

Interceptor.2653

The problem is that 1.25 seconds is nothing.

To be clear, that’s a problem with AE, not with my response to NinjaEd, who deserves to be challenged for what he said about Stability.

However, making a full investment to the acro tree is a pretty substantial reduction to your potential damage output with very little return in utility.

This is total nonsense. Fluid Strikes is excellent as a damage multiplier (meshes well with the style of the line), boon duration is good for extending Fury/Might, and Feline Grace/Vigorous Recovery/Pain Response are excellent utility traits. Also a 3k increase to your baseline health of 10.8k, because why not.

Ultimately, the acro tree overall is a very awkward fit for a stealth build.

For a full stealth build, sure. Works OK with 2 SA though, which is why you might see AE on an S/D Thief if ArenaNet sees fit to boost the duration a little bit. There are already viable setups that use 5 Acro, so it’s just a matter of making the 6th point worth it.

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Posted by: Johje Holan.4607

Johje Holan.4607

So does revealed training grant bonus power while revealed, as we originally believed, or does it apply to attacks initiated from stealth? If its the latter, I’m immediately switching to 6/6/0/0/1 for wvw so I can feel better about the crit damage nerf.

We’re not going to start using this method for describing trait builds are we? We nned to stick with the 30/30/0/0/10 method.

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Posted by: Urejt.5648

Urejt.5648

“Invigorating Precision: You are healed for 5% of outgoing critical strike damage.”

What a joke! 5% from 20 000 is 1 000 hp healed. You get 1 000 heal from gm trait. What a joke…
In one duel u deal 30 000 dmg if u kill enemy. With standart berz u get 66% cr. 2/3 X 30 000 = 20 000 critical dmg.

Now u can choose: 1 000 hp heal or 3 000 extra dmg (30 000:2X1/5) from 20%extra dmg gm trait….

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Posted by: Sir Vincent III.1286

Sir Vincent III.1286

People can pretend all they want that AE is good.

It’s so kind of you to give people permission to have an opinion on something.

why soak up cc when you can dodge it?

Just in case this is a serious question, you’d want to soak up CC with Stability when you:

  1. can’t evade the CC (Static Field cannot be evaded)
  2. aren’t able to dodge (no endurance, immobilized, or don’t see the hit coming)
  3. want to keep dealing damage (can’t be using skills during a manual dodge)

That’s exactly what it’s for, to give a slight protection after a stealth attack. Some people just doesn’t understand the value of this.

I rather do backstab -> stabby-> stabby -> stab -> stab instead of backstab -> dodgy -> dee -> dodge -> dodge because ol’ hammer warrior is angry for getting backstabbed.

It’s such a short duration though (apparently it’s 1 second base and the .25 comes from 30 acro) that combined with reaction time and pre/after cast, something like hammer F1 will probably hit after the stability wears off unless they cast it before you revealed yourself. Let’s also not forget that you’re probably doing dodgy-dee-dodge already since getting hit with warrior hammer is like getting hit by a …. well… hammer: it still hurts even if you don’t get stunned.

Are you sure that 1.25s is short?

Let’s say instead of a 1.25s buff duration, let’s make it 1.25s casting time. Is 1.25s still short or now it’s too long? Funny how that works.

However, I do agree with how much protection this will actually do factoring in the reaction and casting time. On the other hand, Stability also protects against instant activation conditions like Fear and Daze.

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PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.

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Posted by: NinjaEd.3946

NinjaEd.3946

The problem is that 1.25 seconds is nothing.

To be clear, that’s a problem with AE, not with my response to NinjaEd, who deserves to be challenged for what he said about Stability.

However, making a full investment to the acro tree is a pretty substantial reduction to your potential damage output with very little return in utility.

This is total nonsense. Fluid Strikes is excellent as a damage multiplier (meshes well with the style of the line), boon duration is good for extending Fury/Might, and Feline Grace/Vigorous Recovery/Pain Response are excellent utility traits. Also a 3k increase to your baseline health of 10.8k, because why not.

Ultimately, the acro tree overall is a very awkward fit for a stealth build.

For a full stealth build, sure. Works OK with 2 SA though, which is why you might see AE on an S/D Thief if ArenaNet sees fit to boost the duration a little bit. There are already viable setups that use 5 Acro, so it’s just a matter of making the 6th point worth it.

If you are dodging into static fields, that’s a l2p problem and not in support of a 1.25 second stability. Like the guy earlier said, you don’t just dodge to avoid the cc you dodge to avoid the damage which can also bring in conditions which are bad news for thieves in generally all cases.

There is more than just using endurance to evade an attack. There is also utility/healing with the possibility of IR if sword is your thing, and numerous weapon skills. If you’re out of endurance because of dodging all day again, your fault and stability won’t fix that.

Yes you can’t deal direct damage while manually dodging, but you can use certain weapon skills to keep damage up while evading. If you run into the case of, “Do I dodge this cc to halt my dps for a short moment, or attack to gain stability while eating the hit”. Either one isn’t better than the other, which is why I say AE is a joke. Taking damage to continue dps, or dodge to set up for future dps, depending on the attack it might end up being better to simply dodge it or port out.

I would of been much happier if they just made HtC work properly, giving some handle on cc spam to acrobatics, because AE is not a valuable solution in its current state.

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(edited by NinjaEd.3946)

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Posted by: Alice.8694

Alice.8694

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Posted by: godofcows.2451

godofcows.2451

the only thing my build found useful was the extra slot for the shortbow. i won’t be changing my executioner for the 5% invigorating precision specially now that crit has been nerfed, i’ll be needing the damage more to make up. i was hoping for a really good acrobatic grandmaster as i run 30 acro but i am not using any of it’s grandmasters nor will the new one fit for me. i find it very awkward myself that it relies on stealth triggers. but hey, what can we do.

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Posted by: icedude.1074

icedude.1074

Could someone give me a link for a good thief build post 15 april patch? Would be greatly appriciated.

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Posted by: Doggie.3184

Doggie.3184

I didn’t really like Invigorating Precision that much~ it felt really weak even in WvW zerg (61% crit chance and fury) and was better off just using Executioner and Malice alone. The DA trait I used for a bit but it seemed unnecessary. I like the Shadow Arts GM so far though.

I tried Acrobatics GM but it felt pointless on my S/D Thief since I stun/blind people out of stealth. ;/ Wish it was stability after roll or something more practical.

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Posted by: NinjaEd.3946

NinjaEd.3946

Could someone give me a link for a good thief build post 15 april patch? Would be greatly appriciated.

Not to be rude, but you should really think of builds on your own. It helps you understand the profession better using your eyes. If you have no chance of that, well multiple people on this sub forum post their builds and a video link, some of which are fun to watch.

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Posted by: Interceptor.2653

Interceptor.2653

that’s a l2p problem

No, that’s an answer to the question “why soak up cc when you can dodge it?”. Pay attention to the flow of conversation. To review why you’d soak CC instead of dodging it, here it is again, with smaller words this time:

  1. can’t evade the CC anyway
  2. dodge not possible
  3. rather deal damage

Nothing else to it, really. As I said to the other poster, this isn’t a defense of AE, it’s just a list of facts that highlight how silly your question was.