Guild Wars 2

To much stealth, damage and mobility. Enough already devs it, time for the nerfbat to strike this op class.

Yes! Nerf everything we don’t like! Makes perfect sense! And when Thief is rendered useless, whose next, Mesmer? Then when the QQers are done with Mesmer, whose next, Necromancer? Ranger? Guardian? In fact, I have the perfect solution; let’s just remove all the classes, except warrior from the game, since the warrior class is clearly the only class that is completely perfect as is!

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

Yes! Nerf everything we don’t like! Makes perfect sense! And when Thief is rendered useless, whose next, Mesmer? Then when the QQers are done with Mesmer, whose next, Necromancer? Ranger? Guardian? In fact, I have the perfect solution; let’s just remove all the classes, except warrior from the game, since the warrior class is clearly the only class that is completely perfect as is!

Haven’t all the professions you listed been nerfed or tweaked? Mesmer clone generation and line of sight come to mind. That really isn’t helping your argument.

Don’t you think it’s just a little extreme when you do a 3K Steal and a 7.5K Backstab on a toughness build (more than 1700 toughness)? “B-but!” Thieves cry. “That’s only for a glass cannon spec! Surely you’ll strike back and we’ll die in 5 hits!” This may have been the case if it wasn’t for stealth. It makes it easy to run away from a fight and try again. That’s where the major problem lies. That and Caltrops.

Kaleygh.1524:

Dynia.9574:

ok next class I took necro heavy conditioner/tank with mm build killed ppls they called me op

I actually thought you are serious untill I read this lol.
I`m willing to call you out on this and show you that your “Hair conditioner/tank mm” can be facerolled by any class, no matter the spec.
You`re just another thief wannabe pro who just spills crap on the forum trying to defend their garbage class. Go in wvw and tell me how well you can fight a thief when you only get to see them for 2 seconds because of Anets crappy engine.
You also mention that thieves are the only ones allowed to wear berserker gear… this just goes to show how clueless and biased you are.
PS – A conditioner is something that improves the quality of another material. I doubt condition damage has anything to do with that)

you can 1v1 any time with my necro and you will tell me after is he rly that weak …
I can change minons to any other skills, main point is he is conditioner who stand long time minons is only for life steal

I don’t def thiefs, I just talking about balance and ppls QQ if they nerf invis is better for me, I just said about what ppls do they get owned by anything and said it op and need nerf

and ppls need rly end with “omg he used this he is noob” minons is rly good if you know how to use them p/p on thief too

and btw I never have probs with thiefs even they invis too much on spvp or wvwvw, I kill them like flys, they just can’t kill any my hero on 3 hits combo (I dodge or def it or absorb dmg etc) depons what class im playing, i just KNOW how to COUNTER them that all

I play memser thief (without any invis with p/p build) guardian necro and engi for now and sometimes with my warrior with sword/sword for fun ^^

I play with all classes, so this post isn’t really a hating on thief post.

Lately, in my WvWing and PVPing, and even PVEing to a lesser extent, I encounter almost identical thief play.

I think the main problem with thief is it glorifies a certain build type more than anything else. Even when I started playing thief, doing double damage with Backstab was amazing. I felt like I had to use Backstab, somehow, in some way. And I think that’s mainly the problem. People feel the need to incorporate it a lot, and I think other builds/weapons need love for thieves. All last night in a 6 hour session of WvW, I fought the same thief who only had different appearances.

I fought the basilisk venom, daggers, stealth it up thief. The reason stealth is so prevalent in these builds, is because they feel the need to activate backstab as much as possible (These particular thieves.) That was my problem starting out with thief. It’s a pitfall, because eventually, you seek to increase backstab damage at any cost. You figure “Since I’m a thief, I can sacrifice HP because I can just stealth and kill them them easily.” This is a pitfall mistake. I recently changed to a Sword/Pistol thief, with whatever alternate set of weapons. My build is mainly focused on shadow stepping and disabling. (Whether cripple, stun, daze, blind, etc.)

I’m not saying Backstab is over powered, I’m just saying that other build options need to be strengthened up a bit and given some love. My Guardian is 100% supportive, and I have no problem killing glass cannon thieves.

It’s just so terribly boring seeing the same thieves over and over again. Run away, stealth, basilisk, try so very hard to get a backstab hit, and then heart seeker to death. If that doesn’t work, simply retreat and try it all again. I’m not saying it’s terrible, it does a lot of damage, is “Safe” if they don’t know you’re there and aren’t specced defensively.

But even as a thief player, I find it all so boring, so fast. I love my sword/pistol build to death, especially since I can mass shadowstep to catch any fleeing enemy and snare them. It’s amazingly fun to use. I just find it sad that so many thieves aren’t utilizing all of their tools to come up with fun, interesting, and innovative builds. One thief I fought outside of Ehmry Keep, repeatedly tried to harass me with Basilisk venom. But she ran away the second I blocked her initial backstab/basilisk attack. She didn’t feel like she could win if that one combo didn’t get off properly, and she simply ran.

So my only criticism of the thief isn’t gonna be “Omg lol nerf so much damage.” I don’t care about stealth, it’s easy to predict what a thief will do based on his remaining HP, your remaining HP, presence of allies, environment, and more. My only criticism of the thief is the backstabbing is glorified, and because of that, it’s overused. While P/P thieves are hardly existent in WvW.

I hope thieves will be made more versatile in the future.

Highest dps, perma stealth and best mobility all in one class with one build? Don’t you think that’s a bit imbalanced? Oh, don’t forget decent cc too.

I believe it was mentionned already but, i started using tripwire for a while since this skill has some interesting potential to set up a burst, interrupting and kitting.

Unfortunately, it fails to activate properly very often.
At firts i thought this was because of wars or guardians under stability, then i saw, many times, thieves running straight into it, activating it and not being knocked down or crippled, RTL eles goings right through it to me only being trapped 1/2 of the time and so forth.

Can someone confirm tripwire is not working as intended or am i doing it wrong ?

All the rectangular shaped spells we got that apply a debuff on the people standing in it only work in a small circle in the middle of a diameter around half the total length of the trap.

Kirito.8796:

I don’t see why this class has a completely different mechanic to all others, the initiative system. Why erase CD’s for one class? surely it’d be hard to balance a class that has spammable skills.

1. spammable evades
2. spammable aoe bombs
3. spammable teleports
4. spammable stealth
5. spammable stun breaks
6. spammable gap closers
7. spammable dazes

Every single one of the things above is a must have on a utility or is on a weapon skill with a CD for every other class.

Infinity initiative ? 90% of the people who write here have absolutely no idea how the thief works.

Columba.9730:

Highest dps, perma stealth and best mobility all in one class with one build? Don’t you think that’s a bit imbalanced? Oh, don’t forget decent cc too.

Why do so many say thieves have the “best mobility”? Wouldn’t it be more accurate if you said we used our inherent mobility more? Because a Warrior (so I’ve been told) can have permanent 33% speed boost and elementalists can get even faster by changing attunements and weapons out of battle, but in battle a thief has to and by the nature of his skills just happens to move a lot more than most other classes. A warrior will move a bit in battle, but only in straight lines through and to his opponent. An elementalist will go in circles, strafing his opponent and dodging any AoE’s or large spikes. All the classes follow this, they all move in a pattern, except the thief who bounces all over the place, changing directions and positions and weapon styles (D/D to SB changes entirely how a thief moves).

So don’t complain to us that thieves have the highest mobility, they just move the most erratically “IN BATTLE”, out of battle a thief will often arrive second or third to a fight if running along side others unless skills like “Windborn Speed” which buff us up to the 33% (we have no natural Swiftness)

ryodanspider.4180:

My opinion, way to many means to stealth in combat. I never seen a game where a class can constantly come in and out of stealth with such ease.

This. It doesnt go together with huge damage. basically if you go out of stealth you should be unable to make a quick escape from whatever situation 3 seconds later. If you fail at picking a good engage you should be punished, not be able to press a button to get out of whatever situation. The disengage of thieves is far too strong for the damage and engagement possibilities.

Kirito.8796:

Evilek.5690:

Kirito.8796:

I don’t see why this class has a completely different mechanic to all others, the initiative system. Why erase CD’s for one class? surely it’d be hard to balance a class that has spammable skills.

1. spammable evades
2. spammable aoe bombs
3. spammable teleports
4. spammable stealth
5. spammable stun breaks
6. spammable gap closers
7. spammable dazes

Every single one of the things above is a must have on a utility or is on a weapon skill with a CD for every other class.

Infinity initiative ? 90% of the people who write here have absolutely no idea how the thief works.

I have a thief, I know how it works. with a condition p/d set you can use cnd constantly after the revealed buff is lifted. what other class gets to use there 5 skill that often? none.

And how many CnD’s can you pull off during a fight? To get the stealth with CnD you have to hit at 130 range, a simple dodge will negate 6 of your initiative and put you in an awkward position.

Here’s what I would like to see, personally.

First make it so they can’t sustain stealth throughout the entire duration of a fight. Revealed debuff should apply even if you wait for the stealth to end naturally. Stealth bugs should be fixed too.

Then wait and see how things shake out. Keep an eye on their ability to escape from fights. Something I’d like to see is more indication of the thief getting hit during stealth; if I hit him with my sword I should see a blood splatter, maybe an extremely short reveal, like a quarter of a second would be enough.

As for PvE:

They are great in dungeons from what I’ve seen. I don’t think any changes are needed. I play with a lot of different players in dungeons and most of the thieves I play with are really useful.

Khristophoros.7194:

First make it so they can’t sustain stealth throughout the entire duration of a fight. Revealed debuff should apply even if you wait for the stealth to end naturally. Stealth bugs should be fixed too.

A bit harsh, it’s like saying that a Guardian shouldn’t be able to recharge their virtues in battle. A Thief will do one of two things when going into stealth: 1) set up for their next attack (1-2 second wait till they’ll unstealth and will stay in melee range) or 2) retreat to “reset the fight”. In either situation retreating and setting down CC to limit their mobility will stop they from taking the advantage in the fight. If they attack they have to walk through your AoE’s and give you fields to combo with if they retreat to range. Don’t stop fighting unless you really think the thief has left, in which case, you’ve just WON. The thief couldn’t beat you and had to flee, why do you crave killing them so much? You won the fight, now go fight something else so you can get the phallic satisfaction of thrusting your decorated shaft into their still submissive body.

Khristophoros.7194:

Then wait and see how things shake out. Keep an eye on their ability to escape from fights. Something I’d like to see is more indication of the thief getting hit during stealth; if I hit him with my sword I should see a blood splatter, maybe an extremely short reveal, like a quarter of a second would be enough.

I agree with this part though, a particle effect to show them being hit is needed, cause only having on hit buffs activate as of writing will let you know you hit a Thief. A more visible one if you land a critical, probably have the shadow step particle effect, it’s already visibly tied to the Thief and it’s gameplay.

Kirito.8796:

Evilek.5690:

Kirito.8796:

I don’t see why this class has a completely different mechanic to all others, the initiative system. Why erase CD’s for one class? surely it’d be hard to balance a class that has spammable skills.

1. spammable evades
2. spammable aoe bombs
3. spammable teleports
4. spammable stealth
5. spammable stun breaks
6. spammable gap closers
7. spammable dazes

Every single one of the things above is a must have on a utility or is on a weapon skill with a CD for every other class.

Infinity initiative ? 90% of the people who write here have absolutely no idea how the thief works.

I have a thief, I know how it works. with a condition p/d set you can use cnd constantly after the revealed buff is lifted. what other class gets to use there 5 skill that often? none.

Each class you can use TEN skill in a row,Elementalis 20+ skills,Enginer 20+ skills,but only THIEF use 2-4 skills and his initiative is ZERO—→ CD on all skills.

Overworld.9613:

Khristophoros.7194:

First make it so they can’t sustain stealth throughout the entire duration of a fight. Revealed debuff should apply even if you wait for the stealth to end naturally. Stealth bugs should be fixed too.

A bit harsh, it’s like saying that a Guardian shouldn’t be able to recharge their virtues in battle. A Thief will do one of two things when going into stealth: 1) set up for their next attack (1-2 second wait till they’ll unstealth and will stay in melee range) or 2) retreat to “reset the fight”. In either situation retreating and setting down CC to limit their mobility will stop they from taking the advantage in the fight. If they attack they have to walk through your AoE’s and give you fields to combo with if they retreat to range. Don’t stop fighting unless you really think the thief has left, in which case, you’ve just WON. The thief couldn’t beat you and had to flee, why do you crave killing them so much? You won the fight, now go fight something else so you can get the phallic satisfaction of thrusting your decorated shaft into their still submissive body.

I don’t understand the guardian comparison. Guardians can’t get aegis every time you try to attack them. They have a meaningful downtime on this powerful boon which would be totally broken if they didn’t.

And it’s not about wanting the satisfaction of killing them. I’m talking in terms of WvW. So if I run into a thief, I just run away. Trying to fight is pointless because the worst case scenario for the thief is that he escapes and we both just wasted time on each other. The worst case scenario for me is that I die. There is no possibility of victory for me because I cannot kill a good thief. They can always escape. That doesn’t mean I won because we both wasted the same amount of time on the fight.

Now, luckily I play sword/horn warrior, so I am capable of escaping from thieves. Some characters simply are not. I didn’t bother to give feedback on the thief’s extremely powerful chasing ability because I think that’s cool. But the problem is that the thief isn’t putting anything on the line and it’s extremely hard to fight him at all because he can be invisible whenever he wants. He only shows himself briefly to attack before stealthing again. His opponent can’t manage a meaningful retaliation if he makes sure never to have the revealed debuff on him.

I don’t know, maybe fixing the bugs with stealth would be enough. Waiting for the stealth to end so that you don’t get the debuff at least comes at an opportunity cost. The one thing I’m sure if is the bug needs to go and we can’t really tell what else is needed until that happens.

1.6 sec per initiative is base. That is 20 second recharge on whole bar, not just one skill.
2x CnD = 8 skills on recharge.
I’ve been stuck in pvp for quite some time now. And, face it, BS-builded thieves are long extinct in spvp (they literally cannot do ANYTHING there) and so old in WvW.
BS thieves exist in wvw not because they are op, but because there are always thousands of glassy, sleepy and blind people running around alone in wvw maps.

stof.9341:

All the rectangular shaped spells we got that apply a debuff on the people standing in it only work in a small circle in the middle of a diameter around half the total length of the trap.

Well here is to hope it will get fixed soon™

I really believe tripwire in particular has a lot to offer.

Dynia.9574:

Azzan.1650:

The worst is the p/s condi, how am i supposed to counter this stupid spec as a gardian ?

Just remove this stupid class.

if you get owned by some class or buid that mean you do something wrong or you are bad pvp palyer, if you get owned by some class dosen’t mean is stupid its just you.

Guardian qq about thief is op ? rly ? ROFL

ofc its troll post who want get thiefs nerf
2nd of all im not thief defender im just fair judger cause I play 5 classes on pvp right now some times 6

I dont complain about d/d thief, just learn to read. I said there is no way to beat a ranged thief condi 95% invisi of the time.

Azzan.1650:

Dynia.9574:

Azzan.1650:

The worst is the p/s condi, how am i supposed to counter this stupid spec as a gardian ?

Just remove this stupid class.

if you get owned by some class or buid that mean you do something wrong or you are bad pvp palyer, if you get owned by some class dosen’t mean is stupid its just you.

Guardian qq about thief is op ? rly ? ROFL

ofc its troll post who want get thiefs nerf
2nd of all im not thief defender im just fair judger cause I play 5 classes on pvp right now some times 6

I dont complain about d/d thief, just learn to read. I said there is no way to beat a ranged thief condi 95% invisi of the time.

95 % stealth uptime = 5 % DPS uptime = Thief won’t even do enough damage to break regen you can get from food.

Of course in reality it is more like 40 % stealth uptime + 10 % time spent in culling + 10 % more time you spend fumbling around reacquiring targets. Culling should be fixed, and the last part can be reduced by no longer relying on tab-target to fight. At which point you’re facing an enemy that can only attack you 60 % of the time and which you can attack 100 % of the time, whether you choose to press that advantage is up to you.

Here’s what’s wrong with your Thief.

*it’s not fun to play against (the biggest issue because if it’s not fun for both players then it’s not worth two kittens.)
*has the best survivability, burst, and condition
*doesn’t need to sacrafice damage/precision for toughness/vitality to stay alive like other classes
*access to massive exploits via inf arrow
*no cooldowns
*stealth/healing/ini regen bunched together on multiple skills/utilities
*easy instagib combos commonly tied to macros
*deals damage in stealth
*thieves guild+stealth
*free op skills designed to specifically counter the class stolen from

Panther Chameleon.8465:

Here’s what’s wrong with your Thief.

*it’s not fun to play against (the biggest issue because if it’s not fun for both players then it’s not worth two kittens.)
*has the best survivability, burst, and condition
*doesn’t need to sacrafice damage/precision for toughness/vitality to stay alive like other classes
*access to massive exploits via inf arrow
*no cooldowns
*stealth/healing/ini regen bunched together on multiple skills/utilities
*easy instagib combos commonly tied to macros
*deals damage in stealth
*thieves guild+stealth
*free op skills designed to specifically counter the class stolen from

Good story.

First time go play for Thief (more than 300 hours) and then to write on this forum

Panther Chameleon.8465:

*free op skills designed to specifically counter the class stolen from

This is particularly true, there’s nothing more useful than being right on top of a warrior and reflecting the ranged shots they’ll obviously be firing from point-blank, not to mention the pure havoc that Chaos Armor will wreak against an engineer.

Tulisin.6945:

Panther Chameleon.8465:

*free op skills designed to specifically counter the class stolen from

This is particularly true, there’s nothing more useful than being right on top of a warrior and reflecting the ranged shots they’ll obviously be firing from point-blank, not to mention the pure havoc that Chaos Armor will wreak against an engineer.

As well as planting trees so this ranger in front of you knows you love nature too so don’t shoot me bro.

So the other day I was saying how there is a thief build that can kill me in 0.5-1 second and people said I was lying. Well I decided to get proof on this build and found someone who was willing to help, It takes 1 second to chunk me from full health to 0.

Enjoy the power of the burst.

For those interested in my stats:
1653 – Toughness
2572 – Armor

Bunzy.8674:

So the other day I was saying how there is a thief build that can kill me in 0.5-1 second and people said I was lying. Well I decided to get proof on this build and found someone who was willing to help, It takes 1 second to chunk me from full health to 0.

Enjoy the power of the burst.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0Zw8vNJVvg

For those interested in my stats:
1653 – Toughness
2572 – Armor

Exactly the same happened to me today, the first time I’ve seen something like that – and a lot of Thieves have tried to kill me in the past. The perfection of the execution let me to wonder if there is a macro for this kind of stuff. Hit a key and BOOOM.

Bunzy.8674:

So the other day I was saying how there is a thief build that can kill me in 0.5-1 second and people said I was lying. Well I decided to get proof on this build and found someone who was willing to help, It takes 1 second to chunk me from full health to 0.

Enjoy the power of the burst.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0Zw8vNJVvg

For those interested in my stats:
1653 – Toughness
2572 – Armor

Under the perfect conditions a glass cannon thief can burst someone down very quickly, it’s true for most classes when they go glass cannon. But it does take the perfect conditions to down even a squishy as an elementalist as fast as you say. Your video even displays this a bit, as I can see that previous to the three hits that downed you, that you had a a rather large number of attempts by the thief to kill you as fast as you want to display.

I have played a thief as my main since launch. I also have an 80 warrior, and 80 ranger. With all 3 I have full exotic offensive and defensive sets and have played many many hours in WvW with all 3 so I have a good idea of damage capability and defensive/survival capability with all 3.

All I can say is to all of the people saying “if you nerf thief the class will be unplayable” all need to just mellow and chill and stop being overdramatic.

I never use backstab or heartseeker builds because it just feels cruel to do that to people. It EXPLODES anyone without toughness and even against a target with 3700 armor heartseeker spam in it’s current state can do over 30k damage in a few seconds. (if you don’t believe me you don’t know thieves very well)

Now i’m sure some people here will call me a liar or L2P or whatever lame childish excuse people give. The point is I have played both types, I know for a fact what thieves are capable of and they are the most over powered direct damage dealing class, and it has nothing to do with stealth.

In my opinion they could nerf thieves overall direct damage by 30% and thieves would still be above par compared to other direct damage classes. Notice i’m only saying direct damage. Condition damage builds are fine as there are already plenty of ways to counter any condition damage build for any class. (again if you don’t know play more)

I welcome any nerfs for thieves they give us.

Thadren Calder.1397:

In my opinion they could nerf thieves overall direct damage by 30% and thieves would still be above par compared to other direct damage classes.

You fail at game balancing and it’s fortunate that you aren’t charged of doing it for ArenaNet.

You know how a warrior dealt me 10k damage in a single Whirlwind Attack that somehow hit me 5 times for 2k damage each? It was nearly instantly too.

Thadren Calder.1397:

I have played a thief as my main since launch. I also have an 80 warrior, and 80 ranger. With all 3 I have full exotic offensive and defensive sets and have played many many hours in WvW with all 3 so I have a good idea of damage capability and defensive/survival capability with all 3.

All I can say is to all of the people saying “if you nerf thief the class will be unplayable” all need to just mellow and chill and stop being overdramatic.

I never use backstab or heartseeker builds because it just feels cruel to do that to people. It EXPLODES anyone without toughness and even against a target with 3700 armor heartseeker spam in it’s current state can do over 30k damage in a few seconds. (if you don’t believe me you don’t know thieves very well)

Now i’m sure some people here will call me a liar or L2P or whatever lame childish excuse people give. The point is I have played both types,and I know for a fact what thieves are capable of and they are the move over powered damage dealing class, and it has nothing to do with stealth.

In my opinion they could nerf thieves overall direct damage by 30% and thieves would still be above par compared to other direct damage classes. Notice i’m only saying direct damage. Condition damage builds are fine as there are already plenty of ways to counter any condition damage build for any class. (again if you don’t know play more)

Why are you dismissing anyone who doesn’t believe your claims? Please provide something beyond heartseeker can do 30k damage in a few (3) second, if you don’t believe me then you don’t know what you’re talking about. I really can’t believe how many people make these extravagant claims but don’t back them up at all. Be more like Bunzy, at least he’s trying to prove his point with something beyond hearsay.

Do I really need to give other examples of thief skills that can do over 30k damage in a few seconds? Really? Lets see…. Unload and cluster bomb comes to mind.

These are the comments I expected. Trying to prove anything in these forums is meaningless. People always have an excuse. I’m just giving my opinion on the class.

My main is a thief and I would be fine with nerfs, how many other thieves can say that and still be confident with playing the class?

stof.9341:

Thadren Calder.1397:

In my opinion they could nerf thieves overall direct damage by 30% and thieves would still be above par compared to other direct damage classes.

You fail at game balancing and it’s fortunate that you aren’t charged of doing it for ArenaNet.

You know how a warrior dealt me 10k damage in a single Whirlwind Attack that somehow hit me 5 times for 2k damage each? It was nearly instantly too.

What build were you using? The damage numbers I quote are against 3500 armor with just using heartseeker, would you like me to go test whirlwind against the same armor and see if it’s 10k? Would that make you feel better?

Thadren Calder.1397:

Do I really need to give other examples of thief skills that can do over 30k damage in a few seconds? Really? Lets see…. Unload and cluster bomb comes to mind.

These are the comments I expected. Trying to prove anything in these forums is meaningless. People always have an excuse. I’m just giving my opinion on the class.

My main is a thief and I would be fine with nerfs, how many other thieves can say that and still be confident with playing the class?

It actually isn’t hard to prove something, go make a video of yourself doing 30 thousand damage in under 3 seconds on the PvP dummies while using heart seeker, if it’s as easy as you claim then you should be able to do it right? Ah, but it’s just an opinion now and you have no proof, which is fine but you shouldn’t be posting it phrased as a fact. It isn’t a fact, it’s your opinion and everyone has one.

Aratoa.7398:

Bunzy.8674:

So the other day I was saying how there is a thief build that can kill me in 0.5-1 second and people said I was lying. Well I decided to get proof on this build and found someone who was willing to help, It takes 1 second to chunk me from full health to 0.

Enjoy the power of the burst.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0Zw8vNJVvg

For those interested in my stats:
1653 – Toughness
2572 – Armor

Under the perfect conditions a glass cannon thief can burst someone down very quickly, it’s true for most classes when they go glass cannon. But it does take the perfect conditions to down even a squishy as an elementalist as fast as you say. Your video even displays this a bit, as I can see that previous to the three hits that downed you, that you had a a rather large number of attempts by the thief to kill you as fast as you want to display.

If you want I could get this done 3 times in a row and you would see each of the time it’s a similar result. The previous hits you are talking about is when I was testing to see how much damage heartseeker could do from 100 to 0. Everytime the burst combo was used on me I died in 1-1.5 seconds.

Bunzy.8674:

Aratoa.7398:

Bunzy.8674:

So the other day I was saying how there is a thief build that can kill me in 0.5-1 second and people said I was lying. Well I decided to get proof on this build and found someone who was willing to help, It takes 1 second to chunk me from full health to 0.

Enjoy the power of the burst.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0Zw8vNJVvg

For those interested in my stats:
1653 – Toughness
2572 – Armor

Under the perfect conditions a glass cannon thief can burst someone down very quickly, it’s true for most classes when they go glass cannon. But it does take the perfect conditions to down even a squishy as an elementalist as fast as you say. Your video even displays this a bit, as I can see that previous to the three hits that downed you, that you had a a rather large number of attempts by the thief to kill you as fast as you want to display.

If you want I could get this done 3 times in a row and you would see each of the time it’s a similar result. The previous hits you are talking about is when I was testing to see how much damage heartseeker could do from 100 to 0. Everytime the burst combo was used on me I died in 1-1.5 seconds.

I would love it if you had this done it three times in a row continuously with an uncut video. It being easily repeatable makes for an even stronger argument. I have a problem with the single shot videos, as it’s pretty easy to simply do something repeatedly till you have the desired result and then cut the video to show only what you want (not saying you did this). Thank you for explaining the previous hits btw. I do agree with you to an extent, Thieves can definitely dish out the burst and the squishier/more unprepared the opponent, the more damage that is possible. I don’t really see this as a problem because these perfect conditions ‘should’ be relatively rare.

But let’s consider that during actual fighting, how likely are you to find someone who has no defenses and is completely unprepare/not moving? I’m sure it’s a depressingly high amount but it shouldn’t be happening. If you were fighting as normal, do you think he would have been able to pull off the same attack to the same extent?

Thadren Calder.1397:

Do I really need to give other examples of thief skills that can do over 30k damage in a few seconds? Really? Lets see…. Unload and cluster bomb comes to mind.

30k with Clusterbomb in “a few seconds”?

By a “a few seconds” do you actually mean 7-10 attacks? (If so, that’s a long time.)

Or does “30k damage” actually mean “6k spread around to a bunch of different targets”? (If so, that’s not at all the same as “30k damage.”)

Aratoa.7398:

Thadren Calder.1397:

Do I really need to give other examples of thief skills that can do over 30k damage in a few seconds? Really? Lets see…. Unload and cluster bomb comes to mind.

These are the comments I expected. Trying to prove anything in these forums is meaningless. People always have an excuse. I’m just giving my opinion on the class.

My main is a thief and I would be fine with nerfs, how many other thieves can say that and still be confident with playing the class?

It actually isn’t hard to prove something, go make a video of yourself doing 30 thousand damage in under 3 seconds on the PvP dummies while using heart seeker, if it’s as easy as you claim then you should be able to do it right? Ah, but it’s just an opinion now and you have no proof, which is fine but you shouldn’t be posting it phrased as a fact. It isn’t a fact, it’s your opinion and everyone has one.

/agree I would love to see this 30k damage in a few secs. We could use a nerf in some area but a 30% direct damage nerf is going to kill this class.

You mean the PvP dummies for sPvP in the mists where the damage numbers aren’t even close to what you get in WvW ya….that makes sense….. here is a good example, grab a warrior. Go find those dummies and time yourself and see which kills faster, sword or axe. The results will say sword. Now goto WvW and see what the real damage numbers are and tell me that for damage numbers alone sword is better. I’m not talking about mobility/usefullness other then actual damage. Or better yet, have your own level 80’s fully geared and go see for yourself the damage numbers. None of the info i have provided has anything to do with sPvP.

As for proof? How many threads have been made come and gone that have tried to prove something in this game, how many are taken seriously? All anyone can do is give their opinion. Too bad when people do others just complain, whine, cry, oh lets not forget the drama. My case and point is this conversation.

ASP.8093:

Thadren Calder.1397:

Do I really need to give other examples of thief skills that can do over 30k damage in a few seconds? Really? Lets see…. Unload and cluster bomb comes to mind.

30k with Clusterbomb in “a few seconds”?

By a “a few seconds” do you actually mean 7-10 attacks? (If so, that’s a long time.)

Or does “30k damage” actually mean “6k spread around to a bunch of different targets”? (If so, that’s not at all the same as “30k damage.”)

No as in 30k+ damage to 1 target, multiple targets, it doesnt matter. 15+ stacks of might, shadowstep onto the enemy and just shoot the ground. Getting the damage numbers is easy if you wanna do it in a few seconds add haste.

Shortbow is my favorite weapon for a thief. Out of all the nerf we might get the only one that would sadden me would be clusterbomb. Even though it’s needed. I know people say its bad because it travels slow or doesnt have 1200 range but that’s not where the ability’s strength lies.

brandon.6735:

Aratoa.7398:

Thadren Calder.1397:

Do I really need to give other examples of thief skills that can do over 30k damage in a few seconds? Really? Lets see…. Unload and cluster bomb comes to mind.

These are the comments I expected. Trying to prove anything in these forums is meaningless. People always have an excuse. I’m just giving my opinion on the class.

My main is a thief and I would be fine with nerfs, how many other thieves can say that and still be confident with playing the class?

It actually isn’t hard to prove something, go make a video of yourself doing 30 thousand damage in under 3 seconds on the PvP dummies while using heart seeker, if it’s as easy as you claim then you should be able to do it right? Ah, but it’s just an opinion now and you have no proof, which is fine but you shouldn’t be posting it phrased as a fact. It isn’t a fact, it’s your opinion and everyone has one.

/agree I would love to see this 30k damage in a few secs. We could use a nerf in some area but a 30% direct damage nerf is going to kill this class.

I will agree that this kind of nerf would kill defensive builds or any thief that isnt built for crit damage and of course this wouldn’t work by just straight reducing damage. I should have said if there was a way to reduce “crit builds” damage by 30% without negativily affecting someone who is specced power/tough/vit for example i would be fine with that.

Another example (sorry opinion i don’t want to offend anyone) is i do 3 times more damage on a crit then non crit. So 700 non crit 2100 crit. Now if 90% of my attacks are crits thats great! And sure for all classes this is fair and fine and doesn’t really seem like that much damage right? Now give me an ability that hits for 2k but crits for 6k and lets also give me the ability to hit with it 6 times in a row. While we’re at it lets make it so i can do this to multiple targets at once, oh and lets then add the fact that each use will heal me for up to 2k. (before the drama starts i might as well just say this now. With healing signet and omnomberry pie using clusterbomb on multiple targets and detonating early so get max number of hits to proc the omnomberry pie since it has no cooldown will nearly keep me full health for the entire combo while being attacked) To top it off i’ll finish with a daggerstorm, and by the time thats done have all my initiative back to again hit all targets around me 6 times for 2-6k. Now can thieves really say this is fair and balanced? Again this is only my opinion and none of this relates to sPvP.

And since this is only my opinion and i’m not providing proof I hope no one goes and uses this. :P

Thadren Calder.1397:

I have played a thief as my main since launch. I also have an 80 warrior, and 80 ranger. With all 3 I have full exotic offensive and defensive sets and have played many many hours in WvW with all 3 so I have a good idea of damage capability and defensive/survival capability with all 3.

All I can say is to all of the people saying “if you nerf thief the class will be unplayable” all need to just mellow and chill and stop being overdramatic.

I never use backstab or heartseeker builds because it just feels cruel to do that to people. It EXPLODES anyone without toughness and even against a target with 3700 armor heartseeker spam in it’s current state can do over 30k damage in a few seconds. (if you don’t believe me you don’t know thieves very well)

Now i’m sure some people here will call me a liar or L2P or whatever lame childish excuse people give. The point is I have played both types, I know for a fact what thieves are capable of and they are the most over powered direct damage dealing class, and it has nothing to do with stealth.

In my opinion they could nerf thieves overall direct damage by 30% and thieves would still be above par compared to other direct damage classes. Notice i’m only saying direct damage. Condition damage builds are fine as there are already plenty of ways to counter any condition damage build for any class. (again if you don’t know play more)

I welcome any nerfs for thieves they give us.

As it is right now the builds people cry about the most is p/d condition build that spends most of the time in stealth and can pretty much escape at will and the burst build d/d that is a paper tiger for the most part.

The problem is people are confusing the two builds, they fight a theif that is porting around and kitten them off. Then later they get dropped hard by a different theif and just assume its all the same.

You say nerf dps but don’t want to touch the condi build?

Did anyone think that Anet is ok with this type of damage? Examples would be things like kill shot (see 16k and 20k before) and 100 blades. Also 6k AoE hits (up to 30k if you hit 5).

If you nerf the big damage classes then it pushes people into full condition and bunker builds. It’s a fine line to walk and well people don’t like burst classes but would full pow/vit/cond damage builds on every class be better or more fun? Besides it would negate any reason to have precision, prowess and toughness.

Now is the problem with the condition build the damage or the stealth? I think the damage is fine it’s the stealth that most people have the problem with. My posts are for the damage side of thieves not stealth. Stealth causes so many conversation of it’s own I just wanted to talk about the damage side. If a condition build thief never stealthed how much of a problem would they be?

Thadren Calder.1397:

You mean the PvP dummies for sPvP in the mists where the damage numbers aren’t even close to what you get in WvW ya….that makes sense.

You are aware that the game is not and likely never will be balanced around WvW, right? By its very nature it is completely unbalanced, simply because it allows gear from PvE.

sPvP by definition is a controlled environment striving for balanced pvp. WvWvW is pretty much anything goes.

So if you are here to complain about thief in WvWvW, I am afraid you are likely outta luck. Because the main imbalance from thieves in WvWvW is that they are allowed 100+ crit damage from their equipment and it has very little to do with actual the class balance.

I know I am going to be complained about, but I decided to take everyone’s advice, I rolled a thief for WvW. After getting it up and playing with it for a while I am amazed at how powerful the class is (both with d/d and p/d) and how easy it is to play them (I can win most fights by pushing only 3-4 abilities). Stealth is a ridiculously good defense and the offense a thief brings is great and if the fight isn’t going well it is so easy to leave. I am also amazed that missing your attack with back stab doesn’t break stealth, that is just ridiculous.

Playing a thief did help me counter them better, but that only helps me live a bit longer, I still can’t beat a good thief because it is so easy for them to disengage and reset the fight.

But after leveling and trying the class, I still think the thief is over powered.

Alice.8694:

Thadren Calder.1397:

You mean the PvP dummies for sPvP in the mists where the damage numbers aren’t even close to what you get in WvW ya….that makes sense.

You are aware that the game is not and likely never will be balanced around WvW, right? By its very nature it is completely unbalanced, simply because it allows gear from PvE.

sPvP by definition is a controlled environment striving for balanced pvp. WvWvW is pretty much anything goes.

So if you are here to complain about thief in WvWvW, I am afraid you are likely outta luck. Because the main imbalance from thieves in WvWvW is that they are allowed 100+ crit damage from their equipment and it has very little to do with actual the class balance.

Yes I know this but all the complaints and drama unfolding over thieves isn’t really sPvP based anymore since they have been working on that with nerfs that only effect sPvP. I also agree that crit dmg is the problem. but if you lower it for all classes it hurts the other classes more. Spammable abilities with crit damage is what causes the problem. No i don’t want them to rework the initiative system and no I don’t have an easy answer for solution but that still doesn’t change how powerful it is.

Also i’m not complaining about thieves in WvW lol it’s my main and the term “faceroll” doesn’t even begin to describe how easy thief is to play.

In WvWvW, thieves can exploit the culling bug to remain perma stealthed and dish out the highest dps. They also can move the fastest. Literally, some thieves can never nbe seen for entire fights. God mode.

Not really. D/D elementalists move faster than your average thief. I don’t see perma stealthed thieves either, but the culling bug is there (.5s of delay before I see them). I have a trick on thieves though so culling hardly affects how well I kill them (tab target or bind a key to target nearest. I can target them when they’re just barely fading in). Definitely not God mode .

Columba.9730:

In WvWvW, thieves can exploit the culling bug to remain perma stealthed and dish out the highest dps. They also can move the fastest. Literally, some thieves can never nbe seen for entire fights. God mode.

You probably believe they can shoot fireballs from their eyes and bolts of lightning from their a55 too.

Plz, stop making up crap. You only make yourself look silly.

With regard to thief in WvW, it feels the rendering issues make stealth a much more powerful ability than it should be. I understand one of the main designs of the thief is to control when and where to fight which is the main reason why I play as one, but it does seem a bit unfair that I am essentially in stealth for a few extra seconds due to the rendering issues. Add to that fact the many ways to get in and out of stealth and it results in what people are essentially calling “perma stealth”. Some ideas for addressing this:

1. Make the revealed condition last a bit longer. Force the thief to fight for a while (8-10 seconds?) after an opening attack and it will make them more selective about when to use stealth.

2. Prioritize the stealthed thieves when it comes to deciding who to render.

Azzan.1650:

The worst is the p/s condi, how am i supposed to counter this stupid spec as a gardian ?

Just remove this stupid class.

Azzan.1650:

Dynia.9574:

Azzan.1650:

The worst is the p/s condi, how am i supposed to counter this stupid spec as a gardian ?

Just remove this stupid class.

if you get owned by some class or buid that mean you do something wrong or you are bad pvp palyer, if you get owned by some class dosen’t mean is stupid its just you.

Guardian qq about thief is op ? rly ? ROFL

ofc its troll post who want get thiefs nerf
2nd of all im not thief defender im just fair judger cause I play 5 classes on pvp right now some times 6

I dont complain about d/d thief, just learn to read. I said there is no way to beat a ranged thief condi 95% invisi of the time.

We’ll learn to read when you learn to post. Thieves are unable to wield Pistol/Sword (unless you are talking about Sword/Pistol…in which case I’m sorry to inform you that that build is not a condition one by any means). I’m pretty sure you are talking about Pistol/Dagger, but if you are going to tell someone L2R, please make sure you aren’t quoting yourself saying something that is flat out wrong and not possible.

I agree, if the thief is invisible 95% of the time he will be hard to kill. But he won’t be much of a threat either…At best you are looking at about 58% uptime on stealth if he is trying to kill you. 4 seconds of stealth, 3 seconds revealed. up to an aditional 1/2 second to CnD, and that’s assuming he is able to land CnD the moment the revealed debuff ends.