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Posted by: Shinobi.3240

Shinobi.3240

Hello everyone!

Lets get to the point, i want to ask you if you are happy with the adjustments we got in this balance update ?

Do you think it improved the gameplay in PvE /PvP /WvWvW ?

If you are happy tell us why.

If you are not tell us what you expected from the balance adjustments.

I am curious how the thief mains and thief twinks feel about the current situation we are in. Do you like the direction we are heading?

My two cents:

PvE:

  • DpS rotation is still super boring (Raids etc.)
  • no awesome group support option (Venoms…meh)

PvP:

  • Adressing the dodge spam problem is a good thing

WvWvW:

  • Can´t say much about wvwvw, lost interest in that gamemode long time ago.

Looking forward to your answers!

Best regards!

Shino

Shinobi Sicarius [ Thief / Lvl: 80 / PvP Rank: 250+]
[5/8 Champion Titles – Legendary Division] [19k+ AP]
[BEER – Dungeon Riders – Desolation]

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Posted by: Straegen.2938

Straegen.2938

For WvW, they made the Ghost Thief stronger and SoA went from a great skill to a really great skill. Everything else stays pretty much the same which is not good news.

Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”

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Posted by: Urejt.5648

Urejt.5648

I dont like there are no big changes.
It is strange they say bound can be interrupted because it is 3/4 s skill with 3/4 s evade time.
I dont like staff acro build removal.
Iam disapointed there is no pulmonary impact internal cooldown.
i like new voult animation.

Yo Hooj Jest Pole

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

For WvW, they made the Ghost Thief stronger and SoA went from a great skill to a really great skill. Everything else stays pretty much the same which is not good news.

They buffed other classes, so it is actually worse for us (pvp that is), it is too early to say though so just speculations atm but looking at numbers i feel like i will have to stay out of fights even more as thief now.
Ele (point holder) got mobility buffed, because druids RTLing on 18 sec CD wasn’t enough….to prevent any decaps~
Need to test out krait runes, i hope they fixed the exploit where it went through dodges.
Certainly, still not going to get any spot in raids on my thief(absolute lack of team utility for group content), back to mes and ele kek.

All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>

(edited by Cynz.9437)

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Posted by: ich.7086

ich.7086

Bound can be interrupted by the “do not cross” line like staff 5 on guard and maybe by shocking aura when you steal into it while you are dodging.

I Am An Intruder – War 80
Ich Bin Marc – Thief 80
All Your Dolyaks Are Belong To [Us] (Fort Ranik)

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Posted by: Shinobi.3240

Shinobi.3240

Oh yes i like the signet of agility buff a lot aswell.

Was hoping for a class specific raid buff like engineer got and some
interesting additions to our dps rotation.

Improvements to underused utilities etc.

I was really hoping for more. This micro adjustments every few month don´t cut it for me.

Best regards!

Shino

Shinobi Sicarius [ Thief / Lvl: 80 / PvP Rank: 250+]
[5/8 Champion Titles – Legendary Division] [19k+ AP]
[BEER – Dungeon Riders – Desolation]

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Posted by: Straegen.2938

Straegen.2938

They buffed other classes, so it is actually worse for us (pvp that is), it is too early to say though so just speculations atm but looking at numbers i feel like i will have to stay out of fights even more as thief now.

Clearly the thief was far too dominant in sPvP basically nuking everyone at the higher tiers.

Besides it isn’t like there is a low skill floor class (DH), that is very effective (DH) and spams group utility almost by accident (DH) that needs to take an arrow to the knee (DH).

Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”

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Posted by: swinsk.6410

swinsk.6410

It’s not this one patch that is and it’s the entire way of thinking anet has on balance…

First thief was blowing up people so they nerfed the burst damage. Then thief was stealthinh too much so they nerfed stealth. Then thief was evading too much so they nerfed evades. Then they added more evades and now nerfing theme again.

How does 2 condi clear make up for much larger endurance nerf?

I mean seriously, they need to get their heads out of their bums and really rethink the class. This class needs a complete overhaul. Oh and splitting nerfs from wvw to pvp is a horrible idea. The 4s revealed and 3s revealed is probably the worst thing anet has ever done. Why make a clas play completely differently in different game modes?

You can’t make everyone happy, just won’t happen. They need to make a decision and stick to it… either this game is going to be a pve game or pvp game. Make your choice anet…

Just another horrible patch in a long list of horrible patches…

Just another noob thief…

(edited by swinsk.6410)

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Posted by: Cecilia.5179

Cecilia.5179

They buffed Ghost thief… This makes me want WvW exclusive balance.

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Posted by: Geriatrics.5823

Geriatrics.5823

Making vault affected by quickness is fine, but the way it moves now feels and looks much worse. The movement portion starts much slower and results in this bizarre “floatiness” that didn’t exist before.

You’re also locked in to the animation and cannot weapon swap out of it like you previously could which is an annoying but arguably understandable change if intended.

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Posted by: roamzero.9486

roamzero.9486

They buffed Ghost thief… This makes me want WvW exclusive balance.

What’s funny is that despite that, for some reason they refuse to unsplit MH Pistol changes and keep them PVP only. As far as condi builds go oldschool P/D is alot funner to play than that ghost trap build..

(edited by roamzero.9486)

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Posted by: Hitman.5829

Hitman.5829

Don’t expect any valance patch on the thief, the developers love to play their thieves that is why they make the thieves strong.

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Posted by: TehHobNob.4687

TehHobNob.4687

Making vault affected by quickness is fine, but the way it moves now feels and looks much worse. The movement portion starts much slower and results in this bizarre “floatiness” that didn’t exist before.

You’re also locked in to the animation and cannot weapon swap out of it like you previously could which is an annoying but arguably understandable change if intended.

I agree. Trying to spread this as much as possible for awareness.

Pancakes
Thief

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Posted by: Wargameur.6950

Wargameur.6950

Considering only thief, I’m ok with the changes.

We more or less lost 2 dodges for 2 condi clear. That’s a balanced trade off. At the very least it will shave off my carefree use of dodges and makes me pay more attention.

The buff to ghost thief made me laugh ^^

Considering the big picture, I don’t know if we are in a good place or not….

main ~ Esper Jace (Thief )/ Ellundril Jiluan
(mesmer ) – EU [Teef]

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Posted by: coso.9173

coso.9173

why 2 dodges? didn’t the skill now recover 50 endu instead of 100? that’s just 1 dodge less

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Posted by: Simonoly.4352

Simonoly.4352

The condition removal buff to Signet of Agility is great and the nerf to the endurance gain was well needed. However, removing three conditions AND still getting 100 endurance in WvW is a bit ridiculous if I’m honest. Quite surprised they did that (maybe I shouldn’t be).

Then you’ve got weird things like the Body Shot buff for PvP only when main-hand pistol was already rather irrelevant in WvW with the craziness of D/P and now that condi Thief is basically just Ghost Thief now anyway. I also don’t think buffing traps was a particularly wise decision.

Infiltrator’s Strike change is great but the change to CnD still isn’t enough to warrant more use of off-hand dagger.

Gandara

(edited by Simonoly.4352)

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Posted by: Wargameur.6950

Wargameur.6950

why 2 dodges? didn’t the skill now recover 50 endu instead of 100? that’s just 1 dodge less

Chaneled vigor + signet of agility, it’s two dodges in total.

main ~ Esper Jace (Thief )/ Ellundril Jiluan
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Posted by: coso.9173

coso.9173

ah you’re rigjht I forgot about the heal.

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Posted by: Kocoff.7582

Kocoff.7582

It’s christmas for me guys.

Signet of Agility gets the things it needed. The reduction in endurance regen is reseaonable. It’s more punishable. It makes managing your dodging quite important now.

I LIKE.

Blackgate Server [RLR]
Thief – Raiden Hayabusa
Thief – Gouki Kurokawa

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Posted by: babazhook.6805

babazhook.6805

I think SOA a considerable boost with these changes. Really who needed those extra dodges the old offrred THAT badly? If you were counting on that endurance that much you had other issues.

The cleanse of three conditions which cleanses ALLIES as well is a significant boost.

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Posted by: babazhook.6805

babazhook.6805

The condition removal buff to Signet of Agility is great and the nerf to the endurance gain was well needed. However, removing three conditions AND still getting 100 endurance in WvW is a bit ridiculous if I’m honest. Quite surprised they did that (maybe I shouldn’t be).

Then you’ve got weird things like the Body Shot buff for PvP only when main-hand pistol was already rather irrelevant in WvW with the craziness of D/P and now that condi Thief is basically just Ghost Thief now anyway. I also don’t think buffing traps was a particularly wise decision.

Infiltrator’s Strike change is great but the change to CnD still isn’t enough to warrant more use of off-hand dagger.

Buffing traps is great for my p/d condition build. P/d condition a lot deadlier then ghost thief and more fun.

That this buffed ghost thief is unfortunate.

CND should have INI dropped by one and or a base of 1 second added to the stealth and I think it would be good to go.

(edited by babazhook.6805)

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Posted by: Zilvereen.2091

Zilvereen.2091

All I read was “we dont want you to play Acrobatics, stick to Deadly Arts, kkthnxbye”

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Posted by: Jugglemonkey.8741

Jugglemonkey.8741

They buffed Ghost thief… This makes me want WvW exclusive balance.

What’s funny is that despite that, for some reason they refuse to unsplit MH Pistol changes and keep them PVP only. As far as condi builds go oldschool P/D is alot funner to play than that ghost trap build..

I play P/D condi trapper for roaming a lot, so I’m happy with those changes even if I don’t think they were strictly necessary. And yes, it’s way more fun than ghost thief, and frankly it’s easier to bait people into traps when they have a target to chase.

As I say, I don’t think the needle trap and caltrops changes were needed. I have 100% bleed and poison duration, so one needle trap will now do 17k damage over 20s according to the tooltip, and dodging will put a 10s bleed on someone if they hit the caltrops. This is before might and vulnerability as well, which I have plenty of. I mean, it’s nice, I’ll take it, but they’ve made a trap spike really, really dangerous for reasons unknown.

It’s good and bad tbh, I liked that staff was halfway viable but the evade spam needed to stop as well, so something’s gotta take a hit. The channeled vigor nerf is hardly noticable imo, 15 endurance lost is minimal esp when traited, so they concentrated on acro. If anything I’m more annoyed that the changes won’t affect WvW and PvE, I dislike the skill split there.

Cecilia: Ghost thief won’t get nerfed unless they change the stealth stacking of D/P. So it’s pretty much here to stay unfortunately, since they can’t change that without breaking the meta build entirely.

Critical Kit, Thief.
Don’t follow me, unless you enjoy being chased by angry men with sticks.
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(edited by Jugglemonkey.8741)

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Posted by: saerni.2584

saerni.2584

Did the caltrops from Uncatchable get buffed? Or just the utility skill?

Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
Thief (Daredevil)
Commandant of Pistol-Dagger and Apex Predator

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Posted by: Jugglemonkey.8741

Jugglemonkey.8741

Did the caltrops from Uncatchable get buffed? Or just the utility skill?

Good catch there, it’s on caltrops not uncatchable. I’m tired lol xD

So yeah, it’s more reasonable than I first thought.

Critical Kit, Thief.
Don’t follow me, unless you enjoy being chased by angry men with sticks.
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Posted by: saerni.2584

saerni.2584

I’ll need to do some testing and obviously the balance changes are more about other classes but…here are my initial thoughts on the thief changes. As a thief running SA/Trickery/DD with P/D and venoms I was glad to see some minor buffs. I should note that in sPvP I run Deadshot amulet for the condi duration bonus.

The sPvP increase to immobilize base duration is probably the most important change. Immobilize on demand is powerful but at 1 second it wasn’t too great combined with the projectile speed. This might make it more useful without needing to spam it so much. Again and again I see the sPvP team making more interesting balance changes—like the Shadow Strike change previously. (Although I wish they had decided on making that change baseline across game modes in this patch).

Adding more vulnerability (slightly) on Cloak and Dagger is a smaller buff. I don’t think it will have any significant impact but I’ll reserve judgment for now. The skill isn’t fundamentally stronger although I use it often enough that it may prove a consistent 2% damage bonus.

I will also say that I approve of the slight reduction in thief endurance regeneration ability. If thief builds for it the same perma evade will probably still work though. Between acro and daredevil there is a lot of endurance regeneration available—and plenty of weapon skills that evade as well.

Lastly, I approve of the buff to core thief condi clear in exchange for the reduction in endurance regeneration. It will make more core builds viable and open up some builds in Daredevil that won’t need to use EA as much.

Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
Thief (Daredevil)
Commandant of Pistol-Dagger and Apex Predator

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Posted by: JonnyForgotten.4276

JonnyForgotten.4276

Just initial impression, the changes seem pretty okay. Really like the extra condi cleanse on Agility, and the nerfs to dodge aren’t too overbearing (I play d/d condi), but probably needed. Gives me some hope that someday I may not have to use EA. See how things work out.

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Posted by: Bigpapasmurf.5623

Bigpapasmurf.5623

Don’t expect any valance patch on the thief, the developers love to play their thieves that is why they make the thieves strong.

Same could be said about Anets favorite child: Warrior

- Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/MC_Celestia
- I am currently a main thief roamer for SF in WvW. LOVE ME!
- {SOAP} Solo/Havoc roamer, lover of good fights

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Posted by: Powah.1672

Powah.1672

Vault is such a dissapointment now. No action in it imo.

Liten men dödlig – Leathal when deadly

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Posted by: skystorm.9280

skystorm.9280

Could someone please tell me what Ghost Thief is?

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Posted by: Bigpapasmurf.5623

Bigpapasmurf.5623

Could someone please tell me what Ghost Thief is?

Its a thief build that utilizes 100% stealth up time. Mainly using the condi variant,using caltrops/traps and steal, all which inflicts no physical damage…thus never breaking stealth. You could technically kill someone/stomp and they will never see your character.

Its gimmiky and played by those either bored or just want to troll (I play this when im really bored in wvw) or by those that can’t thief (those that play it seriously). Its also typically a vanilla thief due to the traits it needs to sustain 100% stealth uptime.

- Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/MC_Celestia
- I am currently a main thief roamer for SF in WvW. LOVE ME!
- {SOAP} Solo/Havoc roamer, lover of good fights

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Posted by: skystorm.9280

skystorm.9280

Could someone please tell me what Ghost Thief is?

Its a thief build that utilizes 100% stealth up time. Mainly using the condi variant,using caltrops/traps and steal, all which inflicts no physical damage…thus never breaking stealth. You could technically kill someone/stomp and they will never see your character.

Its gimmiky and played by those either bored or just want to troll (I play this when im really bored in wvw) or by those that can’t thief (those that play it seriously). Its also typically a vanilla thief due to the traits it needs to sustain 100% stealth uptime.

ah yes. THAT build -.-

Thank you for the reply!

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Posted by: Straegen.2938

Straegen.2938

Its gimmiky and played by those either bored or just want to troll (I play this when im really bored in wvw) or by those that can’t thief (those that play it seriously). Its also typically a vanilla thief due to the traits it needs to sustain 100% stealth uptime.

There is a hybrid version that is a bit clunky but straight up deadly… it just got a very nice buff. After we tested it in duels we came away impressed. An average player has no prayer against it and a good player has virtually no chance to kill it even with a reveal.

Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”

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Posted by: Cygnus.6903

Cygnus.6903

The buff to ghost thief made me laugh ^^

That’s only if you ignore the community’s cry to delete this build that should never exist in the first place.

The buffs to Ghost Thief single handedly showed they still don’t give a kitten about WvW.

I only state my opinion unless stated otherwise.
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Posted by: Sora Shadow.9160

Sora Shadow.9160

The original ghost trap thief was a noob killer with less breakstun skill. However, it is really hard to encounter axe/sheild/greatsword stance berserker, hammer hgh scrapper or heal bunker druid etc. Most of them can reset or ignore the conditions same as a ghost thief. This buff can bring the vanilla thief to match the daredevil, which can be a real pain for average players.

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Posted by: Bigpapasmurf.5623

Bigpapasmurf.5623

Its gimmiky and played by those either bored or just want to troll (I play this when im really bored in wvw) or by those that can’t thief (those that play it seriously). Its also typically a vanilla thief due to the traits it needs to sustain 100% stealth uptime.

There is a hybrid version that is a bit clunky but straight up deadly… it just got a very nice buff. After we tested it in duels we came away impressed. An average player has no prayer against it and a good player has virtually no chance to kill it even with a reveal.

I haven’t seen any other variation aside form the trapper and the dps “almost 100% uptime”

- Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/MC_Celestia
- I am currently a main thief roamer for SF in WvW. LOVE ME!
- {SOAP} Solo/Havoc roamer, lover of good fights

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Posted by: Wargameur.6950

Wargameur.6950

The buff to ghost thief made me laugh ^^

That’s only if you ignore the community’s cry to delete this build that should never exist in the first place.

The buffs to Ghost Thief single handedly showed they still don’t give a kitten about WvW.

I know, that’s why it mades me laugh….Just like the +400 post long thread about pulmonary impact needs a nerf and they didn’t touch it at all. That’s ironic.

But come on, you don’t have an army of ghost thief running around and that is not something that will make you lose a match…At most it makes people being more aware of their surroundings and maybe change utilities while running to meet up with their blob….I cringe when I see how low awareness and reflexes non roamers WvW players have…

main ~ Esper Jace (Thief )/ Ellundril Jiluan
(mesmer ) – EU [Teef]

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

The buff to ghost thief made me laugh ^^

That’s only if you ignore the community’s cry to delete this build that should never exist in the first place.

The buffs to Ghost Thief single handedly showed they still don’t give a kitten about WvW.

I know, that’s why it mades me laugh….Just like the +400 post long thread about pulmonary impact needs a nerf and they didn’t touch it at all. That’s ironic.

But come on, you don’t have an army of ghost thief running around and that is not something that will make you lose a match…At most it makes people being more aware of their surroundings and maybe change utilities while running to meet up with their blob….I cringe when I see how low awareness and reflexes non roamers WvW players have…

Should i remind you that probably half of those 400 posts disagree with the nerf.

All is Vain~
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Posted by: rennlc.7346

rennlc.7346

Surprised they didn’t touch PI at all or hit CV a little harder. I really like the SoA change although I can understand why dash and acro thieves would generally prefer an additional dodge over the buffed condi cleanse.

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Posted by: babazhook.6805

babazhook.6805

Surprised they didn’t touch PI at all or hit CV a little harder. I really like the SoA change although I can understand why dash and acro thieves would generally prefer an additional dodge over the buffed condi cleanse.

Pretty hard to touch PI when they had a stated goal of bringing the Ele damage more in line with the thief while at the same time boosting the damage output of other classes.

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Posted by: rennlc.7346

rennlc.7346

Not really. They could have lowered its damage by 10% or made it have a 1s ICD. Just any change that would be inconsequential at higher levels of play but be helpful for newer players.

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Posted by: Wargameur.6950

Wargameur.6950

The buff to ghost thief made me laugh ^^

That’s only if you ignore the community’s cry to delete this build that should never exist in the first place.

The buffs to Ghost Thief single handedly showed they still don’t give a kitten about WvW.

I know, that’s why it mades me laugh….Just like the +400 post long thread about pulmonary impact needs a nerf and they didn’t touch it at all. That’s ironic.

But come on, you don’t have an army of ghost thief running around and that is not something that will make you lose a match…At most it makes people being more aware of their surroundings and maybe change utilities while running to meet up with their blob….I cringe when I see how low awareness and reflexes non roamers WvW players have…

Should i remind you that probably half of those 400 posts disagree with the nerf.

I know, I read almost everything in that thread. I didn’t voiced much of my opinion since you and the other regulars of the thief sub-forum did it very well.

main ~ Esper Jace (Thief )/ Ellundril Jiluan
(mesmer ) – EU [Teef]

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Posted by: Shinobi.3240

Shinobi.3240

Hello again!

Had time now to read through the posts.

What i could filter out is:

  • Ghost/Trapper thief should have been adressed.
  • The change to Signet of agility is good.
  • Pulmonary impact didn’t get any adjustments.
  • The buffs to traps and caltrops made our condition build viable in a raid setting.
  • Other professions got buffs. We will see how we are holding up.

Thank you all for your input on that topic.
On the matter Pulmonary impact i would have adressed it in an interesting way. My change to it would be to let it only proc on knockdowns and stuns. I would change the trait fist flurry to deliver a knockdown at the end of the chain. To activate PI you need to land the staff stealth attack, fist flurry, scorpion wire, basilik venom or the knockdown trap and interupt someone. This would make it a lot better. The damage could be raised aswell because it cant be spammed anymore.

What you think?

Best regards!

Shino

Shinobi Sicarius [ Thief / Lvl: 80 / PvP Rank: 250+]
[5/8 Champion Titles – Legendary Division] [19k+ AP]
[BEER – Dungeon Riders – Desolation]

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Posted by: Urejt.5648

Urejt.5648

I dont like acro staff build removal. Acro got hit way too hard (50% effectivness).

Yo Hooj Jest Pole

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Posted by: Azukas.1426

Azukas.1426

I dont like acro staff build removal. Acro got hit way too hard (50% effectivness).

It was a 1v1 viable build thus it got the axe….WTF did you expect to happen?

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Posted by: Turk.5460

Turk.5460

I encounter like, 1 ghost thief a week in WvW. I really don’t think this is as much of a problem as people make it out to be. I can see how it would be infuriating to be bested by this build, but the game isn’t balanced around 1v1, nor is it balanced around people not having situational awareness or just standing still…

In essence, its not worth the Dev’s focus and time when there are far more issues with builds/professions that actually have presence in WvW. No, I don’t play ghost thief, and I don’t think I’ve been killed by one ever since the first time I encountered one.

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