Guild Wars 2

Sylosi.6503:

Having recently finished levelling one to see for myself, yes they are OP, at least when it comes to WvW, for the following reasons:

1 – In open world type PvP a fairly fundamental concept in MMORPGs is risk vs reward, the balance of this is totally off on my thief compared to the other classes I have played to 80 (Necro, Engineer & Mes).

If I muck up or misjudge the situation or am simply outplayed, I can escape combat the vast majority of the time, there is far too little risk on the thief class.

2 – It is largely faceroll to play, stealth is the next easiest defence to use after passive defences.

Also far too much is done automatically for me on my thief, it is as if the game plays it for me – I have skills to teleport me / leap to the target, skills to teleport me away from the target, I have all-in-one faceroll skills like a spammable gap closer / finsher / combo finisher or an evade / AOE bleed / combo finsher, etc.

Skills are spammable, so if I miss my dagger 4 skill to cripple someone as I chase them down, I simply try again, unlike other classes where you don’t get a second chance.

3 – As a glass cannon my thief is less glass than other classes glass cannon (mesmer is second of the ones I’ve played properly), the cries of “oh but my thief is fragile” are pathetic, stealth + mobility gives the best survivability in WvW and scales against multiple opponents far better than any level of toughness / armour / HP. For those who think thief glass cannon builds are fragile, I suggest you try something like a static discharge engineer, you will find medium armour and 4277 more HP do not compare to stealth + better mobility when it comes to survivability.

Frankly I am borderline ashamed when I play my thief in WvW, at least when I played my burglar in LOTRO (it also was OP in PvP at times), but at least it was considered an advanced class and took a bit of thought / skill to play, the opposite to my thief in GW2.

Ye, totaly !
Because WvW is a completly different PvP environment whit completly different characters and rules.
OR that it is accesible to any noob regardless of their level and experience.
If anything that Thief has an unfair advantage over other classes in WvW is the culling .And thats the only thing that needs fixing.

People are still complaining about thieves? I just played WvW for 7 straight hours. 0 deaths due to thieves. I laugh whenever I see someone try to heartseeker me.

Here are a few hints for everyone. By the nature of the spec, most backstab types thieves do not carry any stun breakers. So stun them. They die fast.

For permastealth thieves, AOE. The damage output of that spec is laughable so you can take a few hits. Just don’t try to run away or they will kill you. Its better to use your dodges and aoe the area. Very soon you will see a thief in the downstate.

Ok, can we now move on to more important balance issues? The only spec that is currently OP in this game is d/d ele.

Hello! this will answer your question. Also to all thieves who say “its cause thieves destroy noobs” i gotta tip for you, if you cant 2 shot people with heart seeker, remember you press 5 so you can flee for combo points.

XZERO.3014:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh5zjK7ITpQ

Hello! this will answer your question. Also to all thieves who say “its cause thieves destroy noobs” i gotta tip for you, if you cant 2 shot people with heart seeker, remember you press 5 so you can flee for combo points.

You realize this was before the nerf right ? And its hard to press 5 when fighting player that is aware of what is 5 and what does it do. And how does this video shows thiefs OPness ? finishing outmaned ppl with <50 % hp while runing with a zerg? yea zergs OP, nurf zergs!

Karolis.4261:

XZERO.3014:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh5zjK7ITpQ

Hello! this will answer your question. Also to all thieves who say “its cause thieves destroy noobs” i gotta tip for you, if you cant 2 shot people with heart seeker, remember you press 5 so you can flee for combo points.

You realize this was before the nerf right ? And its hard to press 5 when fighting player that is aware of what is 5 and what does it do. And how does this video shows thiefs OPness ? finishing outmaned ppl with <50 % hp while runing with a zerg? yea zergs OP, nurf zergs!

Dat bold text!!

WvW objective points, cap, defend, supply, etc.

Anyone seen in the objectives for WvW 1v1, 1vX?

I havent at all and that is whats silly about all these overpowered threads lol. Even the OP talking about ashamed when he plays his thief in wvw. Why would you feel ashamed about playing a class lol. The people that think it overpowered don’t know what they are talking about. You can kill someone fast as in down them. That is what the thief is designed to do if you go into deadly arts and critical strikes. The traits speak for themselves. Its suppose to put out that dps quickly its in the class design philosophy that Anet put out.

The problem is people think if you see person you should kill person. Warriors are hard for me to catch on my thief sometimes and they put out as much burst as a thief. If they don’t have a gs then they lose that mobility but why wouldn’t you want mobility in WvW?

OGDeadHead.8326:

brunohstein.9038:

3. The main source of stealht of a thief will be Cloak and Dagger. For it to works, you have to be hit by it. It is avoidable. You also have 3 seconds to burst the thief the way you want after he came out of stealth.

Vs ranger, they will next to always have an easy to hit target for CnD – the pet.
Also, 3 seconds to burst… for rangers, burst comes in the form of the pet. It will take the pet time to understand to attack the target, time to get in position and more time to try and actually land an attack which is easily avoidable by all classes. By this time it will be too late and the thief is cloaked again.

Pets in general are very slow getting back on target, and not easily pulled away from CnD attacks either, so I’d say CnD is a bit unbalanced currently.

You say this like a person that plays a ranger. Pets can get on top of keeps and destroy siege why doesnt the pet have to go through the door like a person does and also take the stairs?

XZERO.3014:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh5zjK7ITpQ

Hello! this will answer your question. Also to all thieves who say “its cause thieves destroy noobs” i gotta tip for you, if you cant 2 shot people with heart seeker, remember you press 5 so you can flee for combo points.

Eithier or this is how thief gameplay is now. fairly easy with no amount of skill at all and ur skills hit like a freakin truck. you can say well ‘You cant beat a bunker!’ wanna bet… S/D Shortbow set up 10/30/30/0/0 period point blank and guess wat ??? spam 2 spam 2 auto attack some more spam 2 keep them noobie bunker build in place guys if they cant move they cant do crap !!!!! spam 2 some more guys and once he is 50% pop haste spam 2 and auto attack till he is dead ^^

Just saying thief is the only class that you can faceroll your face literally against the keyboard and win. you can win with no traits even selected just put a random build guys thats how we do it ^^

Oh yea forgot warrior you can mash ur face against your keyboard aswell but except hit like 5 trucks ^^ everyone loves 33k killshots for a 1.5k range yay me !!!!!!!!!!

Im sorry guys i know this seems like a troll but its not thief is just sit thier and auto attack people to death honestly no class should be able to just auto attack and kill some 1 in seconds thats pretty rediculous amount of damage with just a chain..

Karolis.4261:

XZERO.3014:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh5zjK7ITpQ

Hello! this will answer your question. Also to all thieves who say “its cause thieves destroy noobs” i gotta tip for you, if you cant 2 shot people with heart seeker, remember you press 5 so you can flee for combo points.

You realize this was before the nerf right ? And its hard to press 5 when fighting player that is aware of what is 5 and what does it do. And how does this video shows thiefs OPness ? finishing outmaned ppl with <50 % hp while runing with a zerg? yea zergs OP, nurf zergs!

To add. This video was when most Ele’s thought they were the most UP class in the game.

Sylosi.6503:

Having recently finished levelling one to see for myself, yes they are OP, at least when it comes to WvW, for the following reasons:

1 – In open world type PvP a fairly fundamental concept in MMORPGs is risk vs reward, the balance of this is totally off on my thief compared to the other classes I have played to 80 (Necro, Engineer & Mes).

If I muck up or misjudge the situation or am simply outplayed, I can escape combat the vast majority of the time, there is far too little risk on the thief class.

2 – It is largely faceroll to play, stealth is the next easiest defence to use after passive defences.

Also far too much is done automatically for me on my thief, it is as if the game plays it for me – I have skills to teleport me / leap to the target, skills to teleport me away from the target, I have all-in-one faceroll skills like a spammable gap closer / finsher / combo finisher or an evade / AOE bleed / combo finsher, etc.

Skills are spammable, so if I miss my dagger 4 skill to cripple someone as I chase them down, I simply try again, unlike other classes where you don’t get a second chance.

3 – As a glass cannon my thief is less glass than other classes glass cannon (mesmer is second of the ones I’ve played properly), the cries of “oh but my thief is fragile” are pathetic, stealth + mobility gives the best survivability in WvW and scales against multiple opponents far better than any level of toughness / armour / HP. For those who think thief glass cannon builds are fragile, I suggest you try something like a static discharge engineer, you will find 4277 more HP does not compare to stealth + better mobility when it comes to survivability.

Frankly I am borderline ashamed when I play my thief in WvW, at least when I played my burglar in LOTRO (it also was OP in PvP at times), but at least it was considered an advanced class and took a bit of thought / skill to play, the opposite to my thief in GW2.

This sums it up perfectly! I made a thief to learn how to counter them, and compared to the other classes i play (engineer and mesmer), this is absolute faceroll.
L2P has nothing to do with it most of the time because of the culling issue being so heavily abused by alot of thieves. Lets just hope they fix that soon.

They’re not overpowered, they’re just annoying to fight. As far as nerfs go, I don’t think it would be justified to nerf a class because of wvw culling.

mark.3160:

This sums it up perfectly! I made a thief to learn how to counter them, and compared to the other classes i play (engineer and mesmer), this is absolute faceroll.
L2P has nothing to do with it most of the time because of the culling issue being so heavily abused by alot of thieves. Lets just hope they fix that soon.

Its not face roll. I have a mesmer and it was my main till I started playing thief. Thief is definitely harder to play than a mesmer. I never had to worry about a 100bs warrior I didn’t even know what it was till I kept dying to it on my thief since I had to go into melee combat. On a mesmer you really only go in for ileap swap, blurred frenzy basically your burst portion of combo. Other than that everything else you do is ranged you don’t have to get in close. There is so much stuff you don’t have to worry about as a mesmer that you do as a thief lol

Blinds yea its stops your cast of a phantasm since they patch. If your phantasm is already out do you care if you get blinded really? GS auto attack only going to affect 1 hit of your auto attack. Blurred frenzy only going to affect 1 hit of your multi hit combo. I didnt care to much or need to really avoid blinds, or blocks or retaliation my clones ate all that for me.

I die all the time to 2+ size groups, all it takes is one person that has a clue what their doing and I go down.

I die in 1v1 against every class.

Earlier today I got royally stomped by a guardian in a 1v1. Five minutes later I then proceeded to fight and kill 2 guardians and a thief in a 1v3, all level 80 and in the same guild so one can hope in voice chat.

The first guardian played well and knew what he was doing, the other two had no bloody idea. The question for all that post about thieves is how do you be like the first guy and not the other three.

Not to say the class does not have issues, culling largest of all, but most people that post these kinds of stupid threads have no idea what they are talking about and thus are incapable of providing any kind of accurate statement as to the OPness or not of the class.

XZERO.3014:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh5zjK7ITpQ

Hello! this will answer your question. Also to all thieves who say “its cause thieves destroy noobs” i gotta tip for you, if you cant 2 shot people with heart seeker, remember you press 5 so you can flee for combo points.

Funny thing this is a d/d ele , I thought they were unbeatable XD

MHE Tiger.4875:

I’ll try and sum this up as easily as I can….

Thieves, when traited to deal insane damage, are not traited to take ANY damage. I, on my lvl 80 thief, have been easily destroyed in seconds by virtually every class. They are not overpowered.

GC Thief dead in seconds? What’s wrong with that?
Bunker build of another class dead in A second by a thief. (notice the S is gone)

it’s simply culling, if you feel good about beating someone who can’t target you due to render issues that’s fine I guess, it’s just when people mistake rendering bugs for skill it irks me. Even with the limited stealths my mesmer has it’s so broken. I can decoy and reappear and walk around 20 enemies and they don’t even attack me, not because I’m skilled but because I’m simply not targetable and not visible to them.

Now add in a player who is actually good at gaming and give them the ability to rarely be targeted or visible and you get OP threads.

I’m so glad you asked this question OP!

It’s certainly never been asked before and deserves a thread of its own!!

I haven’t really experienced them in WvW or SPvP as I do neither, but in PvE I also haven’t seen where their damage is amazing. Only getting up to 3K on my Pistol Whips, Heartseekers (when the foe is low on health) and Backstabs.

Between Shatter AoE, Phantasm bloodhounds, counter stealths, and stuns/immobilizations I find Mesmers have the the tools to deal with thieves effectively.

Basically, I don’t see thieves as OP.

Hello guys!

D/D ele here. I just want to point something which escapes attention.

I read above that D/D ele is the most powerful class in this game. Lets assume that this is true /i.e many realiable ppl has played ALL classes and builds and reached the same opinion at the end /. Good.

I play D/D ele and I have been killed by thieves. Shame on me – I know . The question is why. The answer – because using the full potential of a d/d ele is incredibly difficult. It takes months to learn the craft, save you are an ele Messi. At least 90% of the players (me included) will never reach the full potential of the build. By the way, a gaming mouse is absolutely essential for D/D ele.

If you dont trust me – pls feel free to watch some of the daphoenix vidz posted in ele forum. Honestly, I have yet to meet a player who plays the ele as it should

That said, what about thieves? Are they difficult to play? We know the answer. Thief is extremely dangerous and easy to play. That’s why thieves are considered OP.

Apart from that to counter a thief you need to be aware of him. In WvW this is not exactly the case. A patient thief can ambush ppl with ease and most of the time with deadly success. And I don’t even speak for those situation when we are in fight and a stealth thief just appears from nowhere taking advantage of our already lowered HP.

Cheers!

D/D Ele is not an incredibly difficult spec to play, it requires decent key mapping. Any player who’s worth his salt in WvW will be able to master a D/D Ele in a day or two after having it PLed to 80. There are plenty of difficult to play professions/builds out there … D/D Ele isn’t one of them. It’s going to get nerfed again, just like Thieves.

I have both of the offending toons, so this is coming from experience.

Ah, you are that ele Messi Seriously, you either do not know what are you talking about or you are, say, joking.

Judging from the obvious: my roomate and best friend is a thief (my main is mesmer, but tried other classes at 80 as well), we only play together.
Simple fact: he delivers 3 attack in 3 seconds (skill1, skill1, skill1), and I see numbers like 3000, 3000, 4000 in a quick row.
Just for the record: my 3 attacks take 5 seconds to be completed and you can see numbers like 800, 1000, 1300 (even 400).
And he has lower lvl gear than mine (which is: full exotic, power, prec, toughness).
He does no activate the +15% (or something) damage for 5 attacks signet or anyhings, only pressing buttons.
Therefore, he kills a mob faster. With his +25%passive movement speed, he proceeds to the next one, whereas I am still hitting my lovely little 1000s.
If in trouble, he pops 2 thief mateys, giving him combo starters, decent bonus damage whatnot. His healing skill makes him invisible, cures conditions and applies regeneration. If all seems lost, he teleports aways and runs til the sun rises with his +25% movement passive. His traitpoints look like as if made by a 5 year old, since he can hardly understand english.

Numbers. All I see is numbers and laziness maybe? It takes absolutely no effort for him to overcome my damage output, escape skills or anything, whereas I struggle and carefully spend my trait points to be able to come near to my lovely roomate who started playing computer games in august…

Before I get the complaints that I am only stressed that a newbie overcomes me…no. This is not the case, I am happy for my friends, I’m glad to see that he is successull and enjoys playing. I am only sad that this level of OP-ness still goes unseen by many and I’ve been checking the forums of every profession and thieves usually throw around phrases like “This is the most difficult, less fun class to play with”…" we need more toughness and hp, because it is already unfair to thieves"… and such.

Please relax and contemplate on the fact that your profession is not the most difficult, and can easily be regarded as the most OP.

This is my personal opinion, by looking at 2 monitors, videos, forum topics and compairing them.

In high level play, defeating another skilled player is more about predicting and countering them, with good management of cool downs/intiative and endurance and knowing when to apply pressure and when to play more defensively. At this level, everyone has a good grasp of how their profession works and should be played.

I think to say that elementalist is the most powerful profession is a little premature. The meta is always changing and it is only relatively recently the current cookie cutter elementalist builds have become so popular. With more experience playing against the build, people become more accustomed to them and how to counter them. What is considered OP one day maybe be balanced or even underpowered the next.

zallesz.1650:

Judging from the obvious: my roomate and best friend is a thief (my main is mesmer, but tried other classes at 80 as well), we only play together.
Simple fact: he delivers 3 attack in 3 seconds (skill1, skill1, skill1), and I see numbers like 3000, 3000, 4000 in a quick row.
Just for the record: my 3 attacks take 5 seconds to be completed and you can see numbers like 800, 1000, 1300 (even 400).
And he has lower lvl gear than mine (which is: full exotic, power, prec, toughness).
He does no activate the +15% (or something) damage for 5 attacks signet or anyhings, only pressing buttons.
Therefore, he kills a mob faster. With his +25%passive movement speed, he proceeds to the next one, whereas I am still hitting my lovely little 1000s.
If in trouble, he pops 2 thief mateys, giving him combo starters, decent bonus damage whatnot. His healing skill makes him invisible, cures conditions and applies regeneration. If all seems lost, he teleports aways and runs til the sun rises with his +25% movement passive. His traitpoints look like as if made by a 5 year old, since he can hardly understand english.

Numbers. All I see is numbers and laziness maybe? It takes absolutely no effort for him to overcome my damage output, escape skills or anything, whereas I struggle and carefully spend my trait points to be able to come near to my lovely roomate who started playing computer games in august…

Before I get the complaints that I am only stressed that a newbie overcomes me…no. This is not the case, I am happy for my friends, I’m glad to see that he is successull and enjoys playing. I am only sad that this level of OP-ness still goes unseen by many and I’ve been checking the forums of every profession and thieves usually throw around phrases like “This is the most difficult, less fun class to play with”…" we need more toughness and hp, because it is already unfair to thieves"… and such.

Please relax and contemplate on the fact that your profession is not the most difficult, and can easily be regarded as the most OP.

This is my personal opinion, by looking at 2 monitors, videos, forum topics and compairing them.

Eh? What class are you.

Yassa.2193:

Ah, you are that ele Messi Seriously, you either do not know what are you talking about or you are, say, joking.

I’m sorry if you don’t agree, but D/D Ele isn’t hard to play. There’s perhaps only two people I run with that might have a week-long learning curve the rest have or would pick it up in a few days, most have in less. There’s nothing overly complex about the D/D build, just hotkey management and combo manipulation. The build allows for mistakes with its mobility and ease of escape. Miss a combo completely … that’s alright because you still have enough mobility to escape, collect yourself, reset cooldowns, and then fire back in. You want a tough class to master, pick any frontline fighter without the mobility/escape of a thief or elementalist. I appreciate that some people may no have the peripherals that I do , nor the innate twitch/situational awareness ( not that I am a Korean (tongue in cheek)) ; but for those of us that do … D/D Ele is easy.

Smitten.3076:

D/D Ele is not an incredibly difficult spec to play, it requires decent key mapping. Any player who’s worth his salt in WvW will be able to master a D/D Ele in a day or two after having it PLed to 80. There are plenty of difficult to play professions/builds out there … D/D Ele isn’t one of them. It’s going to get nerfed again, just like Thieves.

I have both of the offending toons, so this is coming from experience.

Nerf? lol
What they could possibly nerf on d/d that would make good eles less efficient?
There is nothing that will stop good eles from wrecking you, any weapon set will do, in a 8vs8 format I may opt to go d/d for RTL entirely but in a 5vs5 I can use any set and perform equally good even if under different roles.
If it is not d/d, it can be : staff, s/d, s/f, d/f…I’d still win

Bad players always hope for nerfs to bring the battle in their favour..but that never happen because simply you can’t nerf skills obtained through training

Arheundel.6451:

Smitten.3076:

D/D Ele is not an incredibly difficult spec to play, it requires decent key mapping. Any player who’s worth his salt in WvW will be able to master a D/D Ele in a day or two after having it PLed to 80. There are plenty of difficult to play professions/builds out there … D/D Ele isn’t one of them. It’s going to get nerfed again, just like Thieves.

I have both of the offending toons, so this is coming from experience.

Nerf? lol
What they could possibly nerf on d/d that would make good eles less efficient?
There is nothing that will stop good eles from wrecking you, any weapon set will do, in a 8vs8 format I may opt to go d/d for RTL entirely but in a 5vs5 I can use any set and perform equally good even if under different roles.
If it is not d/d, it can be : staff, s/d, s/f, d/f…I’d still win

Bad players always hope for nerfs to bring the battle in their favour..but that never happen because simply you can’t nerf skills obtained through training

I play ( played ) a D/D Ele , they have to much mobility/escape. It’s going to get nerfed, by all means continue assuming though .. its amusing.

MHE Tiger.4875:

I’ll try and sum this up as easily as I can….

Thieves, when traited to deal insane damage, are not traited to take ANY damage. I, on my lvl 80 thief, have been easily destroyed in seconds by virtually every class. They are not overpowered. Once you learn to catch one, it’s game over for that thief. Guardian greatsword skill 2 will take a GC thief down pretty nicely and many of the other classes’ skills will as well. Just saying, the thieves that you believe are so overpowered are not. The player behind the keyboard and mouse just knows how to play one. They get in, slash some stuff out, and if they are good, get their rear end out of there and stealth. Though like I said, if you catch one, it’s really no longer a fight.

Sylosi.6503 sums this one up pretty much perfectly.

In response to Tiger.4875, every class can go with a glass cannon build and have the same survivability issue you define. However, the extreme difference is that thieves can’t be hit when they chain-stealth. Hence, they practically have the survivability of a tanked guardian, the escapability of an elementalist, and the spike damage of a burst warrior.

I’ve I mentioned before, this gets somewhat balanced out in spvp because thieves are forced to hold points to win and therefore have to stand in a defined place over a period of time allowing aoe to have some effect.

Helios.3598:

MHE Tiger.4875:

I’ll try and sum this up as easily as I can….

Thieves, when traited to deal insane damage, are not traited to take ANY damage. I, on my lvl 80 thief, have been easily destroyed in seconds by virtually every class. They are not overpowered. Once you learn to catch one, it’s game over for that thief. Guardian greatsword skill 2 will take a GC thief down pretty nicely and many of the other classes’ skills will as well. Just saying, the thieves that you believe are so overpowered are not. The player behind the keyboard and mouse just knows how to play one. They get in, slash some stuff out, and if they are good, get their rear end out of there and stealth. Though like I said, if you catch one, it’s really no longer a fight.

Sylosi.6503 sums this one up pretty much perfectly.

In response to Tiger.4875, every class can go with a glass cannon build and have the same survivability issue you define. However, the extreme difference is that thieves can’t be hit when they chain-stealth. Hence, they practically have the survivability of a tanked guardian, the escapability of an elementalist, and the spike damage of a burst warrior.

I’ve I mentioned before, this gets somewhat balanced out in spvp because thieves are forced to hold points to win and therefore have to stand in a defined place over a period of time allowing aoe to have some effect.

Thieves can’t be hit when they are stealth, which buff or trait is that?

Smitten.3076:

Arheundel.6451:

Smitten.3076:

D/D Ele is not an incredibly difficult spec to play, it requires decent key mapping. Any player who’s worth his salt in WvW will be able to master a D/D Ele in a day or two after having it PLed to 80. There are plenty of difficult to play professions/builds out there … D/D Ele isn’t one of them. It’s going to get nerfed again, just like Thieves.

I have both of the offending toons, so this is coming from experience.

Nerf? lol
What they could possibly nerf on d/d that would make good eles less efficient?
There is nothing that will stop good eles from wrecking you, any weapon set will do, in a 8vs8 format I may opt to go d/d for RTL entirely but in a 5vs5 I can use any set and perform equally good even if under different roles.
If it is not d/d, it can be : staff, s/d, s/f, d/f…I’d still win

Bad players always hope for nerfs to bring the battle in their favour..but that never happen because simply you can’t nerf skills obtained through training

I play ( played ) a D/D Ele , they have to much mobility/escape. It’s going to get nerfed, by all means continue assuming though .. its amusing.

Lol ..you really don’t get it do you?
The nerfs that you and other are waiting for..will never come , because devs got no possible way to nerf personal skills, slighty changes on d/d will only drive away the current FOTM crowd ( who still are nothing compared to a well played ele, only baddies lose to FOTM eles), absolutely nothing will change for people who have been playing this profession for months, you can keep crying “wolf” from now till the end of times, the fact is : well played ele> all the other professions, change the set and the situation remain the same…good ele > all the rest

Arheundel.6451:

Smitten.3076:

Arheundel.6451:

Smitten.3076:

D/D Ele is not an incredibly difficult spec to play, it requires decent key mapping. Any player who’s worth his salt in WvW will be able to master a D/D Ele in a day or two after having it PLed to 80. There are plenty of difficult to play professions/builds out there … D/D Ele isn’t one of them. It’s going to get nerfed again, just like Thieves.

I have both of the offending toons, so this is coming from experience.

Nerf? lol
What they could possibly nerf on d/d that would make good eles less efficient?
There is nothing that will stop good eles from wrecking you, any weapon set will do, in a 8vs8 format I may opt to go d/d for RTL entirely but in a 5vs5 I can use any set and perform equally good even if under different roles.
If it is not d/d, it can be : staff, s/d, s/f, d/f…I’d still win

Bad players always hope for nerfs to bring the battle in their favour..but that never happen because simply you can’t nerf skills obtained through training

I play ( played ) a D/D Ele , they have to much mobility/escape. It’s going to get nerfed, by all means continue assuming though .. its amusing.

Lol ..you really don’t get it do you?
The nerfs that you and other are waiting for..will never come , because devs got no possible way to nerf personal skills, slighty changes on d/d will only drive away the current FOTM crowd ( who still are nothing compared to a well played ele, only baddies lose to FOTM eles), absolutely nothing will change for people who have been playing this profession for months, you can keep crying “wolf” from now till the end of times, the fact is : well played ele> all the other professions, change the set and the situation remain the same…good ele > all the rest

What are you going on about again? I lost your point in this frenzied response of nonsense.

Huh? There’s no way to put what I’ve said in a more simplistic way, any attempt in doing so would be a completed waste of time..besides it’s more enjoyable to sit back and enjoy these kind of threads, in the end eles once again are the bane of thief/sin archetype, why even try when you see an ele and you’re on your own?…just stealth and run ^^

rinzler.4908:

Yes. Thieves are OP.

Those facerolling thieves who want things to remain the same shout. NO THEY BALANCED

Everyone else getting destroyed say otherwise.

Care to expand? A baseless argument holds no water.

Honestly, thieves are not OP, Yes they are definitely good at 1v1 situation but might find it difficult fighting a group of enemies alone especially skilled enemies. Most players complain that thieves are exceptionally powerful but you must also take into consideration your own build. Being a glass cannon and wanting to fight thieves is a no-no unless you know your limitations and able to overcome the loopholes. I played WvW almost all the time and find it difficult to fight against enemies that have high toughness and vitality. Due to thieves low hp pool and with 15 k health build, even though they are tanky, their damage still hurts.

I enjoy 1 on 1s vs thieves. As a necro I find them challenging but definitely beatable. That said, Im sure I’d lose to a very good thief.

Dual.8953:

Karolis.4261:

XZERO.3014:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh5zjK7ITpQ

Hello! this will answer your question. Also to all thieves who say “its cause thieves destroy noobs” i gotta tip for you, if you cant 2 shot people with heart seeker, remember you press 5 so you can flee for combo points.

You realize this was before the nerf right ? And its hard to press 5 when fighting player that is aware of what is 5 and what does it do. And how does this video shows thiefs OPness ? finishing outmaned ppl with <50 % hp while runing with a zerg? yea zergs OP, nurf zergs!

To add. This video was when most Ele’s thought they were the most UP class in the game.

The video is -that- old? Wow, we should all just point and laugh that it’s being presented as ‘evidence’ in the first place.

They’re just overpowered, no way to deny that. Just stealthing all the time not being able to get hit (o wow by AoE attacks but you can’t even see if you’ve hit them), and then just finishing any class with a few hits by pressing the same button over and over. No need for skills. Oh and just stealth if you want to run from fights and you can’t even be killed too.

bartrentenaar.8674:

They’re just overpowered, no way to deny that. Just stealthing all the time not being able to get hit (o wow by AoE attacks but you can’t even see if you’ve hit them), and then just finishing any class with a few hits by pressing the same button over and over. No need for skills. Oh and just stealth if you want to run from fights and you can’t even be killed too.

Nice arguement….

Thieves are really easy to counter. Dodge their steal, and their super backstab combo is useless. If they land the stun, just break it and dodge roll out. Stealth? Just swing your weapon around (unless your ranged, try to hit if you get lucky, i have before [: ). Judge when they will go invisible, and immobilize them, then punish them. Also you seem to be generalizing thieves to one thing: Super Backstab with HS spam afterwards. Not all thieves do that. I laugh at thieves who do that while 1v1ing me. They are like Bull’s Rush 100b warriors, I dodge their combo, then obliterate them because they have nothing left. It really isn’t hard to beat a thief. Maybe you should try playing one, learn how they are, then counter them.

Binary Rain.4869:

Thieves are really easy to counter. Dodge their steal, and bla bla

please help us do that. when would a Thief use the steal? when he is coming straight for you from a forward easy to see place, and then he stops to calculate the range, will he then press F1 ? Cause golly, I will try to ‘dodge’ the steal and then proceed to obliterate him.

Having a thief myself I will admit to them being overpowered. I’ll get 16-17k Mug+Backstab combos, and I must admit, I feel cheap as hell doing it. I believe an increase to Cloak and Dagger cooldown and the complete removal of Mug will lead us in the right direction to fixing this broken class. Lets not forget Culling issues, which ends up giving thieves an extra 1-3 seconds of “broken stealth”.

rogerwilko.6895:

Binary Rain.4869:

Thieves are really easy to counter. Dodge their steal, and bla bla

please help us do that. when would a Thief use the steal? when he is coming straight for you from a forward easy to see place, and then he stops to calculate the range, will he then press F1 ? Cause golly, I will try to ‘dodge’ the steal and then proceed to obliterate him.

It is a matter of being able to judge the distance, and when they will strike. They always strike at the same range, which is why I can dodge them. They tend to be typical and strike in no surprise on 1v1.

I actually do not do the super backstab combo, but look to see if they have the venom up, if they have the venom up they are going for the super backstab.

What i have noticed for most thieves: They prepare out of range, when they begin running up, at that moment, they might not strike right away, they tend to come a bit closer in range, just to make sure their steal hits. If you learn that distance, dodge a bit before hand (forward i suggest, to try and get right next to them), if he doesn’t steal, dodge again towards him, and try to possibly control him if he didn’t attack.

As for me, the only backstab i really do is when I am skirmishing 1v1, i never go for the super backstab combo, to glassy for my style. What I do though: Sword number 2, quickly F1 hitting you with the sword attack and the f1 ability, stunning you with the venom, then CnD, switch weapons, and they do not see the back stab coming.

Daecollo.9578:

Thieves can’t be hit when they are stealth, which buff or trait is that?

Four out of five attack spells require you to target the opponent to actually attack him. You might as well throw AOE spells in there too since you need to see your target to know where to put the aoe. Tell me, which trait or buff can I take to target a stealthed thief?

Helios.3598:

Daecollo.9578:

Thieves can’t be hit when they are stealth, which buff or trait is that?

Four out of five attack spells require you to target the opponent to actually attack him. You might as well throw AOE spells in there too since you need to see your target to know where to put the aoe. Tell me, which trait or buff can I take to target a stealthed thief?

You’re looking for a mechanical solution to a behavioral problem. The fact is that there are only a few skills in the entire game that can’t be manually aimed. Stop relying on GW2’s version of aim-assist and stealth stops being such a crushing mechanic. Most people don’t even attempt to learn how to manually aim their attacks, and stealth punishes that more than anything.

Helios.3598:

Daecollo.9578:

Thieves can’t be hit when they are stealth, which buff or trait is that?

Four out of five attack spells require you to target the opponent to actually attack him. You might as well throw AOE spells in there too since you need to see your target to know where to put the aoe. Tell me, which trait or buff can I take to target a stealthed thief?

No they don’t, I don’t need a target to do anything.

Tulisin.6945:

Helios.3598:

Daecollo.9578:

Thieves can’t be hit when they are stealth, which buff or trait is that?

Four out of five attack spells require you to target the opponent to actually attack him. You might as well throw AOE spells in there too since you need to see your target to know where to put the aoe. Tell me, which trait or buff can I take to target a stealthed thief?

You’re looking for a mechanical solution to a behavioral problem. The fact is that there are only a few skills in the entire game that can’t be manually aimed. Stop relying on GW2’s version of aim-assist and stealth stops being such a crushing mechanic. Most people don’t even attempt to learn how to manually aim their attacks, and stealth punishes that more than anything.

I am really trying to understand this. I cannot target what I cannot see, so I would appreciate your tips as to how to overcome that limitation. I use plenty of aoe and constantly move too, trying to follow puffs of smoke, but the aoes rarely hit any enemy. What do you suggest.

Run with your combat log open. It shows damage and hits even on invisible targets.

Samhayn.2385:

Run with your combat log open. It shows damage and hits even on invisible targets.

This is important. The best way to learn how to read stealth is to play a thief yourself for a bit. Once you understand the mindset of the thief it becomes much easier to anticipate what they’re going to do with their stealth. While a good thief can be deceptive with their stealth to throw you off, most thieves haven’t really learned any skill in the deception meta simply because most of their opponents don’t force them to.

You can develop a rough flowchart in your head for what the thief’s most likely course of action is: If build A, he’ll do this, if build B he’ll do this, is he using stealth offensive or defensively, is he wearing me down or going for a quick kill, etc.

Then, armed with the knowledge of where they’ll likely be, you efficiently use your resources to attack those areas and look for indicators of a hit, be they combat log, chain attacks triggering, procs going off, etc. What this does not mean is that you should throw AE all over the ground and pray. In actuality, your most effective attack against a stealthed target is a wide-range auto attack, like that of a sword. You can use ranged attacks to hit stealthed targets, but it takes a lot more precision aiming.

It really doesn’t take much to utterly destroy the “advantage” of the stealth for a thief. A couple strong hits against a glass thief may make them reconsider the fight, and for a more durable thief that relies on stealth you deny them the slowly building advantage of getting little stealthed rest breaks by ensuring they don’t come out ahead after stealth. Thieves need their opponents to do nothing productive for 2-4 seconds at a time, because the thief isn’t really doing that much when they’re in stealth themselves (repositioning, regenerating, but not actively pressuring their opponent). The second that downtime stops being “free”, stealth is a hefty trade-off that means not being able to do any damage in return for some small benefits that can be wiped out in a few hits. A good thief will use their mobility to stay alive and continue the fight, but many bad thieves that rely entirely on stealth become extremely ineffective when someone puts up a good counter fight to it.

tl;dr – Stealth is effective because most people don’t even try to counter it, but by the same token most stealthers don’t know what to do when they are countered, because nobody ever forces them to learn.

Samhayn.2385:

Run with your combat log open. It shows damage and hits even on invisible targets.

Oh, I do. My aoe still rarely generates damage. Thanks for the feedback. Could you also share what other classes require this level of anticipation of what the enemy might do next, or go next?

Columba.9730:

Samhayn.2385:

Run with your combat log open. It shows damage and hits even on invisible targets.

Oh, I do. My aoe still rarely generates damage. Thanks for the feedback. Could you also share what other classes require this level of anticipation of what the enemy might do next, or go next?

None, in the sense of constant stealth. But in the sense of relying on deception and distractions to stay alive, Mesmers fit that bill. They have the ability to transfer between their clones, stealth abilities, and teleports. All of these are similar to what the thief gets, but less focused on the stealth aspect.

There was a post by Jonathan Sharp regarding their design philosophies. The thief section states:

“Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game. They are able to help allies through traps, venoms and the mobility to flank most encounters.”

What most people are complaining about, is how the class is meant to be played. There are counters available to you, you just have to look for them. Evade CnDs and you go a long way to countering any dagger offhand stealth thief (which is the most bemoaned thief). Learning to recognize the steal/CnD combo and how to dodge the CnD (or at the very least the following backstab) will also help mitigate most of the upfront burst, and deter a lot of thieves.

@tulisin: no one should be forced to fight an enemy who can stealth 95% of the time.

Yet several thieves still think soloing 10 people in wvw is solely due to their skill and not an over powered and exploited class.