Thief's Shadow Trap vs Mesmer Portal

Thief's Shadow Trap vs Mesmer Portal

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Posted by: DiRaven.3958

DiRaven.3958

\o/

Mesmer Portal requires person to visit both locations in order to be able to teleport. So does Thief’s Shadow Trap.

So why does Portal not have pathfinding check while Shadow Trap does?

If they are mechanically exactly the same (except Thief can only TP himself and not 20 people), why are they different in terms of usage limitations? Is there any reasoning behind this?

I wrote to support with this same question and got an advice to post here on forums for the devs to see. Well, here I am asking the same question…

Thanks.

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Posted by: BobbyT.7192

BobbyT.7192

Shadow trap used to have no limitations on it. It wasn’t used too much until it was buffed with the might gain, and the flip over skill that would allow you to pick when you teleport.
Plenty of thieves started to use it in spvp after that not only for its superior disengage ability over other options, but the fact that the thief could leave it at home or far node and return to it at any point when they were contested.
Eventually it got nerf to where it is today because people cried about it

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Posted by: Wargameur.6950

Wargameur.6950

Because they are mechanically not the same entity.

portals are objects made to be interactive. They are the parents of the tech behind continuum split and mirage’s mirrors. All literal teleport ( teleport gun ) work the same way.

Traps are just a different tech entirely. So they have to rely on path finding.

This is just supposition but it might not be worth their time to convert traps into the same time of object as portals ( + changes to traits and runes that react to traps only ) or even to redo shadow trap entirely.

btw does someone knows if flesh worm’s teleport uses path finding or literal teleport ?

Edit : BobbyT’s post might be the right answer, I was not there at that time. Still changing a skill to a buggier version because it is too strong is a weird decision :/

main ~ Esper Jace (Thief )/ Ellundril Jiluan
(mesmer ) – EU [Teef]

(edited by Wargameur.6950)

Thief's Shadow Trap vs Mesmer Portal

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Posted by: DiRaven.3958

DiRaven.3958

> This is just supposition but it might not be worth their time to convert traps into the same time of object as portals ( + changes to traits and runes that react to traps only ) or even to redo shadow trap entirely.

They mentioned every skill has a “make pathfinding check” switch. So it’s not much of a problem. I’m just curious what is the reasoning behind such decision other then it being a nice disengage in sPVP.

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Posted by: nopoet.2960

nopoet.2960

Isn’t the issue that you are not teleporting to the fixed location of the trap but instead to the thing that triggered the trap? It’s not really the same as mesmer portals. You are actually making a really long shadow step to a moving target. They could probably cut the distance to steal range to make it work reliably or change it so that you port back to the location and not the target.

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Posted by: BobbyT.7192

BobbyT.7192

Isn’t the issue that you are not teleporting to the fixed location of the trap but instead to the thing that triggered the trap? It’s not really the same as mesmer portals. You are actually making a really long shadow step to a moving target. They could probably cut the distance to steal range to make it work reliably or change it so that you port back to the location and not the target.

when you plant the trap, and no one triggers it, you get the option to destroy it, and your able to teleport back.
When someone triggers it, you get another skill that allows you to teleport to the target in stealth, and gain might and fury

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Posted by: KrHome.1920

KrHome.1920

They mentioned every skill has a “make pathfinding check” switch. So it’s not much of a problem. I’m just curious what is the reasoning behind such decision other then it being a nice disengage in sPVP.

Imgaine Shadow Trap works like the Mesmer Portal…

WvW scenario 1: Thief lays Shadowtrap at the entrance of a tower. Enemy player walks over it into the tower. Thief ports into the tower next to the enemy player (is even stealthed while doing so). Caps the tower.

WvW scenario 2: Thief lays Trap before he disengages the tower and ports back into it later to recap.

Now think about 20 thieves doing so… One single enemy player running into a tower/keep pulls 20 thieves into it or the 20 thieves could lay their traps, then disengage and reengage later to recap.

Pretty cool huh? Not really! Everyone would play teef in WvW and PPT 24/7.

That’s why Shadow Trap uses pathfinding and stops at walls and other obstacles you can’t walk over.

The skills functionality is too flexible to work like the Mesmer Portal. Even with a 1 minute reset timer (like Mesmer Portal) on it, it would be too strong in most secenarios but useless in others.

(edited by KrHome.1920)

Thief's Shadow Trap vs Mesmer Portal

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Posted by: DiRaven.3958

DiRaven.3958

> WvW scenario 2: Thief lays Trap before he disengages the tower and ports back into it later to recap.

What stops mesmer to do the same, but with 20 people, not just himself?

As far as I remember they both share the same time limit of 120 seconds to be used before disappearing.

The only difference I can think of is mesmer portal is visible, so can be found while thief’s trap is not. And that is counterweigted with the fact mesmer portal can be used by 20 people while thief can only tp himself.

Thief's Shadow Trap vs Mesmer Portal

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Posted by: DiRaven.3958

DiRaven.3958

> WvW scenario 1: Thief lays Shadowtrap at the entrance of a tower. Enemy player walks over it into the tower. Thief ports into the tower next to the enemy player (is even stealthed while doing so). Caps the tower.

And that yes, did not think much about this one. Might be a problem. But again, one can enable pathfinding check for “tp to person” and disable for “tp to trap and destroy it” (they are different skills, after all).

(edited by DiRaven.3958)

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Posted by: Esplen.3940

Esplen.3940

btw does someone knows if flesh worm’s teleport uses path finding or literal teleport ?

Pathfinding. It does the check when you summon the wurm and when you pop it (so it can fail similar to Shadow Trap).

> WvW scenario 2: Thief lays Trap before he disengages the tower and ports back into it later to recap.

What stops mesmer to do the same, but with 20 people, not just himself?

As far as I remember they both share the same time limit of 120 seconds to be used before disappearing.

The only difference I can think of is mesmer portal is visible, so can be found while thief’s trap is not. And that is counterweigted with the fact mesmer portal can be used by 20 people while thief can only tp himself.

Mesmer Portal lasts 60 seconds, is extremely visible, and has a max range of 10,000. This can be extended to 62 seconds with a Grandmaster trait (oh boy). The skill used to have a cooldown of 60s (then 90s), but now sits at 72s (90s with “defaulted” 20% reduction).

Shadow Trap lasts 5 minutes (300 seconds) and has a max range of 10,000. The skill used to last 2 minutes (and an hour before that), and have no range limit. Additionally, the skill used to have a 30s cd, but is now 45s (36s traited).

Also, invisibility access on a Mesmer has been severely nerfed (Torch CDR standardized) in recent patches making it impossible to stay permanently stealthed without outside intereference.

Thief's Shadow Trap vs Mesmer Portal

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Posted by: DiRaven.3958

DiRaven.3958

Portal: visible, lives 60 seconds, 90 sec cd, 20 people
Trap: invisible, lives 300 seconds, 45 sec cd, 1 person

Seems pretty fair to me even if they were both without pathfinding checks.