Guild Wars 2

My obligatory beating the dead horse post…

Zero Day.2594:

My obligatory beating the dead horse post…

be nice to the horse Zero Day: One day you might need it

DarkSyze.8627:

Zero Day.2594:

My obligatory beating the dead horse post…

be nice to the horse Zero Day: One day you might need it

Well… it’s a dead one, and a beaten one at that too.
Won’t make any good leather, and I don’t eat meat so can’t have it as a meal either.
Not sure what it’s uses are beyond that and what people have been doing to it for the past 2 years.

Well, the OP title has brought in people that have obviously not been reading the thread :-/

If anyone wants to just talk about class design in general, theorycrafting, etc. then please make a thread with a better name and/or PM me. I enjoy good discussions.

Also, if anyone here is still a solid Sword + Dagger Thief, I’d love to learn from someone. Never main’d Thief (just dabbled for years now), but I’ve always had a lot of respect for the high evasion Thieves with their said evasion, versatility, etc.. … and that high skill ceiling.

Yeah this mechanic is just outright stupid in WvW, they will attack and stealth all day, i play ranger, i don’t have the AoE you people are talking about. So when they attack and i push them back, why can they just restealth? I just wasted my ONE reliable hard CC, meanwhile the thief just regens all his hp in stealth, and won’t let me reset combat, balance right there.

I’d rather have them have perma-stealth until they initiate combat than the way that it is now. It’s ridiculous that they can attack, restealth then repeat this an unlimited amount of times, it’s actually impossible for me to do anything about this whatsoever if i’m solo roaming.

But hey it’s been made clear to me that anet just straight up hate rangers. 30% of our damage is our pet, which makes 30% of our damage kittened and hey, you can kill them. Combine all of this with our crappy mobility and a thief that’s flying around stealthing all day makes for an impossible fight, against anyone decent anyway.

Slackoth.2108:

Yeah this mechanic is just outright stupid in WvW, they will attack and stealth all day, i play ranger, i don’t have the AoE you people are talking about. So when they attack and i push them back, why can they just restealth? I just wasted my ONE reliable hard CC, meanwhile the thief just regens all his hp in stealth, and won’t let me reset combat, balance right there.

I’d rather have them have perma-stealth until they initiate combat than the way that it is now. It’s ridiculous that they can attack, restealth then repeat this an unlimited amount of times, it’s actually impossible for me to do anything about this whatsoever if i’m solo roaming.

But hey it’s been made clear to me that anet just straight up hate rangers. 30% of our damage is our pet, which makes 30% of our damage kittened and hey, you can kill them. Combine all of this with our crappy mobility and a thief that’s flying around stealthing all day makes for an impossible fight, against anyone decent anyway.

Actually your pet is only about ~12.5% of your damage, it varies depending on your build, but 30%? Where’d you get that? (Source for ~12.5%: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLlGMDtoams). Considering that guy uses traps and his pet actually hits the target, the damage the pet does is a fair bit higher than the damage the more conventional pets like Wolf and Spiders do. despite those conventional pets having a higher theoretical damage.
Rangers also recieved a pretty neat ‘buff’ to Rapid Fire, depending on your view. Could also consider it a nerf because of how easy it can be dodged or blocked.
You also got various Hard CC skills depending on how you choose to play. if your #4 on LB is all you got, that’s your fault. Entangle, Muddy Terrain, even some of the pets can do Hard CC’s like the Wolf’s Howl.

As for mobility, the Sword gives great mobility, the GS gives great mobility…
It’s just how you choose to play.

So, while I agree that those thieves that run 6 in SA are indeed quite scrubby and using a crutch trait (Shadows Rejuvenation) and something could (=should) be done about it…
So while I can understand your frustration, you are really just having a big issue with the build you play, how it lacks in many aspects of what is desired in a fight and how it’s really just YOUR issue.

Having that out of the way, time to get on topic.
Stealth can be overpowered with the deep SA traitline, the cleansing is ok, the healing is fair enough, together it’s indeed ‘OP’. How to fix it though… No idea.
Simply nerfing the healing that you get while stealthed from Shadows Rejuvenation is such a boring route to take and probably not the best option…

I played with SA, it’s fun to troll with for a bit, but it always just feels a bit ‘meh’ to me.
Fights just get stale and boring too quick for me.
Besides, it’s possible to deal with it even though I mainly play S/D and “should be hardcountered” by such builds… It’s difficult and it was very frustrating but after practicing against them, those thieves become predictable.

Invisible doesn’t equal Invincible.

Im gonna beat the dead horse a bit, but I just wanted to add my 2 cents as someone who does not main a thief:

I copy-pasted this response I gave to another similar thread about this mechanic:

I really don’t see stealth as being as much of a problem as everyone seems to regard it. I have and enjoy my thief, but I do not main it, I play other classes in PvP more often than my thief. Thieves are exceptionally squishy, and they still take damage while stealthed, so I put down as many AOE’s as possible when they stealth to keep the pressure on them and force the thief into the defensive. Also, just blocking one or two backstabs in a fight is huge, because time is against a thief in a fight due to them being so squishy.

It’s just a sad situation atm thief’s are gave crap for whatever they run. S/d evade spam p/d condi cheese but i personally think d/p shadow arts is just pure cancer, kitten that most people think, remove condis in stealth, heal in stealth why wouldn’t I want to take this?
It’s impossible to kill a good d/p thief sure you can make them retreat and you can see that as a victory but meh.
Get them low poof there gone.
Condi unload on them poof there gone.
Get 3-5 in a roaming party poof your gone insta ganked.
Of course if they make a mistake and get to impatient there dead.
I mean basilisk venom backstab is enough to make you use a utility and a heal. We all no they will keep reseting and whittle you down.
I used to get mad but i don’t see it as losing anymore.
(strictly wvw opinion)

Napo.1230:

It’s just a sad situation atm thief’s are gave crap for whatever they run. S/d evade spam p/d condi cheese but i personally think d/p shadow arts is just pure cancer, kitten that most people think, remove condis in stealth, heal in stealth why wouldn’t I want to take this?
It’s impossible to kill a good d/p thief sure you can make them retreat and you can see that as a victory but meh.
Get them low poof there gone.
Condi unload on them poof there gone.
Get 3-5 in a roaming party poof your gone insta ganked.
Of course if they make a mistake and get to impatient there dead.
I mean basilisk venom backstab is enough to make you use a utility and a heal. We all no they will keep reseting and whittle you down.
I used to get mad but i don’t see it as losing anymore.
(strictly wvw opinion)

You get outnumbered in WvW against any class and you are going to be dead 9 times out of 10. Yeah, you see the “outnumbered” videos on youtube all the time, but remember they are well edited.

Also, you get a group of any particular class and it’s going to be very OP. Imagine a group of all LB rangers chain RF’ing you to death, or a group of grenade engi’s chaining thier Grenade Barrages. Me and few others in my guild roamed around one time, all on our zerker Hammer warriors, we were unstoppable.

[/quote]
Also, you get a group of any particular class and it’s going to be very OP. Imagine a group of all LB rangers chain Rkitten you to death, or a group of grenade engi’s chaining thier Grenade Barrages. Me and few others in my guild roamed around one time, all on our zerker Hammer warriors, we were unstoppable.

[/quote]
I’d love to see a group of rangers or engi but on my server i only seem to play against thief roaming groups of the shadow arts/condi kind (especially barach bay they love some 5 man thief action)
I wasn’t clear about going up against a group of them I apologise, I meant equal numbers vs equal numbers ofc the bigger number wins….usually
But a huge burst of unavoidable backstabs from several thief’s in quick succession is just home time.
I also think rangers and engi’s aren’t even close as slippery as thief’s so like I said I’d welcome it.
I’d rather dodge grenades and rapid fire any day

come on guys, get it to 5th page so I can post that picture again.

Zero Day.2594:

come on guys, get it to 5th page so I can post that picture again.

I like mine better:

Torgrim.3642:

SA thieves are the most boring to face and the sad part is that SA players actual thinks they are skilled players when using that, It’s really sad and quite laughable.

I play SA thief, but only use 2 stealth skills. Blinding powder and shadow refuge. My heal is withdraw. I prefer to fight visible and move a ton. Stealth only as last resort.

I prefer to fight 2 or more people just to see what I can do. I could care less if I lose. 95% I win 1v2. 75% 1v3. Last week I won a 1v6 against a pug havoc. Only using two stealth mechanics and evades.

So.. couple of things wrong with your post.

1) Knockbacks push me right out of the shadow refuge and into a reveal state. Most 1v2 fights, one of the enemies has a knockback, so my shadow refuge is usually null and void and I have only 1 stealth mechanic.

2) I do not have a condition removal skill. So I am vulnerable to condition damage AND running only 1 effective stealth mechanic.

Blinding powder is on a 40 second cooldown. So every 40 seconds I stealth once yet you say SA thieves are not skilled.

Someone like me must have killed you using 1 stealth mechanic and you are just too unhappy with your life to admit it. Would you have been in that group of 6 I killed? I think so. I was pretty thrilled I won, considering I attacked you guys just to see how good I could do before death.

All I can say to OP is crymore pls. I love it when people whine about certain builds/profession because they present some sort of challenge to they’re game play. If all you do is complain you will never become a better player at this game and in life for that matter, grow up.

If you are having trouble with something in this game, learn it, practice with it, duel against it offend.

Xtinct.7031:

All I can say to OP is crymore pls. I love it when people whine about certain builds/profession because they present some sort of challenge to they’re game play. If all you do is complain you will never become a better player at this game and in life for that matter, grow up.

If you are having trouble with something in this game, learn it, practice with it, duel against it offend.

Not a constructive comment in any sense, with exception to the last part about dueling against a particular build often (I am assuming you meant often and not “offend”).

That’s how I learn to counter builds that I am having trouble with: I grab a guildie who runs that build, or a similar one, drag them into our guild’s private server and duel them until I learn to beat them. This does get frustrating sometimes though, because often the guildie gets bored and doesn’t want to put in the time that I may need to get an understanding of how to defeat them. But until A-net adds a proper dueling system, it’s the best option we have.

Jitters.9401:

1) Knockbacks push me right out of the shadow refuge and into a reveal state. Most 1v2 fights, one of the enemies has a knockback, so my shadow refuge is usually null and void and I have only 1 stealth mechanic.

That right there is the sole reason I use pistol/shield on my engineer in WvW. I love it when thieves plop down SR expecting to make a getaway, only to be immediately knocked out of it. Warrior and guardian hammer works exceptionally well for this too.

Your correct Gern, it wasn’t entirely constructive. I am frankly getting fed up with a small group of players trying to dictate to the entire playerbase on what requires change or balance based mostly on their lack of playing skill.

Gern.2978:

Zero Day.2594:

come on guys, get it to 5th page so I can post that picture again.

I like mine better:

Yeah, I will use your’s from now on.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Dhemize.8649:

T raw.4658:

This again?

Thieves are weak 1v1 except vs shatter mesmers. Even then a dble ranged shatter mesmer can win if he’s not taken by surprise

T raw.4658:

Thieves are weak 1v1 except vs shatter mesmers.

T raw.4658:

Thieves are weak 1v1

……………… O.O ………

I pretty much had the same WTF reaction…

Thief does best ganking someone who’s unaware, especially ones unaware because they’re already fighting someone. Higher odds of getting burst off and higher chance their CDs will be burned (invuln, block, heals, etc). After that their 1v1 skirmish power is mediocre and risky and often Thief will have to run away and try again. If you’re good enough to pull it off then great, but that is the general power of Thief. In Spvp for example you’re better off understanding you can’t 1v1 and just sticking with jumping people your allys are fighting.