Guild Wars 2

ensoriki.5789:

This is fixing it?
Combo fields are not just for the thief. If a warrior savage leaps through your field towards an enemy and gets stealthed. That is Supposed to happen. It’s part of Cross-Profession-Combo’s. You’re suggesting a breaking down of team-based mechanics for an individual problem. So you’re suggesting a Cool down on CnD upon success? That discredits it from the initiative system for weapons the profession is based on.
This makes actual sense as a fix instead of arbitrarily putting limitations on skills themselves and without discrediting the Smoke Field. You get, 3 or 4s of Stealth as a “break” from your enemies. At which point it’s fight or flight. Make a choice and take initiative (pun intended).

A warrior jumping through smoke field getting stealth yes, if he turns around and jumps through it again it counts as an attack so instead of stacking it he gets revealed.

The CnD fix is the harder one, cooldown probably wouldn’t be the way to go, but maybe on use it could give a debuff that prevents it doing any damage a second time, so you COULD CnD spam, you just wouldn’t acheive anything beyond being invisible and being invisible while not actually elminating anyone means your not just useless but more vulnerable.

These where just examples of ways to fix problems without blanket nerfing things

This would be a horrible change.. keep in mind culling is being fixed in the next patch, this will already fix “stealthing” in a huge way.. and the only problem with the current stealth (apart from culling) is Shadow Refuge being too OP. Hence I don’t use it on my thief because it literally takes away the skill of playing the class, play without Shadow Refuge and you’ll find thief more enjoyable.. it’ll require skill because you need to land your CnD.. or with d/p you need to avoid hitting people when going stealth..

I never understood all the whining about the thief class because the only time I found thiefs “OP” is when I only just started playing Guild Wars 2, I think the class is just too much for new players to understand.. playing a thief the way it’s supposed to be played is a lot harder than some people would think.

Fix the AoE stealths (and make you only stealth with actual targets/combos= skill), this would be a nerf I’d look forward to.. but reveal buff each time you get out of stealth? Renders thief completely useless imo.

Dasorine.1964:

ensoriki.5789:

This is fixing it?
Combo fields are not just for the thief. If a warrior savage leaps through your field towards an enemy and gets stealthed. That is Supposed to happen. It’s part of Cross-Profession-Combo’s. You’re suggesting a breaking down of team-based mechanics for an individual problem. So you’re suggesting a Cool down on CnD upon success? That discredits it from the initiative system for weapons the profession is based on.
This makes actual sense as a fix instead of arbitrarily putting limitations on skills themselves and without discrediting the Smoke Field. You get, 3 or 4s of Stealth as a “break” from your enemies. At which point it’s fight or flight. Make a choice and take initiative (pun intended).

A warrior jumping through smoke field getting stealth yes, if he turns around and jumps through it again it counts as an attack so instead of stacking it he gets revealed.

The CnD fix is the harder one, cooldown probably wouldn’t be the way to go, but maybe on use it could give a debuff that prevents it doing any damage a second time, so you COULD CnD spam, you just wouldn’t acheive anything beyond being invisible and being invisible while not actually elminating anyone means your not just useless but more vulnerable.

These where just examples of ways to fix problems without blanket nerfing things

So you blanket nerf /D builds.
Or you nerf the smoke combo field, despite any other combo field in the game letting you leap in it twice. Many professions have 2 or more leaps and making team mates capable of (further) complicating your stealth by misplaced fields.

You’re not avoiding anything, you’re picking and choosing.

This change here structures the defense and what its roll is. Which is a temporary breather from targetting and AI.

I am fine with the nerf. I will adjust.

However, the only thing I want is this:

Please allow our heal “Hide in Shadow” to ignore the reveal debuff.

Reduce reveal debuff time from 3 to 2 seconds?

Say thanks for all the “hackers” who abuse the stealth with the Thief and Mesmer in PvP.

They should nerf every AoE stealth thief has.. but shouldn’t touch the ones that actually require you to land a hit or require you to combo. The only OP thing about stealth right now is AoE such as Shadow Refuge imo.. it angers me each time a thief manages to escape with 5% health using Shadow Refuge.

But revealed each time you get out of stealth will literally destroy all of our current builds imo.. and maybe even the purpose of playing a thief, the only complaints really come from people that don’t understand the class.. and they often hide behind the excuse of playing a thief themselves lol.

Agreed, a skillful player can archieve a lot more playing a thief than any other class, because of the stealth/survivability options thief has, this is also why I swapped my Thief over Guardian (although I am a beast on my Guardian as well lol, people that 1on1’d me would confirm, my Guardian is able to destroy any class except Ele because of the speed/healing it has ;P)

I’m more interested in the extra boon strips and the “boon-hate”/“boon punishment” they speak of. I would love to systematically tear down bunkers in that way instead of using raw spike. I hope that’s what they were going for.

Teamkiller.4315:

Reduce reveal debuff time from 3 to 2 seconds?

mixu.4281:

So, I happened to stop by the GW2 State of the Game stream just in time for their discussion on thieves. Apparently, ANET plans to change stealth so that it applies the revealed buff, regardless if you hit something or not.

Discuss.

About time.

Been playing Thief since August and never, ever abused any form of “restealth-on-unstealth”.
It’s gimmicky and borderline cheating.

I think this will be a good change as long as the buffs do balance it out

Laika.8795:

Ok, I’m using my phone and tired so I’m sure I read too deeply into the stacking aspect of the sentence. All good, 100% approve.

Columba is probably on his way to the laundromat to clean his pants.

If you can still stack stealth some people will just keep complaining about permastealth highest dps highest mobility godmode OMGWTFBBQ.

Like if you miss an attack or always? Either way, as thief player I have no problem with this and actually promote it so long as it doesn’t interfere with my rotation which this shouldn’t.

Dual.8953:

Like if you miss an attack or always? Either way, as thief player I have no problem with this and actually promote it so long as it doesn’t interfere with my rotation which this shouldn’t.

You know what rotation does ? makes you predictable.

Karolis.4261:

Dual.8953:

Like if you miss an attack or always? Either way, as thief player I have no problem with this and actually promote it so long as it doesn’t interfere with my rotation which this shouldn’t.

You know what rotation does ? makes you predictable.

Depends on how long the rotation is. And how many you have.

Karolis.4261:

Dual.8953:

Like if you miss an attack or always? Either way, as thief player I have no problem with this and actually promote it so long as it doesn’t interfere with my rotation which this shouldn’t.

You know what rotation does ? makes you predictable.

I can shake it up with Infiltrator’s Strike, Flanking Strike and dodge rolls. In any case my rotation involves a lot of blinds and dazing, so I think I’ll be fine in CQC. And if not, that’s what Sb is for

The change doesn’t do anything if you attack out of stealth since you would have gotten revealed anyway.

What it does change is chain CnDing, and D/P thieves since you can no longer immediately stealth again if you fail to backstab someone. Which is a pretty big hit to those builds, but is warranted as they are rather ridiculous

This won’t hurt spvp that much. It will hurt in WvW by a lot.

Funny how people still think thieves will get any buffs this patch.

Zog.3954:

Funny how people still think thieves will get any buffs this patch.

Pretty sure I heard something about boon hate and more mobility (since they even said that the ele has better mobility) and something about more build diversity and more staying power.

Maugetarr.6823:

Zog.3954:

Funny how people still think thieves will get any buffs this patch.

Pretty sure I heard something about boon hate and more mobility (since they even said that the ele has better mobility) and something about more build diversity and more staying power.

Yup, stuff about more boon stripping and punishing opponents with heavy boons. Warriors will also get something to the latter effect, apparently.

Yes, you heard that. BUT they didn’t said it will be in this patch. Was a conceptual idea about thieves and their gameplay, possibly in the future.

It will be interesting. It shouldn’t really affect my combat performance but I won’t be able to troll zergs inside towers for 30 minutes anymore. If they are adding more mobility, I say do it.

So long as it’s not “Increased reveal buff timer to 3 minutes” like some people are suggesting -.-

Zog.3954:

Yes, you heard that. BUT they didn’t said it will be in this patch. Was a conceptual idea about thieves and their gameplay, possibly in the future.

….AN hardly ever says whats coming in their next patch. The only thing that we can really say will change in this one is the culling options since they did a blurb about it.

A few of the triggered stealth effects might need rebalancing if this happens. They need to be worth their short stealth duration and the reveal duration.

more mobility to weapon sets other than shortbow! YES PLEASE

woo happy with what was said in that interview as i dont chain stealth, ever

i want more viable builds, do this and my thief will come come out of semi retirement

Honestly? What if I need to use HiS a ways away from the enemy, and now I get revealed?! This can’t happen. Especially you D/P thieves, what if you run out of stealth, that smokescreen heartseeker won’t save you now.

I just really hope the buffs overshadow the nerfs for once. They’re always too focused on breaking/nerfing things and ignore all the stuff that need fixed/buffed.

If that happens i go tank thief and just do completely nothing.

Honest truth depending on how this works DP is going to get royally screwed. Blind does no travel and quick attacks will out pace application. This goes to the heart of the issue of why thieves defense is so kittening low. Unless you play a glass cannon or an evade build this kitten is a death not for anything tanky. I get why they are going it but once this applies to pve my thief is going on the shelf. Not a threat or anything but there are better builds on other classes.

Hahahahah. A much welcomed change. Should have been like this from the beginning.

It felt cheesy whenever I could cloak and dagger someone to death without even popping up on their screen.

Did not watch “sotg” but this is a big joke right? What’s the point of playing a thief if they are going to basically kill stealth? Guess it’s time to re-roll another class.

Developers going full…you know what.

Weren’t they also supposed to nerf AOE? It could turn out to be a lot of nothing.

avilo.1942:

Did not watch “sotg” but this is a big joke right? What’s the point of playing a thief if they are going to basically kill stealth? Guess it’s time to re-roll another class.

Developers going full…you know what.

Chain stealth had little to no impact on tpvp. This is purely in response to WvW.

MIrra.3604:

avilo.1942:

Did not watch “sotg” but this is a big joke right? What’s the point of playing a thief if they are going to basically kill stealth? Guess it’s time to re-roll another class.

Developers going full…you know what.

Chain stealth had little to no impact on tpvp. This is purely in response to WvW.

Sounds incredibly dumb. Seems like they’re catering to whiners who cry about thieves but are perfectly happy with 20+k HP warriors that can faceroll things without stealth.

Stealth is a huge part of the thief class. It would be incredibly asanine to make it worse, especially with a revealed debuff.

If they ever did that (which i doubt they will go through on) then thieves would need a massive armor boost or something else in return…which just makes it too similar to other classes…

I don’t keep up with tPvP or w/e pvp because gw2 pvp is basically non-existent as an e-sport, but wvw is purely for fun isn’t it?

Why are you guys more worried about the stealth nerf? It’ll barely affect you compared to the nerf to mug they said they’re gonna do? Stop nerfing other weapons in attempt to nerf dagger!! It is the same as cloak and dagger nerf which was designed to stop d/d cnd with mug and backstab.

If they have to nerf stealth the best way IMO is to make it a 0-duration (so boon duration wont apply), intensity stacking boon (each stack is 1s, so you’ll get the benefit of seeing a countdown timer). That way stealth can be balanced against other classes abilities to remove boons.

Sceinna.3561:

They should nerf every AoE stealth thief has.. but shouldn’t touch the ones that actually require you to land a hit or require you to combo. The only OP thing about stealth right now is AoE such as Shadow Refuge imo.. it angers me each time a thief manages to escape with 5% health using Shadow Refuge.

But revealed each time you get out of stealth will literally destroy all of our current builds imo.. and maybe even the purpose of playing a thief, the only complaints really come from people that don’t understand the class.. and they often hide behind the excuse of playing a thief themselves lol.

Agreed, a skillful player can archieve a lot more playing a thief than any other class, because of the stealth/survivability options thief has, this is also why I swapped my Thief over Guardian (although I am a beast on my Guardian as well lol, people that 1on1’d me would confirm, my Guardian is able to destroy any class except Ele because of the speed/healing it has ;P)

Didn’t make much sense. You said a skilled player gets most out of a thief and then stated 2 much better pvp classes. So thief is 3rd?

The only problem is:
does revelaed trigger when a stealth ends or when you leave stealth?
1- will broke the class
2- not a real big problem

what I mean is SR pulses stacking stealth if revealed trigger when the first pulse goes off then we have to think to big changes to our builds… otherwise you just have to time well you skills to not leave stealth.

Finally, more skill required from then on. Sick of thieves who always stealth-leave the fight when they lose. (I have a thief, too, and I think it is the right thing to happen.)
Less QQ, more skill.

Flaphy.7135:

Finally, more skill required from then on. Sick of thieves who always stealth-leave the fight when they lose. (I have a thief, too, and I think it is the right thing to happen.)
Less QQ, more skill.

This is not going to fix this issue.. since you can still Shadow Refuge your way out hinthint

Anet needs to fix stealth AoE, not the stealths that require you to be active in combat, maybe reduce the damage on CnD so people couldn’t “chain abuse” it to kill people, although I’ve never seen that happen lol..

There are a million ways to counter a thief, the easiest one is to spam AoE all around you.. or the fact a thief has NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO stability other than Dagger Storm, sure you still have some getaways such as Shadowstep, but those require skill and reaction to use in a situation where you’re being knocked down repeatedly.

I always have the feeling people who are supportive of this idea are spies who secretely hate thiefs. o.o

This “fix” would kill everything a thief stands for in WvW imo, the real problem is not the thief, it’s the kittenty players that aren’t willing to learn about the class and only complain on the forums.

Good thing I just dropped my Shadow-Troll build and went back to CDBurst.
I’m on the fence about the change to Stealth, it could be exactly what is necessary to balance out the few remaining vestiges of “OP” that the Thief has.
(Shadowing an entire 5-man whilst simply spamming CnD every 4s to down someone without ever leaving Stealth for more than 1/2-1s was over the top. I’m sorry Troll Thieves, it is/was.)

More to the point, D/P Stealth sloots will still be able to do what they do best- there’s just no safety net to ease your fall if you kitten-up your Stealth rotation (*insert a clever comment about Risk/Return).

Personally, I’m running a D/D + SB build and I usually spend most of my time in SB anyway, relegating D/D to ONLY the Burst rotation (i.e. the downing of my target), then quickly back to SB while I wait on my cooldowns to come up.

I will say that 3s of Revealed for popping HiS is a tad steep- maybe a revitalized trait from BWE2 might be just what the Thief needs to compliment the surge in ‘No-Stealth’ builds. My suggestion:

(Shadow Arts, Adept Tier)
Veiled Assault/Shadow’s Protection
Gain 3s of Protection and Regeneration whenever you are Revealed.

Really though, fellow Thieves, this change will be inconsequential if you know your classes capabilities and deficiencies and compensate accordingly.

While I’ve never utilised the “Cheese” of CnD spam (CnD > Wait 2.5/3.5 seconds and use it again so it hits the split second stealth wears off to achieve perma-stealth)

It’s kind of a ham-fisted approach to Stealth to give revealed upon leaving stealth.

This kind of change brings detrimental effects to such abilities as Descent of Shadows (Taking falling damage will cause revealed, not huge but still annoying in WvW), Last Refuge may be even less effective and Hide in Shadows may even be detrimental to survivability (Sure it will heal and provide regen, but you’re guaranteed to be vulnerable for 3 seconds at some point after using it)

Not to mention the harsh side-effects of not being able to land a backstab/tactical strike/sneak attack due to targets dodging (Whilst it’s strong currently, they mentioned lowering damage output in favour of “Boon hate” without nerfing the stealth moves, thus shifting more of a focus onto these attacks. Especially on non-boon bunkers…)

If they also screw over stealth stacking, traits like Descent of Shadows, Last Refuge, Hidden Thief as well as abilities such as Blinding Powder and Shadow Refuge will become much worse. Possibly funnelling more focus onto the cheesy “CnD + Mug > BS” glass cannon builds (Since there’s going to be limited stealth to keep you in a fight via damage avoidance, healing, condition removal, initiative regen, Might stacks etc)

mixu.4281:

ANET plans to change stealth so that it applies the revealed buff, regardless if you hit something or not.
Discuss.

So, this is completely sucks.
Anet showed their dilettantism again. Great.

So, give to thieves more heals or defense or damage.

Aervius.2016:

(Shadow Arts, Adept Tier)
Veiled Assault/Shadow’s Protection
Gain 3s of Protection and Regeneration whenever you are Revealed.

Really though, fellow Thieves, this change will be inconsequential if you know your classes capabilities and deficiencies and compensate accordingly.

I think, our defense is in stealth, not in the protection buff

SilverWF.4789:

Aervius.2016:

(Shadow Arts, Adept Tier)
Veiled Assault/Shadow’s Protection
Gain 3s of Protection and Regeneration whenever you are Revealed.

Really though, fellow Thieves, this change will be inconsequential if you know your classes capabilities and deficiencies and compensate accordingly.

I think, our defense is in stealth, not in the protection buff

we do NOT have any protection buffs, while others have PERMA protection

Without getting to play with it, the change from this basically just means that every time someone stealths, you know there will be a 3 second window in which they cannot stealth.

Those fighting a thief should plan to use the first 2 seconds for damage and maybe CC the 3rd sec to keep the thief unstealthed longer.

Those fighting as a thief should plan to use dodge rolls, interrupts, etc. during those 3 seconds.

As I said before, it could be good, but it could also not be enough or be too much of a nerf. It also affects Mesmers.

Sebrent’s last point is indeed correct. I main Mesmer, and have an 80 Thief I’m still learning to work well with. That kind of change will modify how stealth builds on
both classes work. Now, I’ll definately admit it will modify Thief far more, since
chain-stealthing works differently between both classes. I’ll wait to see how it plays,
but at this point, I’m rather glad I’m SB/Dual-Pistol build. Might have to drop that 20 SA … or just use it as an “Oh kitten” switch, like I use Stealth on my Main.

OTOH, the idea of improved mobility/boon-reaming is bloody fun. Especially when I roll with a boon-ripper signet on my SB. Overall, as long as the planned “nerf” to Stealth is compensated in some fashion, I’d think most Stealth-users’d find a way to work around it.

ensoriki.5789:

Dasorine.1964:

So much for the “we wont be nerfing professions again”

A lot of this is going to not only cripple some thieves in pvp but many pve thieves.

Also the lack of stacking stealth makes shadow refuge useless, sure fixing being able to stack it via spamming attacks through a smoke fields maybe worthwhile doing, but stealth doesn’t last that long regardless and the majority of times of letting stealth fade and going back into it is for escape rather than assault in both pve and pvp.

If these changes go through without a LOT of discussion and some boost or things given back to us then I’ve lost all faith in ANET and their dirty dirty lies.

Watch the interview.
Hear when they say they want thieves to be better in team fights and think we are too weak in that department.
Hear where they say we could probably remove more boons.
Hear where they say our mobility should be better and Eles are doing our job.

Buffs are coming our way, they’re just reducing the cheese.

Ya, and those changes won’t be in this update. So THF is officially craptier.

so in pvp I die then I see a thief appear… 5 times in 2 minutes. Add to that the fact that I’m supposed to be a ‘bunker’-ele. in 3 games I never got perma-stealth thieves down to even half-health but I got killed in 2-5 seconds flat.
Your stealth allows you to go full glass cannon which is OP to the max. You even get medium armor.