Guild Wars 2

Anyone else planning on making one on the 10th?

After playing warrior I’m finding it really hard to go back to a DPS thief. Hate to say but warriors are superior in almost every way besides the access to stealth in PvE. But i really enjoy my thief and want to play it again. With the increase in base initiative regen, less necessity to stack crit, and a new venom heal i feel like making a venomshare support thief.
I’m probably going to follow the pandicond build, for condition stacking so i can still provide decent DPS in a group although i might swap the Dire gear out for settlers/shaman depending on how much additional heal i get for the additional healing power.

w8 and see as for now the healing skills doesnt seem too good to use even with a group

messiah.1908:

w8 and see as for now the healing skills doesnt seem too good to use even with a group

They said 7.4k group heal with clerics + 4.3k+whatever healing power adds to that on self. Thats fully traited ofc, but it seems reasonable assuming you dont waste charges.
Although i guess you lose the utilities from HiS/Withdraw.

you need to build 30,0,30,0,0 build 10 left wherever.
fully cleric will five you 3k attack 3k armor 10k hp so basically no power and no hp

what we suppose to be i cant remember?
reminder – Experts at stealth and surprise, thieves can move through the shadows, vanish into thin air, or steal items from their opponents and use them as weapons. Thieves practice an agile, acrobatic fighting style, which can make them very hard to hit.

leech trait will give around 2600 health regen and venom will give around 3800 health regen if not blocked evade miss and 36 cd

so only 4 ppl will be affect by it and as most aoe will be in the front line some misses will be so i bet on 5k heal on average which water ele skill does the same or even better

Why are you talking about clerics set when I’ve already said I’ll be running a mix of settlers/shaman or Dire depending on how well it scales.
I plan on running a condi build, actually quite close to your Panicond build with a few minor supportive tweaks.

My intention is dungeons rather then WvW so not sure how my DPS will compare to a DPS build but I’m hoping to be useful in other ways, since not all fights are DPS races and If all goes to plan i’ll be able to keep those glass cannons alive and still dish out some useful damage while I’m at it.

definitely NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
because venoms are USELESS in solo roaming PVP

Arkantos.7460:

definitely NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
because venoms are USELESS in solo roaming PVP

PEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE VEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

edit: Actually why the hell would you run a venom share build for solo roaming in PvP!? o.O

in pve (i am not expert in it)
but in shaman/settler gear you’ll have low condition dmg 1k i think
and useful in other ways i dont think so much V other classes out there

It is a short duration burst heal, not a long duration heal over time. You’ll also spec to share it.

Being a shared burst heal, its usage its maximized the lower your health is and the greater the number of targets it affects.

Ask yourself how many times in a dungeon do you expect to find the whole party severely wounded and stacked next to you, and you’ll get an estimation on its overall usefulness over other healing skills. More often than not, you’ll share it with 1 or 2 teammates at most.

Also, take into account that if you use it for yourself without affecting anyone else, it is a waste of the venom-share. And, if you use it to burst-heal a wounded mate when you are ok, you’ll have to endure 45(36) seconds without potential healing for yourself.

MyCondolences.8172:

Arkantos.7460:

definitely NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
because venoms are USELESS in solo roaming PVP

PEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE VEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

edit: Actually why the hell would you run a venom share build for solo roaming in PvP!? o.O

You asked the question " are you going to be running a venom share build Dec 10th" and he answered.

venomshare build? really?
i created thief because a want an 1v1 spiky class, not an aoe buffer, i higly dislike these builds, if i wanted to be a support class i wouldn’t play the thief class in first place, and yes i am angry because instead of increasing the viable build for direct fighting they are reducing them in exchange of those support builds.

ITT : there’s not much to speculate about, it seems a bad heal, but as always you have at least to wait the spell to be in game before deciding if its viable or not

I’m gonna try 30/10/30/0/0 100% condition duration S/D again, it’s an alright niche build now but I think the ini boost dec 10th will help it more than the venom heal. But to be honest I don’t think venom builds will be good for a long time.

Any Thief PvE build that isn’t based around DPS is a joke and should be ignored.

I’ve got 10/30/30/0/0 d/p +sb in my head for spvp. Only using the heal venom as well as basilisk venom for the venom share. More tanky but less damage than 10/30/0/0/30. More useful at the mid fight but not useless in 1v1.

Auesis.7301:

Any Thief PvE build that isn’t based around DPS is a joke and should be ignored.

LOL. Gotta love blanket declarations from people who think that whatever idea they come up with is the only possible good one.

Nobody would ever come up with new build ideas if they followed that sort of attitude.

If any armor used in such a build, I would think Apothecary the best for condition with 30/0/30/0/10 and some settlers mixed in for the extra vitality. I might experiment with it but withdraw is such a good heal all around with that evade and the immob cleanse.

It won’t cost me any extra to play with as I got a set of apothecary along with settlers trinkets to use.

I am not stoked by this in any way. I am looking forward to the INI changes.

It sort of locks you into a 30/0/30/0/0 X build which is not THAT diverse. More diverse builds would come were venomshare the Grandmaster in deadly arts over say panic strike.

I for one plan on at least giving it a fighting chance with a P/D setup and settler amulet, probably something along the lines of 20/0/30/x/x.

Viking Jorun.5413:

I for one plan on at least giving it a fighting chance with a P/D setup and settler amulet, probably something along the lines of 20/0/30/x/x.

Yes. My build currently 20/0/30/0/20 . I am really not sure the loss of that one extra strike all that great. Testing the 20 percent less recharge rate over the gambling mans Improv might be interesting allowing for a possible instant extra heal.

I find in large group fights when i roam the periphery with P/d and go in and out of stealth as needed the absolute need for a heal on demand is less so an improv might work better here allowing one to share ones heals with another group of 5.

no ty

useless healing spell, bad build

Are you telling me to use Last Refuge?

MyCondolences.8172:

Why are you talking about clerics set when I’ve already said I’ll be running a mix of settlers/shaman or Dire depending on how well it scales.
I plan on running a condi build, actually quite close to your Panicond build with a few minor supportive tweaks.

My intention is dungeons rather then WvW so not sure how my DPS will compare to a DPS build but I’m hoping to be useful in other ways, since not all fights are DPS races and If all goes to plan i’ll be able to keep those glass cannons alive and still dish out some useful damage while I’m at it.

If i see a venom sharing thief in my fractal group, i’ll kick him.

I will never use a venom shared build reasons why:

1) Takes away DPS.
2) Venoms dont work well with each other.
3) IMO other traits are more worth whiled for thief.
4) Your taking away survival utilities and traits us thieves need.
5) You want be needing all the venoms all the time and you will be wasting them sometimes., you will need to use the right one for the right job
—example: Your 100% healed up, but 2-3 members are almost dead, so You cast it to heal your members, now your stuck with no heal if you attack, or attack gain no heals and then have your heal on CD.
6) Not all venom’s work with your build.
7) Small radios, Unless your in a dungeon or fractal and stacking, its not a large area and easy to miss other payers.
8) Cooldown, unless you put MORE traits into them (again wasting good DPS traits for a few CC or a little extra condition damage), they have a to long of a cooldown to be very usefull.
8a) When looking at Cooldowns I compare them to How useful they are, what they can do for you and the team plus other skills similar, and comparing them to Signets, Shouts, Glamour, Deceptions, traps(ranger) and tricks, I feel they arnt worth the wait.

IMO to make venom’s GOOD, they need to have a 30sec base cooldown, with a PASSIVE ability and if they are blocked or your blinded IT DOESNT COUNT as being used up.

Qaelyn.7612:

Auesis.7301:

Any Thief PvE build that isn’t based around DPS is a joke and should be ignored.

LOL. Gotta love blanket declarations from people who think that whatever idea they come up with is the only possible good one.

Nobody would ever come up with new build ideas if they followed that sort of attitude.

Well, it’s true. Thief support building is garbage. The only good thing we have going for us is damage potential.

You want support, take Deception utilities and SoA. That’s all you need. Other classes are far better at supporting the group and don’t sacrifice over half potential DPS to do so.

If you are going to run a support build, why not pick a class that’s good at it? This thing turns a DPS class into a one trick pony, and it’s not an especially good trick.

ninja medics r coming

MyCondolences.8172:

Arkantos.7460:

definitely NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
because venoms are USELESS in solo roaming PVP

PEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE VEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

edit: Actually why the hell would you run a venom share build for solo roaming in PvP!? o.O

For the potentially hilarious YouTube videos.

messiah.1908:

you need to build 30,0,30,0,0 build 10 left wherever.
fully cleric will five you 3k attack 3k armor 10k hp so basically no power and no hp

what we suppose to be i cant remember?
reminder – Experts at stealth and surprise, thieves can move through the shadows, vanish into thin air, or steal items from their opponents and use them as weapons. Thieves practice an agile, acrobatic fighting style, which can make them very hard to hit.

leech trait will give around 2600 health regen and venom will give around 3800 health regen if not blocked evade miss and 36 cd

so only 4 ppl will be affect by it and as most aoe will be in the front line some misses will be so i bet on 5k heal on average which water ele skill does the same or even better

Why not go 20/x/30/x/x or 25/x/30/x/x? Then you have 15-20 skill points to play with. Residual Venom’s hardly worth sacrificing one our remaining Master Minor Traits for.

i actually just posted a build fore the new healskill, it’s full cleric, using the new healing skill and full venoms. it focuses of condi dmg and stealing/signet activation for damage, and it’s tanky and has tons of sustain, it would be used for group wvw and zerging, (WvW)
what do you guys think of it?
:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAV6KFhmLNpai/cCh7hFCVPlmCaym6UkVaFA-jkCBYiKzIOBiCAiWAmOAIPqIasFhFRjV1ATtiIq2roIa1CB8dNA-w

13k hp is not tanky cnd+bs will take you down even with 3k armor and condition dmg is low so you dmg wont be notice in wvw

Dual.8953:

Why not go 20/x/30/x/x or 25/x/30/x/x? Then you have 15-20 skill points to play with. Residual Venom’s hardly worth sacrificing one our remaining Master Minor Traits for.

it depends on what you wanna be
full supporter go 30,0,30,x,x with venoms and sklek healing skills potential of 4k healing 800*5
20,0,30,0,20 for more vigor so bit more dodges up time and soften guardian and ele

so in group fight i want to max my share so i go 30,0,30,0,10

Why would we want to go venomshare for this? If we really wanted to heal our team we could roll a guard, used 2 handed mastery and a staff and heal for at least 4500 health in a 600 radius ever 48 seconds and provide might just by using empower. I’m not going to invest multiple traits in multiple lines to become a weaker version of something that already exists and not even bring a unique aspect to it. Plus that’s going to severely limit my dps output without providing the same mechanics that a guard has to make up for lower damage output (such as high retal uptime and wide aoe attacks)

@messiah it’s tanky for a thief and keep in mind all of that is exotic armor, you’ll be a bit higher if hp and armor if you have ascended/bloodlust from bordlerlands buff, and this build isn’t about having tons of damage, it’s about supporting your team and staying, which you will with 3k+ armor and 13-15k+ health, plus the regen from and the regen from initiative use.
@maugetarr why can’t a thief roll out as a support build? why do guardians have to be the ONLY support build? also thieves can provide the group with venoms, not just healing. and thieves would be able to heal every 36 seconds, not 48 :p an again this is a SUPPORT build, NOT a dps build.

so go guardian you’ll be more supportive than this. its not about why thieves cannot be supportive class as they can but you need to ask yourself if as group leader would you want another guardian or thief as support roll. i think we know the answer for this one.

thieves job is to do dmg first which is support other by not taking dmg from the backline

dont get me wrong. panicond build i come up with was to support my group with more conditions dmg and might and life steal but i was sure not to dismiss my dmg output so i can still contribute between 36 seconds

you want that after your raid your group will ask who was that thief, and say wow etc
with my build even with pugs group i have been noticed that so i know my build contribute. but i dont think that build focus on full supporter build every 36 seconds will be noticed much just because of the new healing skill which give 4-5k healing every 36 seconds only to 4 more ppl

Messiah got it right. What I’m saying is that the thief is going to give up major sections of their build to basically be less effective than a guard. They aren’t bringing any unique aspect to their group by traiting this way, in fact they are giving up what makes them (fairly) unique by giving up shadowsteps, SR, blinding powder, etc. to bring weaker versions of weapon skills that other classes don’t even have to trait (as heavily) into. If you want utility/damaging venoms, you might as well bring a traited staff necro who would have constant AoE conditions which can be made unblockable and are ranged on a much shorter CD.

Meanwhile you really give up either your ability to spike a target or survive stepping into the fray to spike said target by trying to pick up the traits to make venoms useful.

As long as Venoms remain Utility skills and not F2-4 skills they’ll remain fat and useless.

I’m not against thieves having support builds. In fact I gave venom share an honest shot. I used it primarily for almost every single dungeon path in the game and I used it in WvW with guildies. The only time I did not feel completely kitten was when I could get every party member. I might actually reconsider venom share if one of two things were met. 1. If venoms were f2-4 skills like suggested above or if in parties it triggered all bonuses on all party members with a much much larger range. But this heal skill even if it triggers all venom trait bonuses just makes a bad build slightly better… Maybe.

One other thing that might help is if the life leach could trigger on all venoms used per strike so you didn’t have to pace out the venoms to get the most damage out of them. Let’s be honest the most likely way you are going to get everyone is during a stack. But if the the trigger radius was much much larger this might not be an issue anyways.

venom share needs 900 range. and even then I still won’t use this POS heal. SoM 4 life.

Yah SoM is brilliant in many circumstances. But I don’t use it for WvW and it is arguably better in almost every way from what I have seen of this venom heal so I am even less tempted to use it for WvW.

Going by the replies in this thread no one should be playing thief.
Everything a thief can do, another class can do it better.

Anyways, despite what people say, I’m still going to try out this build and see how it goes. At the moment i have no reason to play thief when i can go /godmode on Warrior and do more DPS and have more sustain then thief. In context of PvE thiefs are the jack of all trades, master of none, they can do a little bit of everything but always worse then someone else. I’m hoping to take advantage of this and make an interesting build that’s fun to play and brings something to the table. At the end of the day, if it fails, my thief will be no worse off then it is now.

MyCondolences.8172:

Going by the replies in this thread no one should be playing thief.
Everything a thief can do, another class can do it better.

Anyways, despite what people say, I’m still going to try out this build and see how it goes. At the moment i have no reason to play thief when i can go /godmode on Warrior and do more DPS and have more sustain then thief. In context of PvE thiefs are the jack of all trades, master of none, they can do a little bit of everything but always worse then someone else. I’m hoping to take advantage of this and make an interesting build that’s fun to play and brings something to the table. At the end of the day, if it fails, my thief will be no worse off then it is now.

The thief does do one thing really well and that is be annoying. A good thief is going to reset the fight at the first sign of danger leaving the opposing player wanting to break his keyboard. This is purely because of stealth and I’d honestly say that mesmers are now way better at it since they have the further annoyance of clones/phantasms and destroy people while doing it.

When I heard they were doing new heals I was really hoping to do a new thief build, but this heal is just absolute trash. It requires too many traits to even approach the other new heals. The necro one is just so much better considering it has a lower cooldown than our traited skelk venom, gives group utility without a trait, has a passive heal, and increases dps. It’s not even a close comparison and I can’t figure out how the devs thought it was balanced. If they are trying to balance based on venomshare then that just shows how inadequate their balancing team truly is. Venoms are already subpar considering their effects are short lived, weak, get wasted on evades/blocks, small share radius, and have large cooldowns considering all this. I’m not going to drop 60pts on a venom build so I can waste a spot in a group attempting to share venoms when I can just hop on another character and do the same stuff better and not waste 60pts doing it.

Venoms in the current form are the best way to waste all utilities and traits doing something that necros and engis do just smashing the face on the keyboard: spam conditions.
And a thief class should be a… thief class (spike damage or condi i dont care) not a nurse or a buffbot. Pity devs don’t understand it. Too busy to buff warriors. Godkiddomode ftw!

mrmadhaze.8706:

Venoms in the current form are the best way to waste all utilities and traits doing something that necros and engis do just smashing the face on the keyboard: spam conditions.
And a thief class should be a… thief class (spike damage or condi i dont care) not a nurse or a buffbot. Pity devs don’t understand it. Too busy to buff warriors. Godkiddomode ftw!

My builds going to be condi
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYUQNAoYVlYmiPXaS0E/5EB3DmC1n6VwraPupNjJA-jECB4iCik0AUIRMDqIas1gFRjVrjIqW3AzroIa1SBAzyK-w
Is what i’ve decided on atm. Might make some tweaks if i can think of something better.
Also not sure if merciful ambush works with shadow protector so that might be another change.

I can actualy perfectly believe myself running venom share as a Death blossom D/D thief spamming bleed gaining regeneration and conditions from poison with 10 might stack and a crazy amount of healing. People have been underusing death blossom of late due to the over abuse of stuff like teleport and backstab stealther anet likely is trying to do a promotion to condition thief again wich i do agree with

30 (venom gives might, reduce venom cooldown by 20%, venom apply an additionnal use)

0

30 (grant regeneration when the target has 2 or more bleed stack, venom leech health, share venom)

0

10 (proc might fury and swiftness to the party)

sounds like a killer for pve purpose and better yet a freaking build wich wont be squishy as holy hell and will actualy periodicaly dodge hits.

The nurse role is totaly accessory but having crazy healing (partywide and self) coupled with a lot of condition damage may actualy make thief more usefull in a party then it used to be (i dont mind stealth thief but lets be honest most are just a burden). I cant wait to try it in fractals of the mist

idk what they did to deathblossom but i wont run it anymore. it used to be months ago….. you could spamit and miss many attacks but now there is an after cast or delay so you are on ground longer before you lift off into your next blossom. too much dmg so i wont play it. die too quick.

Travlane.5948:

idk what they did to deathblossom but i wont run it anymore. it used to be months ago….. you could spamit and miss many attacks but now there is an after cast or delay so you are on ground longer before you lift off into your next blossom. too much dmg so i wont play it. die too quick.

What I like about death blossom is the AOE effect. You can not just spam it mindlessly. When a mesmer or thief goes into stealth when they are low on health or try to escape a pistol/dagger is not a very good weapon for trying to continue to inflict damage. Deathblossom works great. It also great with tightly clustered groups as happens in camps with the NPCS or in a fight where the confusion of battle sees a number of enemies clustered fighting your allies. You DB in and tag them all with a nice stack of bleeds then dodge away and move to another area.

If you fight one on one it less useful .

yeah but you used to be able to spam 2-3 without having to sit on the ground for a full second. now you do. its useless skill other than tagging now. just not what it used to be. if they want that 1 second on the ground between the skill use…then up the evade time. 2 secs between attacks and a 1/4 sec evade time. thats almost 90-% of the time you are str8 up vulnerable and open to attacks without having a chance to react. no thank you.

MyCondolences.8172:

Arkantos.7460:

definitely NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
because venoms are USELESS in solo roaming PVP

PEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE VEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

edit: Actually why the hell would you run a venom share build for solo roaming in PvP!? o.O

Theives guild, pop all venoms, kittenolol in a 1v1. Practical? No. Funny? Yes!

Venomshare in itself is worthless to begin with. I know that people would want their own unique builds, but venoms themselves are subpar when compared to the other skills save for traps. Sharing the venoms is also a waste since most venoms aren’t that good to begin with.

Just maybe if the lifesteal mechanic could also crit, we could make a nice p/p unload burster when all 5 venoms are popped with residual venoms and maybe Improvisation for a chance to refresh all your venoms for another burst, but as it stands now just forget about it.

The devs are beating a dead horse with a defibrillator as always….

More i read more is obvious many people has never runed a Venom Share built before or, if the did it, never for enought time. So many thieves will be very frustrated the first days they attemp to used in PvE for many reasons, but i can give you some little advises so you can choose to take it or not.

1- those 30 points in Shadow Arts make you an aggro magnet in dungeons and fractals, espetially whith the current meta were 80% of the runners go Berzerker to everywere. There are few solutions for this:
a) Go with gear whithout any thoughness, no very good idea because in Berzerker groups you still will be an aggro magnet but with less survavility, but if you go with a good tanky guardi it can work, some times (no, range weapons don´t drop aggro).
b) Go soldier (PVT) stats so you can withstand more damage for a little more time.

By alone those ideas do nothing for you survival, so go with a Sw/p is a good idea, blind fields for trash mobs and evades for Bosses. Even so, probably it will be not enought, so caltrops and SoM will help a lot, or HiS and SoA for condition cleaning and dodges could help a lot too. But if you are planning to go and use the new heal venom, well, i can´t advise you anything there, only whishing you good luck.

2- VS built are too dependable of others for be efficient, but most people dont even know how to use those venoms. There is only two solution for this.
a- always go with at least one friend who knows the basics of the venoms to everywere, so you can focus in she/he/them so your venoms don´t get lost in the air.
b- when you are going to use one or more venoms use the chat to announce it to your team/party so everyone get prepared for them (very much like Mesmer do with TW).

3- VS is a very tight built with very little variations, so you can get bored very soon. One solutions for this:

a- Change the built so you can enjoy better and more you thief, or change to one of your alts for the same, don´t worry, everyone but Anet will understand you and probably cheer you up.

Hope this can help any PvE thief out there who is whishing to run the VS build, any question you have ask Anet because i´m not going to run this build at least they pay me lots of gold for that.

venomshare isn’t great now and it isn’t going to be very great after the patch either. No one will want a thief for support. It just isn’t the role of the class.