Guild Wars 2

Walker.3056:

He used his steal + CnD + BS + AUTO CHAIN + CnD again…. dude how couldnt you even run and dodge? you could stun him or fear him idk wich class you are but u just needed to stun break or move and dodge after backstab so easy to counter….

And as people already said IF you are full Toughness/Vitality and took a 11k BS its cause the thief runs a pure glass full signet build with no STUN BREAK in it… Dodge the burst stun him and win… GG

I dont like to say it but its really a matter of L2P

I assume the OP’s screenshot didn’t detail the basilisk venom that stunned him, and he was probably already dead by the time the backstab hit, so the auto chain hit him while he was downed.

Of course, I guess we’ll never really know for sure. He could even just be an uplevel, in which case it’s quite easy to be literally 1 shotted by such thieves.

He probably wasent even PVT, because after 2800 a thief can’t hit
more than 6k backstab and yes he probably was dead because the thief
didn’t even spam HS to finish him . That means he didin’t have
any vitality unless he is an ele . Even ele full ascended PVT can
get 21k hp easely .

With sincerity, i believe everything the Op stated including his/her factual evidence.

To the thief class; without being in denial, you clearly know that the Op is telling the truth.

My question to the thief class, how many more evidence will it take for you to finally believe what you’ve done is wrong and need to be fixed?

Seriously,

I have been killed so much by this class, I’ve become immune to their 1-2-3 kills.

So what i’ve been doing lately is, whenever i encounter a thief or thieves, i just stand there and give them my body, afterall; it’s not worth fighting for what is already dead.

Burnfall.9573:

With sincerity, i believe everything the Op stated including his/her factual evidence.

To the thief class; without being in denial, you clearly know that the Op is telling the truth.

My question to the thief class, how many more evidence will it take for you to finally believe what you’ve done was wrong?

Seriously,

I have been killed so much by this class, I’ve become immune to their 1-2-3 kills.

So what i’ve been doing lately is, whenever i encounter a theif or theieves, i just stand there and give them my body, afterall; it’s not worth defending what is already dead.

ahah

Burnfall.9573:

With sincerity, i believe everything the Op stated including his/her factual evidence.

To the thief class; without being in denial, you clearly know that the Op is telling the truth.

My question to the thief class, how many more evidence will it take for you to finally believe what you’ve done is wrong and need to be fixed?

Seriously,

I have been killed so much by this class, I’ve become immune to their 1-2-3 kills.

So what i’ve been doing lately is, whenever i encounter a thief or thieves, i just stand there and give them my body, afterall; it’s not worth fighting for what is already dead.

MFW

Burnfall.9573:

With sincerity, i believe everything the Op stated including his/her factual evidence.

To the thief class; without being in denial, you clearly know that the Op is telling the truth.

My question to the thief class, how many more evidence will it take for you to finally believe what you’ve done is wrong and need to be fixed?

Seriously,

I have been killed so much by this class, I’ve become immune to their 1-2-3 kills.

So what i’ve been doing lately is, whenever i encounter a thief or thieves, i just stand there and give them my body, afterall; it’s not worth fighting for what is already dead.

I dare you to create a Thief, i create any class you chose i get full PVT and lets see if you can insta kill me i doubt it.

PS: Its funny how people SS only the damage, doesnt show H window and even the class/armor using on this kind of threads

Man. I wish I could land a crit of 11k on all those hammer warriors…

Burnfall.9573:

With sincerity, i believe everything the Op stated including his/her factual evidence.

To the thief class; without being in denial, you clearly know that the Op is telling the truth.

My question to the thief class, how many more evidence will it take for you to finally believe what you’ve done is wrong and need to be fixed?

Seriously,

I have been killed so much by this class, I’ve become immune to their 1-2-3 kills.

So what i’ve been doing lately is, whenever i encounter a thief or thieves, i just stand there and give them my body, afterall; it’s not worth fighting for what is already dead.

Oh, you’re one of those rangers that doesn’t bother dodging, blocking, knocking back, fearing, immobilizing, dazing or attempting any of the other myriad of skills rangers have to counter thieves? Explains a lot. Again, roll a thief so you can see what others do to counter you.

One stunbreak/fear/stealth/invulnerability skill/whatever into a self heal, maybe a dodge in between, would solve all your problems, original poster. If a thief is hitting you this hard, and you are not an uplevel, he is specifically designing his entire build around this much damage. You should have been able to easily get away even after the backstab via some type of stunbreaker/fear/teleport/whatever – assuming you were completely offguard. Secondly, the fact that you wern’t hit by a heartseeker (since most bad thieves build their “ultra mega” burst around it), I can only assume you were standing completely still. Secondly, he literally has no effective means of escape if he is building his build completely around attaining this much damage against a fully armored target – which there is no proof that this is even the case, since you don’t provide that. Even if he is running with a shortbow offhand, he will ether have enough initiative to shortbow 5 away or go into stealth. He will not have enough initiative to do both. He cannot have shadow refuge, and he cannot have shadowstep to help get away because this would cut into his “ultra mega” damage. Also, in order to switch weapons, you need to be out of combat – which is not such an effortlessly easy task to do so there is absolutely no reason to mention d/p perma-stealth thieves at all in your post, reflecting your current complaint.

Finally, this is obviously a WvW case and if this damage is seriously possible on a tanky class, which I highly doubt and you provide no proof to counter this, then all I have to say is that it’s WvW. WvW is beyond any type of balance which is inherent in its over-the-top stats.

Who other than warriors or guardians has 3000 armor without dumping 30 points into their Toughness traitline? I’m running Dire exotics with ascended accessories with toughness on them and I don’t have 3,000 armor.

Sorry, but I don’t think it’s reasonable to have to invest 30 points into a traitline solely to keep from being facerolled by a glass cannon thief.

Arkitech.9158:

I see you throwing around the word “moot” a lot. I hope you know that “moot” means debatable. So a moot point is a point that is up for debate.

moot (mut)

adj.
-of little or no practical value or meaning; hypothetical; purely academic.

It has more than one meaning. Recheck your dictionary.

Walker.3056:

He used his steal + CnD + BS + AUTO CHAIN + CnD again…. dude how couldnt you even run and dodge? you could stun him or fear him idk wich class you are but u just needed to stun break or move and dodge after backstab so easy to counter….

And as people already said IF you are full Toughness/Vitality and took a 11k BS its cause the thief runs a pure glass full signet build with no STUN BREAK in it… Dodge the burst stun him and win… GG

I dont like to say it but its really a matter of L2P

I was already downed after the first round of burst. “L2P” is the only thing warriors and thieves can come up with to justify what a joke your classes are. Broken records.

Yeah, it’s not that your class is overpowered: it’s just that everyone you meet in game is worse than you are. Truly.

Maderas.9741:

Who other than warriors or guardians has 3000 armor without dumping 30 points into their Toughness traitline? I’m running Dire exotics with ascended accessories with toughness on them and I don’t have 3,000 armor.

I play a full berserker thief as my main – 12.5k health on a good day and zero armor benefits. I don’t need 3,000 armor to survive a thief backstab. I use my stunbreak/teleport (shadowstep) to gain some distance, heal up, then port back to recover.

Infact I would argue to anyone that you shouldn’t rely on armor against any type of burst class – it’s there to help sustain the fight, but not to say, “I have a rock and you have scissors! I win!”

Instead, get familiar with the skills and utilities that your class has to defend itself from these types of attacks. Every class has them – get familiar with them.

I don’t think its fair that I have to dump 55 points, gear up glassy, fill my utility slots with 1 of the 3 most useless utilities and then search for some idiot who’se afking outside a tower to have any effectiveness in WvW.

Then again I don’t play thieves anymore, but you get my point.

Zacchary.6183:

I don’t think its fair that I have to dump 55 points, gear up glassy, fill my utility slots with 1 of the 3 most useless utilities and then search for some idiot who’se afking outside a tower to have any effectiveness in WvW.

Then again I don’t play thieves anymore, but you get my point.

Yeah, because AFK people are the only ones it’s even conceivable you could land this on what with having Steal and Basilisk Venom.

And to the rest of you saying I provided no proof of my gear/level… no, I’m not going to go to the effort of individually screenshotting each tooltip for all my armor and accessories just so you can move the goalposts again.

Maderas.9741:

Zacchary.6183:

I don’t think its fair that I have to dump 55 points, gear up glassy, fill my utility slots with 1 of the 3 most useless utilities and then search for some idiot who’se afking outside a tower to have any effectiveness in WvW.

Then again I don’t play thieves anymore, but you get my point.

Yeah, because AFK people are the only ones it’s even conceivable you could land this on what with having Steal and Basilisk Venom.

And to the rest of you saying I provided no proof of my gear/level… no, I’m not going to go to the effort of individually screenshotting each tooltip for all my armor and accessories just so you can move the goalposts again.

As expected

You’ve ignored the fact that you are complaining about the class that suppose to have the highest burst. You ignore information given to you from people with REAL experience. You refuse to prove you have any knowledge of this class whatsoever.

The only thing you’ve shown so far is that you can copy the complaints of bad players. If you can’t show anyone here that you know anything beyond popular belief, then you have no legitimate argument.

FYI: The reason why we say “post your build” is because a build is half of combat and can say quite a bit about a player. It is very common that builds get ripped apart in this forum but refusing to do so kills your credibility instantly.

Zacchary.6183:

You’ve ignored the fact that you are complaining about the class that suppose to have the highest burst. You ignore information given to you from people with REAL experience. You refuse to prove you have any knowledge of this class whatsoever.

The only thing you’ve shown so far is that you can copy the complaints of bad players. If you can’t show anyone here that you know anything beyond popular belief, then you have no legitimate argument.

+1

Maderas.9741:

Maugetarr.6823:

Cloak and Dagger precludes the use of black powder.

How? Most thieves I see are running D/P and D/D, and if they need to escape they use stealth to break combat and swap to Shortbow. Or they can just mash Heartseeker.

Stealth for D/P = Black Powder + Heartseeker
Stealth for D/D = Steal | Infiltrator’s Signet + Cloak and Dagger

Funny thing is, I don’t see a single Heartseeker in this chain. What I do see is two CnDs (one from Steal). The other just tells me you were standing there. Coupled with those kinds of numbers, you got picked out as a soft target, and for good reason.

Sorry :(

Maderas.9741:

Who other than warriors or guardians has 3000 armor without dumping 30 points into their Toughness traitline? I’m running Dire exotics with ascended accessories with toughness on them and I don’t have 3,000 armor.

Sorry, but I don’t think it’s reasonable to have to invest 30 points into a traitline solely to keep from being facerolled by a glass cannon thief.

Arkitech.9158:

I see you throwing around the word “moot” a lot. I hope you know that “moot” means debatable. So a moot point is a point that is up for debate.

moot (mut)

adj.
-of little or no practical value or meaning; hypothetical; purely academic.

It has more than one meaning. Recheck your dictionary.

Walker.3056:

He used his steal + CnD + BS + AUTO CHAIN + CnD again…. dude how couldnt you even run and dodge? you could stun him or fear him idk wich class you are but u just needed to stun break or move and dodge after backstab so easy to counter….

And as people already said IF you are full Toughness/Vitality and took a 11k BS its cause the thief runs a pure glass full signet build with no STUN BREAK in it… Dodge the burst stun him and win… GG

I dont like to say it but its really a matter of L2P

I was already downed after the first round of burst. “L2P” is the only thing warriors and thieves can come up with to justify what a joke your classes are. Broken records.

Yeah, it’s not that your class is overpowered: it’s just that everyone you meet in game is worse than you are, Truly.

Op, i encourage you to restrain yourself, be respectful..

Seriously.

(you do know thief class is very rooted, in other word, the only way to make a valid case in their forum is show respect; no matter what.

Remember, you are in their den, either you survive by being polite or be shred to pieces by being rude. (believe me, i’ve been shred to pieces too many times; i’m still learning)

As the saying goes, ’the way to tame a lion is to respect his fierceness and his pride"

Zacchary.6183:

You’ve ignored the fact that you are complaining about the class that suppose to have the highest burst. You ignore information given to you from people with REAL experience. You refuse to prove you have any knowledge of this class whatsoever.

The only thing you’ve shown so far is that you can copy the complaints of bad players. If you can’t show anyone here that you know anything beyond popular belief, then you have no legitimate argument.

Yeah, no practical knowledge of the class aside from the fact that I can be bursted down nigh instantly in full Dire gear. That’s all I really need to know within the context of this post. The thief line seems to be that it’s perfectly reasonable that any and everyone, even people running tanky gear, should be murdered if they don’t manage to dodge the thief’s opener – an opener which is almost impossible to dodge in anything other than a 1v1 scenario if they’re running Basilisk and use Steal on you; which speaks volume as to how reasonable you actually are.

xmtrcv.5236:

Maderas.9741:

Maugetarr.6823:

Cloak and Dagger precludes the use of black powder.

How? Most thieves I see are running D/P and D/D, and if they need to escape they use stealth to break combat and swap to Shortbow. Or they can just mash Heartseeker.

Stealth for D/P = Black Powder + Heartseeker
Stealth for D/D = Steal | Infiltrator’s Signet + Cloak and Dagger

Funny thing is, I don’t see a single Heartseeker in this chain. What I do see is two CnDs (one from Steal). The other just tells me you were standing there. Coupled with those kinds of numbers, you got picked out as a soft target, and for good reason.

Sorry

I never said he used stealth spam when he killed me, I said the “zero survivability” argument is moot since any thief running this build has access to stealth spam via Black Powder. I already answered somebody else about the two C&Ds.

I’m noticing that a lack of reading comprehension is a trend in this subforum.

You need to know way more than that before you even enter the thief forums.

Zacchary.6183:

You need to know way more than that before you even enter the thief forums.

According to thieves, anyway. I’d feel the same way if I could do 30,000 damage in ~2.5s to somebody in Dire exotics/ascended, I’m sure.

I’m pretty sure when thieves are talking about thieves that thieves’ words have more weight than non-thieves talking about thieves.

Me being a former thief, who has spent over a year theorycrafting every trait and build that I could possibly think of, can say “you should pay more attention and dodge more” without ever needing to read another post of your’s because unlike you I know how the thief works.

Thieves cannot magically pull 30k out of our kitten whenever we want to. But if you REALLY wanna beat the dead horse into another puddle then all I ask is:

“If it is so OP why aren’t you playing it?”

The underlying issue here is that you all cling so hard to your instagib cheese that you can’t even see that it has been ruining the entire class since day one. Now you’ve been pigeonholed into one viable solution with no other options and once that finally gets fixed… well, what are you going to do? At that point the class will be dead. Killed by greed.

I’ve been looking for motivation to gear my own thief but I just can’t bring myself to do it as I full well realize that the only way to be viable would be to cast my dignity aside and embrace the cheese. The class is in an extremely bad state at the moment and we all know the culprit. Instead of constantly resisting change why not welcome a different take on the class as a whole? One which perhaps renders it more than just a one trick pony.

Food for thought.

Zacchary.6183:

I’m pretty sure when thieves are talking about thieves that thieves’ words have more weight than non-thieves talking about thieves.

Me being a former thief, who has spent over a year theorycrafting every trait and build that I could possibly think of, can say “you should pay more attention and dodge more” without ever needing to read another post of your’s because unlike you I know how the thief works.

Thieves cannot magically pull 30k out of our kitten whenever we want to. But if you REALLY wanna beat the dead horse into another puddle then all I ask is:

“If it is so OP why aren’t you playing it?”

Funny, the thief who murdered me certainly had no problems pulling it out of her hat every time I’d run into her during a day in EB.

As for your latter question – because I can’t be bothered to level one, and because I have more self respect than to switch from a class I enjoy to one that has an overpowered build.

Not all of us want to win at any cost. We’re the ones who still haven’t rerolled thief/warrior.

Fungalfoot.7213:

The underlying issue here is that you all cling so hard to your instagib cheese that you can’t even see that it has been ruining the entire class since day one. Now you’ve been pigeonholed into one viable solution with no other options and once that finally gets fixed… well, what are you going to do? At that point the class will be dead. Killed by greed.

I’ve been looking for motivation to gear my own thief but I just can’t bring myself to do it as I full well realize that the only way to be viable would be to cast my dignity aside and embrace the cheese. The class is an extremely bad state at the moment and we all know the culprit. Instead of constantly resisting change why not welcome a different take on the class as a whole? One which perhaps renders it more than just a one trick pony.

Food for thought.

Don’t worry there was already an exodus.

The real problem is the self preserving thief QQ bandwagon that is wholly made up of people who have no knowledge of any class but their own, who didn’t pay attention to anything beyond moving forward or was afk out in the open, who smacked random buttons on their keyboard in panic when they eventually realized that their HP is below 30%, who felt shocked that someone would single them out without them knowing.

Its been the same type of people arguing the same complaint to people that have a way better understanding of what thief really is.

Then we have Anet who has absolutely no devs who play thieves, who nerf the more viable parts of the thief while traps/venoms and half of our signets remain useless without every trait for them equipped.

Our heal scaling is the worst in the game, 3/4 of our utilities are trash, 2/3 of our traits are useless and another 1/4 are situational and yet we keep getting ht with a nerf almost every patch.

This class has been stripped down to its steriotypical purpose: stealth and assassinate single targets.

So if you guys have anyone to blame, blame yourselves for not listening to us and blame anet for listening to you.

As for you Madraes:

If you don’t have anything constructive to say other than 11k damage in one hit is too much then this thread is done.

FYI: full dire doesn’t give much toughness or vitality. It gives condition damage. Try again.

Zacchary.6183:

If you don’t have anything constructive to say other than 11k damage in one hit is too much then this thread is done.

As opposed to your constant whining that the class isn’t any good when it’s one of the most powerful PvP classes in the game by far. When I’m in WvW I see far more thieves than rangers, or engineers, or elementalists, or mesmers, or necromancers… or any class that isn’t warrior. Funny how that works when the class is so very, very bad. And 28,000 damage in a few seconds is too much when the thief is engaging a target running full toughness/vita gear. You keep blathering on about how nobody is allowed to make observations on the class’ damage unless they play a level 80 thief, but the fact remains that people running toughness/vita gear should not be getting nearly instakilled by glass cannon thieves. The combat log linked in the OP should not happen. Ever.

I’m afraid you don’t decree when the thread is or isn’t done.

You didn’t die in a few seconds, OP, because it took at LEAST 4 seconds to kill you. You were hit by the CnD > Steal > Backstab combo, and assuming you didn’t die at that point (we have no way of knowing because your OP is full of crap and offers no evidence other than a tiny screenshot of some damage numbers in chat), the Thief had to wait THREE MORE SECONDS BEFORE HE COULD USE CLOAK AND DAGGER A SECOND TIME. AGAIN, THAT’S THREE SECONDS.

THREE.
THREE.
THREE.

Learn to play.

Guys, ignore Burnfall. He has been established as a troll and I seriously wish that Anet would ban him already. He doesn’t do anything but troll and posts nothing valuable or productive in any of his posts.

Incurafy.6329:

You didn’t die in a few seconds, OP, because it took at LEAST 4 seconds to kill you. You were hit by the CnD > Steal > Backstab combo, and assuming you didn’t die at that point (we have no way of knowing because your OP is full of crap and offers no evidence other than a tiny screenshot of some damage numbers in chat), the Thief had to wait THREE MORE SECONDS BEFORE HE COULD USE CLOAK AND DAGGER A SECOND TIME. AGAIN, THAT’S THREE SECONDS.

THREE.
THREE.
THREE.

Learn to play.

I’ve answered this twice now. Learn to read.

Zacchary.6183:

This class has been stripped down to its steriotypical purpose: stealth and assassinate single targets.

Yes it has. Now ask yourself why that is.

Could it be because the class did those things all too well and instead of attempting to nerf those aspects of the thief ArenaNet targeted others? And really, I wouldn’t expect to wring any sympathy out of the folks you’ve happily trororolled for over a year now. As this thread has aptly demonstrated it just isn’t there. People hate thieves because thieves aren’t fun to play against. Nor are they fun to play anymore really. And that is a kitten ed shame.

Maderas.9741:

I’m afraid you don’t decree when the thread is or isn’t done.

No I don’t. But you don’t have a valid argument which makes this thread a troll post. this thread is null by default.

@ Fungal

If anet were to perhaps make its other aspects more viable, thieves who refuse to use stealth will call out heavy stealth users and consider them bad players for using a crutch. That combined with the thief QQ train would make bad players reluctant to use stealth.

But anet didn’t do that and so now thief is as close to dead as it can get.

Maderas.9741:

Incurafy.6329:

You didn’t die in a few seconds, OP, because it took at LEAST 4 seconds to kill you. You were hit by the CnD > Steal > Backstab combo, and assuming you didn’t die at that point (we have no way of knowing because your OP is full of crap and offers no evidence other than a tiny screenshot of some damage numbers in chat), the Thief had to wait THREE MORE SECONDS BEFORE HE COULD USE CLOAK AND DAGGER A SECOND TIME. AGAIN, THAT’S THREE SECONDS.

THREE.
THREE.
THREE.

Learn to play.

I’ve answered this twice now. Learn to read.

No, actually, you haven’t. Learn to play, I’m sick of these pathetic threads like yours.

Seazen.7415:

This type of damage does not happen unless there’s a HUGE discrepancy in gear. I don’t understand why people just don’t try out thief and see if these big numbers really exist against people who are well-geared.

It’s WvW… not PvE… you have to actually fight with some intelligence… not stand there spamming your keyboard

To share a funny anecdote, I was playing about 2 minutes ago with an 80 engineer, an 80 guardian (the Guardian is pro), and 2 up levels. We were fighting one thief, from [fate] on FC server (I’m from Dh). Here’s how it goes:

I’m attacked, I’m literally downed in 2 seconds, battle log says:

2.2k damage steal
5.8k cloak and dagger
10.4k backstab

Okay, so I’m downed. Of course, I’m stomped quickly, can’t use fear or anything, after all, she’s about 10 billion miles away waiting to teleport back to me the second the stomp is about to finish. Anyhow, she stealths. My team didn’t have time to react the first time, but we’re ready the second time, okay? Nope, Engineer is ambushed, but being tankier than me, survives the opening barrage and gets his heal off, putting him to 1/2 hp. Surprise, the thief stealths again and the guardian barely got a hit off in time (the engi being too busy not dying to do any damage). Next, the engi runs off to regen, and the Thief switches target to the Guardian, downed in 3 seconds (Guardians have really low healthpools naturally, even though they have high toughness, their primary tanking ability comes from sustained healing either via boons/AH or meditations). Dead. The thief then 1 hits the up level, downed, dead. Other uplevel no where in sight, the Engineer runs into a nearby tower (this is WvW, mind you).

Tell me, how could we have played better? Don’t pull the “l2P” or “you should roll a thief and learn their stuff”, I know how to play and have a thief. I’ve been PvPing since launch (not BWE, just launch), and I know how to play all of my classes exceedingly well (not trying to brag, just being honest). I stood no chance. The only character I’d stance a chance on is my Mesmer, due to stealth, and I doubt I’d win even then.

Thief is far from OP, in fact, it’s UP in most aspects. But, it is broken, insofar as its stealth mechanic is easily abused in order to give exceedingly high survivability, and its burst is simply too high and too hard to avoid.

Edit: Also note, I fought this player on a dif occasion, using death shroud this time. I was nearly killed at the start of the battle, went into deathshroud as it was the only way to survive. She stealthed for so long that I literally ran out of death shround without taking any damage, and then killed me immediately upon exit.

Zacchary.6183:

Maderas.9741:

I’m afraid you don’t decree when the thread is or isn’t done.

No I don’t. But you don’t have a valid argument which makes this thread a troll post. this thread is null by default.

According to you. I, however, think I make a very valid argument that someone running toughness/vita gear should not be getting hit for nearly 30,000 damage in the span of a couple seconds.

Take your god complex elsewhere. Your opinion is just that. Opinion.

Arius.7031:

But, it is broken, insofar as its stealth mechanic is easily abused in order to give exceedingly high survivability, and its burst is simply too high and too hard to avoid.

I couldn’t agree more, which is the reason I made this thread – to highlight just how ridiculous their burst is. You’ve also perfectly encapsulated how every single engagement against a geared thief running this cheese build plays out assuming the thief is even semi-capable. Sadly, I guess we have to work in the cattle industry to know what bullkitten smells like.

Somebody mentioned Static Discharge engineers hitting as hard as thieves upthread. I’d say that’s highly debatable, but even if it’s true, the golden difference here is that an SD engineer sacrifices every ounce of survivability they possess in order to attain that damage. Apparently thieves have become so entitled now that they don’t consider stealth a survivability skill.

Maderas.9741:

Somebody mentioned Static Discharge engineers hitting as hard as thieves upthread. I’d say that’s highly debatable, but even if it’s true, the golden difference here is that an SD engineer sacrifices every ounce of survivability they possess in order to attain that damage. Apparently thieves have become so entitled now that they don’t consider stealth a survivability skill.

That’s exactly what Thieves do, but you’ve completely ignored all attempts to explain that to you.

Based on the almost non-existent information you’ve given us, OP, the build used against you was likely something like this:

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-c33V;1ZwV0-K5VOFd0;9;4OT;0E28-17A;44;05BW4;2G3G3G3G35BP

Now, please do explain to me how the Thief stealthed and got away with ease using that build after killing you because you weren’t carrying a stunbreaker and don’t know how to dodge.

Incurafy.6329:

That’s exactly what Thieves do, but you’ve completely ignored all attempts to explain that to you.

Based on the almost non-existent information you’ve given us, OP, the build used against you was likely something like this:

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-c33V;1ZwV0-K5VOFd0;9;4OT;0E28-17A;44;05BW4;2G3G3G3G35BP

Now, please do explain to me how the Thief stealthed and got away with ease using that build after killing you because you weren’t carrying a stunbreaker and don’t know how to dodge.

No, you don’t. You need to play a class without access to stealth if you want to know what sacrificing all survivability is really like.

And that’s not the build she was using. She had Shadow Refuge and was running DD/DP, which should make it obvious how she escaped after killing me. Once she broke combat with stealth spam she would swap out to shortbow and teleport away… though as Arius pointed out, a thief running this build rarely needs to run unless they’re outnumbered 5:1.

You all are clearly drastically over-exaggerating just how necessary it is to run full damage signets to attain the damage I linked in the screenshot, because that thief very clearly had Shadow Refuge. WvW in tier 1 is full to the brim with thieves running this build, slaughtering people, and escaping regularly. For all the people telling me I have no practical knowledge of the class, I shouldn’t have to explain how it works to you.

It obviously isn’t going to work if you try to use it on somebody in the middle of a zerg, but no other class has that advantage either so I’m not sure why it keeps being brought up.

Maderas.9741:

All of this damage was done in the span of about two to three seconds. I was dead before I even had a chance to react. This is running full Toughness/Vitality exotics with ascended trinkets.

Explain to me why this is allowed. And before you launch into the usual “glass cannon” blanket justification, any DP/shortbow thief worth their weight in salt is pretty much impossible to catch with the stealth spam even in full Berserker’s… so that’s a moot point.

Assuming all Berz gear and all ascended pieces, 25 stack of might, and 250 power from sigil stack, 60 bloodlust, his power will be at 3455.

The damage formula is 3455*wpn (1030 for ascended) = 3558650 *2.4 skill coef = 8540760 / armor 3000 = 2846.92 * damage increase 60% = kitten * crit damage 120% = 10021 total damage.

Sifu.6527:

Maderas.9741:

All of this damage was done in the span of about two to three seconds. I was dead before I even had a chance to react. This is running full Toughness/Vitality exotics with ascended trinkets.

Explain to me why this is allowed. And before you launch into the usual “glass cannon” blanket justification, any DP/shortbow thief worth their weight in salt is pretty much impossible to catch with the stealth spam even in full Berserker’s… so that’s a moot point.

I’m going to call BS that you have over 3K toughness.

Assuming all Berz gear and all ascended pieces, 25 stack of might, and 250 power from sigil stack, 60 bloodlust, his power will be at 3455.

The damage formula is 3455*wpn (1030 for ascended) = 3558650 *2.4 skill coef = 8540760 / armor 3000 = 2846.92 * damage increase 60% = kitten * crit damage 120% = 10021 total damage.

Basically, I just proved that you’re a liar.

Thanks,

And another thief wholly incapable of reading joins the fray. Once again, I never said I have over 3,000 toughness; I said I’m running full Dire exotics with Rabid ascended trinkets.

Maderas.9741:

Sifu.6527:

Maderas.9741:

All of this damage was done in the span of about two to three seconds. I was dead before I even had a chance to react. This is running full Toughness/Vitality exotics with ascended trinkets.

Explain to me why this is allowed. And before you launch into the usual “glass cannon” blanket justification, any DP/shortbow thief worth their weight in salt is pretty much impossible to catch with the stealth spam even in full Berserker’s… so that’s a moot point.

I’m going to call BS that you have over 3K toughness.

Assuming all Berz gear and all ascended pieces, 25 stack of might, and 250 power from sigil stack, 60 bloodlust, his power will be at 3455.

The damage formula is 3455*wpn (1030 for ascended) = 3558650 *2.4 skill coef = 8540760 / armor 3000 = 2846.92 * damage increase 60% = kitten * crit damage 120% = 10021 total damage.

Basically, I just proved that you’re a liar.

Thanks,

And another thief wholly incapable of reading joins the fray. Once again, I never said I have over 3,000 toughness; I said I’m running full Dire exotics with ascended trinkets.

I edited my post.

But I really don’t see where the problem is.

And you thinking your argument is valid is called an opinion and disregarding my comments because you think I have a god complex is called Ad Hominem which is an informal fallacy. Secondly, I don’t give my opinion on anything unless I have made observations on it which is entirely different from your opinions that are based upon one incident and popular belief.

Your original point is valid because thieves (being the best burst class) can hit for 10k in one shot. However, any rational debater would point out that you are biased and you lack a great amount of information. And they would not take you seriously because you have absolutely nothing to back up your statements that this needs to be toned down other than your word and popular belief which is false.

We all get that a thief hit you for 11k and you got your ego hurt, but guess what, you are the the 1000th person to complain about it and therefore nobody really cares.

If you don’t wanna take a week to learn about a class that is kicking your kitten , then its all good because it will keep killing you until you do. This is what “L2P” entails.

Sifu.6527:

I edited my post.

But I really don’t see where the problem is.

That a person with 22,000 hitpoints and 1600+ toughness shouldn’t be getting bursted down in 2 seconds like they’re wearing Berserker.

Zacchary.6183:

And you thinking your argument is valid is called an opinion and disregarding my comments because you think I have a god complex is called Ad Hominem which is an informal fallacy. Secondly, I don’t give my opinion on anything unless I have made observations on it which is entirely different from your opinions that are based upon one incident and popular belief.

Your original point is valid because thieves (being the best burst class) can hit for 10k in one shot. However, any rational debater would point out that you are biased and you lack a great amount of information. And they would not take you seriously because you have absolutely nothing to back up your statements that this needs to be toned down other than your word and popular belief which is false.

We all get that a thief hit you for 11k and you got your ego hurt, but guess what, you are the the 1000th person to complain about it and therefore nobody really cares.

If you don’t wanna take a week to learn about a class that is kicking your kitten , then its all good because it will keep killing you until you do. This is what “L2P” entails.

I think common sense fairly well dictates that it’s unacceptable that thieves can burst down people running 1600+ toughness in the span of two seconds. What is the point of toughness even existing in the first place if not to prevent instant death to burst damage? Maybe the fact that this has come up time and time again since launch ought to tell you something. I certainly don’t see people whining about Static Discharge very often even though it’s supposed just as good as this thief build.

You do have god complex. You seem to think reality should conform to your whims. Just because you think it’s okay for thieves to crank out such obscene amounts of damage doesn’t mean it is. Why does Toughness exist as a stat if this is okay? Why should anybody sacrifice half their DPS to run toughness armor when thieves will just kitten on them anyway? Explain that to me, since you’re such an enlightened guru on the tenets of class/itemization balance.

You know a person has no real point when they start busting out ad-hom accusations. By the way, saying my point is invalid because “nobody cares” is argumentum ad populum. At least be bothered to avoid making informal fallacies if you’re going to try to call me out on them.

Maderas.9741:

Sifu.6527:

I edited my post.

But I really don’t see where the problem is.

That a person with 22,000 hitpoints and 1600+ toughness shouldn’t be getting bursted down in 2 seconds like they’re wearing Berserker.

Like I said, I don’t see what the problem is.

I didn’t read the entire post so what class do you play again?

Also, I think mesmer being able to portal 20 ppl in a keep and bypass the door is more game breaking than someone insta dying to a thief. But everyone have their own opinion.

So OP got ganked by a thief while busying doing something else and not paying enough attention. No breaking news here. It happens quite often in WvW.

For a class that is specifically designed to rely on the element of surprise to prevail, I think it’s working as intended.

Get over it, learn from it and be more cautious next time.

Maderas.9741:

Sifu.6527:

Maderas.9741:

All of this damage was done in the span of about two to three seconds. I was dead before I even had a chance to react. This is running full Toughness/Vitality exotics with ascended trinkets.

Explain to me why this is allowed. And before you launch into the usual “glass cannon” blanket justification, any DP/shortbow thief worth their weight in salt is pretty much impossible to catch with the stealth spam even in full Berserker’s… so that’s a moot point.

I’m going to call BS that you have over 3K toughness.

Assuming all Berz gear and all ascended pieces, 25 stack of might, and 250 power from sigil stack, 60 bloodlust, his power will be at 3455.

The damage formula is 3455*wpn (1030 for ascended) = 3558650 *2.4 skill coef = 8540760 / armor 3000 = 2846.92 * damage increase 60% = kitten * crit damage 120% = 10021 total damage.

Basically, I just proved that you’re a liar.

Thanks,

And another thief wholly incapable of reading joins the fray. Once again, I never said I have over 3,000 toughness; I said I’m running full Dire exotics with Rabid ascended trinkets.

And another person wholly incapable of reading that he meant 3000 armour (as seen in the calculations), not toughness, which is exactly what you claim to have had.

I’m not even going to bother replying to your previous post, it’s just so full of bullkitten that it would be a waste of my time to even try and reason with you.

How about next time you take a screenshot of the entire screen, including your equipment and stats so that we can actually know what the hell you’re talking about? Your OP had literally no information and then you got all defensive and cried foul when you were called out on your bullkitten.

I also find it absolutely hilarious that you refuse to acknowledge the fact that you weren’t killed without time to react and had at LEAST four seconds to react, lol.

Learn to play, it’s as simple as that.

Wow. It is great to see a thread like this. Ever since the thief has been nerfed into the ground, they don’t get to kill many people anymore. I miss all the QQ threads.

Glad to see there are still a few noobs who die.

keenlam.4753:

So OP got ganked by a thief while busying doing something else and not paying enough attention. No breaking news here. It happens quite often in WvW.

For a class that is specifically designed to rely on the element of surprise to prevail, I think it’s working as intended.

Get over it, learn from it and be more cautious next time.

By “not paying enough attention” you must mean “a thief came across someone engaged in a fight and got a free kill, because it’s completely reasonable that the only way to not be instakilled by a thief is to reserve every single one of your dodges and stunbreaks for the off chance that some thief might decide to try to gank you.” Doesn’t matter if you’re running toughness/vita gear or building tank; no, if a thief expends the effort to use Steal on you and you don’t time your dodge perfectly, you deserve to be slaughtered in seconds. Balance.

Incurafy.6329:

And another person wholly incapable of reading that he meant 3000 armour (as seen in the calculations), not toughness, which is exactly what you claim to have had.

I’m not even going to bother replying to your previous post, it’s just so full of bullkitten that it would be a waste of my time to even try and reason with you.

How about next time you take a screenshot of the entire screen, including your equipment and stats so that we can actually know what the hell you’re talking about? Your OP had literally no information and then you got all defensive and cried foul when you were called out on your bullkitten.

I also find it absolutely hilarious that you refuse to acknowledge the fact that you weren’t killed without time to react and had at LEAST four seconds to react, lol.

Learn to play, it’s as simple as that.

I’ve never once claimed to have over 3000 armor or toughness, so I really have no idea what you’re even talking about. Again, you are wrong. My OP had the combat log, and I listed what equipment I was using. I’m not taking individual screenshots of every single piece of equipment + tooltip so you all can immediately start accusing me of finding them online, doctoring them, or having taken them on a different character. Like I said, it’s already been established that you will keep moving the goalposts to support your viewpoints. Why should I waste the effort?

I also like how my reaction window keeps shrinking. First it was seven or eight seconds, then five or six, now you’re saying four. I suppose now you’re going to start trilling about how I got hit by Cloak and Dagger twice.

Maderas.9741:

keenlam.4753:

So OP got ganked by a thief while busying doing something else and not paying enough attention. No breaking news here. It happens quite often in WvW.

For a class that is specifically designed to rely on the element of surprise to prevail, I think it’s working as intended.

Get over it, learn from it and be more cautious next time.

By “not paying enough attention” you must mean “a thief came across someone engaged in a fight and got a free kill, because it’s completely reasonable that the only way to not be instakilled by a thief is to reserve every single one of your dodges and stunbreaks for the off chance that some thief might decide to try to gank you.” Doesn’t matter if you’re running toughness/vita gear or building tank; no, if a thief expends the effort to use Steal on you and you don’t time your dodge perfectly, you deserve to be slaughtered in seconds. Balance.

Incurafy.6329:

And another person wholly incapable of reading that he meant 3000 armour (as seen in the calculations), not toughness, which is exactly what you claim to have had.

I’m not even going to bother replying to your previous post, it’s just so full of bullkitten that it would be a waste of my time to even try and reason with you.

How about next time you take a screenshot of the entire screen, including your equipment and stats so that we can actually know what the hell you’re talking about? Your OP had literally no information and then you got all defensive and cried foul when you were called out on your bullkitten.

I also find it absolutely hilarious that you refuse to acknowledge the fact that you weren’t killed without time to react and had at LEAST four seconds to react, lol.

Learn to play, it’s as simple as that.

I’ve never once claimed to have over 3000 armor or toughness, so I really have no idea what you’re even talking about. Again, you are wrong. My OP had the combat log, and I listed what equipment I was using. I’m not taking individual screenshots of every single piece of equipment + tooltip so you all can immediately start accusing me of finding them online, doctoring them, or having taken them on a different character. Like I said, it’s already been established that you will keep moving the goalposts to support your viewpoints. Why should I waste the effort?

I also like how my reaction window keeps shrinking. First it was seven or eight seconds, then five or six, now you’re saying four.

So quick question just so we can clear this up. How much armor do you have? You keep saying you’re full dire exo, but under 3k armor. I don’t consider armor high until they hit about 3100. That would be why we asked for a full screenshot in the first place.

Zacchary.6183:

And you thinking your argument is valid is called an opinion and disregarding my comments because you think I have a god complex is called Ad Hominem which is an informal fallacy. Secondly, I don’t give my opinion on anything unless I have made observations on it which is entirely different from your opinions that are based upon one incident and popular belief.

Actually, it doesn’t constitute an Ad Hominem unless he dismissed you based only on his personal attack. If he attacked you personally, but also gave reasons as to why you were wrong, then it does not constitute an Ad Hominem. In fact, upon investigate, he did in fact do more than just commit an Ad Hominem attack, see this quote:

According to you. I, however, think I make a very valid argument that someone running toughness/vita gear should not be getting hit for nearly 30,000 damage in the span of a couple seconds.
Take your god complex elsewhere. Your opinion is just that. Opinion.

Note that he does supply argumentation in support of his conclusion. He says that thieves are too strong because they can destroy tanks in a few seconds. Regardless of whether or not his argument succeeds, he did indeed try to support it, and did not dismiss your argument with only a personal attack. Thus, this is not an Ad Hominem attack.

Your original point is valid because thieves (being the best burst class) can hit for 10k in one shot. However, any rational debater would point out that you are biased and you lack a great amount of information.

Any rational debater would also point out that every human is biased and that bias does not constitute grounds for dismissing a claim. You will later go on to actually provide evidence that his claim is plausibly true, when you mention that 1,000s of people complain about the exact same thing. But, you’ll end up shooting yourself in the foot in the next paragraph, so let’s finish this one quickly and move onto that.

And they would not take you seriously because you have absolutely nothing to back up your statements that this needs to be toned down other than your word and popular belief which is false.

What do you mean here? That because it is popular belief, it is therefore false? People often misrepresents arguments which rely on popular belief as being Ad Populum arguments. This is false, as an argument that is based in the inductive evidence of many witnesses does, in fact, make it an inductive argument and not a fallacy. If someone moves from inductive argumentation to deductive argumentation (e.g. most people believe x therefore x) then it becomes a fallacy, but he’s never done that.

We all get that a thief hit you for 11k and you got your ego hurt, but guess what, you are the the 1000th person to complain about it and therefore nobody really cares.

So I suppose you say this to all the other 1,000s of people who have reported the same exact issue? Why is that, even though Mesmers are clearly the most OP class for dueling ATM, they’re not complained about nearly as much as Warrior or Thief? I think it’s because there’s a difference between something that is overpowered and something that is broken.

If you don’t wanna take a week to learn about a class that is kicking your kitten , then its all good because it will keep killing you until you do. This is what “L2P” entails.

Learning to play doesn’t make you start emitting tachyon beams that will detect people through cloak. If you’re attacked by certain burst thief builds, you simply can’t do anything (as I outlined in one of my posts above).

Maderas.9741:

I’ve never once claimed to have over 3000 armor or toughness, so I really have no idea what you’re even talking about. Again, you are wrong. My OP had the combat log, and I listed what equipment I was using. I’m not taking individual screenshots of every single piece of equipment + tooltip so you all can immediately start accusing me of finding them online, doctoring them, or having taken them on a different character. Like I said, it’s already been established that you will keep moving the goalposts to support your viewpoints. Why should I waste the effort?

I also like how my reaction window keeps shrinking. First it was seven or eight seconds, then five or six, now you’re saying four. I suppose now you’re going to start trilling about how I got hit by Cloak and Dagger twice.

Yes you did, lmao…

This is running full Toughness/Vitality exotics with ascended trinkets.

Also, I never said that you had any more than four seconds to react, other people said that. Judging by the, again, almost non-existent information you gave in the OP (a combat log screenshot doesn’t count, and I’m not asking you to post individual everythingz, just a screenshot of your gear + stats with the combat log, you on the ground dead would also help, but isn’t necessary), assuming you weren’t killed after the first combo, you had at least three more seconds to react after the combo was done, and that’s not even including the time that it took for the Thief to get in range of you, use his utilities, and do the combo beforehand. The fact that you then took half of an auto chain and ANOTHER CnD to die means that you clearly had plenty of time to react to the situation.

Also, regardless of what you may think, most other classes are capable of similar burst on an unaware opponent. A Fresh Air elementalist would have been able to do the exact same thing to you, but I don’t see you kittening in their forum.

Maugetarr.6823:

So quick question just so we can clear this up. How much armor do you have? You keep saying you’re full dire exo, but under 3k armor. I don’t consider armor high until they hit about 3100. That would be why we asked for a full screenshot in the first place.

With exotic Dire armor/weapons and ascended Rabid accessories you sit around 2700 armor. I don’t even know that it’s possible to hit 3100 armor as a medium armor wearer unless I either a) severely kitten my damage output and basically go full bunker or b) invest heavily into the toughness trait line; neither of which I think is a reasonable price to pay simply so that I don’t instantly die to any glass cannon thief who happens to look in my direction.

Incurafy.6329:

Yes you did, lmao…

No. You do not break 3k armor running full medium exotic Dire + rabid accessories. You are wrong.

Incurafy.6329:

Also, I never said that you had any more than four seconds to react, other people said that. Judging by the, again, almost non-existent information you gave in the OP (a combat log screenshot doesn’t count, and I’m not asking you to post individual everythingz, just a screenshot of your gear + stats with the combat log, you on the ground dead would also help, but isn’t necessary), assuming you weren’t killed after the first combo, you had at least three more seconds to react after the combo was done, and that’s not even including the time that it took for the Thief to get in range of you, use his utilities, and do the combo beforehand. The fact that you then took half of an auto chain and ANOTHER CnD to die means that you clearly had plenty of time to react to the situation.

I WAS DOWNED BEFORE I GOT HIT BY THE SECOND C&D. I CANNOT MAKE THIS ANY CLEARER, SO PLEASE ALLOW IT TO REGISTER THIS TIME.

The whole “the time it took for the thief to get in range” bit is ridiculous, too. It’s not difficult for a thief to get in range of you during a team skirmish or when he runs up on you while you’re fighting someone else. So because I lack prescience and couldn’t use ESP to detect the incoming thief, and perfectly dodge his opener, I deserve to die instantly despite my gear? Right.