Guild Wars 2

Like Forty Seven Ninjas.6982:

Just make it so they appear after any attack during stealth. Boom, problem solved, bad thieves super suck now, good thieves are still good.

I have a thief, I play said thief, I think it’s stupid that I get free chances at my backstabs as even if they are evaded or blocked. Makes 0 sense.

I completely agree with this, what’s super ridiculous is that even if I backstab into a block or an aegis I still don’t break stealth, so i can break a guardian’s aegis and backstab inmediately, or with something like a shield block I can just carry on spamming 1 until the block is down without losing anything. That doesn’t make sense and it doesn’t promote skill.

Only class in GW2 were players say you have to make one to beat one lmao.

Mordyph.2104:

Only class in GW2 were players say you have to make one to beat one lmao.

This is a common theme in all threads asking for help or saying something is op regardless of the profession. I believe it’s one of the best ways to Learn how to gift against a class. I have made one of each profession to play the builds I have trouble with I’m spvp and learn how to counter them. It will make your playing more rounded and you’ll have a lot more fun understanding other classes

Jakare.6807:

Like Forty Seven Ninjas.6982:

Just make it so they appear after any attack during stealth. Boom, problem solved, bad thieves super suck now, good thieves are still good.

I have a thief, I play said thief, I think it’s stupid that I get free chances at my backstabs as even if they are evaded or blocked. Makes 0 sense.

I completely agree with this, what’s super ridiculous is that even if I backstab into a block or an aegis I still don’t break stealth, so i can break a guardian’s aegis and backstab inmediately, or with something like a shield block I can just carry on spamming 1 until the block is down without losing anything. That doesn’t make sense and it doesn’t promote skill.

I wasn’t aware of this, actually. I’ve put up a block against thieves before and seen “block block block block” pop up, like 5-6 times real quick, and simply assumed it was their regular chain and that not being revealed was some sort of lag. What you’re saying is that they’re actually repeatedly hitting me with backstabs and then landing the backstab once my block goes down?

joshisanonymous.5270:

Jakare.6807:

Like Forty Seven Ninjas.6982:

Just make it so they appear after any attack during stealth. Boom, problem solved, bad thieves super suck now, good thieves are still good.

I have a thief, I play said thief, I think it’s stupid that I get free chances at my backstabs as even if they are evaded or blocked. Makes 0 sense.

I completely agree with this, what’s super ridiculous is that even if I backstab into a block or an aegis I still don’t break stealth, so i can break a guardian’s aegis and backstab inmediately, or with something like a shield block I can just carry on spamming 1 until the block is down without losing anything. That doesn’t make sense and it doesn’t promote skill.

I wasn’t aware of this, actually. I’ve put up a block against thieves before and seen “block block block block” pop up, like 5-6 times real quick, and simply assumed it was their regular chain and that not being revealed was some sort of lag. What you’re saying is that they’re actually repeatedly hitting me with backstabs and then landing the backstab once my block goes down?

backstab is the autoattack for dagger mainhand – with the prerequisite that the thief must be stealthed to pull it off. So since a miss (or apparently blocked attack) doesn’t reveal the thief, they can continue to auto-attack backstabs until one lands. the better defense for you going against a thief in that situation is when you see the blocks, you know their position more or less. this lets you immediately turn to face them, which will halve their damage on a backstab. You can also swipe at them at this point.

If you watch jumper’s videos (an evasion based thief http://www.twitch.tv/loljumper/c/2238503) where he duels a stealth based thief, you notice him determining the thief’s position by using evades and noticing when it registers an evade. Obviously these are both excellent players playing on a very high level, but the same principle applies in regular play.

My problems with thieves.

1. stealth gives them the ability to disengage ANY fight whenever they want, they can reset any fight that they want, if they die its because they were greedy and they felt it was worth the risk

2. Do you know when I get backstabbed most often? When I’m fighting someone else, multiple thieves? GG

its funny that the thieves that try and say they arnt OP try and list counters to thieves in 1v1 situations, it’s WvWvW not 1v1.

Sometimes I roam in a group of 3, 1 is a thief, I see how ridiculous they can be, I’ve faced against small groups where they have 2 thieves, that is even more ridiculous.

here’s a scenario:

You stealth…How can I focus something I can’t see? I can’t, so I only have 2 other options, focus their buddy or run

Option 1- Focus their buddy…I got a knife stuck in my back

Option 2- I run…oh man that thief is fast because I got a knife stuck in my back

as I lay there with a pole sticking out my kitten I go through the combat log and think, “kitten that’s a lot of dmg for only clicking a couple buttons”

I don’t have a thief. I’ve beaten my fair share of thieves 1v1 before…its when they are implemented in group play that they get out of hand. I don’t say they are OP I say that if played right they have an “Edge” over the rest of the classes. (I also say that about the Mesmer)

All the good thieves I’ve met say thieves are OP.

I just assume the ones that say otherwise are not good.

FooDang.2498:

here’s a scenario:

You stealth…How can I focus something I can’t see? I can’t, so I only have 2 other options, focus their buddy or run

Option 1- Focus their buddy…I got a knife stuck in my back

Option 2- I run…oh man that thief is fast because I got a knife stuck in my back

See, this is your problem. We thieves try to tell you that there is an option 3, but you guys just refuse to accept it. So here is option 3: play a thief, level it up, and learn how stealth works and the basic patterns used to enter stealth and what you do once in stealth. After that, you will realize that all your problems fighting thieves were a joke. Want proof? Here

backstab is the autoattack for dagger mainhand – with the prerequisite that the thief must be stealthed to pull it off. So since a miss (or apparently blocked attack) doesn’t reveal the thief, they can continue to auto-attack backstabs until one lands.

If thats the problem, make it like this: you stealth, you backstab and miss, you are stuck with autoattack for 3 seconds. There, fixed! You can’t dodge that one anymore via the “but then thief can’t autoattack while in stealth!11” crap.

yea sorry I skimmed but im going to have to disagree.

After playing last night in wvw trying to hold a supply with 8 people (no joke) we could not kill one thief. we downed his other thief friend and had to baby sit him so they couldn’t just heal and be back in the camp and through the whole time one thief would run in do damage to us maybe pick one of us off then run out with permastealth.

Sorry but it was just really stupid that 8 people cant kill one even with aoe and a mesm it was just stupid. I really never thought anything was wrong with this game until that situation.

I have a d/d ele (end engi) and for the most part agreed with the changes anet kept doing to them but wasn’t one of the biggest complaints that they can run in do damage then disengage with no fear (one reason for rtl nerf) but yet it is ok for the thief to do the exact same think to 8 people I mean come on.

So now like other I am building up my lvl 18 thief so I too can have a character that can roam solo and have no fear.

if they need to buff their toughness to compensate then fine but permastealth is just bad idea.

bobross.5034:

whelp the original post here is a bit out of date since the latest nerf. So again, QQers rest easy…the thief is finally squashed….

My favorite complaint about thieves is how they always get away…and it’s not fair, they should just die when they’re supposed to. Nevermind that base health is 10k, and the armor is paper. Never mind that 2 hits from your tanky build brought that thief down to 20%, it should’ve stuck around for that third hit, and since it didn’t it’s OP.

As Craig pointed out, other classes can be quite survivable as well, even when specc’d glass. The difference is that if you go against a guardian and can’t bring him down to 80%, after a while, you give up and decide wow, that was a good match. If you go against a decent thief, you may land a few blows on them, but if you bring them down to 20% and get away, you say…aww, I should’ve won that one and the OP’d thief got away!

So the issue here is really psychology. In one case you hit the guy 20 times and barely do a dent, so he must be a good player. In the second case you hit the guy 5 times, nearly kill him and then he gets away, so that’s unfair.

The whole reason thieves have such low health is because we have so many survival skills, it’s the reason you can be outplayed by thief, and still feel like you should’ve won. Just remember, if the thief isn’t downed, or running away from you, you haven’t won.

i know you’re not using theifs low hp and medium armor as a argument strategy, have you forgotten the 1 class thats even weaker? its called an elementalist, lowest base hp and armor, but do they still have their mobility despite how they’re even weaker than theives? do theives have a boot in their kitten punishing them for using the shortbow 5 without hitting something or heartseeker not hitting something? no, it doesnt use double initiative, it isnt put on a CD, its range wasn’t nerfed.

don’t try to bring up the bunker build either because theives have the same thing they have bunker builds to, with the same escapability except when a compentent group comes the theif isnt dead he just pops SR and goes halfway across the map before he finally reappears, if an ele tries that some theif can easily catch up to him.
and there will be no stop to QQ until pistol fives blind field no longer applies stealth.
why it hasn’t happened yet is beyond me.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Travlane.5948:

Dagraan.2854:

Incurafy.6329:

Craig.2403:

Alex.6940:

Do damage numbers appear in your combat log if you hit someone in stealth?

No, but if it is a chain attack, you will notice the chain progress. Also, if the skill has a visual effect that takes place on the target (most noticeable is ranger’s entangle, which leaves binding roots on the target) it will appear where the thief is, letting you know where the thief was when that skill hit the thief.

99.9999% sure that they do show up in the combat log.

hits don’t show up in the combat log when you hit a stealthed enemy, iv’e tried it before when trying to fight some perma stealth thief, and no standing in the blind field will not get you hit by their heartseeker, especially if they have the speed signet and the trait to give 50% more speed in stealth and since heartseeker is a leap its affected by it.
they’ll just jump right past you and not to mention the mobility they have means you’ll need another theif just to have a chance to get to the blind field in time, and even if he does hit you all he has to do is evade and pop shadow refuge or the heartseeker spam over the blind field again.

i have 6 accounts including a thief and i have never, ever hit something mid leap with the heartseeker, and the middle of the blind field is “mid leap”

when its said you hit somebody mid leap…. i think its when you jump from point a to point b there is a guy right between them even tho you jump past him you still hit him as you land on point b. this is quite common and happens to me all the time. if i stand in BPS you will break their invis withing 2.5 seconds guaranteed unless they use a heal/utility. also swing wildly inside of it :P

It doesn’t hit. I have played d/p enough to tell you can fairly easily avoid hitting someone who stands in the field, even if it slighlty slows down the stealth chaining process. And I’m not a very good d/p thief. Anyway, often I just backstab those who stand in the blind field.

hrm you can try avoid it if ur start the jump close to him but if hes half way or more thru your jump and in line u will hit him i could make a video of it :P

Dagraan.2854:

bobross.5034:

whelp the original post here is a bit out of date since the latest nerf. So again, QQers rest easy…the thief is finally squashed….

My favorite complaint about thieves is how they always get away…and it’s not fair, they should just die when they’re supposed to. Nevermind that base health is 10k, and the armor is paper. Never mind that 2 hits from your tanky build brought that thief down to 20%, it should’ve stuck around for that third hit, and since it didn’t it’s OP.

As Craig pointed out, other classes can be quite survivable as well, even when specc’d glass. The difference is that if you go against a guardian and can’t bring him down to 80%, after a while, you give up and decide wow, that was a good match. If you go against a decent thief, you may land a few blows on them, but if you bring them down to 20% and get away, you say…aww, I should’ve won that one and the OP’d thief got away!

So the issue here is really psychology. In one case you hit the guy 20 times and barely do a dent, so he must be a good player. In the second case you hit the guy 5 times, nearly kill him and then he gets away, so that’s unfair.

The whole reason thieves have such low health is because we have so many survival skills, it’s the reason you can be outplayed by thief, and still feel like you should’ve won. Just remember, if the thief isn’t downed, or running away from you, you haven’t won.

i know you’re not using theifs low hp and medium armor as a argument strategy, have you forgotten the 1 class thats even weaker? its called an elementalist, lowest base hp and armor, but do they still have their mobility despite how they’re even weaker than theives? do theives have a boot in their kitten punishing them for using the shortbow 5 without hitting something or heartseeker not hitting something? no, it doesnt use double initiative, it isnt put on a CD, its range wasn’t nerfed.

don’t try to bring up the bunker build either because theives have the same thing they have bunker builds to, with the same escapability except when a compentent group comes the theif isnt dead he just pops SR and goes halfway across the map before he finally reappears, if an ele tries that some theif can easily catch up to him.
and there will be no stop to QQ until pistol fives blind field no longer applies stealth.
why it hasn’t happened yet is beyond me.

oh god. TRADE me any day all your ele buffs/skills for medium armor. lol horrible HORRIBLE argument here.

ELE:
earths embrace : armor of earth (automatic trigger 50% HP)
protection 4-5 seconds everytime u gain an aura
cantrips = regen/vigor.
remove condi per attunement switch water
arcane shield around you at 25% hp
when attuning gain 1 might/swift/protection/regen
create blind or churning earth or flame blast or cleansing wave every dodge
Attunement bonuses linger for 5 seconds.
Regenerate health while attuned to water.
Heal nearby allies when attuning to water.(including self)
Gain 1 toughness per level while attuned to earth. =80

0 0 20 30 30 build. full zerk armor. more toughness and armor AND heals and pretty good dmg too. thief cant compare man :P this isnt even the best build just a random one i pulled up quick

heres others i didnt put in:

Gain regeneration for 10 seconds when you are attacked while under 25% health.
Gain toughness while using a channeled skill.
Grant stability (2s) to nearby allies when attuning to earth.
Dodge rolling removes burning and chilled. (Cooldown: 10 seconds)
Take 50% less damage from falling. Create a spell when you take falling damage, based on your attunement.
Fire: Ring of Fire
Water: Cleansing Wave
Air: Static Field
Earth: Earthquake
Mist Form, Frost Bow, and Signet of Water grant 6 seconds of regeneration. Damage and inflict chill and vulnerability to nearby foes while in mist or vapor form.
Remove a condition when granting regeneration to yourself or an ally.

all options within the same build…… also eles have all this on a stick …meaning they do it alot throughout a short period of time. thieves only have one decent heal and thats the trait in grandmaster SA line. just not a comparison….armor of earth….acane armor …protection….33% less dmg is basically turning a ele into a guardian. thief has no defensive boons…ele has stability protection on demand pretty much. god forbid they use lyssa runes etc.

trade me any day

Travlane.5948:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Travlane.5948:

Dagraan.2854:

Incurafy.6329:

Craig.2403:

Alex.6940:

Do damage numbers appear in your combat log if you hit someone in stealth?

No, but if it is a chain attack, you will notice the chain progress. Also, if the skill has a visual effect that takes place on the target (most noticeable is ranger’s entangle, which leaves binding roots on the target) it will appear where the thief is, letting you know where the thief was when that skill hit the thief.

99.9999% sure that they do show up in the combat log.

hits don’t show up in the combat log when you hit a stealthed enemy, iv’e tried it before when trying to fight some perma stealth thief, and no standing in the blind field will not get you hit by their heartseeker, especially if they have the speed signet and the trait to give 50% more speed in stealth and since heartseeker is a leap its affected by it.
they’ll just jump right past you and not to mention the mobility they have means you’ll need another theif just to have a chance to get to the blind field in time, and even if he does hit you all he has to do is evade and pop shadow refuge or the heartseeker spam over the blind field again.

i have 6 accounts including a thief and i have never, ever hit something mid leap with the heartseeker, and the middle of the blind field is “mid leap”

when its said you hit somebody mid leap…. i think its when you jump from point a to point b there is a guy right between them even tho you jump past him you still hit him as you land on point b. this is quite common and happens to me all the time. if i stand in BPS you will break their invis withing 2.5 seconds guaranteed unless they use a heal/utility. also swing wildly inside of it :P

It doesn’t hit. I have played d/p enough to tell you can fairly easily avoid hitting someone who stands in the field, even if it slighlty slows down the stealth chaining process. And I’m not a very good d/p thief. Anyway, often I just backstab those who stand in the blind field.

hrm you can try avoid it if ur start the jump close to him but if hes half way or more thru your jump and in line u will hit him i could make a video of it :P

Just out of curiosity and wanting to know for sure, I tested it on random creatures in Queensdale. I heartseekered from on top of a moa: no damage. I gradually pulled back until at about 200 range (aka, half the heart seeker range) I hit the moa, even though I landed past it. So I have confirmed this. I did not make a video but I can if anyone wants (though it won’t be the best quality).

stealth is far more valuable than any defensive boon, if you’re crying about all the boons eles can get then its called sword and dagger and spamming 3 then somehow all of an elementalists boons are yours, works with guardians too.
amazing isnt it? besides not to mention that water regen aint worth kitten, and 5 second boons go fast.

mist form has not ever granted regen only invul, nobody uses a frost bow outside of zerg v zerg and dungeons, and nobody i mean nobody uses that useless signet of water.
not to mention gaining toughness on a channeled skill only applies to 1 thing and thats churning earth which you can easily pop a blind or just a stun and it becomes useless. and goes back on its 30 second CD, but theives have no idea what a CD is.
i wish a-net loved eles like they do theives.

Dagraan.2854:

stealth is far more valuable than any defensive boon, if you’re crying about all the boons eles can get then its called sword and dagger and spamming 3 then somehow all of an elementalists boons are yours, works with guardians too.
amazing isnt it? besides not to mention that water regen aint worth kitten, and 5 second boons go fast.

mist form has not ever granted regen only invul, nobody uses a frost bow outside of zerg v zerg and dungeons, and nobody i mean nobody uses that useless signet of water.
not to mention gaining toughness on a channeled skill only applies to 1 thing and thats churning earth which you can easily pop a blind or just a stun and it becomes useless. and goes back on its 30 second CD, but theives have no idea what a CD is.
i wish a-net loved eles like they do theives.

I don’t know how you could think thieves have a better defense than eles. You guys have the ability to trait defensively, run 2 monk, 2 water, and 2 divinity runes some soldiers and have a massive uptime on boons for more defense and good offense. You can easily keep 18 stacks of might, perma fury, perma vigor, amazing swiftness, perma regen, stability when needed, and lots of protection. You also have blinds, stuns, chills, cripples, and 2x knockdowns on d/d. Plus you guys get 3 heals. 1 which also damages the enemy. The best part? most of an elementalist’s defense comes from passive traits, and boons! You dont have to do anything other than fight someone to get all of your defenses to work. A thief, on the other hand, must rely on active defense. The ability to dodge, or stealth and try to avoid damage all together.

I’ll admit your right about s/d thieves countering most eles. If you let the thief hit you with Larcenous strike you’re going to lose your boons and the thief is probably going to win. So what do you do? You dodge it. The thief gets a symbol shown under his/her name that shows they have Larcenous strike qued up, so when they cast it just dodge.