Guild Wars 2

Simply put, the pistol is the only weapon on thief that does not hit multiple targets, which is the preferred way to play the weapon set. A comparison of how many thief skills hit multiple targets:

Dagger main hand: 3/5
Dagger off hand: 1/2
Sword: 5/5
Shortbow: 4/5
Staff: 5/5
Pistol main: 0/5
Pistol off hand: 0/2

I understand that ranged attackers have an advantage, hence the limited utility. But should that be a reason? Let’s compare all classes’ ranged skills, on whether the ranged attack hits multiple targets:

Warrior:
Sword off hand: 0/1 (only Impale is ranged)
Longbow: 3/5 (1 for burst)
Hammer: 1/1
Axe: 2/3
Greatsword: 1/1
Rifle: 2/5 (1 for burst) piercing
Torch: 2/2

Guardian:
Sword: 0/1
Hammer: 1/1
Longbow: 5/5
Scepter: 1/3
Staff: 2/2
Focus: 1/1
Torch: 1/2

Necromancer:
Axe: 1/3
Scepter: 1/3
Dagger off hand: 2/2
Staff: 5/5
Focus: 1/2
Greatsword: 1/1 (Why is Grasping Darkness a projectile?!)
Death Shroud: 1/2

Engineer:
Pistol main hand: 2/3
Pistol off hand: 2/2
Rifle: 2/5
Shield: 1/1
Flamethrower: 5/5
Bomb kit: 5/5
Grenade kit: 5/5
Elixir gun: 2/3
Tool kit: 0/1

Mesmer:
Sword main hand: 0/1
Sword off hand: 1/2
Greatsword: 5/5
Pistol: 1/2
Scepter: 2/3
Staff: 2/4
Focus: 2/2
Torch: 1/1
Shield: 1/1

Elementalist:
Dagger main hand: 4/7
Dagger off hand: 1/1
Scepter: 6/12
Staff: 13/15

Revenant:
Sword main hand: 1/1
Hammer: 4/4
Axe: 2/2
Staff: 1/1

Ranger:
Longbow: 5/5 with trait
Axe main hand: 2/3
Axe off hand: 1/1
Dagger: 0/1
Greatsword: 0/1
Staff: 2/2
Torch: 0/1
Warhorn: 0/1
Avatar: 1/1
Shortbow: 5/5 with trait

Thief:
Shortbow: 4/5
Dagger off hand: 1/1
Pistol main hand: 0/5
Pistol off hand: 0/2

Especially as a main hand weapon, the thief pistol has a glaring hole in competition and usefulness. This makes P/P thief almost useless when fighting mobs; only good for 1v1. That’s why you only see them as duelers in wvw and pvp or a part of champ trains/world boss fights in pve. It will not work well in dungeons, fractals, or any pve event where you have to defend or escort (which feels like most of the HoT content).

I remember seeing a dev post regarding the “what if the player only wants to target 1 thing but have extra damage?” The whole point of it being a selectable trait was to give the player that choice, and my guess is the additional 10% damage was not the main reason thieves chose to equip Ricochet.

A couple of suggestions:

1. Bring back Ricochet as a trait (though I know anet has said it’s not coming back)
2. Make bullets piercing, whether through a trait or baseline
3. Make only certain skills ricochet/pierce (Sneak Attack, Unload, Repeater, and maybe Head Shot) as baseline or trait.

Ricochet, I loved that trait! I remember hitting a Ranger with a Head Shot and stunned him for like 4 seconds xD

On a serious note, I completely agree. I miss that trait as it was the only way for P/D to ever spread its poison AoE and for Unload to be useful in PvE….

I still miss Ricochet. Makes me very sad little Thief. I feel so unloved.

I bet the next Elite Specialisation has Ricochet

Just say no to P/P!

rennlc.7346:

Just say no to P/P!

Why say no to a potentially valid weapon set? Are you in favor of limiting options on thief?

I miss it as well. Before the big patch that removed Ricochet and rebalanced level scaling, P/P was the most satisfying thing ever for me in PvE.

I barely touched my thief since.

sure it sucks that we lost ricochet, but now we deal a ton more damage to single targets with our 3 3 3 spam
i still play my P/P thief every time i log in for a night of pvp dropping 20k damage on people in several seconds simply by clicking 3 twice is nothing to complain about!

Liewec.2896:

sure it sucks that we lost ricochet, but now we deal a ton more damage to single targets with our 3 3 3 spam
i still play my P/P thief every time i log in for a night of pvp dropping 20k damage on people in several seconds simply by clicking 3 twice is nothing to complain about!

I’d rather see mayhem with bouncing bullets than have an extremely hard hitting spammable skill. The dps boost to p/p was a Band-Aid fix while they attempt to actually address the issues p/p suffers. Some people still seem to think that was the fix but its only good for goofing off.

Oogabooga.3812:

rennlc.7346:

Just say no to P/P!

Why say no to a potentially valid weapon set? Are you in favor of limiting options on thief?

I’m not saying no to a potentially valid weapon set. I’m saying no to P/P. If it makes the game easier to balance (as it should) and reduces the number of significantly sub-optimal builds my potential teammates may be running, then yeah, please, limit those options. Build diversity is overrated when it comes at the expense of quality game-play. Staff can be our beginner weapon-set now.

In the past it was possible to build a thief with ricochet, firing at 1050 and with a good amount of damage specialy due to the possibility to quickly refund the initiative points in those times.

In spite of that, the double pistol thief has never been a “meta” for pvp and has never been consider as something very strong.

Some people, and it’s their choise, have enjoyed it in pve, and also time to time in wvw or pvp.

Today the double pistol set exists but is not very used because it does not allow to touch more than one target at a time, and so it does not allow the player to have a decent amount of experience/loot .

I do not understand why not to please them. It will bring some variety beside the dagger/pistol and dagger / dagger so often viewed. Here is the lack of variety.

In the first video presentations of HOT I remember ricochet was still there. I guess it has been removed simply due to a lack of place.

So, according to me the best and simplest thing to do to bring back ricochet is to automatically associate it with the use of two pistols. It will simply please its fans, bringing the situation as it was before, just reducing the distance from 1050 to 900. And good if it gives us more variety in the thieves we meet.

The balance team doesn’t know what they’re doing, frankly. SB and Pistol are both extremely lackluster.

I still marvel at how ANet killed a really fun build that was in no way OP. I quit for months when they took it out and I still haven’t really found a “fun” build to replace it.

Agreed and signed.

For me the whole profession died after ricochet was removed p/p was the reason i rolled thief as i just don’t get any enjoyment from the over used dagger thief/rogue archetype