Guild Wars 2

Ok, I usually run a setup like:

Main: S/P or S/D or D/P
Secondary: SB

And I work out quite fine. One thing that bothers me about these setups though- and the thief in general- is a lack of range. Seriously, unless I run Scorpion Wire, I always have exactly one skill and one skill only that I can use to hit people at 1200 range- SB’s Cluster Bomb (one of the many reasons I use SB).

That brings me to my next point. While Cluster Bomb, and the SB in general, are both nice, they lack power. CB, for example, has a somewhat lengthy animation that results in a big blob flying towards enemy groups. Fortunately, CB actually does some rather nice damage, which makes up for its other faults. The other problem with CB is that it’s nowhere near as easy to use again and again, unlike other thief skills (due to the initiative system).

Now, I’ve wanted to make a build like this for a long time… And while I only just started playing it today (to satisfying results)… It seems like a heck lot of fun, and it does a lot of damage. Here it is.

Let’s just name it “Gunslinger (No invisibility)”, for its fairly unique P/P set, as well as its lack of invisibility (I’ll get more to that later).

0/10/0/30/30

10 in CS: Basically, to get Pistol Mastery (deal 10% extra damage with pistols). A nice, cheap trait that will allow your unloads to be crushing.

30 in Acro:
- PoI: general damage improvement, which boosts both your condition damage and your power. Technically, you could replace it with vigor for tons of dodges, but I feel like this is a bit more offensive in nature, which I overall prefer. I also think it has more utility and is able to be accessed more easily than the vigor trait.
-Quick Recovery: This one might not be necessary… But, like the title says: “in the works”, and, after all, I had about half an hour today to slap this build together today. I borrowed a lot from my standard build, which also runs 30 Acro.
Anyhow, I really like initiative regeneration. However I can get, whenever I can get it. Quick Recovery, to me, is a way of saying “hey, tons of free initiative over time, and you don’t have to worry about me- I’ll just sit behind the scenes and do all of the work for you!”. With an active profession like the thief, you want to be thinking about as few things as possible.
Outside of that, most of my builds are basically initiative-dependent; initiative is their lifeblood and, without it, they die. Thus, Quick Recovery.
-Assassin’s Reward: just a very neat healing skill. In the past, it’s gotten me out of trouble numerous times. It usually really shines when you’re retreating from battle with very low health (< 3K) left. This is another benefit of using SB; I can use Infiltrator’s Arrow as an emergency button, and, with AR, I get a small but significant heal every time I use it, meaning that I can be very hard to catch, even with low health, due to health regeneration and shadowsteps.

30 Tricks
-Uncatchable: pretty self-explanatory; also nice since this build is a bit of a hybrid between crits and conditions.
-Trickster: good for RFI, which is a free dodge, stunbreaker, and init gainer all at once. Also good for Haste.
-Hastened Replenishment: more initiative regeneration! You get the idea.

Try out the build yourselves, tell me how you like it, and tell me how I can change it for the better too. c: thanks all.

One last thing: didn’t try these out, but here are two possible stealthing versions of the build.

More stealthing:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAqaVlUmiP3eS6E+JFxWBgy9ooGtp+H+a/hrC

More dodging:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAqaVlUmiP3eS6E+JFxWBgypooG1/wX7ZcVtC
—————————————————-
UPDATE 4/3
Here’s another build I made, it’s a bit more defensive. If you’re planning on running full zerker, this might be the thing for you.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAqaVlUmaPHfS6E+5EBPjiaU/Dft7xVtqWB;TEAg0A

How do you kill anyone?

Daecollo.9578:

How do you kill anyone?

/sigh

Lol, ok, to be fair, I had very little time to write this, so I might not have explained everything. Like how, for example, a single Unload deals 4.5K (or 3.6-ish K if they manage to evade some of the shots), which, personally, I think is pretty neat given an already great auto attack, the free ranged interrupt, and a blind field if anyone decides to get too close to you (which also happens to work great for combo finishers with the pistol).

So, the idea is to use a combination between both condition damage and regular DPS in order to down your opponent. The ways that you manage to pull this off vary based on which build you use. If you used the build that I wrote about, you’ll be dodging a heck of a lot. You’ll use Withdraw/RFI when your enemy gets close to you, and then hit an unload as a counterattack. Here’s the other thing; when you are at range, there are very few things you need to worry about as compared to when you’re in close combat. For example:

- Actually fighting the enemy: Seriously, why bother to break into an intense battle and risk getting yourself killed by going close-combat when you can just stand on the sidelines and laugh your kitten off while bleeding and Unloading enemies to death?
- Able to evade fighting multiple enemies: with range, you have much more versatility as to what you can do, and you’ll be hit less often (because you can’t get hit with both melee and ranged attacks if you’re at a range from your opponent/s). Thus, you’re able to invest more trait points/in gear that will give you an offensive advantage.

And there’s a lot more really great stuff about the build. For example, if I played a pure condition thief, I don’t think that I’d get within 100 feet of an elixir engineer. Their condition removal (assuming they run the X trait in Alchemy) gives them virtually unlimited condition removal. I’d do virtually no damage to them. Plus, if I did manage to get, say, four conditions on them, they could just drop Elixir C and completely screw me over at that point. The same goes for condition necros, (some) guardians, and so forth.

On the other hand, pure DPS- which has been the camp I’ve been a part of from the very beginning- is, across the board, a very aggressive and very successful style of play. However, it comes at the cost of generally involving melee attacks, which means less range, less versatility, and less defense.

So that’s where P/P comes in. It gives you the best of both worlds. With an autoattack that automatically starts stacking bleeds on your enemy (and a Stealth attack that stacks 5 bleeds on your opponent before they know it), as well as plenty of caltrops, you’re getting a sweet amount of Condition Damage via bleeds, although not as much as if you had run a pure CD build. On the other hand, Unload deals a kittenload of DPS on your opponent very rapidly; it’s hard to evade completely (due to the number of shots) and, honestly, is just a sick-looking attack to add to your arsenal if you really want to look like a gunslinger. that being said, it doesn’t deal quite as much damage as a melee build might.

So, it doesn’t deal the highest condition damage, nor the highest pure DPS. But combined together, both condition damage and DPS make a formidable combination. On top of all of that, you’re going to be the purest ranged thief build that there is (IMO), so you’re going to have more defensive capacity as well as flexibility with your maneuvers.

So far, with the build I slammed together and wrote about, I wasn’t OP, but I wasn’t weak either. I got my fair share of kills. I think that, once I find a good way to combine both stealth and acrobatics, as well as the proper gear, then I’m going to start racking up the kills very quickly.

And that, Daecollo, is how you kill people with this build. c:

Kibbles.9813:

P/P has exactly one high-damage skill, which is Unload, which also happens to be one of the less reliable skills in the Thief weapon arsenal. If it doesn’t get Obstructed by a bump in the terrain or something walking in front of your target, the enemy can avoid the entire channel duration in a single dodge or via you turning slightly while firing, leaving you out of 5 Initiative and no damage done. You get no non-Utility stealth to break from a surprise engagement, or any reliable way to utilize Sneak Attack for Bleed stacks. You’d be sacrificing huge melee damage potential for 900 range that will get you killed instantly the second more than one opponent shows up.

The set is also incredibly Power- and Precision-reliant to deal damage even anywhere close to the other alternatives, which leaves you with little stat room for major amounts of Toughness or Vitality to ensure surviving WvW engagements without Initiative-based Stealth. P/P works great in PvE, but as soon as you get reactive players involved it completely falls apart in comparison to the other set options available.

Ok, first of all, Heartseeker and the like falls under the exact same problem. At least with P/P, you have additional range. If you want to get within range<= 300 of your enemy, go right ahead. Then both HS and P/P will have the exact same problem with obstructions. At least P/P gives you a bit of range. It also allows you to be more well-defended, by staying away from melee enemies.

The last I checked, dodges don’t last 1 3/4 seconds, which is, apparently, the amount of time that Unload’s channeled duration lasts. On top of that, even if dodges were 1 3/4 seconds, your enemy would need perfect timing; they could still find themselves being hit four times for decent DPS, and, because they spent time evading, they can’t do anything to counterattack. They just have to deal with it. Also; HS/C&D/Steal/(insert other popular attack/button push here) have the exact same problem, except that they only have one attack rather than 8? That’s what I thought.

There’s a reason I run high initiative regeneration, but it almost always isn’t because I feel that I’m going to be missing my targets a lot. Now, a far more pitiful waste of initiative is LDB, which is easily evadable in its entirety, and has a poor range.

With the current listed build, I get out of surprise attacks by (assuming no walls behind me) using RFI and then Withdraw in the direction I’m trying to go. Swap to SB, IA the kitten out of there. However, I am trying to fit stealth into the build (mostly by swapping out utility skills). The two builds I listed at the bottom of my post state this, please check them out.

Getting killed instantly? Uh… I don’t think so. How easy is it for you to line enemies up when you’re running D/P or S/D / S/P? Or any melee set? How easy is it for you to deal DPS until your opponent arrives, then Shadowstep away and continue DPS’ing, making your opponent run after you? This is one of the major premises of the P/D build. By itself, it doesn’t do much damage (certainly less than this build), but, paired with the ability to Shadowstep away like nobody’s business, it becomes an extremely effective set.

This set is not “incredibly power and precision reliant”, please read my comments about condition damage, the amount of damage a single unload does, and then check out the two builds I listed at the bottom of my post that utilize both Acro and SA. Also, given that it seems like the overwhelming majority of the thief population runs at least 20 Crits/DA (which I never, ever run, unless I’m trying to figure out a way to make a Signet build work- hint, it doesn’t), I wouldn’t say that this build is exactly “power and precision reliant”. I seriously suggest that you try out this build before you talk about it. Now, granted; given the range, mobility, and evades, I do choose to run good power and crits to balance things out. However, that’s because I already have good survivability with this build (and, I suspect, better survivability with my SA builds). So I fail to see your reasoning here. If I told you that for my current main build I run a D/P melee thief with pretty much full zerker gear, your response might be different than if I told you that I run full zerker gear to balance out the fact that I also have the traits 0/0/20/30/20. The same applies here.

No, your last part is just flat-out wrong. You assume that when battling, the instant you unload on somebody, they’re going to come right at you. That’s a very strictly melee-type way of thinking. If you get right up in somebody’s face, yes, they’re going to try to punish you for it. However, amid the chaos of PvP or WvW, a single Unload is surprisingly subtle. If a person’s battling with a melee character while you’re stacking DPS in the background, the person is most likely to focus on dealing with the melee character first. It’s not a matter of reaction, it’s a matter of convenience. Then, even without the assistance of allies, P/ kitten till an extremely viable set. I cannot tell you how many times I’ve thrown down Black Powder on melee enemies and completely chopped them up while they were unable to do anything because of my blinds. I cannot begin to describe how much damage the combined Unloads and bleeds do for you. I cannot stress enough that your ranged interrupt gives you extremely nice options. I think you completely underestimate this weapon set, which, given the melee-oriented “crits+stealth+backstab” mindset of the thief community, I can understand. I draw inspiration from other builds created by other people, but all of the builds that I ultimately use, while they might not be original to me, I created them individually without simply taking a current build and adjusting it by changing precision by, say, 1% in exchange for toughness. So, what I’m asking you is- try the set out, then critique it.

Kibbles.9813:

You could adjust by swapping more Trait points into Critical Strikes and Deadly Arts, turning it into a viable ranged glass cannon for group support, but even then you’re left with a weapon set that just doesn’t hold up to the rest as well as it should. P/P works wonderfully in PvE, but as soon as you get reactive players involved it completely falls apart in comparison to the other set options available.

Uhhh…

The set is also incredibly Power- and Precision-reliant to deal damage even anywhere close to the other alternatives, which leaves you with little stat room for major amounts of Toughness or Vitality to ensure surviving WvW engagements without Initiative-based Stealth.

close to the other alternatives, which leaves you with little stat room for major amounts of Toughness or Vitality to ensure surviving WvW engagements

which leaves you with little stat room for major amounts of Toughness or Vitality

P/P Thief isn’t as bad as everyone thinks it is.

I use a GC p/p with limited stealth

Thieves Guild, Shadowstep in, active signet, haste, spam unload, shadow return.

That usually puts people down before they know what hit them exception being bunker eles and guardians.

It may not have great survivability, but if you are aware and have good timing pretty easy to use definitely really cool aesthetically.

I would never really get much done with this build though the way I play, but it seems well thought out.

One problem: What about your other weapon set?

Main: S/P or S/D or D/P

They don’t seem to benefit from this build at all. :/

Sir Vincent III.1286:

One problem: What about your other weapon set?

Main: S/P or S/D or D/P

They don’t seem to benefit from this build at all. :/

Oh, sorry, I think you might have misunderstood Sword- and Dagger- based builds are usually my specialty, that’s what I was referring to. The build here runs P/P and SB.

Arganthium.5638:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

One problem: What about your other weapon set?

Main: S/P or S/D or D/P

They don’t seem to benefit from this build at all. :/

Oh, sorry, I think you might have misunderstood Sword- and Dagger- based builds are usually my specialty, that’s what I was referring to. The build here runs P/P and SB.

Got it. I thought you’re replacing your SB with P/P.

Interesting build, I might try it out. Although, there’s too much survivability IMO so the DPS seems to suffer a lot.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Arganthium.5638:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

One problem: What about your other weapon set?

Main: S/P or S/D or D/P

They don’t seem to benefit from this build at all. :/

Oh, sorry, I think you might have misunderstood Sword- and Dagger- based builds are usually my specialty, that’s what I was referring to. The build here runs P/P and SB.

Got it. I thought you’re replacing your SB with P/P.

Interesting build, I might try it out. Although, there’s too much survivability IMO so the DPS seems to suffer a lot.

No, P/P is the main set, SB is the backup/utility.

It depends on how you spec. As I mentioned in some of my posts, I run a 0/0/20/30/20 build usually, but I end up dealing tons of damage simply because I run zerker gear.

Arganthium.5638:

Like how, for example, a single Unload deals 4.5K (or 3.6-ish K if they manage to evade some of the shots), which, personally, I think is pretty neat given an already great auto attack, the free ranged interrupt, and a blind field if anyone decides to get too close to you (which also happens to work great for combo finishers with the pistol).

I’m sorry but after reading this part I was forced to skip your 4 consecutive posts.

First: You called Vital Shot a great auto-attack, when it’s known it’s weakened by the animation bug and is much slower than what it should be. It also synergizes poorly with non Condition specs so in a P/P set you always try to keep using Unload and avoid auto-attacking too much. Vital Shot is everything but a great auto-attack.

Second: Those damage number for unload can be called “decent” or “nice” but nothing else. The set is all about spamming the attack and the attack isn’t even THAT great. Just decent and left you without any utility in your weapon set.

Last: Black Powder in P/P is poor. As you don’t have any stealth on your weapons, you survivie by kiting, dodging, and running as fast as you can. No matter how much you spec into defensive atributes, the Thief needs either to stealth or to dodge and move all the time and as a Ranged set you get no benefit at all for getting close. BP has good synergies with our melee sets as it can cover your assault and get combo leaps with D/P, but it’s crap on P/P. And it’s not great for combo finishers as you waste most of your initiative with it and the auto-attack isn’t reliable as a finisher (20% chance).

You can play P/P, you can have some success doing it, I’ve tried many times and yes you can have success with it, but at the end you bring much less to the table than with other sets and at the end it’s all about maximizing Unload with some situational Headshot when they try to heal.

The set needs a revision, I would love to play it but right now it’s very boring and go “decent” when other sets can offer you “competitive” is not enough to convince me despite how much I love the aesthetics.

Body Shot is the skill that needs a change the most to bring diversity to the whole set. Something I proposed before is making it a cone*5 hit (1 vuln per hit) skill (Axe rangers get a cone*5 with bleeds on a 6 seconds recharge so 3 initiative is justified) and that having 4 or 5 impacts (which means being in melee range) would do better damage/initiative than Unload, not more than Unload perse, but more per initiative spent, and being fired faster and benefiting from the same traits as it’s multi-hit, it would be a good alternative to take risks and get close to maximize your damage, while also making Black Powder usable on the set to cover you while using that strategy, then the set becomes far less predictable as you can either jump close or kite and run around while unloading.

Arganthium.5638:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Arganthium.5638:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

One problem: What about your other weapon set?

Main: S/P or S/D or D/P

They don’t seem to benefit from this build at all. :/

Oh, sorry, I think you might have misunderstood Sword- and Dagger- based builds are usually my specialty, that’s what I was referring to. The build here runs P/P and SB.

Got it. I thought you’re replacing your SB with P/P.

Interesting build, I might try it out. Although, there’s too much survivability IMO so the DPS seems to suffer a lot.

No, P/P is the main set, SB is the backup/utility.

It depends on how you spec. As I mentioned in some of my posts, I run a 0/0/20/30/20 build usually, but I end up dealing tons of damage simply because I run zerker gear.

At the first half of target’s HP, this build works well. But at the second half (<50% HP), it struggles big time. It just cannot finish what it started.

Most of passive defensive mechanisms triggers at <50% and the lack of extra oomph from Executioners trait makes it suffer and having SB as your 2ndary weapon set doesn’t help the situation.

Using this build makes me itchy and left me wondering where’s my Hearthseeker and +20% dmg from Executioner?

With 25/30/0/0/15 on a Berserker set, I can Unload for a minimum of 4.5k upto 7k (due to high crit chance), normalizing around 5.8k – 6.3k first half and around 6k-7k at the second half.

The low crit chance on your build is not taking advantage of the Crit Dmg from ’zerker set.

I admire the survivability, but I am doubtful about “dealing tons of damage simply because I run zerker gear” where the word “tons” is highly exaggerated. :/