Guild Wars 2

A rework of Steal is what I feel would be the most important and impactful change they can make for the Thief class at this point.

If Steal itself is potent and genuinely useful at its base level, it would decrease the dependance of Thieves on certain weaponsets for survivability (Sword) and mobility (Shortbow), and open up so many build choices for Thieves due to the fact that it is available for every Thief build to make use of, regardless of weaponsets, stats, or traits.

Iterating on my earlier suggestions, my ideal Steal mechanic would do the following:
1) Have a 30 second base cooldown shared between F1 and F2 (can only use one or the other)
2) F1 – Targeted Shadowstep. Instant, but does not break stuns. Upon success, steal 2 items, one offensive in F3, one defensive in F4. For 10 seconds after using F1, this will be available as a Shadow Return that is also instant but does not break stuns.
3) F2 – Ground targeted Shadowstep. Instant, but does not break stuns. Shares a cooldown with F1. Also available as a Shadow Return for 10 seconds after use. Randomly selects an enemy in the AoE and populates F3 and F4 accordingly. Does not populate F3 and F4 if no enemies are in the AoE.
4) F3 & F4 – Use offensive or defensive item, respectively. Only one of the two can be used per Steal. Overridden by another set of items if F1 or F2 is used successfully on a target

This new Steal would accomplish the following:
1. Give all Thief builds at least 1 way to counter CC through reaction and preparation, instead of through the passive mitigation that all other classes have access to, bringing all builds a step closer to pre-nerf S/x in terms of viability
2. Give all Thief builds a mobility boost in F2, so that Shortbow becomes less of a requirement for roaming (Even with shortbow, many warrior builds have clearly superior sustained mobility)
3. Make it easier for ANet to balance the Shadow Return mechanics since Steal is cooldown based
4. Make Steal inherently useful as more than just a gap closer and situational utility tool without traiting for it, and give it better situational utility through the choice between an offensive and defensive ability
5. Add a survivability aspect to the Trickery line so that it could be a more viable alternative to Acrobatics and Shadow Arts, and possibly making it possible to build more interesting traits around the new Steal to address some of Thief’s weaker areas (see some of my suggestions below)

Possible traited effects for the new Steal below. These are just some ideas I’ve thought of that could address some of the problems Thieves have with low sustain, condi removal, and group utility. It should go without saying that some of them could be problematic when paired with eachother or existing traits, and therefore should be tested and cherry picked accordingly and is not meant to be blindly implemented in bulk.

1) Lower bound of 20s cooldown shared between F1 and F2 (scales with Trickery line)
2) Shadow Returns on F1 and F2 break stuns and AoE heals (Grandmaster Acro, Hard to Catch) – Remove rng and detrimental element from HtC, add more sustain options to Acro
3) Shadow Returns on F1 and F2 remove 3 conditions (Master Acro, new) – Condi removal option for Acro
4) F1 transfers 3 conditions and stuns target, F2 AoE boon rip and daze (Grandmaster Trickery, Sleight of Hand) – Condi removal/application option for Trickery, group utility in AoE boon rip + interrupt
5) F1 leeches from target (2k base dmg + heal), F2 lowered AoE leech (800 base dmg + heal per target) + blast finisher (Adept DA, Mug) – AoE dmg component, situationally higher sustain, blast for utility
6) F1 immobilizes and bleeds target, F2 AoE chills + torment (Master DA, new, moves Improvization to Trickery) – Control + condi dmg option
7) F1 Stealths self, F2 AoE smoke field (Master SA, Hidden Thief) – Group utility through AoE blind field, AoE stealth option when combined with the new Mug
8) Use of F3 does not preclude use of F4 and vice versa, Stealing recharges a random subset of utilities (Master Trickery, Improvization, moved from DA) – Gives Improvisation a useful non-rng component
9) F3 grants might, F4 heals (Adept Trickery, new) – Sustain and hybrid damage boost option in Trickery

Thoughts?

i like it . . . steal mechanic is not complex enough, actually is the most boring class utily in the game.

+10

That’s too much calculations for such a simply skill. Nothing’s wrong with the current steal, Anet just need to improve the quality of item we’ve stolen.

IMO, that change will annoy the heck out of me since it messes with my play style.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

That’s too much calculations for such a simply skill. Nothing’s wrong with the current steal, Anet just need to improve the quality of item we’ve stolen.

yes to the first part no to the last part
the item stolen is so good when using them in the right time against the right target
Bone Crack – stun pls yes
Consume Plasma – gain all boon – hell yea
Ice Shard Stab – 2-3k dmg and chill which slower cd and movement – omg
Mace Head Crack – daze mmm…yummy
Skull Fear – just op
Throw Gunk – random condition and ethereal combo field which can do confusion
Whirling Axe – just love it with 6-8k dmg while reflect
Blinding Tuft – life saver and life taker

i can see why only F1 is bit boring while other have f1-f4 abilities so if we want f2-f4 we need to KIS – keep it simple

f2 – Last Refuge – remove from trait and make it actively useable
f3 – Hard to Catch – remove from trait and make it actively useable
f4- Instinctual Response – remove from tait and make it actively useable

those trait are hardly useful or valuable as they tend to mess up our timing while popup in the wrong time
and instead of the traits above we can get more group sharing boons or venoms trait or p/p trait etc

I kind of like this idea. While I don’t have a problem with the current steal mechanic, I must admit it is a bit one dimensional. I wouldn’t even consider it a class mechanic, its more of an extra shadowstep for me.

So +1 to this. I would love to see more depth added to steal.

Also could we have the steal shadowstep work in the same was as infiltrator signet whereby it still works even though the enemy is out of range.

too complex to implement tbh

many ppl might not like it, people make QQ threads about eye color change…. imagine how much QQ there will be if 1 spell gets such huge revamp?

that is the reason i think my suggestion is good as it has already been given to us by trait just almost never been chosen due to its randomness which really dont have a place in thief fight mechanism

Personally I think the suggestion someone put out to make venoms for f2-4 would be better. Nearly all the F2 steals are good too, the only change I would make would be to the mace steal from Guards, IMO the daze should be shorter but also unblockable.

messiah.1908:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

That’s too much calculations for such a simply skill. Nothing’s wrong with the current steal, Anet just need to improve the quality of item we’ve stolen.

yes to the first part no to the last part
the item stolen is so good when using them in the right time against the right target
Bone Crack – stun pls yes
Consume Plasma – gain all boon – hell yea
Ice Shard Stab – 2-3k dmg and chill which slower cd and movement – omg
Mace Head Crack – daze mmm…yummy
Skull Fear – just op
Throw Gunk – random condition and ethereal combo field which can do confusion
Whirling Axe – just love it with 6-8k dmg while reflect
Blinding Tuft – life saver and life taker

i can see why only F1 is bit boring while other have f1-f4 abilities so if we want f2-f4 we need to KIS – keep it simple

f2 – Last Refuge – remove from trait and make it actively useable
f3 – Hard to Catch – remove from trait and make it actively useable
f4- Instinctual Response – remove from tait and make it actively useable

those trait are hardly useful or valuable as they tend to mess up our timing while popup in the wrong time
and instead of the traits above we can get more group sharing boons or venoms trait or p/p trait etc

really good ideas i like them

NO!

Leave steal alone!

Honestly leave it alone!

Nothing to see here, move along folks!

messiah.1908:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

That’s too much calculations for such a simply skill. Nothing’s wrong with the current steal, Anet just need to improve the quality of item we’ve stolen.

yes to the first part no to the last part
the item stolen is so good when using them in the right time against the right target
Bone Crack – stun pls yes
Consume Plasma – gain all boon – hell yea
Ice Shard Stab – 2-3k dmg and chill which slower cd and movement – omg
Mace Head Crack – daze mmm…yummy
Skull Fear – just op
Throw Gunk – random condition and ethereal combo field which can do confusion
Whirling Axe – just love it with 6-8k dmg while reflect
Blinding Tuft – life saver and life taker

Whirling Axe is not always a good steal to use against a Warrior. :/

This is why it needs improvements, more like putting all their main hand or off hand weapon skills in a global cooldown, for example, implying I stole their weapon. Then use the skill associated with that weapon.

i can see why only F1 is bit boring while other have f1-f4 abilities so if we want f2-f4 we need to KIS – keep it simple

f2 – Last Refuge – remove from trait and make it actively useable
f3 – Hard to Catch – remove from trait and make it actively useable
f4- Instinctual Response – remove from tait and make it actively useable

those trait are hardly useful or valuable as they tend to mess up our timing while popup in the wrong time
and instead of the traits above we can get more group sharing boons or venoms trait or p/p trait etc

Just delete those and make a new ones. No reason to keep those around.

again you have to use your steal ability at the right time against right enemy
against hammer warrior whirling axe probably wont be good but against longbow warrior its awesome

take 30 points in Trickery and your steal will daze

messiah.1908:

again you have to use your steal ability at the right time against right enemy
against hammer warrior whirling axe probably wont be good but against longbow warrior its awesome

take 30 points in Trickery and your steal will daze

Doesn’t solve the main issue that the stolen items are mostly crap.

There should only be 3 types of things that a Thief would want to steal:
1) Damage boost
2) Defense boost
3) Healing boost

All others are crap. Keep in mind that this is our Profession specific skill, the items should be comparable to Warrior’s Burst skill at least.

Most of the items that can be stolen, from players at least, are not crap, but usually too narrowly situational. Using a defensive item like healing seed results in reduced dps when you have the advantage and want to keep up damage and pressure, while using an offensive item like axe spin tends to be dangerous when you’re in a bad spot.

Stealing both an Offensive (F3) and Defensive (F4) item with every Steal would generally make every use of Steal result in something that can be of use to the Thief whether the situation calls for offensive or defensive plays. And even in the case that neither of these items are worth using, you’re not forced to waste time burning it as you do in the status quo, because your F1 and F2 will be unobstructed when Steal is off cooldown.

It’s not more powerful than the existing Steal since you can still only use one item per Steal, but it is definitely more flexible. And flexibility is what the current Steal mechanic sorely lacks.

To all those who think Steal is fine as is:

Consider Warrior Burst skills, Ele’s Attunment Swap, Necro’s Death Shroud, Engy Toolkits, Ranger Pet, Guardian Virtues, Mesmer Shatters.

The sheer effectiveness of these mechanics can be debated, but every one of these mechanics are class-defining, and open up far more interesting gameplay options than offered by a single gap closer and a single enemy dependent item every 35 seconds from Steal.

It’d suck to relearn the class but it’d make thief more viable and increase the skill ceiling even further. So I’m for it with whatever balancing necessary to make it fair. Anet, instead of the boring and down right depressing changes you’ve given thief for over a year (aside from the original FS/LS change), why don’t you work to give us stuff like this?

I agree that Steal is lame – in fact, it’s the worst class mechanic in the entire game, 2nd being Pets.

But I don’t like your alternative idea at all. Far too complex. And for what?

I’d rather see Steal become an interrupt – perhaps stealing the very skill that you use it to interrupt?

Had another thought yesterday, when I was swimming in Surmia’s bay(took em long enogh to catch me) and couldn’t activate my steal, because my thief decided a mace was unworthy of being used underwater, while she still insisted on holding onto that mace and never letting go.

Why not, for starters:
F1 – Steal
F2 – Use stolen item

Maybe even make the thief able to hold up to 3 stolen items. Just making steal usable, while you have a stolen skill, would already make the skill so much more intuitive. You could actually hold onto stuff like a skull without having to perform a friggin long animation, when you decide, not to use it at the start of the next battle, just to get that steal off.

naphack.9346:

Maybe even make the thief able to hold up to 3 stolen items. Just making steal usable, while you have a stolen skill, would already make the skill so much more intuitive.

Really?

Consume Plasma + Throw Gunk + Whirling Axe

Now picture yourself being on the receiving end — still “intuitive?”

The Thief have not even used their initiative and you’re already at 50% health with a healthy stack of Confusion.