Guild Wars 2

i never seen one my autos hit for 2.5k

yes. Power rangers do more damage than thieves. By far.

The trade off is mobility. Rangers have virtually no disengage, so they drop real fast in a 2v1.

thief can easily get away in 2v1 or 3v1 or even 4v1.

that is the trade off.

Michael.9517:

yes. Rangers have virtually no disengage, so they drop real fast in a 2v1.

thief can easily get away in 2v1 or 3v1 or even 4v1.

that is the trade off.

This is all true. I don’t believe that the statement that rangers outdamage a thief BY FAR is true. Do they do more damage at 1500-800 range? Probably, however, rangers have difficulties if you have LOS available which effectively puts their dps to 0. As a thief you can easily out dps a ranger in melee. Along with the ability to neutralize their dps with blinds.

And if you’re in wvw and not hitting for 3k with autos I’d add some more power. Dagger autos crit for some absurd values (and with newly added cleave!) and technically backstab is an auto attack too. Sword crits can easily reach above 3k as well.

Helly.2597:

Michael.9517:

yes. Rangers have virtually no disengage, so they drop real fast in a 2v1.

thief can easily get away in 2v1 or 3v1 or even 4v1.

that is the trade off.

This is all true. I don’t believe that the statement that rangers outdamage a thief BY FAR is true. Do they do more damage at 1500-800 range? Probably, however, rangers have difficulties if you have LOS available which effectively puts their dps to 0. As a thief you can easily out dps a ranger in melee. Along with the ability to neutralize their dps with blinds.

And if you’re in wvw and not hitting for 3k with autos I’d add some more power. Dagger autos crit for some absurd values (and with newly added cleave!) and technically backstab is an auto attack too. Sword crits can easily reach above 3k as well.

what build hits 3k autos? i never seen that

I don’t know what I expected to find in this thread, I just saw Power Rangers. I ehm… I’m out.

2.5k on aa from a ranger doesn’t bother me, when I get hit by those numbers like on the screenshot, lol, 2-3 autos and I am done. Can’t repost that screenie, not at home.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/6k-Heartseeker-seriously/first#post4635493

Rangers do have disengage. Stealth from lb3 and then gs3… Usually gets you some good distance but not as good as thief.

Yes they do more damage with a lot less effort…

almost full glass theif running s/d can easily crit for over 4k with the last hit of the AA chain. they might do more sustained damage than we can but they have no where near the burst, especially because theyre hardest hitting attacks (RF and Maul) are both quite telegraphed and easily dodged

Michael.9517:

yes. Power rangers do more damage than thieves. By far.

The trade off is mobility. Rangers have virtually no disengage, so they drop real fast in a 2v1.

thief can easily get away in 2v1 or 3v1 or even 4v1.

that is the trade off.

Since when are Swoop or Hornet Sting/Monarch leap, Hunters shot, point blank shot, lightning reflexes and entangle not considered disengages? Not as many as a thief obviously, but “virtually none” doesn’t seem to fit.

JaeleCt.3967:

almost full glass theif running s/d can easily crit for over 4k with the last hit of the AA chain. they might do more sustained damage than we can but they have no where near the burst, especially because theyre hardest hitting attacks (RF and Maul) are both quite telegraphed and easily dodged

There’s more than 1 thing incorrect about this statement, but let’s focus on the primary one.

Claiming that “RF and Maul” are both quite telegraphed and easily dodged while insinuating that Crippling strike isn’t is hilarious – it’s the last swing of a slow, flashy AA chain where the last strike is the only one worth dodging – you can see CS coming a mile away because slash and slice have to hit first.

yesterday a few rangers were tower hugging sw tower in the bls and one of them was able to do a 10k rapid fire on my thief. My armor is somewhere at 2300 and i was amazed to see what its like to take a full hit.

Assuming you’re talking about your typical RtW ranger:

In a practical scenario, you’ll be seeing more overall damage from a ranger, but the thief will help much more in point capture due to mobility and overall role. The big reason is that rangers can often stand back and unload without pause for dodges in team fights, due to range. In closer skirmishes, the difference in damage is much less and is arguably lower than thief.

Rangers can disengage from fights easily enough and burst just as well when played right, but the big reason you want a thief is for mobility and stability stripping. This is why Rangers don’t simply beat out thieves for overall usefulness on a team.

Yes, because Zordon is a boss and those mechs are the shiiiii- wait, a different kind of Power Ranger?kitten

I’ve done some ridiculous damage on my Thief, but if you’re just spamming Auto-attacks you’re not playing it right.

there are quite few classes that do more dmg than thieves but thieves are the best roamers in pvp due to mobility, stealth not to mention valuable stab steal daze that can interrupt stab stomps/rezzes

Helly.2597:

Michael.9517:

yes. Rangers have virtually no disengage, so they drop real fast in a 2v1.

thief can easily get away in 2v1 or 3v1 or even 4v1.

that is the trade off.

This is all true. I don’t believe that the statement that rangers outdamage a thief BY FAR is true. Do they do more damage at 1500-800 range? Probably, however, rangers have difficulties if you have LOS available which effectively puts their dps to 0. As a thief you can easily out dps a ranger in melee. Along with the ability to neutralize their dps with blinds.

And if you’re in wvw and not hitting for 3k with autos I’d add some more power. Dagger autos crit for some absurd values (and with newly added cleave!) and technically backstab is an auto attack too. Sword crits can easily reach above 3k as well.

Interesting… You’re, for some odd reason, including LoS as an issue but not that the target can move in melee range (out of range), the target can dodge in both cases (and again move out of melee range), the target might have a dash of some sort… and so on. Only looking at one thing (LoS) for some reason…

Zero Day.2594:

Interesting… You’re, for some odd reason, including LoS as an issue but not that the target can move in melee range (out of range), the target can dodge in both cases (and again move out of melee range), the target might have a dash of some sort… and so on. Only looking at one thing (LoS) for some reason…

I’ll ignore the condescending nature of your post and address why I didn’t and don’t believe the issues you brought up are even close to the issue of LOS for rangers.

Thieves have the best ability to stick to a target in melee range, bar none. S/D thieves have sword 2 (which against rangers can even be used to exploit LOS at the same time), D/P thieves have SS (an amazing ability especially since the blind goes through blocks so the GS ranger knockback will miss despite blocking), and all meta thief builds have steal on a 21s cd and infiltrators signet, and most of the builds also have shadowstep.

This gives most thieves have a minimum of 3 abilities to close the gap, 1 of which is spammable (sword 2 or d/p 3) and most will actually have that forth ability in the shadowstep. Assuming you manage your initiative decently well, you shouldn’t have issues sticking to a target in melee range.

And honestly the dodges comment shouldn’t even need to be addressed. Every class has dodges, heck I ignored a thief being able to dodge behind LOS while a ranger pewpews at him in my original post, my mistake.

Thieves don’t have an access to perma slows and perma swiftness, so no, Thieves don’t stick to targets all that well. It’s hard to apply pressure to a target that is simply running away with Swiftness, even HS will often miss a moving target.
Only the ranged classes have insane CC and escapes. Part of why meta is so bad.

Depends heavily on the format, the builds involved, and the scenario.

In PvE/WvW, thieves out-damage longbow rangers, but not sword rangers. In PvP, with the current meta and thief status from repeated nerfs to power MH dagger, ranger out-damages thief, considering most thief builds cannot afford to run as offensive as they pretty much need to.

YuiRS.8129:

Thieves don’t have an access to perma slows and perma swiftness, so no, Thieves don’t stick to targets all that well. It’s hard to apply pressure to a target that is simply running away with Swiftness, even HS will often miss a moving target.
Only the ranged classes have insane CC and escapes. Part of why meta is so bad.

Actually, that’s only true of dagger mainhand builds. An S/D thief running 2/0/2/4/6 with trickery V has perma swiftness ooc without making any build sacrifices whatsoever, add hard to catch, signet of agility or pack runes and you get even more. Sure, you have to dodge around like a lunatic, but with this meta you pretty much have to do that anyways. That with shadowstep, cripple on sword auto, sword 2 and steal is more than enough to stick on a target.

On topic, ranger can put out some nasty damage but so can thief. They get to be a bit more tanky and have range, but they have to split damage with the pet to be most effective and have less disengage. We get to be kings of the disengage, but we go down much easier if caught out. Ranger may do more damage atm when played perfectly, but a mobile thief is probably more useful in the end, at least from a PvP/WvW perspective.

Jugglemonkey.8741:

YuiRS.8129:

Thieves don’t have an access to perma slows and perma swiftness, so no, Thieves don’t stick to targets all that well. It’s hard to apply pressure to a target that is simply running away with Swiftness, even HS will often miss a moving target.
Only the ranged classes have insane CC and escapes. Part of why meta is so bad.

Actually, that’s only true of dagger mainhand builds. An S/D thief running 2/0/2/4/6 with trickery V has perma swiftness ooc without making any build sacrifices whatsoever, add hard to catch, signet of agility or pack runes and you get even more. Sure, you have to dodge around like a lunatic, but with this meta you pretty much have to do that anyways. That with shadowstep, cripple on sword auto, sword 2 and steal is more than enough to stick on a target.

On topic, ranger can put out some nasty damage but so can thief. They get to be a bit more tanky and have range, but they have to split damage with the pet to be most effective and have less disengage. We get to be kings of the disengage, but we go down much easier if caught out. Ranger may do more damage atm when played perfectly, but a mobile thief is probably more useful in the end, at least from a PvP/WvW perspective.

Dropping Critical Strikes is a pretty huge sacrifice. I never liked Thief without Executioner slotted, but I guess that’s just me.

YuiRS.8129:

Thieves don’t have an access to perma slows and perma swiftness, so no, Thieves don’t stick to targets all that well. It’s hard to apply pressure to a target that is simply running away with Swiftness, even HS will often miss a moving target.
Only the ranged classes have insane CC and escapes. Part of why meta is so bad.

I disagree, and I’m unsure what build you’re playing if this happens. If you truly wanted to you could spam dancing dagger on an opponent, sword auto gives a cripple as well, an immob on sword 2, shadowshot which puts you directly onto your target from 900 range, immob on sb stealth attack, and cripple on sb 3 (very short). Unless the opponent is a Nike Warrior, I’ve never had an issue keeping up with a fleeing opponent.

And if you’re finding it difficult to keep onto enemies, I would strongly recommend pack runes for your thief if you’re playing power (and if you’re playing condi, well that is the weakness of the condi spec, opponents can simply walk away). Near perma swiftness, allows for more or less perma fury, and a pittance of might as well.

No point comparing dmg on aa between classes, all have different mechanics and dmg output on aa isn’t all that matters in combat.

Instead, look at what the buffed dps on RF did with the class. Before power lb ranger could kill someone but most sucked horribly cos 1. the playerbase learned only to pew pew in pve 2. kitten class mechanics (pets can be such a PITA).

Now with increased dps on RF, it’s much easier to deal high dmg, especially in team fights where opponents can’t always keep block/evades/reflect/dodges just for when a ranger uses uses his lb.

If it’s easier to kill others than before, why should lb rangers now even try to go from pve pew pew scrub gameplay to more skilled gameplay?

That’s why I hate lb rangers, most are comfortable to stay that pew pew scrub they are and cause grief to own team/server players by being bad players that turn into rally bots when there is no wall nearby.

Helly.2597:

Zero Day.2594:

Interesting… You’re, for some odd reason, including LoS as an issue but not that the target can move in melee range (out of range), the target can dodge in both cases (and again move out of melee range), the target might have a dash of some sort… and so on. Only looking at one thing (LoS) for some reason…

I’ll ignore the condescending nature of your post and address why I didn’t and don’t believe the issues you brought up are even close to the issue of LOS for rangers.

Thieves have the best ability to stick to a target in melee range, bar none. S/D thieves have sword 2 (which against rangers can even be used to exploit LOS at the same time), D/P thieves have SS (an amazing ability especially since the blind goes through blocks so the GS ranger knockback will miss despite blocking), and all meta thief builds have steal on a 21s cd and infiltrators signet, and most of the builds also have shadowstep.

This gives most thieves have a minimum of 3 abilities to close the gap, 1 of which is spammable (sword 2 or d/p 3) and most will actually have that forth ability in the shadowstep. Assuming you manage your initiative decently well, you shouldn’t have issues sticking to a target in melee range.

And honestly the dodges comment shouldn’t even need to be addressed. Every class has dodges, heck I ignored a thief being able to dodge behind LOS while a ranger pewpews at him in my original post, my mistake.

Thieves have a lot of gap closers, yes, but you lose a lot of damage chasing targets, even with these tools compared to when you attack someone standing in place. Consider also that a thief has to dodge, evade, and often run out of AoEs during team fights. A ranger can unload without any of that.