Adrenal Health Must Be Toned Down

Adrenal Health Must Be Toned Down

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Posted by: kakumbien.8047

kakumbien.8047

Strongest passive healing in the game alone without any sacrifice of something and it is a minor trait . It is alone do much more healing than lots of skills in the game .

List of skills that gives MORE healing than adrenal health the 2nd minor trait: ( Other effects of skills weren’t considered , and counted without any healing power)

> Healing Signet ( Warrior)
>Troll Ungent (Ranger)
>Signet of Resolve (Guardian)
>Channeled Vigor (Thief)
>Skelk Venom (Thief)
>Healing Turret ( Engineer )
>A.E.D (Engineer)
>Medic Gyro (Engineer)
>Well of Eternity ( Mesmer)

These are the healing skills that do more healing that the trait . But if you compare all of these as healing per second , not even one of these skills are better than Adrenal Health . It gives 6705 healing in 15 seconds witthout any healing power . This skill must be nerfed and buffed at the same time . And you ask “HOW ?” . Easy . Reduce the base healing and increase the healing power multiplier . Same thing that have done for mesmer’s trait Restorative Illusions . I think this is the only reason of warrior’s bloody tankiness even with berserker amulet . I am ok with every other stuff on warrior . Don’t you think it is a little bit too much ?

Bone Horn (Charr Engineer)
Bone Fighter (Minionmaster Necro)
Kakumvale (Conditioner Necro)

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Posted by: Caedmon.6798

Caedmon.6798

Youre completely wrong actually.Adrenhp isn’t the issue,its our endure pains that every warri is running and that are able to stack double durations now,besides the fact that alot of warri’s run shield nowadays aswell,its due to these passives and sustainable mechanics that warr is able to quickly regain hp with adren hp after a burst for adren hp + healsig while playing defensively with block or ep up.Hp regen alone can be fought in numerous ways anyway.

basically,it’s the combination of adren hp – healsig while having endure pain or blocks up that makes it seem so strong.Strip the warri of both endure pains and look how strong this regen really is.

(edited by Caedmon.6798)

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Posted by: vorpal.1497

vorpal.1497

If only there was a condition that reduced healing

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Posted by: Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318

no way man. Healing power contribution as the sole solution would kill power builds if u decided to drastically reduced the base healing. It’d outright kill power builds and the only viable builds u would see are sage amulet condi warriors and carrion hybrid but then with sage amulet condi build Because there is no amulet with healing power that could support any potential power build without any ferocity and crit chance lower then 50 percent. U’d be hitting like a wed noodle Heck u can’t even have a base crit chance of 33.33 percent without using fury.

Sage amulet Mace Bow
Sage Amulet Carrion Hybrid
Sage amulet Ragezerker

And now that we have sage amulet builds with an either stronger adrenal health we will see the forums kittening about how condi warriors are even more broken.

So u either give it another slight nerf. Or u give it a huge nerf and increase healing power contribution and u will see only condi builds using sage amulet. depending on the healing power contibrution sage amulet could be overepresented and u might just make macebow stronger.

Btw I don’t even think Adrenal health needs a single ounce of nerfing given u have scrappers bieng even tankier or just as tanky at the very least then warriors without healing power either, If we gonna nerf warrior because of lack of healing power. then how bout we take scrappers with us? scrappers bieng faster, having the ability to reset fightsm having protection, swiftness and regen? Can we do that?

Honestly when almost every build has lots of sustain, with scrapper bieng in the exact same boat or maby even worse. What is thier to complain about? How is that a druid with no ferocity and not even 50 precision can still hit so hard while providing AOE healing, mobility for decaps and ress ability? It’s not as if druid who supposedly sacrifices offence for defence and support is lacking in the dps. Heck scrapper might even be tankier then warrior straight up plus it can rez and has no healing power either.

I don’t get it why people Always try to single out classes while u could make the same argument for almost all even DH(symbolic) with the exception of necro, thief and Revenant.

This is not a warrior thing. Heck the only class that sacifices dps or healing for the other is tempest. If u go healing u lose dps, If u go dps u got almost no sustain.

(edited by Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318)

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Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

Lol

Primal bursts count as level 2 burst skills – PvP and WvW only

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Posted by: Thoth Divine.8642

Thoth Divine.8642

Keep in mind most warriors these days are running Berserker amulet so yes they will do a lot of damage and the endure pains/blocks are annoying, but they are fairly easy to burst. I play one but also play other classes and have no problem fighting other warriors. It’s mostly a matter of timing – dodging their bursts, saving your defensive abilities for Berserk mode and spiking them after Endure Pain is gone. Also most of them run Signet of Might (I don’t) which leave them extremely vulnerable to CC.

Blessed Curse – Symbolic DH
Thoth Divine – Power Necro
I Hope You Die – Burst Berserker

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Posted by: Lalainnia.3598

Lalainnia.3598

It was already nerfed in pvp by 10% on july 26th it used to be stronger ppl really need to learn to back off when a warrior goes into berserk.

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Posted by: Deimos Tel Arin.7391

Deimos Tel Arin.7391

adrenal health is fine.

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Posted by: Justine.6351

Justine.6351

Maybe with the huge cleaving burst skills there needs to be a rework on the trait overall. Or maybe even shortening its duration so 100% uptime requires landing more than 1 burst every lol15seconds.

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Posted by: kakumbien.8047

kakumbien.8047

Every match there are least 3-4 warriors in a game. First of all you should know the reasons of it. Safe and easy to play , perfect aeo and single target damage , high sustain even with berserker amulet . If you know the reason of previous engi nerfs , it was exactly same reasons . So saying "l2p , back off , dodge it " doesn’t mean anything and i hear the same thing for 4 years from players who don’t want to be touched .

Bone Horn (Charr Engineer)
Bone Fighter (Minionmaster Necro)
Kakumvale (Conditioner Necro)

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Posted by: choovanski.5462

choovanski.5462

y’all have got to remember that warrior was recently trash tier. i was a completely unvaible awful class.

AH is basically what brought warrior back to meta. so ya gotta be careful with nerfing it. because an overnerf would just make warrior trash again. i mean I know a number of you would like that because then warrior would be easy to beat and no-one would play it, but that’s not good for the health of the game.

personally I would reduce the radius of arc divider, or perhaps give it a wind up of sorts. making it harder to land will mean less damage, and less AH procs.

skull grinder is really easy to dodge right now, and isn’t that punishing on a power build. so I feel an arc divider nerf would be the best way to go.

shield is not an issue, any unlockable skill solves that issue easy. endure pain is irritating, but not if you’re playing a condi build, or if you can actually space out your damage (IE save cooldowns for after endure pain).

. Engi & Warr . Beta > 2017 Death of PvP
currently a Boyfriend main :P
Waiting To ReRoll Mystic & Forget About Tyria

(edited by choovanski.5462)

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Posted by: Zenith.7301

Zenith.7301

If only there was a condition that reduced healing

On the class with 12 seconds worth of condition immunity and condi removal on the very burst that heals them lololololol.

Zerker Stance , Endure Painx2. 12 seconds immunity to conditions on top of easy cleanse, 10 seconds of physical immunity with Defy Pain proc and Endure Pain, auto stun break with Last Stand on top of stacked stability.

And then of course there’s shield block and whirlwind if for some reason the warrior needs even more damage evasion.

Failing all that, 18k HP base health, highest base armor, and healing signet is the highest sustained healing in game.

Warrior only class who can take a toughness stacked druid down to 20-30% HP with a mere skull grinder/headbut taunt into 100b and finish off with whirlwind and arcing slice.

y’all have got to remember that warrior was recently trash tier. i was a completely unvaible awful class.

AH is basically what brought warrior back to meta. so ya gotta be careful with nerfing it. because an overnerf would just make warrior trash again. i mean I know a number of you would like that because then warrior would be easy to beat and no-one would play it, but that’s not good for the health of the game.

personally I would reduce the radius of arc divider, or perhaps give it a wind up of sorts. making it harder to land will mean less damage, and less AH procs.

skull grinder is really easy to dodge right now, and isn’t that punishing on a power build. so I feel an arc divider nerf would be the best way to go.

shield is not an issue, any unlockable skill solves that issue easy. endure pain is irritating, but not if you’re playing a condi build, or if you can actually space out your damage (IE save cooldowns for after endure pain).

Warrior wasn’t trash. It’s been relevant if not oppressively dominant as GS/mace+shield in WvW roaming for years.

Warriors just love to whine to get their buffs and we’ve been through this cycle of crying about survival only to become juggernauts.

Warriors can either have kittened damage, CC, or sustain. They can’t have it all.

Stupid that people even dare suggest that people kite a warrior. How in hell is anyone who isn’t a thief or mesmer supposed to do that. Necro can’t kite a warrior, guardian can’t kite a warrior, ele can’t kite a warrior.

Warrior melee mobility is second only to thief. Except unlike thief they’re much more resistant to burst.

(edited by Zenith.7301)

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Posted by: choovanski.5462

choovanski.5462

If only there was a condition that reduced healing

On the class with 12 seconds worth of condition immunity and condi removal on the very burst that heals them lololololol.

Warrior only class who can take a toughness stacked druid down to 20-30% HP with a mere skull grinder/headbut taunt into 100b and finish off with whirlwind and arcing slice.

not to be that guy, but if that druid either popped SoS, or stunbreaks into evade/stealth they would take hardly any dmg.

i mean sure if you just stand there and eat damage like Goldilocks eating the bears breakfast yeah, a zerker amulet class will kill ya, but homes any good druid should live.

=====

also, @Zenith no-one cares about WvW roaming here. trapper theif can be strong there even.

warrior was trash tier in PvP for well over 6 months. it was literally at the point where if you queued on warrior you would get asked to change every game. the class was awful IN PVP. how it was in wvw is irrelevant.

. Engi & Warr . Beta > 2017 Death of PvP
currently a Boyfriend main :P
Waiting To ReRoll Mystic & Forget About Tyria

(edited by choovanski.5462)

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Posted by: Zenith.7301

Zenith.7301

If only there was a condition that reduced healing

On the class with 12 seconds worth of condition immunity and condi removal on the very burst that heals them lololololol.

Warrior only class who can take a toughness stacked druid down to 20-30% HP with a mere skull grinder/headbut taunt into 100b and finish off with whirlwind and arcing slice.

not to be that guy, but if that druid either popped SoS, or stunbreaks into evade/stealth they would take hardly any dmg.

i mean sure if you just stand there and eat damage like Goldilocks eating the bears breakfast yeah, a zerker amulet class will kill ya, but homes any good druid should live.

A 60 sec cd SoS is gonna do jackkitten when warrior 100b is every 6.5 seconds and their headbutt is 1/3 the cooldown at 20 second and skull crack is an 8 second cd.

It’s not like the druid even does enough damage to outDPS the passive healing of a warrior, so it’s a matter of waiting 20 seconds until the warrior can kill the ranger.

Warrior melee is just oppressive because of the massive damage layered with several low cooldown cd paired with a class who has 10+ seconds of both physical and condi immunity, on top of shield block, ridiculous sustained healing, and to top it off has 3 stun breaks built in thanks to two endure pains, and the autotrigger on last stance giving them another on top of stability.

Remove Defy pain, reduce cd of endure pain to 40-45 second, and reduce duration of zerker stance to 5 seconds.

This layering of immunities in this game for such ridiculous amounts of time is what’s ruining the game.

Classes should choose between defense and offense. Defensive cooldowns shouldn’t turn into offensive cooldowns you can use to deal damage without retaliation.

(edited by Zenith.7301)

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Posted by: choovanski.5462

choovanski.5462

If only there was a condition that reduced healing

On the class with 12 seconds worth of condition immunity and condi removal on the very burst that heals them lololololol.

Warrior only class who can take a toughness stacked druid down to 20-30% HP with a mere skull grinder/headbut taunt into 100b and finish off with whirlwind and arcing slice.

not to be that guy, but if that druid either popped SoS, or stunbreaks into evade/stealth they would take hardly any dmg.

i mean sure if you just stand there and eat damage like Goldilocks eating the bears breakfast yeah, a zerker amulet class will kill ya, but homes any good druid should live.

A 60 sec cd SoS is gonna do jackkitten when warrior 100b is every 6.5 seconds and their headbutt is 1/3 the cooldown at 20 second and skull crack is an 8 second cd.

It’s not like the druid even does enough damage to outDPS the passive healing of a warrior, so it’s a matter of waiting 20 seconds until the warrior can kill the ranger.

I’m not sure what type of druid build you’re running, but usually they lean to support or damage. a damage druid should have a fair chance at bursting the warrior down if they can time pet busts, SotW, LB 2 around the endure pains. a support druids job isn’t to 1v1 DPS classes. it has high team sustain and support, which warrior totally lacks, it’s a completely different type of build with different goals. warrior can’t heal any of your teammates. saying warrior is too strong because it’s 1v1 potential is higher than a support build is like saying ele is OP because it heals more than a theif.

sure it’s boring to wait out endure pain, but it’s not a big deal. furthermore if you’re playing a condi build endure pain is irrelevant. on the flipside, zerker stance is an issue for the condi build, but not for most power builds. so, since the immunities are only to one type of damage they are actually easy to deal with depending on the build you’re playing.

like, if I’m on a condi build ima just cc and condi all the way through 8 sec of endure pain, like why would i care about it?

shield block is no issue at all if you have unblockable skills.

. Engi & Warr . Beta > 2017 Death of PvP
currently a Boyfriend main :P
Waiting To ReRoll Mystic & Forget About Tyria

(edited by choovanski.5462)

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Posted by: Zenith.7301

Zenith.7301

If only there was a condition that reduced healing

On the class with 12 seconds worth of condition immunity and condi removal on the very burst that heals them lololololol.

Warrior only class who can take a toughness stacked druid down to 20-30% HP with a mere skull grinder/headbut taunt into 100b and finish off with whirlwind and arcing slice.

not to be that guy, but if that druid either popped SoS, or stunbreaks into evade/stealth they would take hardly any dmg.

i mean sure if you just stand there and eat damage like Goldilocks eating the bears breakfast yeah, a zerker amulet class will kill ya, but homes any good druid should live.

A 60 sec cd SoS is gonna do jackkitten when warrior 100b is every 6.5 seconds and their headbutt is 1/3 the cooldown at 20 second and skull crack is an 8 second cd.

It’s not like the druid even does enough damage to outDPS the passive healing of a warrior, so it’s a matter of waiting 20 seconds until the warrior can kill the ranger.

I’m not sure what type of druid build you’re running, but usually they lean to support or damage. a damage druid should have a fair chance at bursting the warrior down if they can time pet busts, SotW, LB 2 around the endure pains. a support druids job isn’t to 1v1 DPS classes. it has high team sustain and support, which warrior totally lacks, it’s a completely different type of build with different goals. warrior can’t heal any of your teammates. saying warrior is too strong because it’s 1v1 potential is higher than a support build is like saying ele is OP because it heals more than a theif.

sure it’s boring to wait out endure pain, but it’s not a big deal. furthermore if you’re playing a condi build endure pain is irrelevant. on the flipside, zerker stance is an issue for the condi build, but not for most power builds. so, since the immunities are only to one type of damage they are actually easy to deal with depending on the build you’re playing.

like, if I’m on a condi build ima just cc and condi all the way through 8 sec of endure pain, like why would i care about it?

shield block is no issue at all if you have unblockable skills.

lol, a power druid stands not even a remote chance against warrior. It has no sustained damage whatsoever, and all its damage is tied to easily telegraphed pet f2 and LB2, both of which are easily dodged.

And that’s assuming that for some reason the warrior isn’t running reflect on shield stance, which renders the ranger useless.

In case you haven’t noticed, warriors don’t just run one type of stance. They run both endure pain and zerker stance, so your condi druid is gonna be boned anyways.

I don’t understand why this is difficult for you. When BM (condi)/Spirit rangers were a thing, it was warriors who directly hardcountered these builds.

Druid exchanges even more damage for increased survival. You won’t hold the point alone against a warrior as a ranger, period.

The class with the best chance at that is probably a mesmer or really sharp thief who will lose the point but can beat the war 1v1 to recover it.

(edited by Zenith.7301)

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

y’all have got to remember that warrior was recently trash tier. i was a completely unvaible awful class.

AH is basically what brought warrior back to meta. so ya gotta be careful with nerfing it. because an overnerf would just make warrior trash again. i mean I know a number of you would like that because then warrior would be easy to beat and no-one would play it, but that’s not good for the health of the game.

personally I would reduce the radius of arc divider, or perhaps give it a wind up of sorts. making it harder to land will mean less damage, and less AH procs.

skull grinder is really easy to dodge right now, and isn’t that punishing on a power build. so I feel an arc divider nerf would be the best way to go.

shield is not an issue, any unlockable skill solves that issue easy. endure pain is irritating, but not if you’re playing a condi build, or if you can actually space out your damage (IE save cooldowns for after endure pain).

If a single trait is the only reason a class is meta then that class needs to be rebalanced. Then again the entire game needs a proper balancing anyway.

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Posted by: megilandil.7506

megilandil.7506

warrior can’t heal any of your teammates. saying warrior is too strong because it’s 1v1 potential is higher than a support build is like saying ele is OP because it heals more than a theif.

false, warrior can heal teammates, not the actual meta thing , but warrior can heal via traited shouts
when talking about a determined build dont generalize to the complete class, sayimg war cant heal teamies is false, actual meta builds dont do is true

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Posted by: SlayerSixx.5763

SlayerSixx.5763

Ehhhh, idk man. It FEELS fine. Warriors do a lot of damage and are hella tanky, yes, but I rarely feel like I could’ve done nothing to fight them.

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Posted by: Justine.6351

Justine.6351

warrior can’t heal any of your teammates. saying warrior is too strong because it’s 1v1 potential is higher than a support build is like saying ele is OP because it heals more than a theif.

false, warrior can heal teammates, not the actual meta thing , but warrior can heal via traited shouts
when talking about a determined build dont generalize to the complete class, sayimg war cant heal teamies is false, actual meta builds dont do is true

Lols I should take my healing Shout regen banner build into spvp and see what it can do.

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Posted by: megilandil.7506

megilandil.7506

warrior can’t heal any of your teammates. saying warrior is too strong because it’s 1v1 potential is higher than a support build is like saying ele is OP because it heals more than a theif.

false, warrior can heal teammates, not the actual meta thing , but warrior can heal via traited shouts
when talking about a determined build dont generalize to the complete class, sayimg war cant heal teamies is false, actual meta builds dont do is true

Lols I should take my healing Shout regen banner build into spvp and see what it can do.

its only an observation, people complaining they cant do things that class can do, if you copy paste metabattle builds and never tweak them you can´t.
but there are options out metabatle and classes can do a lot of things out of current meta.

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Posted by: SlayerSixx.5763

SlayerSixx.5763

warrior can’t heal any of your teammates. saying warrior is too strong because it’s 1v1 potential is higher than a support build is like saying ele is OP because it heals more than a theif.

false, warrior can heal teammates, not the actual meta thing , but warrior can heal via traited shouts
when talking about a determined build dont generalize to the complete class, sayimg war cant heal teamies is false, actual meta builds dont do is true

Lols I should take my healing Shout regen banner build into spvp and see what it can do.

its only an observation, people complaining they cant do things that class can do, if you copy paste metabattle builds and never tweak them you can´t.
but there are options out metabatle and classes can do a lot of things out of current meta.

But theres a reason WHY they’re out of the meta.

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Posted by: Justine.6351

Justine.6351

warrior can’t heal any of your teammates. saying warrior is too strong because it’s 1v1 potential is higher than a support build is like saying ele is OP because it heals more than a theif.

false, warrior can heal teammates, not the actual meta thing , but warrior can heal via traited shouts
when talking about a determined build dont generalize to the complete class, sayimg war cant heal teamies is false, actual meta builds dont do is true

Lols I should take my healing Shout regen banner build into spvp and see what it can do.

its only an observation, people complaining they cant do things that class can do, if you copy paste metabattle builds and never tweak them you can´t.
but there are options out metabatle and classes can do a lot of things out of current meta.

But theres a reason WHY they’re out of the meta.

I honestly think I could party support better than an ele on warrior simply because of the range. I’m not willing to tank my rating a week before season ends to prove it though ;-(

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Posted by: Crinn.7864

Crinn.7864

But theres a reason WHY they’re out of the meta.

Because the metabattle curators decided it was so?

Sanity is for the weak minded.
YouTube

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Posted by: megilandil.7506

megilandil.7506

warrior can’t heal any of your teammates. saying warrior is too strong because it’s 1v1 potential is higher than a support build is like saying ele is OP because it heals more than a theif.

false, warrior can heal teammates, not the actual meta thing , but warrior can heal via traited shouts
when talking about a determined build dont generalize to the complete class, sayimg war cant heal teamies is false, actual meta builds dont do is true

Lols I should take my healing Shout regen banner build into spvp and see what it can do.

its only an observation, people complaining they cant do things that class can do, if you copy paste metabattle builds and never tweak them you can´t.
but there are options out metabatle and classes can do a lot of things out of current meta.

But theres a reason WHY they’re out of the meta.

and meta this season much more than others is false, meta is team based and perfect comp based, in solo q this meta only “works” cuz players are stick to it, but some good rounded builds out of “meta” brings havock doing unexpected things

(edited by megilandil.7506)

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Posted by: SlayerSixx.5763

SlayerSixx.5763

But theres a reason WHY they’re out of the meta.

Because the metabattle curators decided it was so?

Nooooooot exactly. Here’s the deal. Every class in this game can, more or less, do the same things another class can do, but to varying degrees and with varying styles. This means that there will be classes that do certain things VERY WELL and things very poorly in any given scenario.

Thing is, this game (like any other) has a certain set of key objectives. These objectives are primarily either controlling a point through team fight supremacy or side point dueling.

You can probably custom engineer a bunker warrior build similar to the current ele or druid and actually have it work well, but I’m willing to bet that it won’t outpace these two for support which then leaves you with the things that warrior DOES do better than everyone else which, in this case, is this build which is why it is meta. By supporting this nerf, youre killing off their most OPTIMAL function currently and relegating them to a role that will leave them in the shadow of two other specs who, by all counts, are DESIGNED to do whatever it is they’re doing.

Being opposed to the current state of the meta because it reflects an overall state of the game that is not fun is one thing, but simply being against the meta because it feels like youre being told what to do and are deciding to rebel is, frankly, stupid.

(edited by SlayerSixx.5763)

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Posted by: megilandil.7506

megilandil.7506

But theres a reason WHY they’re out of the meta.

Because the metabattle curators decided it was so?

Nooooooot exactly. Here’s the deal. Every class in this game can, more or less, do the same things another class can do, but to varying degrees and with varying styles. This means that there will be classes that do certain things VERY WELL and things very poorly in any given scenario.

Thing is, this game (like any other) has a certain set of key objectives. These objectives are primarily either controlling a point through team fight supremacy or side point dueling.

You can probably custom engineer a bunker warrior build similar to the current ele or druid and actually have it work well, but I’m willing to bet that it won’t outpace these two for support which then leaves you with the things that warrior DOES do better than everyone else which, in this case, is this build which is why it is meta. By supporting this nerf, youre killing off their most OPTIMAL function currently and relegating them to a role that will leave them in the shadow of two other specs who, by all counts, are DESIGNED to do whatever it is they’re doing.

Being opposed to the current state of the meta because it reflects an overall state of the game that is not fun is one thing, but simply being against the meta because it feels like youre being told what to do and are deciding to rebel is, frankly, stupid.

and this is for teams with all roles covered, but now we are in a solo scene, and nobody grants to you your team get all the roles covered unless all players can play all classes at the same level and switch to them(the constant self question of medium players, i q whith x my team has x stacked,¿ is better to play whith x that i play at 100% of my skill or go to y that only play at 80%?).
and meta dont have changed much from s4 that are mixed q

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Posted by: SlayerSixx.5763

SlayerSixx.5763

If youre insistent on playing your class but want to fill another role, then by all means go ahead. Just know that swapping to an entirely different class who does the role you want to accomplish would be more effective.

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Posted by: megilandil.7506

megilandil.7506

If youre insistent on playing your class but want to fill another role, then by all means go ahead. Just know that swapping to an entirely different class who does the role you want to accomplish would be more effective.

you dont understand.
other class probably i play much worse than the on that i q, and with a few tweaks i can adjust the current one that i play at 100% of my skill to acomplish the role that its needed, the said above, adjust the main class or go to the speciallist that i run worse?

and example i mainly q with symbolic dh i get a full heavy class stacked comp whith no roamers should i go to thief that i played in very rare ocasions or tweak a little the class whith speed runes to go to roaming/decap role that no one fills in that comp, in dh i play at 100% of my skill and in thief i will suck

(edited by megilandil.7506)

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Posted by: Zenith.7301

Zenith.7301

warrior can’t heal any of your teammates. saying warrior is too strong because it’s 1v1 potential is higher than a support build is like saying ele is OP because it heals more than a theif.

false, warrior can heal teammates, not the actual meta thing , but warrior can heal via traited shouts
when talking about a determined build dont generalize to the complete class, sayimg war cant heal teamies is false, actual meta builds dont do is true

Lols I should take my healing Shout regen banner build into spvp and see what it can do.

its only an observation, people complaining they cant do things that class can do, if you copy paste metabattle builds and never tweak them you can´t.
but there are options out metabatle and classes can do a lot of things out of current meta.

But theres a reason WHY they’re out of the meta.

Because there are more overpowered builds, not because they’re bad.

It’s sort of like saying power shatter mesmer build is bad because condi PU was broken.

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Posted by: SlayerSixx.5763

SlayerSixx.5763

warrior can’t heal any of your teammates. saying warrior is too strong because it’s 1v1 potential is higher than a support build is like saying ele is OP because it heals more than a theif.

false, warrior can heal teammates, not the actual meta thing , but warrior can heal via traited shouts
when talking about a determined build dont generalize to the complete class, sayimg war cant heal teamies is false, actual meta builds dont do is true

Lols I should take my healing Shout regen banner build into spvp and see what it can do.

its only an observation, people complaining they cant do things that class can do, if you copy paste metabattle builds and never tweak them you can´t.
but there are options out metabatle and classes can do a lot of things out of current meta.

But theres a reason WHY they’re out of the meta.

Because there are more overpowered builds, not because they’re bad.

It’s sort of like saying power shatter mesmer build is bad because condi PU was broken.

Not saying that. Overpowered is relative BTW. Power shatter can be good, but in the context of conquest where your chances of winning increase the longer youre alive and the longer you can pressure, condi shatter (or condi in general) will always be better.

If youre insistent on playing your class but want to fill another role, then by all means go ahead. Just know that swapping to an entirely different class who does the role you want to accomplish would be more effective.

you dont understand.
other class probably i play much worse than the on that i q, and with a few tweaks i can adjust the current one that i play at 100% of my skill to acomplish the role that its needed, the said above, adjust the main class or go to the speciallist that i run worse?

and example i mainly q with symbolic dh i get a full heavy class stacked comp whith no roamers should i go to thief that i played in very rare ocasions or tweak a little the class whith speed runes to go to roaming/decap role that no one fills in that comp, in dh i play at 100% of my skill and in thief i will suck

No, I understood you fully and if you read what I wrote, you’d see that I didn’t disagree with you.

Also, learn to play other stuff if your main isnt the flexible lol.

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Posted by: Zenith.7301

Zenith.7301

Exactly, and my position is that we don’t need more power creep to bring other builds up to the standards of the current meta. We are due for a bunch of nerfs to existing builds, and a shave to several elite specs in general.

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Posted by: SlayerSixx.5763

SlayerSixx.5763

And you still missed the point. Condition, bunker, and hybrid builds have always dominated conquest because of conquest, not because they’re objectively stronger. If you kill condi builds, everyone will end up running as much CC and sustain as they can possibly pack which will still leave power builds in their relatively poor spot. If power builds can, by large, cut through bunker specs, youll end up with an insta kill meta where only the fastest classes (thief, mes, maybe warrior, guard and rev) will be viable and you’ll end up with the same lopsided mess that we have now.

People simply have to accept that conquest will always remain like this and either get with the program or move on.

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Posted by: Crinn.7864

Crinn.7864

If youre insistent on playing your class but want to fill another role, then by all means go ahead. Just know that swapping to an entirely different class who does the role you want to accomplish would be more effective.

And then you realize that every one of those meta builds where considered “non-meta” once upon a time.

It wasn’t too long ago that axe necro was considered unplayable. And it wasn’t too long ago that condi warrior was considered better than power.

Believe it or not some people break meta because they have real reasons to believe the meta is wrong. Not because of vanity.

Sanity is for the weak minded.
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Posted by: SlayerSixx.5763

SlayerSixx.5763

If youre insistent on playing your class but want to fill another role, then by all means go ahead. Just know that swapping to an entirely different class who does the role you want to accomplish would be more effective.

And then you realize that every one of those meta builds where considered “non-meta” once upon a time.

It wasn’t too long ago that axe necro was considered unplayable. And it wasn’t too long ago that condi warrior was considered better than power.

Believe it or not some people break meta because they have real reasons to believe the meta is wrong. Not because of vanity.

Unless literally NOTHING changed between point A and point B, I’m certain the meta won’t shift unless the devs drop changes to make it happen. Very rarely do metas in ANY game shift without change from the devs.

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Posted by: Crinn.7864

Crinn.7864

Unless literally NOTHING changed between point A and point B, I’m certain the meta won’t shift unless the devs drop changes to make it happen. Very rarely do metas in ANY game shift without change from the devs.

There where no changes made to necro or warriors when the meta change happened.

The only thing that changed was player’s perceptions.

I will also point out that condi warrior existed on day 1 of HoT, but it didn’t become meta until well into s2. Same for condi Chrono.

Some classes are stagnant. (like engi) But other classes like Necro have changed constantly often without any dev input.

Sanity is for the weak minded.
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Posted by: SlayerSixx.5763

SlayerSixx.5763

Unless literally NOTHING changed between point A and point B, I’m certain the meta won’t shift unless the devs drop changes to make it happen. Very rarely do metas in ANY game shift without change from the devs.

There where no changes made to necro or warriors when the meta change happened.

The only thing that changed was player’s perceptions.

I will also point out that condi warrior existed on day 1 of HoT, but it didn’t become meta until well into s2. Same for condi Chrono.

Some classes are stagnant. (like engi) But other classes like Necro have changed constantly often without any dev input.

If I’m not mistaken, the release of HoT brought about unkillable bunkers. Condi warr existed, yea, but it was nowhere near optimal in the face of the bigger picture.

Sometimes a class itself doesn’t need to change. Sometimes the classes keeping THEM back hit a series of changes that allow for these non-meta specs to obtain some semblance of relevance.

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Posted by: Crinn.7864

Crinn.7864

Sometimes a class itself doesn’t need to change. Sometimes the classes keeping THEM back hit a series of changes that allow for these non-meta specs to obtain some semblance of relevance.

Correct that is often what shifts the meta. But it still requires people to go out of meta to change it.

Somebody still has to think “hey Blighter’s works well with spite and soul reaping, and that combo synergizes better with power than with condi, so I should run axe”

Sanity is for the weak minded.
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Posted by: SlayerSixx.5763

SlayerSixx.5763

And that is all good and well, but you always have to ask yourself the following things when deciding to build and run whatever it is you intend to run.

What is the meta and why is it this way?

Where does my build fit in the meta?

If you can come up with concrete answers that are close to the reality of the situation for the first question, youll be able to come up with a proper answer for the second.

Synergy between traits and stats is obviously the best way to go when creating a build, but synergy in your traits, runes, weapon choices, and amulets isnt enough sometimes.

What I’m basically trying to say is that anybody who wants to win never really “goes out of the meta”. The builds on metabattle dont define the meta. Those builds are a byproduct of the meta.

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

Pretty much comes down to needing to reduce the radius of Arc Divider (Why the hell is a super-low-cooldown melee skill 450? Even Soul spiral on 10x its cooldown on a channel on a profession with limited stability that can lose the skill mid-channel from incoming damage with that ridiculously-big scythe is only 300), but also reworking warrior’s kit around not depending on stances and having stances not be as forgiving as they are.

Warrior’s issue right now is the fact its kit is too simplistic and weak to be effective without some very broken mechanics like Arc Divider, Skullgrinder, AD, and stances. Take those away and you’ve got something pretty much non-functional with no tricks up its sleeve.

But of course, it’s also stupid that there exist any builds (I.E. pretty much every elite spec) that have the capacity to play very safely by being able to soak a crazy amount of damage while also dealing a ton of it simultaneously.

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Posted by: duster.7013

duster.7013

1. The cooldown is longer than 15s due to rampage

2. Play warrior sometime. They are mediocre if you play well, and trash if you drop the ball. You can either spec for mobility or killing. If you go power for gs mobility you cant kill anything if they are skilled. Condi is not mobile.

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Posted by: KraunK.2319

KraunK.2319

Another thing is that PvP is now a bomb fight and war as a class has very high 1vs1 dps. Almost every weapon is a melee weapon so it has to stay alive in some way in very high damage team fights ( can’t stay ranged. It has to stay in the middle of high damage range).

I’m the Italian in Algeri

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

1. The cooldown is longer than 15s due to rampage

2. Play warrior sometime. They are mediocre if you play well, and trash if you drop the ball. You can either spec for mobility or killing. If you go power for gs mobility you cant kill anything if they are skilled. Condi is not mobile.

If you’re going to go accusing people of not knowing what the profession is about you should probably know that the meta build runs a 10s cooldown on Berserk itself where Arc Divider has a 3.5s cooldown and can be repeatedly used during Berserker uptime and to not confuse the name between the profession mechanic and an elite.

And that the warrior doesn’t need to be mobile in PvP given rangers, mesmers, and thieves are all much better-suited for decaps and recaps, anyways since the warrior is meant to be sustaining/tanking a point.

But that’s just me.

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Posted by: choovanski.5462

choovanski.5462

two things:

yeah, im aware shout warrior exists. playing shout-hammer back when shoutbow was meta was the most fun i’ve had in pvp. unfortunately shouts were nerfed heavily judt before HoT came out, so they don’t work all too well now. support warrior is a waste of a slot currently.

secondly, with HoT all classes are broken & OP when compared with pre-HoT balance philosophy. warrior’s biggest issue is arc divider (the rest of the f1s still have big telegraphs so are fine imo). it needs a windup & a reduction in AoE size. making it harder to land will reduce both warriors sustain & damage.
as far as the stances go, idk. they’ve been like this for years. myself & a lot of other players don’t have an issue w waiting out long cooldowns & playing aroubd them. however there’s a decent amount of the community that just hate anything that makes people immune to damage (presumably because they are bloodthirsty & impatient).

i dont really find warrior frustrating to fight outside of arc divider, but i’ve played the class a ton & know how to fight it (on warrior condi more often than not, engineer or guardian (i like bruiser builds sue me)). i do find mesmer frustrating a lot of the time though, but that’s more due to my lack of mesmer class knowledge as opposed to it being OP. so, i would suggest either playing some warrior of fighting them in 1v1 arenas. it’s a very beatable class.

. Engi & Warr . Beta > 2017 Death of PvP
currently a Boyfriend main :P
Waiting To ReRoll Mystic & Forget About Tyria

(edited by choovanski.5462)

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Posted by: steelheart.7386

steelheart.7386

My main problem with these nerf calls is that Warriors have had all these abilities for quite awhile and now that its solo queue Warrior are suddenly op. In none of the first four leagues seasons were Warriors all that popular. All of a sudden we go to duo and solo queue and there are Warriors all over the place. Is the problem truly Warriors or is it the way they are designed really strong for solo pvp? Are we sure we are going to stay solo and duo queue only forever? A-net has to be careful. If we are going to stay solo and duo only imo Warriors need a nerfs of some kind because they are extremely self contained (lots of self healing and condition clearing) for a form of pvp with very little coordination. If we are going to go back to being able to group with 3+ im not sure much needs to be done because like I said they really were not meta league seasons 1-4.

(edited by steelheart.7386)

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

My main problem with these nerf calls is that Warriors have had all these abilities for quite awhile and now that its solo queue Warrior are suddenly op. In none of the first four leagues seasons were Warriors all that popular. All of a sudden we go to duo and solo queue and there are Warriors all over the place. Is the problem truly Warriors or is it the way they are designed really strong for solo pvp? Are we sure we are going to stay solo and duo queue only forever? A-net has to be careful. If we are going to stay solo and duo only imo Warriors need a nerfs of some kind because they are extremely self contained (lots of self healing and condition clearing) for a form of pvp with very little coordination. If we are going to go back to being able to group with 3+ im not sure much needs to be done because like I said they really were not meta league seasons 1-4.

It’s a combination of buffs and abilities the Berserker has which can make it overbearing. Considering most of its power stems from Arc Divider/Skullgrinder/Resistance uptime/Double EP + DoA stacked with blocks and Adrenal Health, it ends up with supercharged abilities and defenses with the capacity to deal a lot of damage. In essence, the same problem the scrapper had and to some extent still has.

Unfortunately nothing short of changing the way these abilities work will really improve things in general as I feel like largely the warrior is a win-hard-or-die profession right now just based on its kit; it’ll either be dominant or weak.

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Posted by: LouWolfskin.3492

LouWolfskin.3492

The general problem here, as with every meta build at the moment is the synergy between certain things.

There are, since the release of elite specs, traits and skills that overperform in certain situations.
So those combinations, as well as some other stuff, need to be looked at.

Mesmer was brought up here… if i remember right Chrono at the moment runs elite spec as well as Illusions and because of that combination it can overperform as a condi build.
Easy fix? Make old class lines elite specs and rework them properly and look at what exactly is overperforming.

Quite honestly i think that should apply to warrior as well, and if you think about it, maybe AH should be in Discipline so that you can either have a tanky Warrior OR a bursty Berserker who eats you up.
After all, A-Net wants purity of purpose.

On that note, i’d still like to see the elite-spec symbols in PvP as i think only running the classic symbols hides information when you look at your team and the enemy in the prep time, but that’s another story altogether.

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Posted by: cyberzombie.7348

cyberzombie.7348

Just a spitball idea but keep the adrenal health healing but revert the mechanic back to you have to conserve the f1 skill for sustain.

What good is a medic w/o a patient?

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Posted by: reikken.4961

reikken.4961

shortening its duration so 100% uptime requires landing more than 1 burst every lol15seconds.

I like this solution.

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Posted by: Choppy.4183

Choppy.4183

shortening its duration so 100% uptime requires landing more than 1 burst every lol15seconds.

I like this solution.

I prefer just dealing with the Berserker side of that equation. Bursts are way more spammable with it, and nobody’s complaining about vanilla warriors in regards to AH.

I’m Biff Rangoon, and I approved this message.
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