Guild Wars 2

So I played the last part of Season 2 PvP, picking up the meta build for Chrono (though swapping out the silly staff for scepter/sword) and making my way through the divisions with ease over what little time I had to play. I’m a Mesmer Main, 4k hours of pure WvW/PvP since release to give some background.

Anyway, during this time I also kept an eye on the forum feedback, seeing where the tears were being shed toward Chrono. Double Moa, CS, condi clone spam, cleanse spam, portal, bla bla. Mes has a viable build with Chrono right now, and a role in Conquest. From what I experienced, the other meta builds were unable to deal with Chrono effectively without some heavy team pressure (or more likely coordination) and a little bit of luck. I didn’t buy that the Chrono build was OP however, and I started to consider the obvious weaknesses that were ready for exploitation.

At seasons end I started thinking about my Warrior, and what I would do to combat the meta build I’d been running. While I didnt see an easy roflstomp victory, it occurred to me that a power warrior/berserker has a solid edge over that Chrono.

• The Chrono build has no boon removal
• He’s expected to hold home (or far) solo
• He has one stun break (blink)
• He has no stability
• He can kite thanks to staff, even off point if he has to, but is still susceptible to ranged pressure
• He has zero stealth and cannot target drop (big plus to ranged pressure)
• He relies on shield block as a big part of his defence, and war has amazing unblockable uptime

So with that in mind

• Warrior/Berserker has heavy CC potential
• Incredible resistance uptime
• Great cleave and direct damage potential (condi’s will not work)

Ive run out of time, but can you warrior pros see where I’m going with this? So long as you know to dodge or interrupt those Moa’s, there’s a good recipe for Chrono take down here. Either 1v1, or as a heavy +1 CC/burst power.

Thoughts?

Last season I went to diamond on a core warrior (zerker ammy) on my alt account. I always thought condi chrono was a good matchup for me. I see where you’re going with this and I give you my +1

People want to play the warrior to be this sustain machine. As soon as they accept the fact that we have good, hard, reliable, cc and some insane dps we can put a ton of pressure on these “meta” classes, the better off they will be. I personally have never had an issue in spvp, even versus meta classes, I mean I down necros and mesmers fairly easy, maybe they are bad? Maybe I’m just better?

It takes work, and situational awareness to play warrior, you cant just mash buttons and win most times, but it can be done.

We just have a bad stigma.

I’ve been thinking along similar lines, but haven’t found something that’s truly effective yet. But then again, I’m pretty trash on warrior.

If you want to test your warrior builds against a mesmer, feel free to hit me up. I’m certainly excited about the possibility of mesmer having a counter in 1v1s.

My Condi warrior takes them down pretty hardcore, but if they delay me from going berserk for long enough i can’t take them out.

That depends. In 1v1 i can see that hapen if warrior is better player than the mesmer. Other wise mesmer kite the warrior when resistance is up and win easely. In team fights i really doubt that with the boon corrupt / steal.

It would be easier to judge if you post the warrior build that you think can face good chronos.

Furajir.3815:

People want to play the warrior to be this sustain machine. As soon as they accept the fact that we have good, hard, reliable, cc and some insane dps we can put a ton of pressure on these “meta” classes, the better off they will be. I personally have never had an issue in spvp, even versus meta classes, I mean I down necros and mesmers fairly easy, maybe they are bad? Maybe I’m just better?

It takes work, and situational awareness to play warrior, you cant just mash buttons and win most times, but it can be done.

We just have a bad stigma.

This is what i feel too. the better i get playign worror the more fun i have with a heavy control based warrior. Only focus fire on me is fast deth. much faster then my ele with half HP and armor XD…

Mallyx Revenant will probably do much better than Warrior and have better Resistance uptime, but I could see Warrior being the next good thing for duelling Mesmers.

If they didn’t have condi cleanse.

emkelly.2371:

My Condi warrior takes them down pretty hardcore, but if they delay me from going berserk for long enough i can’t take them out.

I don’t have the experience but my concern with taking a condi warrior into the fight is that all a Chrono has to do to counter the condition burst is to use his shatters retroactively. Berserker applies condi’s → Mesmer shatters and cleanses. Though I suppose the mace interrupt style dumps a number of cover condi’s that could certainly overwhelm. Really though it’s the lockdown/interrupt that can really ruin the chrono’s day, as both Moa and Sig of illusions have long cast times. So well timed interrupt could shut down the sheer cleansing capacity of the chrono.

silentnight warrior.2714:

That depends. In 1v1 i can see that hapen if warrior is better player than the mesmer. Other wise mesmer kite the warrior when resistance is up and win easely. In team fights i really doubt that with the boon corrupt / steal.

It would be easier to judge if you post the warrior build that you think can face good chronos.

I’m not to sure on the build. What I think I’ll do is start by running the old Valkzerker build, hunt down some mesmers, and go from there. Kiting wouldn’t worry me to much as A: I’m happy if I force a decap, and B: I’d be sure to run a ranged option as strong ranged pressure is hard on a Mesmer. It also allows you to stay still, which cuts torment damage in half if you’re forced to carry it, and confusion procs can be managed to only utalising key skills. It’s a disciplined fight if with propper feature management for sure.

maybe plunge a banner with regen on the point, high armor, healing signet, dolyak rune ..
And stand still. Don´t know exactly if confusion hurts on autoattack and passive healing.
If not then pick a rifle and stand still on the point ….
And you can kill the mesmer pretty well when his teleport is on CD …. start with a shield bash and smash him …

My typical Flow for fighting a Chrono is pretty simple. (I run a condi power warrior with longbow and Sword Torch over sinister or Viper amulet and Malandru Runes)

Fight Begins with bow out no adrenaline

• Pop Berserkers Stance
• Pindown
• Headbutt+Berserk+Scorched earth
• Swap to sword (Berserker stance ends)
• Flaming Flurry (chrono Cleasses)
• Pop Dolyak+Torch 4 (Chrono CCs to no effect)
• Flaming Flurry (Chrono Blocks)( Berserk ends)
• Torch 5
• Leap +Swap to longbow
• Headbutt
• Berserk+Scorched earth
• Arcing shot
• Scorched earth (Chrono Cleanses)
• AA
• Scorched earth (chrono blocks)
• AA
• Scorched earth
• Swap
• By this point the fight is normally long over depending on how many stacks i can get onto the chrono

havent played war for the past 2 seasons so correct me if im wrong.

Here’s the theory.

1. Tons of FOTM re-rollers are likely to move from necro to Mesmer.
2. There will be at least 2 mesmers in every team you face next season (if not more)
3. Most will be average or below average.

Now generally in pvp you can do 2 things to be an asset to your team.

1. Play a strong top tier meta class using their meta build
or
2. Play a build that is designed specifically to counter the current top tier meta class.

If 1, play mesmer
If 2, play a class that has a ton of CC and condis

So how about the old Skull Crack/Hammer war build. Or Skull Crack/GS

On mesmers wouldn’t that be overwhelmingly large amounts of CC and with stuff like distracting strikes etc it would give you enough condi damage also.

Any thoughts?

I usually do number 2 :-). I do train warrior as second character and when i hit the mesmer (same wit hthief …) with my shied stun he has his teleport ready or dies not coming out of the stun chain i will apply … I always use mace/shield as one set testing which secondary suits me best.

i seriously don’ know man, mes has 10 second teleport on staff, double block on shield and evade on sword with invul on f4, all can be doubled with f5 and blocks on staff 5

its not easy. But if i hit the leap he is mostly done …

lighter.2708:

i seriously don’ know man, mes has 10 second teleport on staff, double block on shield and evade on sword with invul on f4, all can be doubled with f5 and blocks on staff 5

F4 is the true clutch. It allows Mes to take a deep breath no matter what’s happening.

Staff is a lesser concern so long as you wait for the swap or force him out of it.

The Block can be directly countered with sig of might. Actually sword 2 is the more prominent factor. Of course neither can be activated if the mes is CC’d.

Like I said, I don’t think the fight is an easy roflstomp win, only that the tools are there to deal.

I did 1v1 several condi mesmers last season. I think the extra hps will be the deciding factor. I do not remember if the confusion or the torment was worse. I think it was the torment.
That and make sure you kill the illusionary defenders. Condi build doesn’t actually have much clone and illusion generation if you are timely.
For example, do not attack while they are blocking. Apply more pressure while they are in staff, force them to weapon swap. Then you can wait out your hps while they blow the block.

Plus dodging the moa is mandatory. But if you make the mesmer use the moa on the side node and not the mid fight, you have done your job in my opinion.

Furajir.3815:

People want to play the warrior to be this sustain machine. As soon as they accept the fact that we have good, hard, reliable, cc and some insane dps we can put a ton of pressure on these “meta” classes, the better off they will be. I personally have never had an issue in spvp, even versus meta classes, I mean I down necros and mesmers fairly easy, maybe they are bad? Maybe I’m just better?

It takes work, and situational awareness to play warrior, you cant just mash buttons and win most times, but it can be done.

We just have a bad stigma.

I don’t really think most people want warrior to have insane sustain. Think about what people are thinking when they first roll a warrior, assuming they aren’t a veteran. The class description makes them out to be something of a bruiser, right at home on the front lines. This is on par with warriors in WoW, or EQ, or fighters in D&D or what-have-you. Sure, some people might want to build a tank, but for the most part I think many, myself included, just want to be able to stick to a fight.

I get what you’re saying, we do have some great damage and lockdown potential, and most of those who’ve had success have been capitalizing on that. But I didn’t roll a warrior, personally, to play a very loud thief in plate armor.

On the subject of beating meta classes, I’ve also found, oddly enough, that running a rifle makes Reapers a fairly simple class to deal with. As you said, maybe they were just bad, but I never had much trouble with them.

My problem with necros prior to patch was that I could take down their health, i could take down their shroud, but by the time that happens i was spent. I would certainly get them to 25% health and 0% shroud but then i died. I never was able to stick to them long enough to take them out. Now, i have the sustain to outlist them if I play properly. it’s an even match now where before it was just be doing everything in my power to stay alive.

This thread is talking about chrono, but the same applies there as well. I used to have to do everything perfectly in order to just stand a chance. even then i had to hope they made a mistake. Now the class is a bit more forgiving. it has the sustain to allow a skilled (if not master) player to take out almost anything. Thieves still hurt, Minion masters are still a huge pain in the rear end, and Bunker Elementalists are still long drawn out fights. Sure I can kill an elementalist one on 1, but by the time i have them down to almost dead their buddies have arrived.

Ultimately, yes Warriors can take out any meta class now, but you are far from invincible.

On a another note: if you are running a burn warrior, watch out for a warrior running Shield mastery. I killed myself against a Shield stance when I used Flaming flurry. the guy let me him with the first projectile, then activated shield stance, then he returned the favor. 14 stacks of burn hurts.

Furajir.3815:

People want to play the warrior to be this sustain machine. As soon as they accept the fact that we have good, hard, reliable, cc and some insane dps we can put a ton of pressure on these “meta” classes, the better off they will be. I personally have never had an issue in spvp, even versus meta classes, I mean I down necros and mesmers fairly easy, maybe they are bad? Maybe I’m just better?

It takes work, and situational awareness to play warrior, you cant just mash buttons and win most times, but it can be done.

We just have a bad stigma.

In my experience the percieved status of a class usually does not reflect the actual status of the class. People start saying class X is bad and suddently everyone acts like that’s true without actually having tested the class for themselves. There were plentry of Wars who kicked major kitten even while their class was deemed the weakest in the current meta.

Ross Biddle.2367:

lighter.2708:

i seriously don’ know man, mes has 10 second teleport on staff, double block on shield and evade on sword with invul on f4, all can be doubled with f5 and blocks on staff 5

F4 is the true clutch. It allows Mes to take a deep breath no matter what’s happening.

Staff is a lesser concern so long as you wait for the swap or force him out of it.

The Block can be directly countered with sig of might. Actually sword 2 is the more prominent factor. Of course neither can be activated if the mes is CC’d.

Like I said, I don’t think the fight is an easy roflstomp win, only that the tools are there to deal.

yea, except the fact that sig of might is useless, and mesmer sword 3 is also a stunbreak

lighter.2708:

Ross Biddle.2367:

lighter.2708:

i seriously don’ know man, mes has 10 second teleport on staff, double block on shield and evade on sword with invul on f4, all can be doubled with f5 and blocks on staff 5

F4 is the true clutch. It allows Mes to take a deep breath no matter what’s happening.

Staff is a lesser concern so long as you wait for the swap or force him out of it.

The Block can be directly countered with sig of might. Actually sword 2 is the more prominent factor. Of course neither can be activated if the mes is CC’d.

Like I said, I don’t think the fight is an easy roflstomp win, only that the tools are there to deal.

yea, except the fact that sig of might is useless, and mesmer sword 3 is also a stunbreak

Sword 3 isn’t a stunbreak. It hasn’t been one since A.net recoded it like last year. The only stunbreak on the meta build is blink.

Signet of Illusions also has one of the longest cast times in the game (1.25 seconds), which makes it really easy to interrupt (even if he covers w/ quickness). The heal well is also fairly easy to interrupt.

I can see potential for m/sh+sw/t condi war to win if played well, but I need to find a good warrior to test it out.

Alright. I got to play with it a little more last night and it definitely felt like warrior did in the past. Last night I was jumped by two thieves, but blocked when I needed to and stunned when I needed to and ended up winning. One was condi p/d and idk what the other one was, but they both had dash builds. They were good, too, because I’ve played with them before. Warrior definitely feels beast like before.

Yeah one or two good hits on a thief pretty much ends them. I am surprised you 2v1ed after being surprised by two of them and survived. One burst combo from a thief can take 12 your health in an instant.

condi warrior with unblockables can counter. i beat countless moa form using staff meta mesmers . you have to time every attack to the T though.

I encountered some GS/Rifle berserker last night using some sort of hybrid amulet. He was a terrible warrior, but he gave me a real hard time while on meta chrono, +1’ing, forcing me off point, and just general pressure. He could have been more effective if he had the skill.

Furajir.3815:

People want to play the warrior to be this sustain machine. As soon as they accept the fact that we have good, hard, reliable, cc and some insane dps we can put a ton of pressure on these “meta” classes, the better off they will be. I personally have never had an issue in spvp, even versus meta classes, I mean I down necros and mesmers fairly easy, maybe they are bad? Maybe I’m just better?

It takes work, and situational awareness to play warrior, you cant just mash buttons and win most times, but it can be done.

We just have a bad stigma.

I like the approach of War needing some support, but offering tons of DPS/CC to make up for it, but it might not be true anymore with the new adrenal health. Have you seen those heal numbers? Together with Heal Sig, it’s like 8k/10s. Add the highest base-stats in the game and very strong condi-cleanse and it doesn’t look as bad in terms of survival. And I tested that stuff on demolisher Amu and still did some of the highest DPS I ever had on any class.

I think war might actually be in a good place right now, maybe not “condi-shatter mesmer good”, but “worth-playing in ESL good” and I like that.

I’ve been playing around with mace/shield + sword/torch Mercenary warrior and I found it to be pretty effective vs mesmers. It’s all about knowing when to block/dodge the shatters and popping berserker stance at the right time. If your ’zerker stance is off cooldown you can afford to be patient and wait out their blocks/invulns before you go on a stun/daze-spree.

I think you’ll still have trouble vs mesmers who are actually good though, but the build will probably do just fine vs the average bandwagoner.

I played GS Mace/Shield Power Warrior with Demolisher Amulet and it was lot of fun. Def/Dis/Berserker. normal power build.

will counter necro mesmer thief guard

After finally learning the build well enough to not headbutt walls, I’ve found that condi warrior indeed counters condi mes. I’ve documented my experiences here, with a short video: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Current-Chrono-is-Turret-Engi-V2/first#post6143983