Guild Wars 2

Did you know that the early rifles was outranged by a standard longbow?
Lead ball rifles (or rather muskets, as they didnt have rifling back then) was only leathal at 75-100 yards, while longbows have been documented to reach 220 yards or longer and due to the arrows wheight and speed, it would be lethal to non armored units. Furthermore, the crossbow could match the range of the first rifles/muskets and also do lethal damage with high accuracy.

However what sets the primitive guns apart is that you do not need to be outragously burly and have over a decade of specialist training to weild a rifle successfully. you only need a pair of good eyes, a steady hand and functional extremities so you can hold the weapon and pull the trigger.
In the end, simplicity won through.

Rifle wasn’t a bad weapon before rangers were overly buffed. Riffle warrior was almost better than ranger then.

I welcome the changes anet is proposing to rifle so far. I am not sure warriors should have comparable range as rangers.

I do think rangers should have the range toned down a bit though. I have been hit from as far as 2000 range from a ranger because the arching arrow mechanics. This to me a very broken and needs fixed.

Warlord.9074:

Rifle wasn’t a bad weapon before rangers were overly buffed. Riffle warrior was almost better than ranger then.

I welcome the changes anet is proposing to rifle so far. I am not sure warriors should have comparable range as rangers.

I do think rangers should have the range toned down a bit though. I have been hit from as far as 2000 range from a ranger because the arching arrow mechanics. This to me a very broken and needs fixed.

rangers were far from overly buffed. They were given a burst skill and over time, has had their AA brought up to a level where it actually hurts when you spec into zerker, like it does with AA from all other classes when they go zerker.

Prior to buffing Rapid Fire, rangers had, amazingly, 2 burst skills. Maul (Greatsword 2) and Path of Scars (Axe offhand 4). Neither of which is by any means easy to land against players due to being properly telegraphed (even more so then warrior bursts).

So ya, rangers now have THREE burst skills, all of which can be countered and or evaded.

So for once, your warrior cannot do what a ranger does better then the ranger, Get over it and move on.

I think it’s totally fine that the war only has limited range, 1200 seems more than ok if you ask me. That a ranger has more range, 1500, is totally fine aswell. But I understand that the physics of the projectile should not allow you to extrend that range, even though, 2000 is too much. Still 100-200 range extrention should be negated to 0.

yup I agree and pryin I have to disagree with you on how well balanced the maximum non official range is of longbow with eagle eye. As its been reported numerous times to be very far beyond 1500. It has been tested to go as far as 2100 range with using sick em as a measuring stick.

While ranger isn’t unique in abusing this mechanic as some other class ranged skills can surpass their tool tips. None are a groosly broken in the amount of range than exceed.

So Pryan you are wrong sorry.

At no point did you actually say anything that proved any of Prysin’s points wrong.

At no point did did Prysin prove our respond to my argument that the range is too long. I never mentioned anything about rangers damage. That was an invention of his own. Look if you guys want to go against me your going to lose because I am being intentionally vauge for a reason.

Warlord.9074:

At no point did did Prysin prove our respond to my argument that the range is too long. I never mentioned anything about rangers damage. That was an invention of his own. Look if you guys want to go against me your going to lose because I am being intentionally vauge for a reason.

If the range was too long, arenanet would have reduced max “base” range for longbow. However most builds, short of necromancer builds, can close the extra range gap and counter attack in less then 2 seconds. Granted rapidfire can be unloaded in 1, 5 seconds however at 1950 range (furthest i got in pvp lobby testing) the rapidfire animation (long white line of arrows) is not only very obvious, but also easy to counter due to a minimumof 1, 1second projectile travel time.

Ranger longbow is fairly balanced due to the numbers of easy to use counters.

Now drawing lines to reality. If you have a sniper trying to kill you, and you run out into an open field without s pebble to hide behind, and you get killed by that sniper. Then you gave that sniper the kill, because yoj did nothing to try preventing it.

Open fields are ranger territory, just like close confined places are warriors (meaning you gunna struggle not being CCd an bursted)

I remember you as the guy who constantly argued against straight math when it came to Dual Wield Agility. I never claimed that Prysin was arguing specific points. It was you who claimed that you disproved something of his, which is not the case.

In any regard, I like the Rifle, I like the buffs. The range is fine, because the grand majority of “long” range weapons are built around 1200 being the norm. Rangers get the exception to the rule, plus a little help from mechanics. Warriors also get this same help from mechanics, just not with a rifle. It really, honestly, is not worth complaining about.

Ya I remember that too like how later on it was discovered that my maths was right. lol And like later on how it was proven that GS Axe/Mace with proper rotations was better than pure axe /w DWA at the time which is what I was saying all along. I’ll never forget how people on this forum are when they start agreeing with stuff without personally investigating things. I then remember NIKE saying later that I come to the right conclusions for the wrong reasons but whatever.

Just to make things clear no where in this thread did I say rifle needed range buffed. I simply am making the case that the mechnics or rifle are hard limited and the range is exactly what the tool tip says. Where as Rangers its not the case.

As has been said many times warriors seem to be held to a standard that other professions are not held to. When u want to talk about balance Rifle is a v balanced weapon. If you compare that to Longbow, Longbow is not a very balanced weapon because mechanically it is not only broken bcoz of how much further it shoots than it is supposed to shoot. But also how it can be abused where there is no way to abuse a rifle this way.

It is true that warrior can be balanced however if other classes are not held to the same standards as warriors then they are not balanced. thanks.

I dont really care if a necro or ele can close a gap on a ranger. Just because you have ranged doesn’t mean you should be able to kite another ranged profession. Its a pretty ridiculous argument.

When I make claims like rangers are over buffed I am also including things like trapper runes. When rangers where never intended to be a stealth class. There are losts of little things like this.

Engineers can throw nades as far, maybe even hit a tad further due to explosive radius.

However i find it funny that the argument has now reverted to “ranger shouldn’t be able to be better at ranged then others”.

That sir is missing the point; now ranger has nothing to do with RANGEr, that is a fact. Infact, Ranger is simply a term used for people “ranging the land”.
Now, to thematics that makes more sense.
Ranger is first and foremost a Survivalist class, secondary anet claims its the official pet class. Now, to the basics of survival. If i cannot wield a shield (i cannot on a ranger), and i cannot wear metal armor (heavy armor is not possible on a ranger) then i will not survive if someone can blow my head off from outside my attack range. I would not be a survivor, i`d be a lootbag (again).

Warriors got SHIELDS, and a neat little trait that reflects arrows. Infact right after rapid fire was buffed i started toying around with Mace Shield, hammer warrior. simply because when traited the mace would reflect rather then counterattack. So i would get 2x reflects, more then enough to make the ranger think “hah, no more reflect, next one gonna hit”. But no, he ate his own rapid fire, again.

Warriors have the tools to approach, it does not require advantageous terrain (line of sieght obstruction), teleports or stealth. It can simply use a weapon skill and walk over to the ranger.

The only profession, if any, that deserve a increased ranged teleport/leap is necromancer. Simply because the necromancer has almost NO chance of ever approaching a ranger fast enough to not be feared away/knocked back/ bursted down.

The ranger itself has poor tools to deal with incoming damage while wielding any of its ranged weapons.
Shortbow being the most defensive one with a evade and an interrupt is still too short ranged these days to actually fight other ranged units. The longbow has a clunky stealth skill that is slow and requires you to land the arrow, the knockback is predictable, not so much in terms of animation, but by intuition (its kinda like learning how DD thieves works).

PVT warrior will do enough damage with killshot to almost 3 shot a zerk ranger, however a zerk ranger needs to be zerker to be devastating, this is because unlike other professions, rangers does not have good or even decent skill coefficients. At any time, a ranger shares 25-30% of its total outgoing damage with a dysfunctional furball. If you want to complain about rangers damage vs range or range vs others, then you better prepare yourself. For if the ranger is to see others match its range, pet leash range, pet damage and skill coefficients must go up in order to balance out the loss of a critical advantage.

I am sure some of you remember when pets could still chase you from one end of a BL to the other. Good times right? when you were kept in combat and constantly got hit for 1-2k HP while the ranger was camping in its spawn.
Yeah, lets not repeat that, shall we?

Um rangers don’t need to be zerk to win. The current Ranger PVP meta isn’t zerk. Its all about the Condi Trap/survival ranger. Or spirit ranger.

Its true warriors have something called a shield which is supposedly a weapon that only they can wield effectively. Except an engineer shield is way better than a warrior one. Not only does a warrior have to pick up 3 traits total to spec fully into shields or just 1 for a reflect. But an engineer not only doesn’t have to trait but his coold downs are twice as fast. lol

Now granted Engi is a medium armor class except the warrior who should have more sustain than an engi has infact less sustain than a cele engi in the current meta.

Even Zerk rangers are not totally defenseless since they have stances now. How about how a rangers endure pain lasts longer than even a traited warrior endure pain. lol Most rangers I know that use LB also use GS which has a block too.

What happened to that video that GW Fox made of wrecking every single warrior he fought before ranger ever received any buffs.

Ranger “endure pain” has longer CD, like 20 seconds longer, the “other” endure pain moreor less instantly sacrifices your profession mechanic. It would be comparable to warriors getting 4-6 seconds of invuln at the cost of not being able to get adrenaline for 20-60 seconds (good skill that one, right?)

Rangers are more duelist focused, warriors are more all round. i will not deny that warrior sustain is flawed, it is well, outright bad. You float on stances and CC alone. once stances are gone and you fail to CC/target has stability, you lost your only chance to manipulate your sustain short of running away. atleast thats how i feel its like when i play my warrior in PvP.
Rangers are great 1v1, and they should be, because it`s technically 2v1 (pet + ranger) so while the warrior is a brilliant all rounder with great utility and self sustain in most content, it cannot – easily – beat a ranger of equal skill because the ranger has three tools to completely shut the warrior down. Those would be the pet, evades and poison (shutting down heal sig almost from the get go).

I will not argue that warrior is in dire need of having its core sustain looked over. They are becoming a sort of “sink or float” profession, more so when might gets nerfed and thus their pressure is slightly reduced.

Now for the defensive skills on zerk ranger and meta. If ranger is running conditions, IT IS NOT RUNNING LONGBOW, AND IF IT IS, THE RANGER PLAYER IS AN IDIOT. This whole argument was primarily about LONGBOW range being greater then any warrior weapon. Which has NOTHING to do with conditions, at which the longbow is a POWER weapon.

Now that iv`e underlined the basics, lets get back to the topic at hand.
Ranger skill coefficients, with the exception of longbow AA, Maul and Path of Scars, is terrible. Outright terrible. That is because pet`s account for 25-30% of our base damage. Pets also account for a portion of our sustain and utility, although not that much.
Ranger defenses, in zerk (which is the single most efficient setup for longbow. Yes you can do 4-5k damage with rapid fire in full ascended cleric, that still does not make it a good setup for longbow), is bad. A glass ranger wants to be at range, because it has merely FOUR tools to sustain itself.
1 – Hunters Shot (stealth). Hard to land cuz even with Read the Wind, the projectile is slow and telegraphed
2 – Point Blank Shot. Everyone knows its coming, so most functional players put up stability when charging at a ranger
3 – Signet of Stone. A signet granting 6 seconds of DIRECT DAMAGE IMMUNITY, conditions and CC does still work
4 – Greatsword Block/Sword+Dagger Evades. Great, but at this point your main source of DPS, the bow, which you probably have 6-10 trait points invested into using effectively, is now on cooldown. Unlike warrior, Ranger has flat 9 second swap cooldown. Once i swap, i become a very very easy target unless you are very low on health, because most GS skills are slow and exceptionally well telegraphed to the point that most of them can be avoided by just walking away, you do not need to dodge them even. Sword DPS is mainly from auto, which glues me to whoever i am attacking, thus im just begging to get smacked in the face because i cannot stop that rotation once it is going.

So yes, 4 tools is what you got. They are not great, they have drawbacks that is obvious to anyone with experience with ranger, and last but not least, ranger healing skills are only strong if you can actually drag things out. Zerker cannot drag things out that much so healing spring and troll unguent becomes obsolete and that leaves you with Heal as One, which has a mightly long cast time that is just begging to be interrupted all the time. not to mention, NOT ONE healing skill on ranger can have its cooldown reduced in ANY way. Not even the spirit one. We are stuck with cooldowns that are far from good compared to the healing output and how these skills scale with healing power.
Ranger also suck against stuns and other forms of hard CC, most builds are lucky if they can fit in two stunbreakers, at best even one stunbreaker isn`t always easy to justify.