Guild Wars 2

Absconditus.6804:

For a profession that already has the highest tier HP, heavy armor, extreme/great damage, extreme distance coverage (making them able to just laugh if they get anywhere near low health as they zip away)—that they also have some of the strongest HP/s in the game is frustrating. They are already strong as-is. Why should Warriors get to have the cake and eat it too? Why aren’t there any gives and takes? My Warrior gets to be good at everything all at once. I don’t like it, and I sure don’t like fighting against it on my other characters.

Except you’re playing the famous 30/30/30/30/30 warrior with 4 weapon sets.
In case you didn’t know in order to have mobility you’re going to give up a lot of CC. Warrior doesn’t have his / her cake and eat it – if you have HS equipped prepare to be destroyed by bursts. But of course nobody mentions that.

Mightymealworm.8409:

Harper.4173:

Regarding HS – it was designed to give sustain to non-bunker type warriors.
The whole complaint here is from people that are encountering the " unkillable bunker wars that are traited for defense and regen" – if you make it heal for 500 if you trait into healing and bunkering prepare for some more backlash.

HS is fine.

I have to disagree with your take on HS intended design. Long term regen has a greater effect on a low damage bunker build vs. one built to kill quickly. Bunker builds need greater sustain or they are ineffective, but should do so at the cost of high damage. Hence, the need for healing power. A glass build should sacrifice sustain for killing power, hence the term ‘glass cannon’. 300 HP’s is still a 50% buff to its original design, and the new mechanic could be used for some serious high risk/reward plays.

Low damage bunker builds with a stronger HS would be the MOST complained thing on these forums if they make the signet scale differently. Think about it – 80% of these threads aren’t about people being killed but rather being UNABLE to kill the HS warriors – because they are running tanky/defensive setups with HS. And bads have bad builds that can’t dps – ergo they’ll spam the forums about " WARRIOR SO OP OMG NO DIE".

A glass warrior WITH healing signet will still melt no problem at all if you’re running a half-decent build and are somewhat aware of what you are doing. GLASS warriors aren’t and were never the problem. It’s the heavy CC/healy warriors that are the problem.

HS was made to do 392 Hp/s in order to give those who don’t want to invest into being a full bunker/ tank an option to have some form of sustain. A warrior that doesn’t back HS up with some other tanky/defensive solutions will find himself on the floor really quickly.

Before HS was buffed warriors were a complete joke in pvp. Because no sustain meant you either went full bunker or tried to do full glass builds that would melt unless you weren’t getting focused. Anything in between wasn’t even an option.

It is the hybrid do everything warriors that people complain about. They already don’t need vitality, current healing signet/adrenal health mechanics remove any need for healing power, so there is another defensive stat ignored. This allows a hybrid warrior to only require a decent amount of toughness for a large amount of sustain that syncs with stuns/blocks/immunity. My proposed reduction or addition of 100 HP per second is rather small in the heat of battle to be honest, but it does at least require some moderate sacrifice to retain the current level of healing. The big change is in the active, because giving a good excuse to use a skill is a well designed skill. I even proposed rather large upgrades to the other healing skills to promote use.

If 100 more HP per second to a warrior who gears for maximum healing power is more feared than one who can trade that stat for more power with only 100 HP per second less, well I’ll be very surprised. In a 60 second fight that equates to an extra 6k health.

Agony.3542:

Kagamiku.9731:

I said weapons, lrn2read.

Doing blast finishers with Banners…is…well…kitten.

Uhm lb#3, warhorn#5, hammer f1?

Whoops, I meant Combo Field. Only LB has a combo field and you cant really complete a combo without the field. Solo, anyways.

redslion.9675:

Harper.4173:

Burst. Poison.
Terrible suggestion.
I’m really tired of seeing these types of threads from people with a l2p issue.

As a warrior in spvp, I’m tired of such simplistic suggestions.

The fact that poison counters signet in a particular way is plain wrong.

The fact that PERMANENT poison might be a counter for warrior because it almost negates the regeneration the class bases its strength on is debatable.

And I’m also dead tired of what this forum has become.

We just debate whether some aspect of warrior is OP or not, without reasoning.

I haven’t seen a discussion about new spvp builds since mace/shield + GS and then hambow were introduced.

This forum has been the first victim of those builds.

The second has been our pride in making the class work. First it made me fall in love with the class, and now strips me away from all the pride playing it.

Tell me about it, I started playing warrior in spvp right after the quickness nerf which was when warrior was at the absolutely worst state, complete utter trash that ranger pets were 2x better than the class itself. I got good at warrior well before any buffs came and can win 1v1s against other classes.
I dun even run “meta” builds and people complain to me saying OP this OP that. I wish they just return warrior to the trash state and get others to kitten off when I outplay them.

Mightymealworm.8409:

It is the hybrid do everything warriors that people complain about. They already don’t need vitality, current healing signet/adrenal health mechanics remove any need for healing power, so there is another defensive stat ignored. This allows a hybrid warrior to only require a decent amount of toughness for a large amount of sustain that syncs with stuns/blocks/immunity. My proposed reduction or addition of 100 HP per second is rather small in the heat of battle to be honest, but it does at least require some moderate sacrifice to retain the current level of healing. The big change is in the active, because giving a good excuse to use a skill is a well designed skill. I even proposed rather large upgrades to the other healing skills to promote use.

If 100 more HP per second to a warrior who gears for maximum healing power is more feared than one who can trade that stat for more power with only 100 HP per second less, well I’ll be very surprised. In a 60 second fight that equates to an extra 6k health.

Warrior healing is fine as it is. The Active on HS is designed to be worse than the passive because the passive sustain comes with a trade-off – and that is a weaker on active heal.
The other heals really don’t have any issue with them – so I don’t really see the need for a rework.
The hybrid do-everything warriors are not the issue here – they can’t really be called an extreme threat since they can’t really do specialized roles and are stuck in roles that other classes perform better.

Forestgreen.7981:

redslion.9675:

Harper.4173:

Burst. Poison.
Terrible suggestion.
I’m really tired of seeing these types of threads from people with a l2p issue.

As a warrior in spvp, I’m tired of such simplistic suggestions.

The fact that poison counters signet in a particular way is plain wrong.

The fact that PERMANENT poison might be a counter for warrior because it almost negates the regeneration the class bases its strength on is debatable.

And I’m also dead tired of what this forum has become.

We just debate whether some aspect of warrior is OP or not, without reasoning.

I haven’t seen a discussion about new spvp builds since mace/shield + GS and then hambow were introduced.

This forum has been the first victim of those builds.

The second has been our pride in making the class work. First it made me fall in love with the class, and now strips me away from all the pride playing it.

Tell me about it, I started playing warrior in spvp right after the quickness nerf which was when warrior was at the absolutely worst state, complete utter trash that ranger pets were 2x better than the class itself. I got good at warrior well before any buffs came and can win 1v1s against other classes.
I dun even run “meta” builds and people complain to me saying OP this OP that. I wish they just return warrior to the trash state and get others to kitten off when I outplay them.

This is a very selfish and narrow attitude : break the class so I can have fun with it again. Why do you even post? There’s nothing constructive or useful about what you’ve said here.

Warrior is not fine. It is not highly polished if it requires a bandaid the size of healing signet to be viable. You can put your blinders on if you wish and pretend nothing is goingto happen to ‘your’ class if you keep ignoring everyone. We have all seen this before though, and you can bet things are going to change. Shaved like necro? Destroyed like ele? Some of us are trying to make reasonable suggestions just in the hope that this class is not obliterated. Disagree with those as you like but please don’t jump on the all is fine bandwagon.

Some of my favorite comments: “people just still expect warriors to be free kills” (might have worked, oh, six months ago?)

“Its a l2p issue, you just need to dodge everything and keep poison up 100% of the time.”

" you need to change your build to counter warriors. All of you."

“Warrior is not OP, all the other classes are just UP”

And to be fair I don’t think wars are all that op, and would love for them to be able to specialize more into particular roles they build for. That is what is at the heart of any of my suggestions.

There wont be another large balance change for a long time. Better get used to warrior in its current form for some time to come.

Which is precisely why all these QQ posts are pointless. Everyone just repeats the same thing over and over and kittens up the warrior forum posters who are actually trying to have a legitimate conversation.

It’s annoying. Go away. Thanks.

HS is really good,especially combined on char like warr,which even in high DPS build can have over 20k hp easily and over 3k armor,with strong utils and very mobile anti kitting builds.
I was playing my toughness engie after some time,and it felt like glass canon compared to my high DPS warr.Warr got simply everything what a sane player could ask,and compared to other classes bit more.

And about activating the healing,i dont remmember,as i wasnt using healing on my warr ages,but it was around 4-4.5k on active?Most healings other chars got are around 4-6k without passive abil.So if it should be nerfed,it doesnt really need higher active heal.It just feels small,cause of high HP pool warr got.

Good luck with proposials like this,you already got some L2p answers,or thief got stealth and ele got water fields answers,gonna be some more of those :-)).Happy forum fighting lads

Change healing signet to 10 seconds Stealth!
so we can stealth hundred blades with 100% crit chance. kitten yea

Hundred backstab blades,should get +50% dmg boost to it,ofc

Grok Krog.9581:

If the passive is to be nerfed then the active must be buffed.

In the case of HS this is simply the truth. The issue is many players lobbying for a nerf do not understand that and many warriors feel that any nerf is unfair. This has been asked for from before the signet was buffed.

KaporHabakuk.6219:

HS is really good,especially combined on char like warr,which even in high DPS build can have over 20k hp easily and over 3k armor,with strong utils and very mobile anti kitting builds.
I was playing my toughness engie after some time,and it felt like glass canon compared to my high DPS warr.Warr got simply everything what a sane player could ask,and compared to other classes bit more.

Dude, if you can’t outbunker point on engi better than on warrior, then I have some bad news for you.

TheGuy.3568:

Grok Krog.9581:

If the passive is to be nerfed then the active must be buffed.

In the case of HS this is simply the truth. The issue is many players lobbying for a nerf do not understand that and many warriors feel that any nerf is unfair. This has been asked for from before the signet was buffed.

I would love some interesting mechanic on using HS, as it would sync well with traits/runes on its super low cool down. There definitely needs to be some reason to use it, and less reason to sit on it. Strong passive play is bad for all classes. 400 HP per second is simply too high for almost no investment. If your opponent deals 1.2k damage per second its like permanent protection. Maybe take passive back to 200 and let active heal for normal amount plus heal 20% damage for the next 5 seconds like the new guardian heal? Or to make it different 10% over 10 seconds.

Mightymealworm.8409:

TheGuy.3568:

Grok Krog.9581:

If the passive is to be nerfed then the active must be buffed.

In the case of HS this is simply the truth. The issue is many players lobbying for a nerf do not understand that and many warriors feel that any nerf is unfair. This has been asked for from before the signet was buffed.

I would love some interesting mechanic on using HS, as it would sync well with traits/runes on its super low cool down. There definitely needs to be some reason to use it, and less reason to sit on it. Strong passive play is bad for all classes. 400 HP per second is simply too high for almost no investment. If your opponent deals 1.2k damage per second its like permanent protection. Maybe take passive back to 200 and let active heal for normal amount plus heal 20% damage for the next 5 seconds like the new guardian heal? Or to make it different 10% over 10 seconds.

IMHO 200 hps is too low. The active heal would have to be a real heal something that could actually save you if used correctly. The heal need not mimic what another class has entirely. I do not know what it should be I do know they would need to up the active heal scaling (to at least .85 healing power) and have the base heal between 5-6k while lowering the passive healing.

If I were to add an effect I would likely have the skill reduce the current cool down of all signets by 25%. It might open the door for more signet heavy builds that use active play. I honestly do not know what would work but I do know over nerfing it would be too much of a blow to the class.

The danger of increasing the base active heal is signet mastery, 5-6k every 16 seconds plus higher healing coefficient and possible rune procs is hugely powerful. Perhaps some of the counter-balance to reducing the passive would be a small bump elsewhere as well? Like a small increase in adrenal health, or regen/protection/vigor added to some other traits or skills?

Why do people even want to do something with Healing signet.
I mean don’t we have other matters?? Bigger matters?
Still stealth is broken.
Still engineers have access too much of everything.
Still petting zoo is ridicolous (pet ranger,minion necro)
Did you guys never seen how much other profession can heal with water field blasting?
They just put down water fields + blast blast blast.
Do warriors have water fields? NO no no no nope.
We need to have something as a heal. We need it.

And also most of the time healing surge is more useful for us.. and we use it more.

Why people keep spend time on the least important / game breaking thing?
Healing signet is fine as it is.

lchan.2169:

I have no idea how people can think HS is OP. It amazes me. When you are going at it, you want to be using a heal skill that when activated gives you highest instant heal. Not some helling that ticks a few hundred a sec. Does kitten in a 5-10 sec fight.

400 healing per second
In a 10 second fight
400 X 10 = 4000 healing ( passively )
= kitten
Passively healing for 4000 in 10 sec is just totally useless, so dudes please stop complaining about our HS

keloorie.6085:

lchan.2169:

I have no idea how people can think HS is OP. It amazes me. When you are going at it, you want to be using a heal skill that when activated gives you highest instant heal. Not some helling that ticks a few hundred a sec. Does kitten in a 5-10 sec fight.

400 healing per second
In a 10 second fight
400 X 10 = 4000 healing ( passively )
= kitten
Passively healing for 4000 in 10 sec is just totally useless, so dudes please stop complaining about our HS

When was the last time a fight lasted ten seconds for you?
I run a zerker staff ele mostly, and even I can’t remember the last time that a fight was that short for me.

P Fun Daddy.1208:

keloorie.6085:

lchan.2169:

I have no idea how people can think HS is OP. It amazes me. When you are going at it, you want to be using a heal skill that when activated gives you highest instant heal. Not some helling that ticks a few hundred a sec. Does kitten in a 5-10 sec fight.

400 healing per second
In a 10 second fight
400 X 10 = 4000 healing ( passively )
= kitten
Passively healing for 4000 in 10 sec is just totally useless, so dudes please stop complaining about our HS

When was the last time a fight lasted ten seconds for you?
I run a zerker staff ele mostly, and even I can’t remember the last time that a fight was that short for me.

But you just still cannot deny that we are having the most useless healing skill comparing to other classes. While guard have a healing skill can cleanse condition passively, engine have the new healing skill make him cannot be dead, mesmer have the healing skill which almost can always enjoy its most effectiveness, not to mention the full condi cleanse healing on necro, They are OP, and the thief can stealth heal, OP as hell
The point is, all of those class except warriors have they special benefits while warrior only have a hammer stun lock, zerker stance and endure pain…. which is obviously not enough to fight other classes

keloorie.6085:

lchan.2169:

I have no idea how people can think HS is OP. It amazes me. When you are going at it, you want to be using a heal skill that when activated gives you highest instant heal. Not some helling that ticks a few hundred a sec. Does kitten in a 5-10 sec fight.

400 healing per second
In a 10 second fight
400 X 10 = 4000 healing ( passively )
= kitten
Passively healing for 4000 in 10 sec is just totally useless, so dudes please stop complaining about our HS

Too bad a 4k uninterruptible heal passively over 10 seconds is actually pretty good if your class isn’t a walking punching bag like a necromancer. Looking at warrior’s damage mitigation, mobility, and cc tells me that’s not the case.

I would trade you signet of resolve for healing signet in a heart beat.

keloorie.6085:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

keloorie.6085:

lchan.2169:

I have no idea how people can think HS is OP. It amazes me. When you are going at it, you want to be using a heal skill that when activated gives you highest instant heal. Not some helling that ticks a few hundred a sec. Does kitten in a 5-10 sec fight.

400 healing per second
In a 10 second fight
400 X 10 = 4000 healing ( passively )
= kitten
Passively healing for 4000 in 10 sec is just totally useless, so dudes please stop complaining about our HS

When was the last time a fight lasted ten seconds for you?
I run a zerker staff ele mostly, and even I can’t remember the last time that a fight was that short for me.

But you just still cannot deny that we are having the most useless healing skill comparing to other classes. While guard have a healing skill can cleanse condition passively, engine have the new healing skill make him cannot be dead, mesmer have the healing skill which almost can always enjoy its most effectiveness, not to mention the full condi cleanse healing on necro, They are OP, and the thief can stealth heal, OP as hell
The point is, all of those class except warriors have they special benefits while warrior only have a hammer stun lock, zerker stance and endure pain…. which is obviously not enough to fight other classes

Warrior-Mending: Clears 3 conditions. Base Heal- 5240 every 20 seconds (10480 health and 6 conditions in 40 seconds)

Guardian-Signet of Resolve: Removes 1 condition every 10 seconds(when not on cool down). Base heal- 8150 every 40 seconds. (4 conditions and 8150 health in 40 seconds, if you wait to use it)

Defiant stance makes you not die for 3 seconds, and can heal you full if timed correctly. Same with engineer skill though I imagine it is a bit easier to time with 5 seconds.

Are you talking about the new mesmer signet heal? The one that heals less often and for lesser amount than Healing signet, and hast stipulations for its effectiveness? I suppose it at least has an interesting active.

Grass is not always greener, and sometimes its just a different shade of green.

Kagamiku.9731:

Oxygen.5918:

Red Raven.7824:

There already is counter play towards healing sig. It’s called poison.

Poison doesn’t counter healing sig in any more way than it counters other healing skills.

In fact, I’d be tempted to argue that it counters healing signet less than other healing skills, because it needs to be kept up constantly to reduce its overall output by 33% while it can only be on for the split second required to receive healing from other healing skills.

You’re wrong.

It counters signet more than other healing skills because whenever poison is on you the healing signet is reduced and thus your HPS becomes reduced as well. Poison does very little to affect other healing skills as long as you pay attention. Because you can cleanse the poison before using the heal. A good player is going to make sure he is able to activate his heal when poison is not on him.

A good player may have to use his heal even if he has poison on him.

There are very few burst heals in the game that cannot be countered by a well-timed poison because most heals have a significant casting period.

The longer you wait between condi cleanses (perhaps you ran out of them), the longer the time between heals and the lower your HPS becomes anyways.

A lucky poison at the right time will completely cut a burst heal by 33%. However, a poison on a warrior with signet will only cut healing by 33% for either the duration of the poison or the amount of time between heals. In, say, a 50 second fight between a warrior and an Ranger using Troll Ungent (though it could apply just as easily to other heals, specifically Ether Feast, Mirror, Glyph of Ele Harmony, sometimes Ether Renewal, any activated healing signet across any class, Heal as One, Elixir H, A.E.D., Med Kit, Healing Turret, all of Warrior’s non-HealSig healing skills, Well of Blood, Shelter in some circumstances, Litany of Wrath, Healing Breeze, Hide in Shadows, and Skelk Venom), you’d hypothetically only need to poison the ranger twice for a maximum of 20 seconds in order to completely reduce the ranger’s healing by 33%. For a warrior, however, you have to spend 100% of the fight with poison on the warrior in order to reduce the warr’s heal by 33%. Even so, if you look at the math, you find that HealSig still heals for 52 HPS more than Troll Ungent does. So basically, if you poison a ranger for the full 20 seconds of his healing in a 50 second battle where he heals twice, the ranger still heals for less than a warrior who has been poisoned for all 50 seconds of the battle. That’s absolutely insane.

It also doesn’t help that warriors have arguably the best condi removal in the game.

Basically, all of your suggestions are either counterable with good play (or even just spammy play), are completely negligible anyways (such as the Ranger vs Warrior example mentioned earlier), will hurt the player trying to use them (often significantly), or are completely unrealistic. As a matter of fact, HealSig is the best counter to poison in the game, simply because of the fact that in order to completely reduce its effectiveness by 33%, you have to keep up poison constantly on a warrior. This isn’t true of any other class in the game.

Combined with the highest base health of any class (except Necro, which has the same base health but wears light armor anyways) in the game and heavy armor (7-14% damage reduction), Healing Signet makes warrior by far the toughest class in the game. Oh, and, by the way, how am I supposed to apply poison to you on, say, my guardian? Even if those poison sigils existed in sPvP, they certainly wouldn’t help to totally reduce warr’s healing. In fact, the effect would be fairly negligible.

Until next time… A video of how OP HealSig is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzmeI22dCWE

Is that video supposed to be some kind of joke?

1st fight 2v2 (lose) You probably would have lost 1v1 too considering the other warrior dropped half your life in two hit!

2nd fight you’re chasing someone with an orb and by the time they reach the point they have 1/3rd their life. Not exactly impressive you killed them at that point.

3rd right – you managed to down a bad necro but he ressed and you proceeded to die shortly after.

4th fight – utterly molested by another warrior 1v1. That healing signet really let you facetank damage considering he killed you in 10 seconds flat.

5th fight…? Downed a necro that had 1/3rd health by the time you got to him.

Are you trolling me? Where in any of that video does it show the OPness of HS.
It shows you being molested in 2v1’s and the only legit 1v1 you had.

Thanks for confirming to me you should not be taken seriously.

Kagamiku.9731:

Is that video supposed to be some kind of joke?

1st fight 2v2 (lose) You probably would have lost 1v1 too considering the other warrior dropped half your life in two hit!

2nd fight you’re chasing someone with an orb and by the time they reach the point they have 1/3rd their life. Not exactly impressive you killed them at that point.

3rd right – you managed to down a bad necro but he ressed and you proceeded to die shortly after.

4th fight – utterly molested by another warrior 1v1. That healing signet really let you facetank damage considering he killed you in 10 seconds flat.

5th fight…? Downed a necro that had 1/3rd health by the time you got to him.

Are you trolling me? Where in any of that video does it show the OPness of HS.
It shows you being molested in 2v1’s and the only legit 1v1 you had.

Thanks for confirming to me you should not be taken seriously.

HS is not even close to OP dude, it doesn’t help any of us in surviving, yeah we survive because we have a nice mobility, but not HS basically that heal is too small which IMO they should really consider about buffing it into a 600HPS

Remember when Heal Sig wasn’t worth slotting? I do.

Seems like some people won’t be happy until warriors are free kills again like they were most of the entire last year.

you guys are funny.
Burst and Poison are counters to any healing skill in the game. period.

1) Burst is weaker against HS, why? Because All calsses except of thieves have breaks between their big bursts. If your healing skill is on cooldown, you can be killed by 2 bursts that have a small break between (like 8-10 sec). But with HS on, you’ll be healed a significant amount during that break, making the burst less effective.

2) Poison is a lot better against burst heals, as you can get the whole 33% healing reduction with only a few seconds of poison. Let’s say you’re in a fight that lasts 30 seconds, you can either have Healing Surge or Healing Signet. Let’s say you’ve been poisoned for 10 seconds during the fight and did not cleanse it at all.

• Healing Signet should heal you for 30×400 = 12000 HP.
  But you’ve been poisoned, so during those 10 seconds you were
  only healed for 10×264 = 2640 hp. So the actual amount healed is a poor 10649 hp (already higher than Healing Surge’s full heal with no poison btw)

• Healing Surge can heal you a maximum amount of 10000 hp during those 30 seconds (1 activation) so, if you waited for the poison to end, you still didn’t heal more than HS, BUT if you healed during the poison (maybe because you had to.. due to burst pressure on you) you would only heal for 6666 hp.

Boom, lawyered.
(healing signet is OP as ****)

And people do realize that you can poison a class for 95% of a fight but unless they have any other sources of healing it wouldn’t matter because they can just use their burst heal in the 5% time they aren’t poisoned.

Where as with Healing Signet even if you poison somebody for a few seconds their healing is reduced.

Arganthium your argument is inherently flawed and rely on faulty assumptions. First of all, talking in such hypothetics that you are talking in is highly improbable and unrealistic. Nobody is going to be "perma-poisoned" in a fight, unless they don’t have half a brain to either carry some sort of condition removal or use it. So your scenario has extremely limited application anywhere throughout this game.

Second of all, you have not considered the flipside of the argument, and it has to do a little bit with what I have talked about earlier in my post. There is about a 15 second window where the Ranger is not affected by poison in terms of healing; discounting any other sources of healing. 25 second cooldown on TU minus 10 second duration on the heal. So if they are poisoned within those 15 seconds, it has no affect on them. Where as with Healing Signet, poison will always reduce healing no matter what because it ticks every second. That is the trade-off.
Assuming 50% uptime on poison

Burst Healing is either negated by 33% or it heals for 100% effectiveness.
Healing Signet’s healing is reduced by let’s say 17% constantly.
Troll Unguent is sort of a middle ground between the two.

It is also very rare (but not impossible) for a Ranger to be poisoned throughout the duration of TU. This requires a poison to last 10 seconds long (or having two poison skills stacking for that amount), a ranger to have no condition removal for those 10 seconds (but they have EB, SoR, Nature’s Renewal, Evasive Purity, etc) not counting condition removal and -condition duration you can get from gear and precise timing of poison. All when accounted for together is very rare like I said.

That is why poison can be somewhat be considered a counter to Healing Signet. Because if you have decent uptime on it, it will effect Healing Signet no matter what and significantly at that. I’d consider it a soft counter however that doesn’t mean poison isn’t effective against a Healing Signet Warrior, in which it is. Constant repeated burst is a better counter to HS.

DanSH.6143:

1) Burst is weaker against HS, why? Because All calsses except of thieves have breaks between their big bursts. If your healing skill is on cooldown, you can be killed by 2 bursts that have a small break between (like 8-10 sec). But with HS on, you’ll be healed a significant amount during that break, making the burst less effective.

Wrong! Burst is a counter to HS because it ticks 392HPS. With any active heal skill, you can restore all of the damage taken. You cant assume your healing skill is on CD as that’s not a fair comparison. If you’re being bursted it’s much better to have a 10k active heal then something that heals for 12k over 30 seconds. Period.

2) Poison is a lot better against burst heals, as you can get the whole 33% healing reduction with only a few seconds of poison. Let’s say you’re in a fight that lasts 30 seconds, you can either have Healing Surge or Healing Signet. Let’s say you’ve been poisoned for 10 seconds during the fight and did not cleanse it at all.

You can argue that poison doesn’t counter HS, but I disagree. It’s easy for me to activate a heal while I’m not poisoned. Poison will always affect Healing Signets passive heal and I cant always keep poison off of me. But I can certainly have it off me right before I’m ready to heal.

Healing Surge can heal you a maximum amount of 10000 hp during those 30 seconds (1 activation) so, if you waited for the poison to end, you still didn’t heal more than HS, BUT if you healed during the poison (maybe because you had to.. due to burst pressure on you) you would only heal for 6666 hp.

Healing Signet is our best healing skill what is your point? For starters, Healing Surges secondary affect is completely worthless and is counter productive to current warrior meta builds. As they generally spam their burst skill to active cleansing ire. Not only does healing surge need to be activated with full adrenaline to be worth a kitten , but it becomes a terrible heal when it’s needed and you don’t have full adrenaline. It might be an alternative to HS if its secondary affect was of some kind of benefit and not the exact opposite of that. And yes, basically every heal in the game has some sort of secondary affect. Healing Signet has none…Hence the higher than normal heal that it provides. But don’t think for a second that I would take HS over an active heal that heals for 12k with no strings attached. I’d even consider healing surge if it had a nice secondary affect. But as it is, HS is the only practical choice. That doesn’t make it OP, however…

How terrible is your build if you can’t out-damage 400 hp/s?

lol warriors want compensation …. a buff for nerv ….. take off the pink glasses, your healing signet will be nerfed near future and you will recieve NOTHING
other classes wont get buffs everytime they get nerfed , its time for you warris to be kicked from the thron

redslion.9675:

*IMHO the real problem is that hammer traits lay on the same line that gives toughness and condi cleanse.

Put the hammer traits somewhere else and things will go differently.*

Yeahh doing that is just going to make hammer stronger because you can then take HAMMER TRAITS WITH DEFENSIVE TRAITS. Where they are now you have to pick between hammer or defensive major traits.

Kagamiku.9731:

Is that video supposed to be some kind of joke?

1st fight 2v2 (lose) You probably would have lost 1v1 too considering the other warrior dropped half your life in two hit!

2nd fight you’re chasing someone with an orb and by the time they reach the point they have 1/3rd their life. Not exactly impressive you killed them at that point.

3rd right – you managed to down a bad necro but he ressed and you proceeded to die shortly after.

4th fight – utterly molested by another warrior 1v1. That healing signet really let you facetank damage considering he killed you in 10 seconds flat.

5th fight…? Downed a necro that had 1/3rd health by the time you got to him.

Are you trolling me? Where in any of that video does it show the OPness of HS.
It shows you being molested in 2v1’s and the only legit 1v1 you had.

Thanks for confirming to me you should not be taken seriously.

LOL I assume you not only didn’t read the description to the video, but you seem to be over-exaggerating and failing to see the bigger picture.

For example, at around 12:45, I have a 1v1 with a Mesmer on Bear. The point is not that I downed the mesmer- that much is obvious and the reason for why it happened isn’t too hard to discern either (he was carrying the orb, at least at first). However, if you watch my health bar, it’s not until the mesmer’s dying breaths (when he knows he’s about to be downed, so he goes all-out) that he actually manages to get me under 20k health. For a class that’s supposed to be warrior’s worst matchup, that seems pretty strange to me.

Of course though, that’s not all. Right after that fight, a necro and a warrior 2v1’d me (before my useless teammate came up to be a rallying point for the other team), and yet I didn’t even get under 50% health before he came along. I facetanked Whirling Blades and 100 Blades and I didn’t even fall under 50% health. Consider that I’m running Zerker’s w/ Soldier’s jewel. On a thief, I would almost certainly have taken lethal damage, but here I was able to shrug it off relatively easily.

The fourth fight, granted, wasn’t nearly as good as I hoped it to be, but you’re still missing the point. I took the entirety of a 100b and didn’t die, which would not happen on any other class save a bunker guardian.

Outside of that, there were many situations where I was able to fight on-point because I was healing for as much as I was. I played effectively (I decapped and capped points, all of my teammates seemed to serve only as rallying tools for the enemy… I saved them from what should’ve been a loss at the very end of the game that I nearly managed to convert to a win), and this is given that this was my third tPvP match with my warrior, which should really be considered the first since my first was a 4v5 (not shown) and my second was a 5v4.

If anything, the only problem I had was condition removal, and that was primarily because I was running Rifle (which is the worst weapon for CI). And yet, that I still managed to facetank as much damage as I did would have been miraculous on just about any class, but was completely normal for my warrior build that ran zerker amulet.

Stop looking at the kills (which seems to be your main fascination across all the forums) and simply look at both my effectiveness in capping/decapping/holding points and my ability to facetank damage. Then got on a thief build and take a direct 100b in its entirety to the face, and then tell me that warrior isn’t OP.

That warrior was running signet of fury. We will never know what his build contained. And you EPd his 100b. The necro didn’t even try.
The mesmer just autoattacked you twice. Considering you got the jump on him like that, he probably just panicked or decided it wasn’t worth it, so just stayed to keep it contested until help arrived.

And Whirlwind Axe has a pretty low dps.

Now I see why you say that kind of build works like a charm… at those ratings, I was unstoppable too with a similar build. You could kill bunkers with bolas and hundred blades (go up a bit and it won’t be that easy).

P.S.: play without Cleansing Ire, ya whimp!XD

I was thinking about nerfing the passive regen by a fair amount (down to something like 300/s but granting extra regen per condition applied to you, making the signet stronger vs heavy conditions (which could help warriors getting away from their cleansing ire addiction) and punish the passive play in shorter fights a lot more.
I still would appreciate a buff on the other healing skills aswell though. Just remember how viable warriors were before the changes to cleansing ire, hs, adrenal health etc.

Agony.3542:

I was thinking about nerfing the passive regen by a fair amount (down to something like 300/s but granting extra regen per condition applied to you, making the signet stronger vs heavy conditions (which could help warriors getting away from their cleansing ire addiction) and punish the passive play in shorter fights a lot more.
I still would appreciate a buff on the other healing skills aswell though. Just remember how viable warriors were before the changes to cleansing ire, hs, adrenal health etc.

I do not agree.
1 – Warrior already have a cleansing heal (and, in addition have Restorative Strength).
2 – Warrior already have one situational heal (Defiant Stance), do not need one more.
3 – Actually, Mesmer signet heals 980 h/s. Is an absurd make warrior signet weaker than Mesmer signet.

Actually, Healing Surge is more useful that Healing Signet.
Healing Signet are good only for some easily unusable builds.

JETWING.2759:

Agony.3542:

I was thinking about nerfing the passive regen by a fair amount (down to something like 300/s but granting extra regen per condition applied to you, making the signet stronger vs heavy conditions (which could help warriors getting away from their cleansing ire addiction) and punish the passive play in shorter fights a lot more.
I still would appreciate a buff on the other healing skills aswell though. Just remember how viable warriors were before the changes to cleansing ire, hs, adrenal health etc.

I do not agree.
1 – Warrior already have a cleansing heal (and, in addition have Restorative Strength).
2 – Warrior already have one situational heal (Defiant Stance), do not need one more.
3 – Actually, Mesmer signet heals 980 h/s. Is an absurd make warrior signet weaker than Mesmer signet.

Actually, Healing Surge is more useful that Healing Signet.
Healing Signet are good only for some easily unusable builds.

Mesmer signet ticks every 3 seconds, so it is equivalent to 327 a second max.

Base the passive healing amount on the distance between your nearest opponent.

100% of current value if you have an enemy under 600 range
75% of current value if you have an enemy under 900 range
50% of current value if you don’t have an enemy within 900 range

warrior’s combat sustain is preserved; running away with a GS and returning shortly after with nearly full health is punished.

Absconditus.6804:

Oh, don’t even go there with comparing it to the Mesmer Signet. Mesmer’s need to have 3 illusions out for any regenerative effect to be active what so ever, that’s three extremely squishy illusions that can be broken by just looking harshly at them, and they still get less HP/s than what Warriors are getting. Mesmer’s also get their HP every 3 seconds (around ~1000), not every second. The active effect is nice, as it does let you create another Phantasm right away, which can be great for burst, but it also heals for a relatively puny ~5.6k with a THIRTY-FIVE second cooldown. At best you can trait it to be a 28s CD on it. That’s an extremely long time to go without any sort of healing.

Also, it’s not so much the Healing Signet alone that is making people angry, it’s the combined effect of the signet WITH the Adrenal Health and Regen. That’s when it starts getting annoying. Not every profession has reliable ways to apply Poison either. Poison doesn’t last forever, but usually for short durations, and it doesn’t stop healing altogether.

For a profession that already has the highest tier HP, heavy armor, extreme/great damage, extreme distance coverage (making them able to just laugh if they get anywhere near low health as they zip away)—that they also have some of the strongest HP/s in the game is frustrating. They are already strong as-is. Why should Warriors get to have the cake and eat it too? Why aren’t there any gives and takes? My Warrior gets to be good at everything all at once. I don’t like it, and I sure don’t like fighting against it on my other characters.

Warrior armor base 363
cloth armor 314
=49 extra toughness

Warrior eviscerate on crit with full burst mastery circa 7k
thief back stab on crit with full crit dmg circa 7k
zerker guardian whirling wrath with full crit dmg circa 6k
zerker engi rifle with crit dmg circa 6.1k

Warrior health pool as full zerker 18k
guardian zerker HP 14k
necro full condi 22k
mesmers zerker 17.8k

mesmer signet “puny 5.6k every 35 seconds with 3 clones”(No investment in healing line)(deceptive evasion cough-cough..don’t make it sound like clones are hard to produce.) Warrior signet 12.3k with no heal on use and no secondary benefit of producing anything with 20 point master trait investment in disciple. See what I did there? I compared apples with oranges. Warrior gets more because they invested more but no secondary use from it..mesmer gets less, but no investment and has strong secondary use. Golly, that kinda sounds like balance. This does not include adrenal healing on warrior or regen on prot for mesmer. This is signet comparison alone. As for those squishy clones..you mean the ones with 5k+ health that if i destroy them i get conditioned or if you destroy them I get damaged..you mean those clones?..those lil’ ol’ mere forgettable things?..those playful shatter and/or PU builds?..yeah, we may as well not even talk about those tiny little aspects. We may as well just think of warrior’s greatsword as a wee butter knife made of plastic.

Just to show you that your dramatization and hyperbole about what we have so much of..49 extra toughness is laughable. Our dmg is easily match by others. Our health pool is only large when we equip it to be so. Anyone can take the power/precision/vitality amulet and divinity runes and have very respectable HP pools that don’t effect their dmg output adversely. So now that you’ve had your moment complaining that another kids piece of candy is bigger than yours..let’s look at the facts as you stated them “Highest HP pool, armor, damage, movement.” We have minute bonuses over others in some regards and are matched by others equally. As for the signet change. Play fractals lvl 28+ with your suggestion and look for that moment when you say, “yep..this is heaps more fair.” Remember your changes would effect EVERY aspect in game,..not just PvP. It costs nothing to think universally over selfishly.

Echoplex.6284:

Base the passive healing amount on the distance between your nearest opponent.

100% of current value if you have an enemy under 600 range
75% of current value if you have an enemy under 900 range
50% of current value if you don’t have an enemy within 900 range

warrior’s combat sustain is preserved; running away with a GS and returning shortly after with nearly full health is punished.

in 4 vs 5 pressure node capture, which opponent am I feeding off?..the one I have on target, or the one I don’t that is standing next to me, but getting cleave?..as the ranger creates 1200 unit space, but their pet is melee range do i still heal. It is an extension of them?..the mesmer at 700 units, or their clones that are in melee range?..the engi at 1200 unit..or their turret I am standing next to?..which enemy distance am I measuring this off?..do i have to stand at 600 units on fire shaman fractal 35 for this to work?..how bout lupi?…please explain how on earth you ever thought this was a good idea? do i get extra healing if I have 5 opponents all standing in 600 units to me that have all been hit by earthshaker? Please explain. I think you may have struck pure gold with this suggestion. Genius. I’d love to code this and can see it being totally fair.

you guys do realise it’s ALOOOOOOOOT easier to play mesmer or necro or even an engi….than the "OP’ warrior…especially zerker-warriors….zerker warriors die about as fast as a thief, and engi’s/necro’s/mesmers…don’t even have to know where there foe is….spam spam spam spam spam those aoe’s fears and clones and or condi’s….warriors take skill…if one class is ez-piecy to play and almost afk murder all other classes….it’s the mesmer

Honestly the simple solution would be to merely make signet passives remain even after activated but weaken them. Signet actives are mostly fairly weak compared to other utilities as the trade-off for the passive effect.

At least with that method there is “always” a reason to push that button.

Other easy method that I can think of is …

- Passive effect reduced to 300 (something around there)
- Signet Mastery Signet passive effects are restored at 50% of the cooldown period.

Oxygen.5918:

Red Raven.7824:

There already is counter play towards healing sig. It’s called poison.

Poison doesn’t counter healing sig in any more way than it counters other healing skills.

In fact, I’d be tempted to argue that it counters healing signet less than other healing skills, because it needs to be kept up constantly to reduce its overall output by 33% while it can only be on for the split second required to receive healing from other healing skills.

You’re wrong.

This is not true, because the entire Heal over time duration of healing signet is equal to one time use of a healing skill. Healing signet needs to tick for 20 seconds to be equal to a one time heal. Thus once that is shut down healing signet becomes significantly worst. A one time heal the poison can be cleared once then the heal can be used. Clearing the poison from healing signet once its already been applied it has already made the healing signet ineffective and if it is reapplied well warriors only have so many cleases.

Vs a one time heal the poisen only needs to be cleared once. I’m sure it makes total since to you that you are right but its more complex than that and what I wrote here is to show you that your right but you are also wrong.

Healing signet healing per second is unaffected by chill and can’t be interrupted. Both of these reduce healing per second of burst heals by a significant amount on average.

As for poison, it is pretty moot against any warrior running cleansing ire anyways.

Absconditus.6804:

For a profession that already has the highest tier HP, heavy armor, extreme/great damage, extreme distance coverage (making them able to just laugh if they get anywhere near low health as they zip away)—that they also have some of the strongest HP/s in the game is frustrating. They are already strong as-is. Why should Warriors get to have the Mango Pie and eat it too? Why aren’t there any gives and takes? My Warrior gets to be good at everything all at once. I don’t like it, and I sure don’t like fighting against it on my other characters.

ftfy

The fact of the matter is that the Warrior is a class that relies on optimal building to be a powerhouse. Before the Warrior got buffed to relevancy, the class was absolute trash for two reasons:

1) ZERO sustain
2) Very little options to break CC

These two things alone sent Warriors to the pits time and time again, and people would literally /laugh at Warriors in any PvP setting. Because of this, Warriors needed to spec in a fashion that worked against their main weakness. Dogged March was introduced, and while it isn’t much in the way of amazing by itself, utilizing your full armor runes with Lyssa, you could remedy the Warrior’s problem against CC at the cost of your full Rune set.

The problem with sustain remained, however. Healing Signet was literally USELESS for the first half of the game. It needed a buff to be viable, and the Warrior really didn’t have too many great options for Healing Skills (outside of HS, they STILL don’t. Who the hell cares if you can regen your Adrenaline when it fills up fast already?). Adrenal Health was added in so that Warriors going down the Defense line had some sustain, and it was INTENDED for HS to work hand and hand with Adrenal Health.

Keep in mind, Warriors sacrifice a decent amount of damage for their current defensive properties everyone loves to moan about. Can I survive and possibly heal the damage I soaked up in a zerg by running away for a bit? Sure. But Healing Signet doesn’t really play into that, since disengaging combat fills your lifebar up in less than 5 seconds. HS does, however, give me a few precious moments INSIDE the zerg, so that I can try to make some difference in the fight with the asinine amount of NO SKILL AoE spam that swallows fights whole. Sorry, but just because you and 4 other Eles decided to each drop a Meteor Shower in the middle of a red blob does NOT mean you are entitled to a bunch of free bags.

NO, now go play and the nerf was deserving. Ahahaha! >:D

Change it so that you gain heal just on hit on HS. Thats my 50 cent.

Dreamer.1952:

Change it so that you gain heal just on hit on HS. Thats my 50 cent.

Fine by me. 100blades spam inside Zergs will make me even more tanky than I already am. That would be a buff for my build.

McFribble.2349:

Dreamer.1952:

Change it so that you gain heal just on hit on HS. Thats my 50 cent.

Fine by me. 100blades spam inside Zergs will make me even more tanky than I already am. That would be a buff for my build.

Not working any more. I used back then Malice + Dagger Storm in Zerg and was healing like a Monk. Somthing got changed on the scaling (was not in patch notes and not announced) so no imba healing anymore.
Also the healing on crit build at Guardian got at the same time the nerf. Just spam Staff skill 1 in Zerg and you healed up in an instant.

Dreamer.1952:

Change it so that you gain heal just on hit on HS. Thats my 50 cent.

If i wanted that i would play theif not warrior.