Guild Wars 2

I run knights armour with zerker weapons and trinkets and I feel reasonably tanky.

however saying that, I plan to go full zerker very soon so I can just kill players before they know whats hit them.

Still trying to find a build that can solo camps in wvw though…

I solo them just fine with this, not even using utilities or heals.

my build can pretty much facetank camps. if there are 2 dolyaks in, need to dodge a bit and use combustive shot.. most important thing when soloing camps – dont stand in the blind field of the scouts.

What are the solo camp builds can someone please link them I’m curious

For WvW there is no such thing as too much armor. I’m sitting on ~3.5k armor on my warrior with about 2.3k toughness, for blob diving! Also 28k hp is nice.

Aiden.6483:

For WvW there is no such thing as too much armor. I’m sitting on ~3.5k armor on my warrior with about 2.3k toughness, for blob diving! Also 28k hp is nice.

can you kill any players 1v1? What weapons are you using. I currently use cav trinkets with Sentinel armor for about ~3550 armor with 23k health but I also have ~80 % crit damage. I’m assuming you are either a condition tank or Shout Healer/banner regen correct me if I am wrong.

you dont build vitality for a healing spec on warrior, so i’m assuming he is ptv.

My warrior has 3,7k armor and 22k hp WITH buffood. I am running with hammer/gs, in zergs with sword/shield and hammer. In both situations, zerg and 1vs1 /1vs2 i survive pretty and can kill them. Sometimes, against bunker or something like that it is a drawn.

I aim for around 2.8k armor. Most of warriors damage mitigation doesn’t come from armor, but from good dodges and utility usage.

peter.9024:

I aim for around 2.8k armor. Most of warriors damage mitigation doesn’t come from armor, but from good dodges and utility usage.

Then why aim for any armor at all?

For wvw zerging and whatnot 3.5 and 3.7k is way too much lol, a waste….

Might sound a bit harsh but too much defensive stats can be used to compensate for the lack of skill…

~3k is the sweetpoint for armor on heavy class.

I run 3k armor with 26k hp and healing signet, shouts, balanced stance, banner.
0/0/20/30/20 with 45% crit chance with fury, 55% crit dmg, big deeps and amazing survivability.

Yaki.9563:

peter.9024:

I aim for around 2.8k armor. Most of warriors damage mitigation doesn’t come from armor, but from good dodges and utility usage.

Then why aim for any armor at all?

Aeh maybe I should rephrase it. The mitigation of key skills comes from the utilities and dodges. There is a lot of random stuff flying around and to a certain extend armor does help. But one shouldn’t rely on armor alone to live, i.e face tanking.

The amount of stats you have available to spend is fixed. Therefore you have to make trade offs in regard to what you see as most important.

I’m running mace shield and my priorities are in the following order:
- base crit chance 44%
- max crit dmg (currently at 90% before food because my build only goes 20 into disc. )

Turns out after these requirements my armor comes to around 2800 with a mix of zerker and cavalier gear.

This is a version of what I run for solo roam. and I utterly smash kids, including other warrs, Skullcrack+100b on me even from a glassy warrior is barely noticeable, given that I have close to 3800 armor.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-s;4NKVO0f4cL-60;9;59T-T;13;0189;125An;56TsW6TsWh-kc0-HXO0;1wV1X6Y9ZH4Ma2i-HV1a;5F2Coc2Cu;9;9;9;9;0k0;3VR-6s

And I have plenty of vids on my youtube showcasing that.

i run solo mostly with a full zerker gear warrior with 0 20 30 0 20 build with gs/hammer

survivabilty is good enough to survive and beat 3 lvl 80 players.. i think for me everything abouve 3k armor is way to much.. i have so much dmg mitgation with gs kiting and hammer stuns that i don tneed that much armor

Yeah without the mobility though in my build I’m forced to stay in the fight, where the extra armor and practicality of being immune to CC is more beneficial
’

why do you want a warrior build which isnt mobile enough for solo roaming?

Because I do just fine w/o mobility?

Theres literally zero death penalty or a bonus t-shirt for getting away from zergs. I came from an MMO that I soloed in for 10 years, got zerged constantly, with massive death penalties, and 15-20mins of rebuffing and boating.

Dying to zergs doesn’t bother me with the 15second return to pvp time.

Im actually at 2885 (with thick skin) and thats completely enough for 1v1, zerks, blobs. I don’t know why anyone would aim for over 2,8k def with current dimishing returns.

Also in general when its comes to massive fights im last man standing, so enjoy ur 3,5k+ armors that means nothing really.

Diminishing returns?

Here is the armor damage reduction formula.

((Armor-1836)/Armor)*100 = DR

1836 is because that is the base value for light armor classes.

For a warrior with 0 toughness you get 2127 armor, thats 13.68 Damage reduction.

Then there is effective health. This means how much damage you have to take before you die.

Health*Armor/1836 = EH

Warriors have 18372 Health

If you receive 0 healing then that means warriors have 21284 EH.

Now lets take my build 3667 Armor with your hammer out, we will ignore thick skin as its only active above 90% health and lets ignore the armor bonus from the shield. We will assume Dolyak Signet is up though.

3,667 Armor and 18,372 Health (no WvW bonuses).

49.93% DR
36,694 EH

Now lets a zerk warrior build which runs only 3,186 armor and 18,372 Health

42.37% DR
31,881 EH

This means that you will take 4,813 more damage to go from 100-0.

Lets assume you live for 2 minutes, signet + Adrenal health is about 530 HPS. Thats 63,600 health (assuming no poison ect) and we will add that to your 18,372 base health.

You
163,720 EH

Me
142,245 EH

So I live 15-25%% longer than someone who runs glass.

Everyone has their playstyles. It’s not the 1v1’s I care about, those are fine, it’s the multiples I like to survive against.

Take a look, its might help ya understand what im talking about.

Ok so it is a FACT that armor caps at 47.95% reduc?

Not to mention Earthshaker has the same Range and practically the same CD as Savage Leap.

It’s enough mobility for me

Furajir.3815:

Ok so it is a FACT that armor caps at 47.95% reduc?

From base armor to 2300 u gains +8% reduction (200 toughness)

From 2300 to 2800 howered thats olny 13% (500 toughness). Noticeable dimishing return

From 2800 to 3500 13% (700 toughness) <The same reduction as above, but 200 toughness more

From 3500 to 4000 +6%. < 500 toughness again, yet olny 6%.

4000 Armor is 54.28%. But whats is our damage? 400 on crit?

We can see easily that the futher we go, the less we gaining from toughness.
2700-2800 is the sweet spot.

Protection alone +33%, thats why someone keep asking for a protection, i don’t have to tell who bc everyone knows him.

Just wish it was cut and dry. Last mmo i played you knew what the stat caps were, and exactly what to had to achieve to get x and y.

Thanks Scoob. Gonna play around with it, if thats the case I can squeeze in more crit chance and power while keeping armor rating high.

Scoobie is displaying data on a logarithmic graph and interpreting the decrease as DR. It has been proven months ago that there are no DR. I typically fail at explaining the math behind these things, so I will direct you to somebody who in my opinion explains it well. http://www.teamquitter.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=30776

In response to the op, the question “how much armor is too much” cannot be answered with set values. So I will say just follow the rules of effective health. For warriors, make sure your health:armor ratio is 10:1 for the most optimal survivability.
http://gw2buildcraft.com/articles/calculator-faq/

Aphix.9846:

~3k is the sweetpoint for armor on heavy class.

No it’s not. You just made that number up. Or pulled it from someone else that made it up and thought it sounded good.

jul.7602:

Scoobie is displaying data on a logarithmic graph and interpreting the decrease as DR. It has been proven months ago that there are no DR. I typically fail at explaining the math behind these things, so I will direct you to somebody who in my opinion explains it well. http://www.teamquitter.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=30776

Actually there is DR. It just isn’t very much.

jul.7602:

Scoobie is displaying data on a logarithmic graph and interpreting the decrease as DR. It has been proven months ago that there are no DR. I typically fail at explaining the math behind these things, so I will direct you to somebody who in my opinion explains it well. http://www.teamquitter.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=30776

In response to the op, the question “how much armor is too much” cannot be answered with set values. So I will say just follow the rules of effective health. For warriors, make sure your health:armor ratio is 10:1 for the most optimal survivability.
http://gw2buildcraft.com/articles/calculator-faq/

The requested topic does not exist.

……

Bad link or something wrong with my pc?
Also the graph actually proves DR.

Scoobaniec.9561:

Furajir.3815:

Ok so it is a FACT that armor caps at 47.95% reduc?

From base armor to 2300 u gains +8% reduction (200 toughness)

From 2300 to 2800 howered thats olny 13% (500 toughness). Noticeable dimishing return

From 2800 to 3500 13% (700 toughness) <The same reduction as above, but 200 toughness more

From 3500 to 4000 +6%. < 500 toughness again, yet olny 6%.

4000 Armor is 54.28%. But whats is our damage? 400 on crit?

We can see easily that the futher we go, the less we gaining from toughness.
2700-2800 is the sweet spot.

Protection alone +33%, thats why someone keep asking for a protection, i don’t have to tell who bc everyone knows him.

Not all % values are the same. Going from 99% to 100% damage reduction is vastly different than going from 0 to 1%. In fact, so vastly different that with that 1% you can take an infinite amount of damage and not go below max health.

You are misunderstanding and misapplying percents.

http://www.teamquitter.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=30776

Direct Qoutes from Xeno: Armor does not have diminishing return

“The previous post suggest every 100 toughness reduces damage taken by approximately 3.4%; ignoring armour ignoring damage sources and healing, this is equivalent to a 3.4% increase in health.
If this is true then +500 toughness will reduce damage by a bit over 18% (1.034 ^ 5 ~= 1.182)

Are you saying this is not correct and that the percentage reduction decreases? I can’t read the OP in the linked thread, but glancing through the rest seems to support my initial though.

In this case, armour increases do not suffer from diminishing returns. Sure, the raw amount of damage negated appears to decrease, but since the rate is constant. In effect, I will always survive 18% longer with +500 toughness, no matter what my initial toughness is. This is the same as in Guild Wars 1, just with more ridiculous numbers.

Vitality on the other hand, rapidly suffers diminishing returns with this perspective. Since the relative increase depends on your starting amount, increases in vitality start off as a tremendous benefit and rapidly decline. After a while, toughness simply wins out and it’s easy to calculate that value.
( X + 1000 ) / X < 1.034 -> X > 29500 (approximately from memory)
The Necro and Warrior start closest to this value and so for them, extra toughness is likely to be more beneficial. The Ele and Guardian have low starting health and are much more likely to benefit from boosting their Vitality (particularly the Guardian, who already has high Defense).

Sure, I’ve ignored conditions and healing, and obviously this’ll have an influence. You’re not going to totally ignore toughness until your health hits 29.5k; I don’t even know if that number is reasonably reachable (Necros and Wars start at ~18k – you’re looking at +10k health, i.e. 1000 vit). Then of course, healing plays to Toughness over Vitality. Toughness only starts looking strong when you’re able to heal a lot."

“34 damage being ignored doesn’t correspond to a reduction factor of 1.034, or a relative health increase of 1.034.
It actually corresponds to a reduction by a factor of 1000/966 ~= 1.0351, say 3.5%
The difference between me and the post above is that I’m dividing by this factor, whereas he’s multiplying by its inverse (which is simply 1-0.034 = 0.966)

I realised this shortly after making my previous post, but wasn’t in a position to alter it.

Vain is completely correct and I made a small (but important) mistake that, whilst actually only changes the outcome slightly, means interpreting it isn’t obvious (since it’s logically contradictory)."

“I calculated (slightly incorrectly) a factor, or more strictly a divisor. You divide by the number I calculate; divide by 1.9 and you notice you’ve reduced the damage down to nearly 50%

Let’s start again:
Assuming the original assertion, that every increase of 100 toughness corresponds to a damage being reduced to 96.6% of what it would be initially.
It would be inconsistent for this to work additively; this statement does not care what you initial toughness is!

Suppose I started at X toughness and took some damage.
I then add 100 and take 96.6% of that damage.
If I add another 100 I would expect to take 96.6% of the damage I took in the step above. If I actually took 93.2% of the damage I took in the first step, the reduction between steps would not be consistent.

Or, perhaps more convincingly, if it was additive:
3.4% multiplied by 30 is over 100% If after +3000 toughness you’re negating 100% of the damage, clearly something has gone very wrong. And of course, what are you adding +3000 to? "

I think you first determine what role you want to play before deciding how much armor you need. I have a Condi/Tank sw-sw/LB build with almost 3.8k armor 1800 condition damage 0-20-20-0-30 for roaming and soloing camps and stuff. Got a hammer/lb build with knights armor cavalier trinkets sitting at 3.5k armor 0-10-30-0-30 for when I we are on the defensive and protecting our towers. My offesive hammer build in full zerg mode is a mix of zerk and knigths armor with zerk/cavalier trinkets and sits at around 2.9k armor. All of my builds are about 20k HP, HP is overrated, with the amount of conditions flying around in wuvwuv and extra 5k will only prolong your life a few secs.

Bacon Please.8407:

Aiden.6483:

For WvW there is no such thing as too much armor. I’m sitting on ~3.5k armor on my warrior with about 2.3k toughness, for blob diving! Also 28k hp is nice.

can you kill any players 1v1? What weapons are you using. I currently use cav trinkets with Sentinel armor for about ~3550 armor with 23k health but I also have ~80 % crit damage. I’m assuming you are either a condition tank or Shout Healer/banner regen correct me if I am wrong.

On my Guardian: 20K health , 3500+ armor, 2300+ toughness, 30 crit/30 crit damage, full PVT armor with about 4 knights accessories the rest PVT.

Do I kill anything? Does 89589 WvW kills answer the question cause I know if the poster you were responding to with the ’are you killing anything" inquiry is even half way decent, he is killing just fine?

Aphix.9846:

For wvw zerging and whatnot 3.5 and 3.7k is way too much lol, a waste….

Might sound a bit harsh but too much defensive stats can be used to compensate for the lack of skill…

~3k is the sweetpoint for armor on heavy class.

I run 3k armor with 26k hp and healing signet, shouts, balanced stance, banner.
0/0/20/30/20 with 45% crit chance with fury, 55% crit dmg, big deeps and amazing survivability.

Why do you think 3,7k is too much?

Rigel.3092:

Bacon Please.8407:

Aiden.6483:

For WvW there is no such thing as too much armor. I’m sitting on ~3.5k armor on my warrior with about 2.3k toughness, for blob diving! Also 28k hp is nice.

can you kill any players 1v1? What weapons are you using. I currently use cav trinkets with Sentinel armor for about ~3550 armor with 23k health but I also have ~80 % crit damage. I’m assuming you are either a condition tank or Shout Healer/banner regen correct me if I am wrong.

On my Guardian: 20K health , 3500+ armor, 2300+ toughness, 30 crit/30 crit damage, full PVT armor with about 4 knights accessories the rest PVT.

Do I kill anything? Does 89589 WvW kills answer the question cause I know if the poster you were responding to with the ’are you killing anything" inquiry is even half way decent, he is killing just fine?

I believe that u killed 89589 players in 1v1..

It’s true that in terms of relative gains, increasing armor does have diminishing returns. The actual change in the raw amount of damage taken decreases by smaller amounts as you gain more armor.

There’s a catch though.

Most people neglect to consider that every other stat that is a straight multiplier or divisor of damage does the same thing. You can graph any stat (Power, Critical Damage, Critical Chance, Condition Damage, Healing Power) and you will find a similar relationship.

For example, let’s look at Critical Damage. The GW2 wiki has this super handy table of multipliers for various combinations of critical chance and critical damage (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Critical_hit).

If you look at any one of those columns or rows, you can draw the same comparison as armor. For example, let’s say you have a 60% crit chance and want to add increasing crit damage.

Between 10% and 15% critical damage, the damage multiplier changes from 1.36 to 1.39. This is a 2.2% difference.

Between 50% and 55% the damage multiplier changes from 1.60 to 1.63. A 1.875% difference.

Between 95% and 100% the damage multiplier changes from 1.87 to 1.90. A 1.604% difference.

While the multipliers keep going up by a set amount, the relative change as you keep going up diminishes. The same thing is true for power, critical chance and condition damage.

So…what does all this actually mean?

It means that there’s nothing inherently more inefficient about going for maximum toughness than maximum anything. The straight-up most efficient way to play the numbers is to have moderate stats across the board.

But playing the game purely by the numbers is difficult because it only works this way if everybody spams auto-attack. In reality individual builds focus more on different elements. Why would you need crit damage on a condition build?

But as far as the thread goes I don’t believe there is such a thing as too much armor. You could also tell a full-up berserker they have too much power or crit chance. Doesn’t stop people from doing it, and it doesn’t stop it from being useful.

I personally believe in maximum damage mitigation because I typically don’t engage in short fights. Since healing from your skills and abilities is a set number of HP, over long fights so long as you can heal more than the damage you take, you’re A-OK. Discussions about stuff like effective HP tend to get tunnel vision because effective HP only matters in the time it takes you to go from full HP to zero. Once you need healing to stay alive then mitigation matters much more.

cbrooksc.9358:

I run knights armour with zerker weapons and trinkets and I feel reasonably tanky.

however saying that, I plan to go full zerker very soon so I can just kill players before they know whats hit them.

Still trying to find a build that can solo camps in wvw though…

short answer depends.
if you going into a condition heavy environment armor will do nothing infact you’d be better off with running a full zerk( high vital would be perfered) however for most things armor tends to rank below power that is lower then the main focus but still very important. that is to say power tends to be the major while toughness is the minor.

other then that obviously best armor ou can get and since you armor is well your armor + toughness this is the best answer you can be given.

Rigel.3092:

Do I kill anything? Does 89589 WvW kills answer the question cause I know if the poster you were responding to with the ’are you killing anything" inquiry is even half way decent, he is killing just fine?

I too can spam 111 and rack up kills in a mindless zerg. I hear the arrow cart build is pretty popular as well.

I would also say that if you are in a roaming group, that much toughness won’t do anything against necromancers and engineers because conditions ignore toughness.

I don’t know why people are equating higher toughness to higher health because with conditions abound toughness is just a cute number on your screen. Heck, you might even die to a thief if he happens to be trolling around with a confusion build. I personally run zerker gear for the sole reason of trying to kill necros and engineers before my precious 8 seconds of heaven are up.

Diminishing returns at 2k toughness/3k armor. So no point in adding much more after that. If you play WvW, you also don’t need 30k vitality (25k+ recommened tho) because you have excellent condi removal with shouts, soldier runes and the warhorn.

cbrooksc.9358:

I run knights armour with zerker weapons and trinkets and I feel reasonably tanky.

however saying that, I plan to go full zerker very soon so I can just kill players before they know whats hit them.

Still trying to find a build that can solo camps in wvw though…

-Full zerker warriors have to kill people exceptionally fast or the chances of losing go up significantly as the fight progresses. A lot of roaming classes can easily dance around you given their tankiness/abuse of certain mechanics (stealth/Lack of boon duration nerf). You will find it impossible to win against someone abusing a sword thief/ staff tanky mesmer/ good necro/ guardian build around boon abuse -same with ele-.

-If you go full zerker you will have to know how to time the dodges/ GS3. You also might have to go AOE (hammer/LB) as it sounds like you are running solo. You will need the AOE to deal with thieves perma teleporting and stealthing. Even then, it isn’t a fair fight if it is someone who can abuse the class and is slightly tanky.

-If you go full zerker, you will 90% of the time die to 2 players -bad/up levels don’t count-.

-You are also at a big disadvantage against similar zerker geared classes that use cheap and broken stealth mechanics.

Having said that, it is more fun and I find myself winning more if I go full zerk 1v1 and winning more 1v2 if I go full cavalier built around AOE+unsuspecting foe.