Guild Wars 2

@Burr: I really wish I could burst like a warrior with the defense needed to survive both conditions and burst.

And just for the record, I play a balanced build, I don’t loose to warriors 1vs1 but I can’t kill a good one either. The prize I pay is to heavily kitten my group-support and dmg overall. Warriors have to do no such thing; their spamable stuns are quite enough support and they have UF along with stuff like DotE (should they opt for that).

What you are saying (that I agree with, for once) is that Warriors drive the meta; you are OK with the direction, I am not. I am saying: Try to look at things from the other side.
I tried playing a warrior both before and after the nerf; while it will never be something I enjoy nor be very good at, I find it has lost all finesse and timing now.

Solo Que is your problem, it’s random and doesn’t favor build’s that require voice/team to make it work.

I personally don’t feel the CC warrior build is OP, I have seen and found builds that can beat them. You just need to ask yourself what’s you team roll.

E.g. Mace/Shield – Greatsword is better at pushing points rather then team fights.
E.g. Hammer – Longbow is better in team fight’s.

Both builds have a weakness just matter of asking a friend who are decent at playing these two builds and finding how you can improve your build to help control or counter.

They are in rather strong place at the moment, but last month it was none stop posts about nerf Spirit Rangers, you got your nerf which didn’t effect the good Spirit Ranger’s, now you move onto the Warrior class. Same old just different month. I hope warrior’s don’t get a single nerf. To there current builds.

BurrTheKing.8571:

These builds do have tradeoffs and weaknesses, but I have only seen a few clever people actually bothering to exploit them.

I beg to have such tradeoffs and weaknesses on my thief like warriors have.
Let’s compare warrior’s and thief’s traits.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unsuspecting_Foe
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Killer
Warrior has adept trait, giving them 50% extra critical strike change to stunned foes. Their stuns are long and easy accessible, not to mention allies may apply them aswell.
Thieves have grandmaster trait, which also gives extra 50% crit chance (since you already sit at 50% or even above) on stealth attack. But there are two interesting things. First of all, it has any use only on dagger main hand (backstab). Sword, pistol and shortbow (doesn’t even have access to stealth) are all together out. Second, since you use only backstab for this, you need to position yourself behind them, and often it’s just not possible. They continue beating on you with auto-attack when you are trying to achieve it.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Merciless_Hammer
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Shots
Both master traits. Comparing them doesn’t require any comments. By the way, even if I used shortbow as my primary weapon, I would never bother picking this trait. Seriously, 5% more damage on a hybrid weapon? It is like 2-3% total damage increase, or like 0.1% if you play condi – as many people who use it as primary weapon do.

But I still think, that buffs to warriors were a good thing. However, there a plenty of trash traits on other classes, entirely blocking them access to inventing other builds. These above were just simple examples.

Poxxia.1547:

@Burr: I really wish I could burst like a warrior with the defense needed to survive both conditions and burst.

And just for the record, I play a balanced build, I don’t loose to warriors 1vs1 but I can’t kill a good one either. The prize I pay is to heavily kitten my group-support and dmg overall. Warriors have to do no such thing; their spamable stuns are quite enough support and they have UF along with stuff like DotE (should they opt for that).

What you are saying (that I agree with, for once) is that Warriors drive the meta; you are OK with the direction, I am not. I am saying: Try to look at things from the other side.
I tried playing a warrior both before and after the nerf; while it will never be something I enjoy nor be very good at, I find it has lost all finesse and timing now.

The problem with looking at it from the other side is that many people on that side are being totally unreasonable with their demands. They basically want to nerf everything from Cleansing ire, Healing Signet, Unsuspecting Foe, Hammer, Mace, and God knows what else. Nerfing Healing Signet in particular will probably just end up with it being once again made into a worthless heal that nobody takes.

People are also talking about Hammer as if it’s the easiest thing to just put it on and suddenly everyone will just die to you. Hammer on Warrior is probably one of the more difficult weapons in the game to use. Miss a Backbreaker and that’s 25 seconds (because you’ll be traited, requiring a 30 point investment in Defense because you want Cleansing Ire as well) until you can try again, and it’s highly telegraphed just like Earthshaker.

Another common issue is that people keep listing off things that these builds, Hammer/LB in particular, can do and they then go and list things that would require way more trait points than what they have access to. An example, someone saying that they can use Runes of Lyssa while stacking large amounts of Might. You can only keep those might stacks up with Runes of Hoelbrak because of the the 20% longer duration. With Lyssa the might you stack doesn’t stick around that long.

I tried to make sure I was very familiar with both the Necro and Spirit builds before I commented on them, it also helped me build the Skullcracker that I posted and got some 13k views or something like that. Many of us saw that ANet wanted Warrior to change the meta via buffing a weaker class rather than nerfing the current meta. Any significant nerfs (which most seem to be advocating) to CC or our sustain will probably leave the class out in the cold once again.

Dagins.5163:

BurrTheKing.8571:

These builds do have tradeoffs and weaknesses, but I have only seen a few clever people actually bothering to exploit them.

I beg to have such tradeoffs and weaknesses on my thief like warriors have.
Let’s compare warrior’s and thief’s traits.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unsuspecting_Foe
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Killer
Warrior has adept trait, giving them 50% extra critical strike change to stunned foes. Their stuns are long and easy accessible, not to mention allies may apply them aswell.
Thieves have grandmaster trait, which also gives extra 50% crit chance (since you already sit at 50% or even above) on stealth attack. But there are two interesting things. First of all, it has any use only on dagger main hand (backstab). Sword, pistol and shortbow (doesn’t even have access to stealth) are all together out. Second, since you use only backstab for this, you need to position yourself behind them, and often it’s just not possible. They continue beating on you with auto-attack when you are trying to achieve it.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Merciless_Hammer
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Shots
Both master traits. Comparing them doesn’t require any comments. By the way, even if I used shortbow as my primary weapon, I would never bother picking this trait. Seriously, 5% more damage on a hybrid weapon? It is like 2-3% total damage increase, or like 0.1% if you play condi – as many people who use it as primary weapon do.

But I still think, that buffs to warriors were a good thing. However, there a plenty of trash traits on other classes, entirely blocking them access to inventing other builds. These above were just simple examples.

You cannot compare one class to another like this, I think you’ve been told this multiple times. You are totally ignoring other factors of the class’s. You can look at two similar skills but they have to be taken into context with the class as a whole, not just compare them directly. And as for Merciless Hammer, it may be a Master trait but it might as well be Grandmaster because it’s unlikely that you will find a Hammer Warrior not using Cleansing Ire as well. You also can’t skip the trait, a 30 second CD Backbreaker? No thanks.

Sound to me like things need to be buffed up, rather than nerfing a class that the Devs seem to feel is in a good spot. Nerfs in general should be avoided unless something is game breaking. It makes a lot more sense to add counters to something that’s strong then to nerf it and risk making it worthless.

@Burr: You have commented on mesmers as well
Hammers are very telegraphed, but that doesn’t mean it can be avoided at all times. The cd on AoE-stun due to the traits involved is making it way to easy to gain adrenalin and use it in a way that benefits all aspects of warriors play. There is no real downside, no choice. True about Backbreaker though, but again, you as class have means to ensure that hit.

I could talk about how mesmers traits are scattered all over the place to make us choose, but I really feel it is a mess rather than a design. I could speak of the compromises rangers or necro’s have to do … or how ele’s are forced into certain choices. It all boils down to this: If all classes get the options warriors have now (which are neat, I grant you that), then Warriors are not going to be an issue.

I personally look forward to a build on my mesmer, where I can cleanse conditions easily (with torch or shatter), my illusions do 30% more dmg, I have access to stealth and boons (PU + torch), get clones on dodge (Deceptive Evasion), remove boons on shatter (shattered concentration), naturally have IP, naturally Mind Wrack does more dmg, and ofc traited pistol and sword. Sounds like a nice build, does it not?

I hope my point is clear .. it isn’t so much about nerfing, but about choices. It isn’t about making warriors miserable … at all.

@BurrTheKing
My point is, warriors are at last fixed, while other classes (a good example is a thief) were left untouched. In my opinion, it was a right decision to buff them here and there, but why we can’t have this for others? All I am suggesting is to fix these garbage traits, and eveything will flow by itself. Some of them are either useless or very weak (this includes even some costly grandmaster traits), no matter in which situation you are. Also, don’t forget utilities – 3 seconds of single target chill on 45 second cooldown… just wow.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ice_Drake_Venom

We will not see the warrior stun meta because Engineers will be buffed to counter warriors in team fights.
There will be no problem with warriors in the future.

I don’t even think warriors are a problem now… Just blind and or poison them and jump in circles around them while they try to spam all their CC.

Stunlock isn’t too hard to counter if you’ve played a warrior before. Knowing when to dodge is key. General anti-melee works aswell, Retaliation/Protection/Confusion work well.

Blind = useless warrior.

sorrow.2364:

Mepheles.2087:

Earthshaker is heavily telegraphed. If you can’t dodge, blame you’re subpar reaction time. As for skullcrack, you can always tell it’s coming when the warrior switches to the mace shield. pommel bash, into shield stun into skullcracker. if you’re not a dummy you’ll break it right after skull crack so that he will have wasted most of the stuns in the rotation. Or grab some defensive food, try melandru runes in a second set. I admit the current stun in 100b is cheesy, but there are more people here crying about it, rather than going out and practicing like alot of other people are and improving.

I guarantee that the meta will still be alive and kicking after sigil of para nerf and the skullcrack nerf, and people will continue to whine, and whine, and whine because they never tried to practice.

NO.
The whine will keep going on until they rightously nerf the cooldown on burst skills or look into Unsuspecting Foe.

True that ES is heavily telegraphed BUT it isn’t only ES the problem. The problem is that you can spam an hell lot of stuns without worrying about cooldowns.

If you manage to dodge ES, then the Warrior will try to hit you with Backbreaker. If he fails, he’ll try with Shield Bash. Then Pommel Bast, then Skull Crack and then he will try ES again since 8s has passed and repeat the chain. Even if you manage to avoid all of the stuns, the warrior will keep spamming them until you are out of endurance and stunbreakers.

Then, if he manage to hit you, he will deal an hell lot of damage while being incredibly tanky.

People don’t need to practice: that has been the battle cry from every OP build this game has seen. It is the warrior that seriously needs to be looked at.
Every people that reroll Warrior “to see how to counter it” don’t reroll back to their profession because Warrior is incredibly easy win. Face with that.

If hes spamming them, then hes getting into a rhythm. break it. Once you break a warriors CC chain hes pretty much done. Warrior is not incredibly easy win, Wish people would stop saying that to cover their own weaknesses. Warriors have them. I see videos from people since the patch concerning the buffs we have and they step all over warriors, even though they are so “Faceroll”. Unsuspecting Foe will probably move up a tier, but no direct nerf will be received. I gave all the ways to beat a warrior. If you would rather cry and say no you’re wrong, then who am I to stop you?

Maybe everyone should just chill.

huehuehue

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

People asked for new builds. they begged for them. Then they emerged in necro, warrior professions are now everyone wants it reverted back.

I seem to be the only one of few that don’t seem to have issue with stunning warriors. When the flavour of the month appeared I went and got my free superior runes of melandru. I switched from power to condition and bought a long a block. After that the cheese was easily. They have to be close to stun, I keep ground targeting on auto, so if I don’t want it to cast at my feet I have to have my mouse position away from me..slowly and surely they walked into every ranger trap, every thief black power, every engi elite turrets and just about all necro marks and wells. There stuns don’t last long enough for them to chain without me getting an evade out.

The issue is too many people have their 2-3 Go To builds that they are comfortable with and know what counters work in bad situations and something relatively new has emerged and they keep doing what they’ve always done and keep getting the same result.

I mean no offense, but maybe time to change your builds, rather than seek to have others change their’s.

You can’t keep them from closing that gap forever. They probably run at you with shield up to block your incoming CC. New builds, sure, but less overall? With my ranger I basically have to run MT and stun breakers just to have a shot. Power ranger with SoS and LR and two stuns (gs #5 and sb #5) don’t even really have a realistic chance at all with the wrong utilities. I mean, it’s just too easy for the warrior. I shouldn’t have to play flawlessly to beat someone else who doesn’t have to play flawlessly. Just my opinion

They are specifically nerfing the stun duration on both mace and hammer next patch.

As mentioned much of the dps occurs during the stun.

Phaeton.9582:

They are specifically nerfing the stun duration on both mace and hammer next patch.

As mentioned much of the dps occurs during the stun.

They’re fixing the Sigil of Paralyzation, big difference.

the bunker wars are worse imo

what about 400 heal per sec with signet without any additional healstats?

seems pretty op non?

RaynStargaze.6510:

what about 400 heal per sec with signet without any additional healstats?

seems pretty op non?

And how much tPvP warrior bunkers you see now? Regen without protection and good bunker utilities means nothing.

Rednik.3809:

RaynStargaze.6510:

what about 400 heal per sec with signet without any additional healstats?

seems pretty op non?

And how much tPvP warrior bunkers you see now? Regen without protection and good bunker utilities means nothing.

Thank you, people seem to think that regen suddenly means Guardian has become obsolete, which is obviously false. Even with the Shout changes that are incoming the regen and heals still won’t make Warriors as good of bunkers as Guardians. Protection, frequent blocks, and invulnerability is what make Guardian good bunkers.

Even with Healing Signet + Banner regen I wouldn’t be able to hold against a group for that long. During a Dev stream they said that they want Warrior sustain to be regen based. Right now I feel like I do less damage than a Thief but have better survival but not as much as a Guardian. Without the CC we wouldn’t be all that useful.

Try running a tanky setup like the Hammer/Longbow build but use GS instead of Hammer. Your DPS will be so low that you’re not really bringing anything useful. Then try taking HamBow and not using Unsuspecting Foe, sure you’ll have CC and be fairly tough but that CC isn’t all that useful once again because you have little to no damage. It’s the full package that makes the Warrior worthwhile, make any part of it too weak and suddenly that usefulness is gone and we’re all back to running GS/LB with Zerker gear and asking ourselves if we’re as useful as a Thief.

Caine.8204:

Blind = useless warrior.

No class with the exception of thief has a blind on cooldown that can keep up with earthshaker and skull crack. With all other classes eventually the warrior will end up stunning you. Dodge needs to regen, stability skills have long cooldowns and so do stun breakers.

If there were blinds on a 7 sec cooldown then we can talk. But this is not the case.

Aza.2105:

Caine.8204:

Blind = useless warrior.

No class with the exception of thief has a blind on cooldown that can keep up with earthshaker and skull crack. With all other classes eventually the warrior will end up stunning you. Dodge needs to regen, stability skills have long cooldowns and so do stun breakers.

If there were blinds on a 7 sec cooldown then we can talk. But this is not the case.

You don’t need it to be on the same CD. If you have Stability and a Blind chances are you can avoid a great number of Earthshakers/Backbreakers, especially if you factor in dodges, teleports, blocks, evades, and protection. The only class that is severely lacking right now is Ele, every other class right now has the ability to combine several of these things, it’s just a matter of using them correctly.

If Mace is giving you a hard time try using one in a duel server for a while. You’ll start to get used to when the Skull Crack will come out. It tends to be around 4-5 seconds because using it before that means they won’t be able to really make use of it considering how low Mace DPS is. I’ve had Mace vs Mace fights where we hardly ever connect with Skull Crack because we both know when they’re coming.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Aza.2105:

Caine.8204:

Blind = useless warrior.

No class with the exception of thief has a blind on cooldown that can keep up with earthshaker and skull crack. With all other classes eventually the warrior will end up stunning you. Dodge needs to regen, stability skills have long cooldowns and so do stun breakers.

If there were blinds on a 7 sec cooldown then we can talk. But this is not the case.

You don’t need it to be on the same CD. If you have Stability and a Blind chances are you can avoid a great number of Earthshakers/Backbreakers, especially if you factor in dodges, teleports, blocks, evades, and protection. The only class that is severely lacking right now is Ele, every other class right now has the ability to combine several of these things, it’s just a matter of using them correctly.

If Mace is giving you a hard time try using one in a duel server for a while. You’ll start to get used to when the Skull Crack will come out. It tends to be around 4-5 seconds because using it before that means they won’t be able to really make use of it considering how low Mace DPS is. I’ve had Mace vs Mace fights where we hardly ever connect with Skull Crack because we both know when they’re coming.

Its unbelievable that you are even trying to justify this. I’m not going to even bother talking with you about it because you will only listen to things that reinforce your idea that stun locking is ok.

Aza.2105:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Aza.2105:

Caine.8204:

Blind = useless warrior.

No class with the exception of thief has a blind on cooldown that can keep up with earthshaker and skull crack. With all other classes eventually the warrior will end up stunning you. Dodge needs to regen, stability skills have long cooldowns and so do stun breakers.

If there were blinds on a 7 sec cooldown then we can talk. But this is not the case.

You don’t need it to be on the same CD. If you have Stability and a Blind chances are you can avoid a great number of Earthshakers/Backbreakers, especially if you factor in dodges, teleports, blocks, evades, and protection. The only class that is severely lacking right now is Ele, every other class right now has the ability to combine several of these things, it’s just a matter of using them correctly.

If Mace is giving you a hard time try using one in a duel server for a while. You’ll start to get used to when the Skull Crack will come out. It tends to be around 4-5 seconds because using it before that means they won’t be able to really make use of it considering how low Mace DPS is. I’ve had Mace vs Mace fights where we hardly ever connect with Skull Crack because we both know when they’re coming.

Its unbelievable that you are even trying to justify this. I’m not going to even bother talking with you about it because you will only listen to things that reinforce your idea that stun locking is ok.

So basically, I’m to take that your refusal to respond as you admitting that you don’t have a strong enough argument to counter me. I’d listen to reasonable arguments, what I’ve seen thus far are comparisons across classes that mean nothing and outright falsehoods about the popular builds in use.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Aza.2105:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Aza.2105:

Caine.8204:

Blind = useless warrior.

No class with the exception of thief has a blind on cooldown that can keep up with earthshaker and skull crack. With all other classes eventually the warrior will end up stunning you. Dodge needs to regen, stability skills have long cooldowns and so do stun breakers.

If there were blinds on a 7 sec cooldown then we can talk. But this is not the case.

You don’t need it to be on the same CD. If you have Stability and a Blind chances are you can avoid a great number of Earthshakers/Backbreakers, especially if you factor in dodges, teleports, blocks, evades, and protection. The only class that is severely lacking right now is Ele, every other class right now has the ability to combine several of these things, it’s just a matter of using them correctly.

If Mace is giving you a hard time try using one in a duel server for a while. You’ll start to get used to when the Skull Crack will come out. It tends to be around 4-5 seconds because using it before that means they won’t be able to really make use of it considering how low Mace DPS is. I’ve had Mace vs Mace fights where we hardly ever connect with Skull Crack because we both know when they’re coming.

Its unbelievable that you are even trying to justify this. I’m not going to even bother talking with you about it because you will only listen to things that reinforce your idea that stun locking is ok.

So basically, I’m to take that your refusal to respond as you admitting that you don’t have a strong enough argument to counter me. I’d listen to reasonable arguments, what I’ve seen thus far are comparisons across classes that mean nothing and outright falsehoods about the popular builds in use.

I’ll flat out tell you the problem, anything perspective someone puts on the table you will negate because it doesn’t justify what you think you know. You aren’t looking for alternative perspectives on the matter, you are looking for someone to agree with you. A reasonable argument in your mind would be facts that suit your agenda. There is no point in trying to speak with anyone when from the beginning they aren’t trying to hear anyone but themselves.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Aza.2105:

Caine.8204:

Blind = useless warrior.

No class with the exception of thief has a blind on cooldown that can keep up with earthshaker and skull crack. With all other classes eventually the warrior will end up stunning you. Dodge needs to regen, stability skills have long cooldowns and so do stun breakers.

If there were blinds on a 7 sec cooldown then we can talk. But this is not the case.

You don’t need it to be on the same CD. If you have Stability and a Blind chances are you can avoid a great number of Earthshakers/Backbreakers, especially if you factor in dodges, teleports, blocks, evades, and protection. The only class that is severely lacking right now is Ele, every other class right now has the ability to combine several of these things, it’s just a matter of using them correctly.

If Mace is giving you a hard time try using one in a duel server for a while. You’ll start to get used to when the Skull Crack will come out. It tends to be around 4-5 seconds because using it before that means they won’t be able to really make use of it considering how low Mace DPS is. I’ve had Mace vs Mace fights where we hardly ever connect with Skull Crack because we both know when they’re coming.

So … basically you use telepathy as an argument? Awesome.

And funny thing: I have access to lots of stability as mesmer? Show me the mesmer-build that counters you so hard, and I guarantee you, that I can argue for it not being OP and highly avoidable. We can all do that. Mesmer-escapes comes with a prize. Imo that is generally the charm about the class: You have to outwit your opponent.

You are extremely patronizing when you are repeatedly saying “used correctly” .. are you aware of that? Are you really aware of the quality of your own arguments? Just wondering
With all due respect I do btw have to agree with Aza a bit, but I don’t consider you to be entirely a waste of time.

Here is the deal what I am talking about is when there are 2 warriors on both sides in solo q, which is a very frequent occurance, its ludicrous the ammount stun spam and awkward combat. That can’t be A-nets vision for the game. Why can’t classes be fixed without adding cheese. Every pvp MMORPG I have ever played that took pvp seriously chain cc builds have always been nerfed. Being able to basically loop a certain form of cc over and over again one target is just bad game design imo. Especially in a game with no diminshing returns on cc. It makes stun breaks worthless also.

Kwll.1468:

Here is the deal what I am talking about is when there are 2 warriors on both sides in solo q, which is a very frequent occurance, its ludicrous the ammount stun spam and awkward combat. That can’t be A-nets vision for the game. Why can’t classes be fixed without adding cheese. Every pvp MMORPG I have ever played that took pvp seriously chain cc builds have always been nerfed. Being able to basically loop a certain form of cc over and over again is bad game design. The end.

agreed. u see the small version of whatu see in wvw. in wvw there is entire zergs containing 90 percent stunlock warriors, then guardians and necros, nothing eles. its a mass cc spam all at the same time and if u get hit by 1 of them u melt without even having a chance to clock or react.im sure this is not what anet intended.

selan.8354:

Kwll.1468:

Here is the deal what I am talking about is when there are 2 warriors on both sides in solo q, which is a very frequent occurance, its ludicrous the ammount stun spam and awkward combat. That can’t be A-nets vision for the game. Why can’t classes be fixed without adding cheese. Every pvp MMORPG I have ever played that took pvp seriously chain cc builds have always been nerfed. Being able to basically loop a certain form of cc over and over again is bad game design. The end.

agreed. u see the small version of whatu see in wvw. in wvw there is entire zergs containing 90 percent stunlock warriors, then guardians and necros, nothing eles. its a mass cc spam all at the same time and if u get hit by 1 of them u melt without even having a chance to clock or react.im sure this is not what anet intended.

The people trying to defend this are using very narrow situations of one warrior scenarios. Unfortunately that is not how it works. Once something becomes fotm the flood gates open. There are like a 1 billion warriors running around with cc heavy builds right now. Sure I can deal with one warrior generally. But its almost never just one. I am not even asking for them to take this away tommorrow without compensation or anything like that. Just find a just way to nerf it and when you do add some other compensation at the same time.

Poxxia.1547:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Aza.2105:

Caine.8204:

Blind = useless warrior.

No class with the exception of thief has a blind on cooldown that can keep up with earthshaker and skull crack. With all other classes eventually the warrior will end up stunning you. Dodge needs to regen, stability skills have long cooldowns and so do stun breakers.

If there were blinds on a 7 sec cooldown then we can talk. But this is not the case.

You don’t need it to be on the same CD. If you have Stability and a Blind chances are you can avoid a great number of Earthshakers/Backbreakers, especially if you factor in dodges, teleports, blocks, evades, and protection. The only class that is severely lacking right now is Ele, every other class right now has the ability to combine several of these things, it’s just a matter of using them correctly.

If Mace is giving you a hard time try using one in a duel server for a while. You’ll start to get used to when the Skull Crack will come out. It tends to be around 4-5 seconds because using it before that means they won’t be able to really make use of it considering how low Mace DPS is. I’ve had Mace vs Mace fights where we hardly ever connect with Skull Crack because we both know when they’re coming.

So … basically you use telepathy as an argument? Awesome.

Thieves and mesmers use that argument many times. And they think its a valid one.

There are a million things ruining soloQ.
Congrats, you found 1.

This is what PvP needs!

We need these warriors to counter the condition meta.

2 Hammer + Mace/Sheild Warriors paired with a Pure of Voice + Soldier Rune Guardian – this will reck any condi setup.

MIrra.3604:

This is what PvP needs!

We need these warriors to counter the condition meta.

2 Hammer + Mace/Sheild Warriors paired with a Pure of Voice + Soldier Rune Guardian – this will reck any condi setup.

I don’t think you realize what you are saying.
CC’locks are less entertaining to play and play against than conditions.

The reason the ‘condi meta’ was so hated was because it was dull as kitten to play with and play against…
Your saying the fix to that should be worse than the problem…
What.
The.
kitten.

Get a job at Anet you fool, I’m sure you’d fit right in.

Rednik.3809:

RaynStargaze.6510:

what about 400 heal per sec with signet without any additional healstats?

seems pretty op non?

And how much tPvP warrior bunkers you see now? Regen without protection and good bunker utilities means nothing.

Its not about bunker at all on the contrary – healing doesnt even benefit it thaaaat much but just HAVING 400 heal (without adding heal gear or anything) is strong in any build

garethh.3518:

MIrra.3604:

This is what PvP needs!

We need these warriors to counter the condition meta.

2 Hammer + Mace/Sheild Warriors paired with a Pure of Voice + Soldier Rune Guardian – this will reck any condi setup.

I don’t think you realize what you are saying.
CC’locks are less entertaining to play and play against than conditions.

The reason the ‘condi meta’ was so hated was because it was dull as kitten to play with and play against…
Your saying the fix to that should be worse than the problem…
What.
The.
kitten.

Get a job at Anet you fool, I’m sure you’d fit right in.

Why would I or people who play “condi meta” give a kitten if it is boring to play? You play to win and you bring the build/setup to win. It doesn’t matter if it a 1 shot cheese spec or a passive build or a CC locked hammer train- whatever it takes to win (within the rules of course).

If I wanted a game that relied on skill, I wouldn’t be playing GW2 because this game is so easy mode. Heck, the system isn’t even built to support competitive play i.e. why can’t I pick which condition gets removed first?

So in the end, you’re the fool for thinking this game will be anything other than easy cheese mode.

MIrra.3604:

garethh.3518:

MIrra.3604:

This is what PvP needs!

We need these warriors to counter the condition meta.

2 Hammer + Mace/Sheild Warriors paired with a Pure of Voice + Soldier Rune Guardian – this will reck any condi setup.

I don’t think you realize what you are saying.
CC’locks are less entertaining to play and play against than conditions.

The reason the ‘condi meta’ was so hated was because it was dull as kitten to play with and play against…
Your saying the fix to that should be worse than the problem…
What.
The.
kitten.

Get a job at Anet you fool, I’m sure you’d fit right in.

Why would I or people who play “condi meta” give a kitten if it is boring to play? You play to win and you bring the build/setup to win. It doesn’t matter if it a 1 shot cheese spec or a passive build or a CC locked hammer train- whatever it takes to win (within the rules of course).

If I wanted a game that relied on skill, I wouldn’t be playing GW2 because this game is so easy mode. Heck, the system isn’t even built to support competitive play i.e. why can’t I pick which condition gets removed first?

So in the end, you’re the fool for thinking this game will be anything other than easy cheese mode.

Again, I don’t think you understand.
“I’m sure you’d fit right in [with Anet]”.
No that doesn’t mean, I think Anet is going to give GW2 super skilled gameplay.
No it doesn’t mean that I think GW2 will be some super competitive Esports beast.

It means your idea is obviously trash and will only make the game even less playable.
Not competitive.
Less entertaining to play.

Like next to every idea from Anet.

If all you wanted was to win, counter-meta wouldn’t matter.
If anything it would be bad because you would be playing the peak of the current meta, so smashing most people with it…. having hard counters to the top tier kitten is only asking to lose…

garethh.3518:

MIrra.3604:

garethh.3518:

MIrra.3604:

This is what PvP needs!

We need these warriors to counter the condition meta.

2 Hammer + Mace/Sheild Warriors paired with a Pure of Voice + Soldier Rune Guardian – this will reck any condi setup.

I don’t think you realize what you are saying.
CC’locks are less entertaining to play and play against than conditions.

The reason the ‘condi meta’ was so hated was because it was dull as kitten to play with and play against…
Your saying the fix to that should be worse than the problem…
What.
The.
kitten.

Get a job at Anet you fool, I’m sure you’d fit right in.

Why would I or people who play “condi meta” give a kitten if it is boring to play? You play to win and you bring the build/setup to win. It doesn’t matter if it a 1 shot cheese spec or a passive build or a CC locked hammer train- whatever it takes to win (within the rules of course).

If I wanted a game that relied on skill, I wouldn’t be playing GW2 because this game is so easy mode. Heck, the system isn’t even built to support competitive play i.e. why can’t I pick which condition gets removed first?

So in the end, you’re the fool for thinking this game will be anything other than easy cheese mode.

Again, I don’t think you understand.
“I’m sure you’d fit right in [with Anet]”.
No that doesn’t mean, I think Anet is going to give GW2 super skilled gameplay.
No it doesn’t mean that I think GW2 will be some super competitive Esports beast.

It means your idea is obviously trash and will only make the game even less playable.
Not competitive.
Less entertaining to play.

Like next to every idea from Anet.

If all you wanted was to win, counter-meta wouldn’t matter.
If anything it would be bad because you would be playing the peak of the current meta, so smashing most people with it…. having hard counters to the top tier kitten is only asking to lose…

Hm…maybe. So you’re saying I should stick with condi if I want an easy mode win?

Kwll.1468:

selan.8354:

Kwll.1468:

Here is the deal what I am talking about is when there are 2 warriors on both sides in solo q, which is a very frequent occurance, its ludicrous the ammount stun spam and awkward combat. That can’t be A-nets vision for the game. Why can’t classes be fixed without adding cheese. Every pvp MMORPG I have ever played that took pvp seriously chain cc builds have always been nerfed. Being able to basically loop a certain form of cc over and over again is bad game design. The end.

agreed. u see the small version of whatu see in wvw. in wvw there is entire zergs containing 90 percent stunlock warriors, then guardians and necros, nothing eles. its a mass cc spam all at the same time and if u get hit by 1 of them u melt without even having a chance to clock or react.im sure this is not what anet intended.

The people trying to defend this are using very narrow situations of one warrior scenarios. Unfortunately that is not how it works. Once something becomes fotm the flood gates open. There are like a 1 billion warriors running around with cc heavy builds right now. Sure I can deal with one warrior generally. But its almost never just one. I am not even asking for them to take this away tommorrow without compensation or anything like that. Just find a just way to nerf it and when you do add some other compensation at the same time.

This is pretty true imo. It’s not just that warrior is strong, it’s that it’s popular and stunlocks are very frustrating to play against.

Warrior is teetering on the edge between uselessness and opness though; any changes need to be done carefully, and if stuns are nerfed, it probably needs compensation.

Poxxia.1547:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Aza.2105:

Caine.8204:

Blind = useless warrior.

No class with the exception of thief has a blind on cooldown that can keep up with earthshaker and skull crack. With all other classes eventually the warrior will end up stunning you. Dodge needs to regen, stability skills have long cooldowns and so do stun breakers.

If there were blinds on a 7 sec cooldown then we can talk. But this is not the case.

You don’t need it to be on the same CD. If you have Stability and a Blind chances are you can avoid a great number of Earthshakers/Backbreakers, especially if you factor in dodges, teleports, blocks, evades, and protection. The only class that is severely lacking right now is Ele, every other class right now has the ability to combine several of these things, it’s just a matter of using them correctly.

If Mace is giving you a hard time try using one in a duel server for a while. You’ll start to get used to when the Skull Crack will come out. It tends to be around 4-5 seconds because using it before that means they won’t be able to really make use of it considering how low Mace DPS is. I’ve had Mace vs Mace fights where we hardly ever connect with Skull Crack because we both know when they’re coming.

So … basically you use telepathy as an argument? Awesome.

And funny thing: I have access to lots of stability as mesmer? Show me the mesmer-build that counters you so hard, and I guarantee you, that I can argue for it not being OP and highly avoidable. We can all do that. Mesmer-escapes comes with a prize. Imo that is generally the charm about the class: You have to outwit your opponent.

You are extremely patronizing when you are repeatedly saying “used correctly” .. are you aware of that? Are you really aware of the quality of your own arguments? Just wondering
With all due respect I do btw have to agree with Aza a bit, but I don’t consider you to be entirely a waste of time.

It’s not telepathy, the greatest weakness of Hammer and Mace is that they are very, very predicable. It’s unlikely that a Mace user is going to use Skull Crack right after switching to it because they won’t actually get all that much damage out of it, the auto attack is very slow and the other skills are reactionary.

Mesmer doesn’t have stability, but that’s because of all the other counters they have, as mentioned in my post.

Just glancing at the Mesmer forum this caught my eye. That’s a good example of a build that would probably beat the popular Warrior builds fairly frequently. I never claimed that Mesmers were OP, just that similar to GW1 they excel at beating Warriors. That build doesn’t look perfect but the framework is all there. The Mesmer forum in general looks a lot more positive discussion than many of the other class forums. I see that many of the build threads are discussing countering Warriors.

The “when used correctly” is there because I see many players that have the right tools on their build but don’t use them correctly. They use their blinds and blocks at random times rather than waiting for the Earthshaker, or they use their stun break on Shield Bash rather than Skull Crack.

Most of the discussion on here recently just want stuns to be removed from viability. It isn’t about “balancing” but trying to get ANet to knee-jerk nerf something that after a year has finally become worth using. People seem to want to be able to run the same builds they always have rather than having to change things up.

Our builds focus heavily on pure condition builds. Healing Signet is good because many of these builds take no stun break/stability so while they are stunned we are regening. All their damage comes from conditions, and because we are removing them frequently then of course our healing will be good, they aren’t dealing that much damage. A power thief with a bit of poison can assassinate me very quickly in a team fight because their damage is all power based and the poison negates our healing during the spike.

Warrior is apparently becoming the Winston Churchill of GW2. Everyone wanted the condition meta to die out, ANet says “here take this Warrior.” The Warriors come through and smash the condition meta into the dirt, literally. Now the war on conditions is coming to a close the class that led people in war is now being forced out now that its job is done.

If we are to have our stuns/regen nerfed then something needs to be given in return otherwise it’ll become worthless again.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Merged-Stun-warrior-meta/page/8#post2893673

There is already a thread here about this subject.

Sigil of Paralization is getting fixed, which will lower this builds effectiveness by 1/3, which is quite big.

I don’t see the need to make any more threads for it. You haven’t even tested it after the fix.

Daecollo.9578:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Merged-Stun-warrior-meta/page/8#post2893673

There is already a thread here about this subject.

Sigil of Paralization is getting fixed, which will lower this builds effectiveness by 1/3, which is quite big.

No it won’t. The sheer number of CCs will still mean that healing signet can keep chugging away and that your opponent will be trying harder to avoid your CC than damage you.

Daecollo.9578:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Merged-Stun-warrior-meta/page/8#post2893673

There is already a thread here about this subject.

Sigil of Paralization is getting fixed, which will lower this builds effectiveness by 1/3, which is quite big.

For once I somewhat agree, I always thought it was odd that they never fixed the sigil.

Hammer builds will lose a lot of DPS because currently my combo is:
Earthshaker —> Fierce Blow --> Backbreaker —> Staggering Blow

…but with the Sigil fix I’ll have to go right to Backbreaker, which means it’s much less likely that Fierce Blow will crit.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Daecollo.9578:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Merged-Stun-warrior-meta/page/8#post2893673

There is already a thread here about this subject.

Sigil of Paralization is getting fixed, which will lower this builds effectiveness by 1/3, which is quite big.

For once I agree, I always thought it was odd that they never fixed the sigil.

Hammer builds will lose a lot of DPS because currently my combo is:
Earthshaker —> Fierce Blow --> Backbreaker —> Staggering Blow

…but with the Sigil fix I’ll have to go right to Backbreaker, which means it’s much less likely that Fierce Blow will crit.

When Sigil of Paralization gets fixed.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil_of_Impact will be nerfed by 50%.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unsuspecting_Foe will be nerfed by 40%.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shield_Bash will be nerfed by 50%.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Earthshaker will be nerfed by 40%.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skull_Crack will be nerfed by 33%.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirling_Strike will be nerfed by 40%.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Melandru will be buffed by 33%.

Backbreaker and Staggering Blow were never stuns, so it never gave you any critical chance. However they are fixing it so the Sigil does not work with these as well.

I’m pretty sure this is the most merged thread of all time for GW2.

Merges ftw

What people want:

Warrior
Nerf Damage
Nerf Stuns and Crowd Control
Nerf Healing by a lot.
Nerf Damage Soaking Tools

((They want to make us how we were prebuffs. Lol.))

I think they just want to nerf the stuns, it’s ridiculous at the moment and warriors who are defending want to keep it as easy as possible. The stunning is the issue and the access to it. It shouldn’t be that only one class in the entire game (maybe 2 if you cant a perma blind thief) is able to go toe to toe with this class. It is ALL stuns, the whole mesmer build that Burr linked is based around mitigating the stun because the lockdown is huge. You guys got your damage, you got your heals, you got your damage soaking tools, but the stun access is just over the top, anybody defending that is just selfish.

If that’s the case then let’s simply slot every class with teleports/3 stun breaks that are useful and not just kitten utilities that happen to also be stun breaks (ranger is a good example of this btw), stealth and blinds/aegis on a smooth rotation – to the warriors defending the current state of them, do you think that would be fine?

Linking to one mesmer build, which mesmers have been known to dominate warrior before and after these patches isn’t anything new, they have the most overpowered and useful utiltiies latched to stun breaks in the game next to thieves.

Sorry, the stunning is ridiculous in PvP AND WvW.

Ryan.8367:

I think they just want to nerf the stuns, it’s ridiculous at the moment and warriors who are defending want to keep it as easy as possible. The stunning is the issue and the access to it. It shouldn’t be that only one class in the entire game (maybe 2 if you cant a perma blind thief) is able to go toe to toe with this class. It is ALL stuns, the whole mesmer build that Burr linked is based around mitigating the stun because the lockdown is huge. You guys got your damage, you got your heals, you got your damage soaking tools, but the stun access is just over the top, anybody defending that is just selfish.

If that’s the case then let’s simply slot every class with teleports/3 stun breaks that are useful and not just kitten utilities that happen to also be stun breaks (ranger is a good example of this btw), stealth and blinds/aegis on a smooth rotation – to the warriors defending the current state of them, do you think that would be fine?

Linking to one mesmer build, which mesmers have been known to dominate warrior before and after these patches isn’t anything new, they have the most overpowered and useful utiltiies latched to stun breaks in the game next to thieves.

Sorry, the stunning is ridiculous in PvP AND WvW.

Yes, its getting nerfed. Which will also reduce our ability to critical greatly which is also a big damage nerf.

However the problem is, people want to also nerf our healing (even though we are vulnerable to poisons because we have no passive condition removal.) also nerf our ability to escape and our only way to absorb damage.

I’m not even sure we could call it nerfs so much as they’re fixing a long standing issue. It’ll hurt us but hopefully will quell some of the complaints.

Probably not though…

BurrTheKing.8571:

I’m not even sure we could call it nerfs so much as they’re fixing a long standing issue. It’ll hurt us but hopefully will quell some of the complaints.

Probably not though…

It will bring us back prepatch. Lol.

Then they will have to buff us again.